Is it permissible to travel to viewings outside of 2KM?

runswithascript · 05-04-2020 12:30pm #1

I am staying in Kildare at the moment but have desperately been trying to find a small flat in Dublin the last few months. The number available seemed to increase when there was just a few case here but now there are very few, although around twice a week I will receive an alert.

Given the outbreak, is it permissible to travel to viewings? I wonder if a guard were to stop me would he accept travelling for a viewing essential or would he find me in breach of the law?

micks_address · 05-04-2020 12:33pm

runswithascript wrote: »

I am staying in Kildare at the moment but have desperately been trying to find a small flat in Dublin the last few months. The number available seemed to increase when there was just a few case here but now there are very few, although around twice a week I will receive an alert.

Given the outbreak, is it permissible to travel to viewings? I wonder if a guard were to stop me would he accept travelling for a viewing essential or would he find me in breach of the law?

Worst case is they will tell you to go home. It's not essential and someone will be along shortly to tell you you are risking lives but do your groceries beside the viewing and we will all feel better. As long as you aren't hugging the landlord or in an overcrowded space then I think it's probably reasonable

runswithascript · 05-04-2020 12:38pm

I have just read somewhere else:

Landlords are accommodation providers. Accommodation is an essential so landlord providing accommodation or maintaining accommodation would be entitled to travel for that purpose.

Still reading.

10pennymixup · 05-04-2020 1:52pm

runswithascript wrote: »

I have just read somewhere else:

Still reading.

Genuinely interested to hear where this quote comes from. All I could find about accommodation services was the list of essential services 28th March from gov.ie

Accommodation and Food Services
hotels or similar providing essential accommodation (including homeless, direct provision and related services)

Graham · 05-04-2020 1:57pm

10pennymixup wrote: »

Genuinely interested to hear where this quote comes from.

It was another posters interpretation of what qualifies as essential.

dor843088 · 05-04-2020 2:34pm

https://merrionstreet.ie/en/News-Room/News/Speech_of_Taoiseach_Leo_Varadkar_27_March_2020.html

People should really pay attention. And also cop on. Travelling around viewing apartments? Really ?

runswithascript · 05-04-2020 2:36pm

dor843088 wrote: »

https://merrionstreet.ie/en/News-Room/News/Speech_of_Taoiseach_Leo_Varadkar_27_March_2020.html

People should really pay attention. And also cop on. Travelling around viewing apartments? Really ?

Accommodation is essential, you do not know my situation.

Graham · 05-04-2020 2:43pm

FWIW my opinion would be it's not essential unless you are homeless.

Anybody who currently has accommodation would be protected by the emergency legislation for the most part.

saabsaab · 05-04-2020 3:10pm

There is an exemption for

12. Rental & Leasing Activity

I don't know if your case would qualify? Try to do it online as much as possible. I would be very careful take precautions etc.

10pennymixup · 05-04-2020 3:18pm

saabsaab wrote: »

There is an exemption for

12. Rental & Leasing Activity

I don't know if your case would qualify? Try to do it online as much as possible. I would be very careful take precautions etc.

I thought that pertained to vehicles, especially ones used to move food and essential personnel around:

From gov.ie 28/3/20

Rental and Leasing Activities

rental and lease of cars
light motor vehicles and trucks necessary to support the provision of essential services

runswithascript · 05-04-2020 3:18pm

Graham wrote: »

Anybody who currently has accommodation would be protected by the emergency legislation for the most part.

Without going into too much detail, unfortunately that does not help me.

Either way, I will obey the law, I was just unsure exactly what it was.

Baby01032012 · 05-04-2020 3:19pm

I’m an estate agent. Letting an apartment does not come under an essential service. I had a maintenance guy go to an apartment block time repair a gate he was stopped and fined €150 by the guards as it’s not an essential service.
I doubt you’ll find any agent actually doing physical viewings. A lot including the bigger agents are doing virtual viewings.
Your health is essential OP, this is potentially a life and death scenario. Your situation is not.

headtheball14 · 05-04-2020 3:19pm

Every trip that everyone makes exposes themselves and others to risk of infection.
The advice is to stay at home where possible.
If its not possible then minimise the risk. You're an adult presumably so use your skills to make a judgement in that case in your own situation.
There are very few situations where I could see this trip being justifiable but again you need to make your own judgement and be able potentially to explain this to a garda.

Quantum Erasure · 05-04-2020 3:21pm

The 2km thing is for being out walking/ for exercise. It's so loads of people don't turn up at beaches or Glendalough for a stroll...

