GAA Ace arrested for being AWOL British soldier

cruasder777

Obviously not the brightest spark deserting then returning to Britain for a stag do.

Lets hope he enjoys his stay in Colchester military corrective centre.


http://www.independent.ie/sport/gaelic-football/gaa-ace-on-uk-stag-trip-told-by-police-he-was-an-awol-british-soldier-30154308.html


A Gaelic footballer is to face a hearing before British Army officers to explain why he went absent without leave (AWOL) from the British Army 10 years ago.

cruasder777

This is where hes highly likely going on holiday.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NotqDCjQQ3U


Hes lucky this law was not passed.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk_politics/5006638.stm

Proposals for British soldiers to get life sentences for desertion have been criticised as "inhuman and barbaric".

Jawgap

That law, even it had been passed, would not have applied.

There's a qualitative difference between being absent without leave and desertion.

cruasder777

Jawgap wrote: »

That law, even it had been passed, would not have applied.

There's a qualitative difference between being absent without leave and desertion.

Not sure, hes unit could have been going to Iraq or Afghanistan 10 years ago.


Quote The bill was "really about the war in Iraq", he added, saying the number of "abscondees" in the military had trebled since the invasion. Unquote

tac foley

QUOTE - "He joined the army when he was 18 and paid his way out and now because of some paperwork technicality he's paying the price," Mr Culloty said. END QUOTE

IF he did in fact buy his way out, then he is completely in the clear. However, if he did not, then he is actually absent without leave. If this absence 'just happens' to be contemporary with a deployment on active service in a war zone, then the gentleman is in a world of nastiness.

HE signed up for whatever happens - that's why it is called the Armed SERVICE, and not the Armed Option-that-if-you-don't-want-to-go somewhere-nasty-you-can-go-home-to-your-mammy-instead.

It will be very interesting to see how this pans out, but whateve else happens, you'll recall that we managed pretty well without his help.

tac, totally unsympathetic.

cruasder777

Queens regulations state there are options for premature voluntary release on payment, he would have been interviewed by his CO. He would also have been issued with discharge papers.

His mixed up paperwork story sounds like rubbish.

Manach

Perhaps Mr Shatter could issue a pardon (even if in UK), as he seems to be fond of those.

Jawgap

Manach wrote: »

Perhaps Mr Shatter could issue a pardon (even if in UK), as he seems to be fond of those.

I doubt he'd qualify given he didn't participate in the defeat of the Third Reich....

delta-boy

Before you know the ins and outs of it I'd say nothing... Strangely enough I met the bloke in question while I was on guard last week haha, he came up in a suit and asked where the court room was hahahahahaah

tac foley

Re post #1 - he was in the British Army, but he was NOT a British soldier. He retained his Irish nationality throughout the duration of his service.

tac

time lord

Off topic I know but just doing a house clearance tonight and found an old restricted army book with every member of the Irish Army that deserted during the 'Emergency', every name, rank, unit and serial no. I didn't count them but its a fairly thick book. Literally half an hour ago!

discus

delta-boy wrote: »

Before you know the ins and outs of it I'd say nothing... Strangely enough I met the bloke in question while I was on guard last week haha, he came up in a suit and asked where the court room was hahahahahaah

You have to do guard? No mpgs? Stinger!

Morpheus

really?

any chance you can get info on a name for me?!

is this it?
http://books.national-army-museum.ac.uk/list-of-personnel-of-the-irish-defence-forces-dismissed-for-des-pr-31799.html

