US Presidential Election 2020

Rjd2 · 03-03-2020 6:16pm

Foxtrol wrote: »

And Trumpers are all on Bernie, which should be a giveaway for who they think is easier to beat in November

Are they though?

Tucker has sounded the alarm on Bernie and Trump is not keen to run against him whatsoever.

Look like any relatively sane person I loath those 2 dudes, but they can read a room much better than so many of the "experts" who got it wrong last time round.

Foxtrol · 03-03-2020 6:26pm

Joe_ Public wrote: »

It wasnt previous post i was addressing, it was this comment - "Sanders lost every age group of black voters to Biden per the exit polls" - which isnt correct from results ive seen. Sanders led under 30s by 2 points. If you imagine msnbc are in any way neutral on sanders, then i really dont know what to say. They and cnn had the hots for buttigieg, sorry "mayor pete", for a while but now its back to biden as the race tightens up. I dont think there's anything very subtle about it.

Well we're using different sources then

https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/2020-election/live-blog/south-carolina-primary-live-updates-democrats-vote-2020-candidates-n1145296/ncrd1146266#liveBlogHeader

Are you talking about specific people at msnbc/cnn or the entity themselves?

Bernie and his supporters want to have his cake and eat it. Crap on 'the establishment' and the media and then cry when those people don't support him. I understand it politically, it works well for Trump, but I'd hope more people wouldn't be stupid enough to fall for it again.

sid waddell · 03-03-2020 6:26pm

x43r0 wrote: »

I can see a narrative developing of "I'd rather vote for 4 more years of Trump than a pedo!". People really latch onto this stuff without asking for the slightest shred of evidence

Yet Trump was named as raping a 13 year old girl in an actually filed lawsuit which went into quite graphic and grotesque detail.

It seems there are very different rules for Republicans and Democrats.

Foxtrol · 03-03-2020 6:28pm

Rjd2 wrote: »

Are they though?

Tucker has sounded the alarm on Bernie and Trump is not keen to run against him whatsoever.

Look like any relatively sane person I loath those 2 dudes, but they can read a room much better than so many of the "experts" who got it wrong last time round.

Trump got himself impeached trying to dig up any type of dirt on Biden. To say he'd prefer to run against Biden than Bernie is ridiculous.

The Phantom Jipper · 03-03-2020 6:29pm

Rjd2 wrote: »

Are they though?

Tucker has sounded the alarm on Bernie and Trump is not keen to run against him whatsoever.

Look like any relatively sane person I loath those 2 dudes, but they can read a room much better than so many of the "experts" who got it wrong last time round.

The fact Trump risked impeachment to try and sully Biden's name is a clear sign who he fears in the general. Whether he should fear Biden that much is a different story, but he definitely seems to.

sid waddell · 03-03-2020 6:32pm

Foxtrol wrote: »

It isn't just that though.
Bernie's path to winning the presidency doesn't look to align with where democrats can make gains in the senate.

The three most likely Democratic senate gains in 2020 are Colorado, Maine and Arizona.

Polls show Sanders is comfortably ahead in all three states.

Rjd2 · 03-03-2020 6:36pm

The Phantom Jipper wrote: »

The fact Trump risked impeachment to try and sully Biden's name is a clear sign who he fears in the general. Whether he should fear Biden that much is a different story, but he definitely seems to.

Its Trump, I genuinely don't think he realised what he was doing was wrong. He has spent a career of and I am been very kind here walking the tightrope regarding right/wrong.

On Bernie from the daily beast which is not popular in Bernie circles.

Trump has many flaws, but the man proved in 2016 he knows how to read a room. I'd take his judgement over the professional critics who have spent the last few years getting it wrong.

https://www.thedailybeast.com/trump-2020-president-privately-tells-confidants-that-socialism-wont-be-so-easy-to-beat

Englo · 03-03-2020 6:53pm

sid waddell wrote: »

Yet Trump was named as raping a 13 year old girl in an actually filed lawsuit which went into quite graphic and grotesque detail.

It seems there are very different rules for Republicans and Democrats.

One is a political party, the other has become a cult. That's all you need to know, and for evidence just look at most Trump supporting posts on this thread.

briany · 03-03-2020 6:53pm

Rjd2 wrote: »

Its Trump, I genuinely don't think he realised what he was doing was wrong. He has spent a career of and I am been very kind here walking the tightrope regarding right/wrong.