You'll be grand

saabsaab · 05-04-2020 3:50pm

10pennymixup wrote: »

I thought that pertained to vehicles, especially ones used to move food and essential personnel around:

From gov.ie 28/3/20

Rental and Leasing Activities
rental and lease of cars

light motor vehicles and trucks necessary to support the provision of essential services

I stand corrected. I thought it was to do with properties as I didn't see the clarifications you have.

Quantum Erasure · 05-04-2020 6:15pm

Quantum Erasure wrote: »

The 2km thing is for being out walking/ for exercise. It's so loads of people don't turn up at beaches or Glendalough for a stroll...

Was this changed, or did I just take it up wrong? Someone I know was stopped and told they really shouldn't be travelling outside of 2km unless it was essential, they were let through though... wasn't an essential errand they were on either

Baby01032012 · 05-04-2020 7:09pm

Quantum Erasure wrote: »

Was this changed, or did I just take it up wrong? Someone I know was stopped and told they really shouldn't be travelling outside of 2km unless it was essential, they were let through though... wasn't an essential errand they were on either

Wasn’t changed. You’re allowed to take exercise within two km and to travel beyond that distance for essential travel like food shopping or taking care of family

Marcusm · 05-04-2020 9:42pm

Baby01032012 wrote: »

I’m an estate agent. Letting an apartment does not come under an essential service. I had a maintenance guy go to an apartment block time repair a gate he was stopped and fined €150 by the guards as it’s not an essential service.
I doubt you’ll find any agent actually doing physical viewings. A lot including the bigger agents are doing virtual viewings.
Your health is essential OP, this is potentially a life and death scenario. Your situation is not.

I support the restrictions on movement but I’d love you to tell me under which law he was fined. As of yet, no lawful restrictions have been put in place, regulations are awaited and will likely only be enacted if there is widespread dismissal of the instructions to remain at home.

Bargain_Hound · 06-04-2020 9:58am

Baby01032012 wrote: »

I’m an estate agent. Letting an apartment does not come under an essential service. I had a maintenance guy go to an apartment block time repair a gate he was stopped and fined €150 by the guards as it’s not an essential service.
I doubt you’ll find any agent actually doing physical viewings. A lot including the bigger agents are doing virtual viewings.
Your health is essential OP, this is potentially a life and death scenario. Your situation is not.

Did he invoice you for the 150e cost to him?

runswithascript · 07-04-2020 2:55pm

Just spoke with an estate agent who said they are holding viewings but the property will be completely empty, they will be outside but keep distance, and will leave the keys somewhere the individual viewer can pick up on their own and take a look.

I will contact the local Garda station and see if they can give me some sort of note to say it is permissible, otherwise I will not go.

Bandana boy · 07-04-2020 3:03pm

the 2km only applies to exercise
if your business is essential the 2km does not apply
if your business is non essential the 2km is not a waiver

Bandana boy · 07-04-2020 3:06pm

Baby01032012 wrote: »

I’m an estate agent. Letting an apartment does not come under an essential service. I had a maintenance guy go to an apartment block time repair a gate he was stopped and fined €150 by the guards as it’s not an essential service.

This did not happen
Why would you make it up !

SmartinMartin · 07-04-2020 3:22pm

Baby01032012 wrote: »

I’m an estate agent. Letting an apartment does not come under an essential service. I had a maintenance guy go to an apartment block time repair a gate he was stopped and fined €150 by the guards as it’s not an essential service.
I doubt you’ll find any agent actually doing physical viewings. A lot including the bigger agents are doing virtual viewings.
Your health is essential OP, this is potentially a life and death scenario. Your situation is not.

I'm calling bullsh1t on this. As yet the govt guidelines are only advisory, they have not been enacted into law, or invoked. What was he fined for?

@op, there is no law stating that you can't travel, only advice and a govt request. Morally, it's your choice.

runswithascript · 07-04-2020 3:25pm

SmartinMartin wrote: »

@op, there is no law stating that you can't travel, only advice and a govt request. Morally, it's your choice.

Really?

I thought it was being enforced some how, I did not know it was optional.

Plumbthedepths · 07-04-2020 3:30pm

runswithascript wrote: »

Really?

I thought it was being enforced some how, I did not know it was optional.

It's not optional, just a specific law to stop you from no non essential travel has not been enacted under ministerial order. The guards if they stop you have other measures to force you to turn around.
Can you not just follow the guidelines ? They weren't created just for the craic.