A secret list of 5,000 Irish soldiers dismissed for deserting and joining the British Forces during the Second World War.
It may not be widely known but a large number of Irish soldiers deserted their own army during WWII (Eire remained neutral) and crossed the sea to join the British army. Once the war was over these men were officially dismissed the service and their names published in this confidential document. The formal title of the document is “List of personnel of the Defence Forces dismissed for desertion in time of National Emergency pursuant to the terms of Emergency Powers (No 362) Order 1945 (S.R. & O. 1945 No 198) or Section 13 of the Defence Forces (Temporary Provisions) Act, 1946 (No 7/1946).” In it are listed, in alphabetical order, some 5,000 or more names with Army No, last recorded address, date of birth, declared occupation prior to enlistment in Defence Forces, and date of dismissal from Defence Forces. In the latter case the date is amost invariably 8 August 1945. This document was circulated to all civil service departments and state run services, e.g post office, health service, state owned bus , rail, air and shipping companies etc. This was obviously intended to bar them from any form of government employment. It is a fascinating document and one which I have never been aware of before. It would be interesting, with the Naval and Military Press CD of Soldiers Died in WWII, to see how many of them were kiled or died in the war. The number of desertions is surprisingly large for a small army, but it must be an indication of the strength of feeling at the time.

roundymac

cruasder777 wrote: »

Queens regulations state there are options for premature voluntary release on payment, he would have been interviewed by his CO. He would also have been issued with discharge papers.

His mixed up paperwork story sounds like rubbish.

Maybe his cheque bounced.:D

tac foley

roundymac wrote: »

Maybe his cheque bounced.:D

That, too, is an offence under the Army Act.

Anything that would get you in the doo-doo as a civilian gets you FAR more trouble in the in the British Armed Forces.

1. Committing a civil offence.

2. Committing a civil offence whilst being a member of H M Forces.

3. Committing a civil offence is, in itself, an offence in the British Armed Forces.

4. Committing the military offence of bringing the Armed forces into disrepute.

5. P!ssing off the others in the British Armed Forces by items 1 through 4 - Conduct Prejudicial to the maintenance of good order and military discipline - good ol' Section 69 of the AA.

In any case, intentionally absenting yourself from duty when warned for operational duty has a special name reserved for those who take such action -

Cowardice in the face of the enemy.

The British Army stopped executing its soldiers in 1928, BTW, but sliding off home to the Emerald Isle when things are about to get sharp and pointy for your mates won't win him any friends and supporters.

tac, waiting for the boot to drop.

time lord

Morpheus wrote: »

really?

any chance you can get info on a name for me?!

is this it?
http://books.national-army-museum.ac.uk/list-of-personnel-of-the-irish-defence-forces-dismissed-for-des-pr-31799.html

Yes that's it. Ah common as muck thought I had a find. It runs alphabetically so surnames are the quickest way of checking. I was checking out all the family names last night, no adventurers found yet.

Jawgap

tac foley wrote: »

That, too, is an offence under the Army Act.

Anything that would get you in the doo-doo as a civilian gets you FAR more trouble in the in the British Armed Forces.

1. Committing a civil offence.

2. Committing a civil offence whilst being a member of H M Forces.

3. Committing a civil offence is, in itself, an offence in the British Armed Forces.

4. Committing the military offence of bringing the Armed forces into disrepute.

5. P!ssing off the others in the British Armed Forces by items 1 through 4 - Conduct Prejudicial to the maintenance of good order and military discipline - good ol' Section 69 of the AA.

In any case, intentionally absenting yourself from duty when warned for operational duty has a special name reserved for those who take such action -

Cowardice in the face of the enemy.

The British Army stopped executing its soldiers in 1928, BTW, but sliding off home to the Emerald Isle when things are about to get sharp and pointy for your mates won't win him any friends and supporters.

tac, waiting for the boot to drop.

If I was a betting man (I'm not) I reckon this will turn out to be some bureaucratic screw up......either paperwork gone astray or he skipped / skimped on some element of the discharge procedure.

Purely on the basis of the fact that no one would be stupid enough to go AWOL and / or be potentially tagged as a deserter and then flit back back and forward between here and the UK.......however, I could be completely wrong, maybe he was that stupid.......

ChicagoJoe

cruasder777 wrote: »

Obviously not the brightest spark deserting then returning to Britain for a stag do.

Lets hope he enjoys his stay in Colchester military corrective centre.


http://www.independent.ie/sport/gaelic-football/gaa-ace-on-uk-stag-trip-told-by-police-he-was-an-awol-british-soldier-30154308.html


A Gaelic footballer is to face a hearing before British Army officers to explain why he went absent without leave (AWOL) from the British Army 10 years ago.

" not the brightest spark " - that's why he joined the British army in the first place

ChicagoJoe

Hope this makes the headlines over here, will do wonders for British army recruitment in Ireland

OS119

Jawgap wrote: »

If I was a betting man (I'm not) I reckon this will turn out to be some bureaucratic screw up......either paperwork gone astray or he skipped / skimped on some element of the discharge procedure.

Purely on the basis of the fact that no one would be stupid enough to go AWOL and / or be potentially tagged as a deserter and then flit back back and forward between here and the UK.......however, I could be completely wrong, maybe he was that stupid.......

you'd be amazed at the spectacular examples of mind-blowing fcukwittery it has been my joy to witness...

i too wouldn't be that surprised if its a screw up, though its unusual to have a prosecution - when we 'lose' someone we just get rid, we don't want them blocking a place, and we don't want the hassle of a prosecution. i've got much more important and interesting things to spend my time doing than chase someone i probably don't think much of and who holds a similar opinion of me.

tac foley

ChicagoJoe wrote: »

" not the brightest spark " - that's why he joined the British army in the first place

That's not my experience of Irishmen in the British Army. They seemed to me to be very bright, and were all, to a man excellent soldiers in every respect. One of them, a Warrant Officer Class 2, was awarded a well-deserved MBE a few years back for his voluntary work with children. Like me, his is also a linguist and has a degree to his name. When he leaves the Army next year, he told me, he intends to become a doctor as there seems to be a shortage of them in RoI. His Irish wife already is.

It's sad to note that if it had not been for the incredible bottleneck in recruiting for the PDF, he would have been a shining example in the Irish Army, and one that you would probably have been praising him, instead of p1ssing on his head.

Still, it gives you something to do that could, if exaggerated greatly, be classed as a valid contribution to this thread, since it enabled me to point out the error of your opinion.

Have a great day.

tac

pablomakaveli

tac foley wrote: »

That's not my experience of Irishmen in the British Army. They seemed to me to be very bright, and were all, to a man excellent soldiers in every respect. One of them, a Warrant Officer Class 2, was awarded a well-deserved MBE a few years back for his voluntary work with children. Like me, his is also a linguist and has a degree to his name. When he leaves the Army next year, he told me, he intends to become a doctor as there seems to be a shortage of them in RoI. His Irish wife already is.

It's sad to note that if it had not been for the incredible bottleneck in recruiting for the PDF, he would have been a shining example in the Irish Army, and one that you would probably have been praising him, instead of p1ssing on his head.

Still, it gives you something to do that could, if exaggerated greatly, be classed as a valid contribution to this thread, since it enabled me to point out the error of your opinion.

Have a great day.

tac

I'd imagine his opinion of British soldiers is one informed only by republican propaganda which isnt too uncommon to see on Boards.

cruasder777

tac foley wrote: »

Re post #1 - he was in the British Army, but he was NOT a British soldier. He retained his Irish nationality throughout the duration of his service.

tac

Legally he is/was a British soldier.

cruasder777

pablomakaveli wrote: »

I'd imagine his opinion of British soldiers is one informed only by republican propaganda which isnt too uncommon to see on Boards.

Wonder how this guys pals in Kerry GAA are taking all this ?

Id be amazed if they knew hes an ex squaddie.

WhiteWalls

how did this case finish up anybody know?

Hedgemeister

Reminds me of the time back in the 80s when a popular Irish TV entertainer (now deceased) went on a gig to the UK only to be arrested for Desertion from Her Majesty's Forces. Ohh...the shock and horror of it all (for about five minutes) but the case was never mentioned again by the Media, and in true Irish fashion we never learned the outcome.


Why is every GAA player mentioned in the Media described as a 'GAA Star' of GAA 'Ace' ?