SmartinMartin · 07-04-2020 4:01pm

Can you be more specific please? What law gives them the power to send you home?

the_syco · 07-04-2020 4:06pm

Plumbthedepths wrote: »

Can you not just follow the guidelines ? They weren't created just for the craic.

If the OP is a lodger, they can be given 24 hours notice to leave at the drop of a hat. If any of the lodgers in the house get sick, the landlord/lady will probably clear house.

OP; travel light, dress well and bring proof that of the place you intend on viewing. The Garda may let you off, or may slap you with a fine.

Plumbthedepths · 07-04-2020 4:08pm

SmartinMartin wrote: »

Can you be more specific please? What law gives them the power to send you home?

Public order act to name one.

SmartinMartin · 07-04-2020 4:11pm

The public order act doesn't give power to turn someone around from a journey.

runswithascript · 07-04-2020 4:40pm

the_syco wrote: »

If the OP is a lodger, they can be given 24 hours notice to leave at the drop of a hat. If any of the lodgers in the house get sick, the landlord/lady will probably clear house.

OP; travel light, dress well and bring proof that of the place you intend on viewing. The Garda may let you off, or may slap you with a fine.

I just explained my current living situation to a Garda, and the issues I am experiencing, again which I will not be getting into here, and they have given me permission to travel to viewing which I can show if stopped

Plumbthedepths · 07-04-2020 4:46pm

SmartinMartin wrote: »

The public order act doesn't give power to turn someone around from a journey.

Argue that with a Guard see how it goes.

SmartinMartin · 07-04-2020 5:40pm

I've just read through the act and it doesn't apply, so there's nothing to argue.

Plumbthedepths · 07-04-2020 5:52pm

SmartinMartin wrote: »

I've just read through the act and it doesn't apply, so there's nothing to argue.

As I said when you get stopped by a Guard and he /she uses the PO act or any other act they feel applies feel free to point out it doesn't apply I 'm sure the Guard will bow to your greater knowledge.
You do realise now is not the time to be a d**k?

SmartinMartin · 07-04-2020 6:50pm

Plumbthedepths wrote: »

As I said when you get stopped by a Guard and he /she uses the PO act or any other act they feel applies feel free to point out it doesn't apply I 'm sure the Guard will bow to your greater knowledge.
You do realise now is not the time to be a d**k?

You could apply that to yourself, because nowhere did I advocate arguing with the authorities. I think the guards are doing a great job during this pandemic, but your assertion that they'll just quote an act that has nothing to do with the circumstances is pie in the sky. As stated previously, until they bring in specific law it is not illegal to undertake a journey as suggested by the op.

Plumbthedepths · 07-04-2020 6:55pm

SmartinMartin wrote: »

You could apply that to yourself, because nowhere did I advocate arguing with the authorities. I think the guards are doing a great job during this pandemic, but your assertion that they'll just quote an act that has nothing to do with the circumstances is pie in the sky. As stated previously, until they bring in specific law it is not illegal to undertake a journey as suggested by the op.

I don't need to apply anything to myself. The government gave clear guidelines on travel. Which since the onset of this crisis I have adhered to as I know these restrictions weren't imposed lightly.
Do you need a specific law to make you do whats right?
Btw my assertion is not pie the sky, several members of my family are in the force . Most people will follow a reasonable request from a Guard without looking for a specific act which said request falls under.
Bye now.

Sleeper12 · 07-04-2020 6:58pm

micks_address wrote:

Worst case is they will tell you to go home. It's not essential and someone will be along shortly to tell you you are risking lives but do your groceries beside the viewing and we will all feel better. As long as you aren't hugging the landlord or in an overcrowded space then I think it's probably reasonable

They will ask you to go home.

Laws that allow the Gardai to tell you to go home haven't been passed yet

SmartinMartin · 07-04-2020 7:10pm

Plumbthedepths wrote: »

I don't need to apply anything to myself. The government gave clear guidelines on travel. Which since the onset of this crisis I have adhered to as I know these restrictions weren't imposed lightly.
Do you need a specific law to make you do whats right?
Btw my assertion is not pie the sky, several members of my family are in the force . Most people will follow a reasonable request from a Guard without looking for a specific act which said request falls under.
Bye now.

Ah, so there's no law. Bye now.

Quantum Erasure · 07-04-2020 7:12pm

Sleeper12 wrote: »

They will ask you to go home.