And Tac...we Irish don't do praise when it comes to our own soldiers, let alone members of the BA.

tac foley

Hedgemeister wrote: »

And Tac...we Irish don't do praise when it comes to our own soldiers, let alone members of the BA.

That's a shame.

But for an accident of location, I would have been wearing the uniform of an Irish soldier.

I would like to have thought that I would have made Ireland proud of me.

tac

Hedgemeister

tac foley wrote: »

That's a shame.

But for an accident of location, I would have been wearing the uniform of an Irish soldier.

I would like to have thought that I would have made Ireland proud of me.

tac

Well, for what its worth Tac, I would have been proud to soldier with you.

tac foley

Much appreciated, Sir.

tac

folbotcar

Hedgemeister wrote: »

Reminds me of the time back in the 80s when a popular Irish TV entertainer (now deceased) went on a gig to the UK only to be arrested for Desertion from Her Majesty's Forces. Ohh...the shock and horror of it all (for about five minutes) but the case was never mentioned again by the Media, and in true Irish fashion we never learned the outcome.


Why is every GAA player mentioned in the Media described as a 'GAA Star' of GAA 'Ace' ?

And Tac...we Irish don't do praise when it comes to our own soldiers, let alone members of the BA.

Yes that was Eugene Lambert, Wanderly Wagon and all that. In fact it was reported at the time as a case of mistaken identity. He was hardly the military type anyway.

As for using the words 'star' or 'ace' when it comes to GAA players. I can't see how you can use the two words in the same sentence with GAA.:p But that's my bias against that particular game!

Getting yourself a military career in this country is still very hit and miss. I read that 10,000 applied for 400 places. Those are horrendous odds. No wonder many join the BA. Which isn't that easy to get into either anymore. Many people seem to think the modern soldier are still like something out of the Napoleonic wars; cannon fodder. Nothing could be further from the truth.

Speaking of desertion, that book by time lord interests me. An uncle of mine supposedly went awol from the Irish army during the war. I don't know if he joined the British army though. Although he was nervous coming home in case he was picked up. I wonder if he's listed?

ted1

tac foley wrote: »

That's a shame.

But for an accident of location, I would have been wearing the uniform of an Irish soldier.

I would like to have thought that I would have made Ireland proud of me.

tac

Part of the problem is that Ireland is a proud neutral country, and the BA isn't

Jawgap

ted1 wrote: »

Part of the problem is that Ireland is a proud neutral country, and the BA isn't

We're 'neutral'?

Someone forgot to tell Shannon ATC........

BTW - whoever heard of a 'neutral' army?

tac foley

ted1 wrote: »

Part of the problem is that Ireland is a proud neutral country, and the BA isn't

That just has to the THE 'non sequitur' of the week, if not the month.

Apart from pointing out the fact that the British Army is not a country, I'm not even going to attempt to ask what you mean by it.

tac

folbotcar

ted1 wrote: »

Part of the problem is that Ireland is a proud neutral country, and the BA isn't

Maybe there should be a sticky at the head of this forum pointing to the uninitiated why Ireland is not 'neutral'?

As for 'proud neutral'. Isn't that an oxymoron?

It's remarkable how persistent the myth of neutrality is and how often it's portrayed as some form principled stance which sets Ireland apart from all those other nations who actually take the defence of their country seriously.

Manic Moran

[Mod]Chicago Joe won't be posting again until after the weekend.[/Mod]

hurlsey

To all of those who dont feel the same dont take this the wrong way

Irish attitudes to the Defence Forces as a whole are by and large horrendous, we're seen as pointless because "we do nothing"..... its a real shame that people don't understand the concept of Defence.

Let alone the fact that to be considered a truly sovereign state one should be capable of ones own Defence! Our Air corps isn't even pitiable, our Navy less than a laughing stock and our standing army is slowly but surely being chipped away because "we do nothing"

What makes it worse is that these, largely civvie opinions, are creeping into the organisation as a whole, how can any organisation hope to thrive when its own members see themselves as pointless due to the constant and underlying attitude of civvies and policy makers that is "Why do we even have an army?"

I have but one question to these romanticists

Do you REALLY want to see me do my job as you see it?

but sure it doesn't matter....... the BA will always be there in its many guises should it come to that

ignorance is bliss

ted1

hurlsey wrote: »

To all of those who dont feel the same dont take this the wrong way

Irish attitudes to the Defence Forces as a whole are by and large horrendous, we're seen as pointless because "we do nothing"..... its a real shame that people don't understand the concept of Defence.

Let alone the fact that to be considered a truly sovereign state one should be capable of ones own Defence! Our Air corps isn't even pitiable, our Navy less than a laughing stock and our standing army is slowly but surely being chipped away because "we do nothing"

What makes it worse is that these, largely civvie opinions, are creeping into the organisation as a whole, how can any organisation hope to thrive when its own members see themselves as pointless due to the constant and underlying attitude of civvies and policy makers that is "Why do we even have an army?"

I have but one question to these romanticists

Do you REALLY want to see me do my job as you see it?

but sure it doesn't matter....... the BA will always be there in its many guises should it come to that

ignorance is bliss

Civvies like myself do believe in our defence forces and do believe that they do a great job as peace keepers and minding Irish waters.

However I don't believe that in 2014 and beyond that Ireland would be invaded and hence have a need for defense. In fact the only countries that need defense are the aggressors like Britan and america. Let's be honest people attack them because if there foreign policy and ineterferencw in domestic situations outside of their home country.

As for Shannon ATC and us planes, neutrality would say we allow Iraq or similar troops equal access en route to the US

Lemming

ted1 wrote: »

However I don't believe that in 2014 and beyond that Ireland would be invaded and hence have a need for defense. In fact the only countries that need defense are the aggressors like Britan and america. Let's be honest people attack them because if there foreign policy and ineterferencw in domestic situations outside of their home country.

People have failed to believe bad events possible time and time again; the 20th Century is a fine case in point. I really shouldn't need to expand upon mention of that.

It should also not need pointed out that aggression comes in many shapes & sizes; not all of them stand-up shooting matches, and indeed increasingly not martial in their execution. As a result, the armed forces of any given nation need to be able to answer against said aggression - at least enough to deflect or blunt if not defeat it.

pablomakaveli

ted1 wrote: »

Civvies like myself do believe in our defence forces and do believe that they do a great job as peace keepers and minding Irish waters.

However I don't believe that in 2014 and beyond that Ireland would be invaded and hence have a need for defense. In fact the only countries that need defense are the aggressors like Britan and america. Let's be honest people attack them because if there foreign policy and ineterferencw in domestic situations outside of their home country.

As for Shannon ATC and us planes, neutrality would say we allow Iraq or similar troops equal access en route to the US

We have an internal threat in the form or dissident republicans and have had the threat from the IRA for decades. An external threat isn't always necessary to justify having a defence force.

Jawgap

ted1 wrote: »

.......

However I don't believe that in 2014 and beyond that Ireland would be invaded and hence have a need for defense. In fact the only countries that need defense are the aggressors like Britan and america. Let's be honest people attack them because if there foreign policy and ineterferencw in domestic situations outside of their home country.

.......

people really don't 'get' why we have a defence force - I've said it before, and I'll say it again it's about contingency. They really are the people the state calls on for those "oh sh1t" moments.

Foot & Mouth in the UK and the G4S cock-up of Olympic security are just two of the bigger examples I can think off when a country's armed services had to pull somebody else's nuts out of the fire - never mind the 'routine' fire, flood and natural disaster type stuff they help out with in all countries.

If you look at the US, one of the first things they do at a time of natural disasters is "call out the Guard" - somehow I doubt it's because they think the Canadians are going to use the opportunity of a tornado in Kansas to invade Detriot????

And you could argue that the DF's role could be merged with AGS - but look at that organisation - would you really want that much power concentrated in a force who since the founding of the state has seen over 50% of those who've held the top job fired or resigned? Compared to the 0% of CoSs?

pablomakaveli wrote: »

We have an internal threat in the form or dissident republicans and have had the threat from the IRA for decades. An external threat isn't always necessary to justify having a defence force.