Laws that allow the Gardai to tell you to go home haven't been passed yet

is this one of these cases where they ask you to go home, and if you refuse, that gives them grounds to tell you to go home?

the_syco · 07-04-2020 8:27pm

SmartinMartin wrote: »

Ah, so there's no law. Bye now.

Yet. No law yet. But it's coming; https://www.rte.ie/news/coronavirus/2020/0402/1128191-coronavirus-garda-powers/

But to be fair, if you say no to the Gardai, they'll ask for ID. And said ID will probably have your address.

Plumbthedepths · 07-04-2020 8:37pm

Quantum Erasure wrote: »

is this one of these cases where they ask you to go home, and if you refuse, that gives them grounds to tell you to go home?

They ask you to go home , you refuse. The offense is failure to follow the direction of a Guard. Where you are then giving the opportunity to go home or to the Garda station.

SmartinMartin · 07-04-2020 8:39pm

Plumbthedepths wrote: »

They ask you to go home , you refuse. The offense is failure to follow the direction of a Guard. Where you are then giving the opportunity to go home or to the Garda station.

Failure to follow the direction of a Garda under what act?

Sleeper12 · 07-04-2020 8:48pm

dor843088 wrote:

People should really pay attention. And also cop on. Travelling around viewing apartments? Really ?

Ah Leo's speach is like the Bible. It's open to interpretation. There's a lot of people were determined that Leo said only one parent was allowed out with the children when in actual fact he never ruled out both parents.

Plumbthedepths · 07-04-2020 8:49pm

SmartinMartin wrote: »

Failure to follow the direction of a Garda under what act?

You like reading, off you go. Not interested in providing you with entertainment.
You claim you understand the Guards have a tough job yet here you are asking what acts can a Guard use to stop you being a d**k.
Reply if you wish but I'm done with your nonsense.

SmartinMartin · 07-04-2020 8:57pm

You're the one talking nonsense here. There is no law in place yet to direct a person to go home, no matter how many of your family are in the guards, end of. You are just blustering by suggesting they'll get you somehow. The Guards are requesting people to comply, and in the nicest possible way by the way, judging by the 10 or so checkpoints I've been through so far, and until the law comes in that's all they'll do.

Caranica · 07-04-2020 9:31pm

SmartinMartin wrote: »

You're the one talking nonsense here. There is no law in place yet to direct a person to go home, no matter how many of your family are in the guards, end of. You are just blustering by suggesting they'll get you somehow. The Guards are requesting people to comply, and in the nicest possible way by the way, judging by the 10 or so checkpoints I've been through so far, and until the law comes in that's all they'll do.

Surely the point is that it is morally reprehensible to make any unnecessary journeys when people are dying from this virus. It's sickening how many people are ignoring the requests to stay at home and are jeopardising public health because they think they are special. Arguing with the Gardai who are risking their health to keep the rest of us safe is disgusting.

Going back to A&P, where possible viewings should be done by video chat if renting and afaik viewings of property for sale are all but stopped.

SmartinMartin · 07-04-2020 9:37pm

We are in agreement. At no stage did I suggest arguing with Gardai. I merely informed the op that there was no law in place to cover being sent home, leaving the moral decision to him.

Quantum Erasure · 07-04-2020 9:41pm

Did Simon Harris just say he was going to sign the order now on Prime Time?

jlm29 · 07-04-2020 9:45pm

Quantum Erasure wrote: »

Did Simon Harris just say he was going to sign the order now on Prime Time?

This evening, he said!

Quantum Erasure · 07-04-2020 9:48pm

jlm29 wrote: »

This evening, he said!

well yeah, i didn't think he was going to sign it live on telly.

although...

SmartinMartin · 07-04-2020 9:50pm

Well that's good, it left the Guards in an awkward position should someone persist. Was there not some question of an interim govt being unable to enact?

seasidedub · 07-04-2020 9:58pm

I've moved in the middle of all this. Went to guards who told me moving home fell under essential business as people cant be homeless. I'd sold and purchasers were desperate.

I put stickers on stuff to be moved, a guy put them in his van, took them to storage for the larger items as am temporarily renting and it's furnished. He dropped the other items to door of new place. I literally moved without human contact. The storage had a pin number for him to get in, noone there.

I shop in same places as always, no change or additional spread, drive to work as am frontline, walk beach across road for exercise as allowed and other than that stay home alone.

It can be done.

Is it permissible to travel to viewings outside of 2KM?

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