......and apparently they haven't gone away, you know.......

Del2005

hurlsey wrote: »

To all of those who dont feel the same dont take this the wrong way

Irish attitudes to the Defence Forces as a whole are by and large horrendous, we're seen as pointless because "we do nothing"..... its a real shame that people don't understand the concept of Defence.

Let alone the fact that to be considered a truly sovereign state one should be capable of ones own Defence! Our Air corps isn't even pitiable, our Navy less than a laughing stock and our standing army is slowly but surely being chipped away because "we do nothing"

What makes it worse is that these, largely civvie opinions, are creeping into the organisation as a whole, how can any organisation hope to thrive when its own members see themselves as pointless due to the constant and underlying attitude of civvies and policy makers that is "Why do we even have an army?"

I have but one question to these romanticists

Do you REALLY want to see me do my job as you see it?

but sure it doesn't matter....... the BA will always be there in its many guises should it come to that

ignorance is bliss

In order for our armed forces to do their job, defend the country from invasion, we'd need to spend many multiples of the amount we currently spend which will never happen. While the peace keeping missions do a good job for they army and Irelands international reputation it doesn't do anything for our own defence. And as said a modern army is highly trained we couldn't use conscription to build up the numbers if we had enough time, they would just be cannon fodder.

So essentially we have a defence force that can't do its job, but would do the best it can if required. So what's the point in spending millions on it when we have other places where the money spent would make a difference. For civilians to respect our military we'd need to spend so much that they would hate our military.

As for people saying we've nothing to be worried about as no one will invade us, only the UK has to worry, have a look at history and see how aggressive nations treat neutral countries. We where and still are the UKs weak back door and a very good staging point to invade from, with an armed forces that won't take much effort to overcome.

pablomakaveli

Del2005 wrote: »

In order for our armed forces to do their job, defend the country from invasion, we'd need to spend many multiples of the amount we currently spend which will never happen. While the peace keeping missions do a good job for they army and Irelands international reputation it doesn't do anything for our own defence. And as said a modern army is highly trained we couldn't use conscription to build up the numbers if we had enough time, they would just be cannon fodder.

So essentially we have a defence force that can't do its job, but would do the best it can if required. So what's the point in spending millions on it when we have other places where the money spent would make a difference. For civilians to respect our military we'd need to spend so much that they would hate our military.

As for people saying we've nothing to be worried about as no one will invade us, only the UK has to worry, have a look at history and see how aggressive nations treat neutral countries. We where and still are the UKs weak back door and a very good staging point to invade from, with an armed forces that won't take much effort to overcome.

Actually the peacekeeping missions have had benefit. The experience of dealing with IED's in Lebanon has made the DF one of the world leaders in dealing with those devices.That knowledge has beenof benefit todealing with these devices at home and abroad.

And as has beensaid the internal threat has always beenlarger than the external for the last few decades.

Fred Swanson

This post has been deleted.

delta-boy

discus wrote: »

You have to do guard? No mpgs? Stinger!

Aye mate one of the joys being in Colliewood

discus

Thats one reason I didn't go infantry, the risk of catterick or collie!

tac foley

discus wrote: »

Thats one reason I didn't go infantry, the risk of catterick or collie!

'snot only infantry who get their turn at Garrison duties in Colliewood, y'know.

tac

discus

I'll eat my lid if anyone from 3 Cdo Brig ever has to do it.

delta-boy

discus wrote: »

I'll eat my lid if anyone from 3 Cdo Brig ever has to do it.

MPGS and civvies used to stag on but thanks to the blokes being naughty after being out on the weekend it reverted back to us to do the duties.

Just take the good with the bad, yeah it's pretty rats but don't get a sad on, get a mag on and stag on

Discus are you attached to the cabbages?

discus

I'm an army cabbage, passed the All Arms Commando course last year.

I think I'm lucky where I am so. If they took away the mpgs they would have rhe single lads stag on every weekend... **** that ****