On Bernie from the daily beast which is not popular in Bernie circles.

Trump has many flaws, but the man proved in 2016 he knows how to read a room. I'd take his judgement over the professional critics who have spent the last few years getting it wrong.

https://www.thedailybeast.com/trump-2020-president-privately-tells-confidants-that-socialism-wont-be-so-easy-to-beat

I wouldn't say he knows how to read a room, but I would say that he was able to tap into a dark undercurrent in the American psyche and bring it right to the fore. He's definitely been able to read those people. I'm not saying that it was a positive thing to do, but it shows some degree of natural instinct which many politicians running against him appeared to profoundly lack.

pixelburp · 03-03-2020 7:04pm

There are many things broken in America. Donald Trump stepped into the limelight, and said, with simple, demonstrative language, "I can fix all the broken things". In some ways the rise of Trump is complex, but his actual campaign, and the manner in which he conducted it, was not. It was (overly) simple language, and big ideas. Build the Wall. Repeal and Replace. Lock Her Up. Make American Great Again.

Now, it has dovetailed into a full blown cult, so Trump's inability to fix any of these broken things (infrastructure, health-care, the dying Rust Belt) hasn't been called into question half as much as it should have been; but then that's the ability of the con man. It's not his fault, no no, look at this winning over here, don't look at the crumbling bridges over there. We're winning because I tell you we're winning.

This is the fundamental reason why a Biden nomination will gift Trump the election; because all he has to do, is point at Biden and go "there's the reason we're not winning as much as we are. There's the guy that's causing your coal mines to close, even though they're not closing 'cos we're winning so much", and honestly, who can argue with that? I think Trump is a repugnant, vulgar human being and while he should be judged on the successes or failures of his 4 years, Biden will simply reframe the narrative into "Us versus Them" all over again.

Joe_ Public · 03-03-2020 7:06pm

Foxtrol wrote: »

Well we're using different sources then

https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/2020-election/live-blog/south-carolina-primary-live-updates-democrats-vote-2020-candidates-n1145296/ncrd1146266#liveBlogHeader

Are you talking about specific people at msnbc/cnn or the entity themselves?

Bernie and his supporters want to have his cake and eat it. Crap on 'the establishment' and the media and then cry when those people don't support him. I understand it politically, it works well for Trump, but I'd hope more people wouldn't be stupid enough to fall for it again.

No, same source i think but you might be looking at projected polls, exit polls are here:

https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/2020-primary-elections/south-carolina-results

I am talking purely about their analysis. From "senator warren what did you think when sanders told you a woman couldnt win" to comparing sanders' progress to the spread of nazism, there's a long list of clear anti sanders coverage. I would say its akin to the guardian/observer coverage of corbyn pre uk election, they gave the pro corbyn wing the odd bone, but their ranks were swelled with senior, ageing middle class columnists who were bitterly opposed to corbyn which hurt him badly. But us media and networks dont seem to carry the same level of influence so any damage to sanders would be minimal enough i think.

Itssoeasy · 03-03-2020 7:20pm

I know what I said about Bernie sanders last night probably isn't the popular point of view it seems but I stand by it simply because I think he's too old and his health which btw he's said there will be no more info on which I think is poor form given the job he's running for. I'm not saying joe Biden is much better as a candidate but the debates between sanders and trump would be torture to watch. I will say one thing for both sanders and Biden in that while they are as old as trump they haven't diminished mentally like trump has which may not be the compliment I think it is.

Now, in saying all that above and last night the American electorate voted Donald trump president and George W Bush twice as president so maybe we are all giving them far too much credit.

If nothing else the votes today may clear up things further or make them worse. We shall know sometime tomorrow Irish time what the state of play is.

Sheridan81 · 03-03-2020 7:52pm

Itssoeasy wrote: »

I will say one thing for both sanders and Biden in that while they are as old as trump they haven't diminished mentally like trump has which may not be the compliment I think it is. .

Biden has declined mentally more than Trump. He speaks like a guy who should be in an old folk's home.

Manic Moran · 03-03-2020 8:02pm

Foxtrol wrote: »

It isn't just that though.

The house seats that the Democrats gained recently are mostly in moderate suburban areas, where Bernie and his policies are deemed to be unpopular. It is thought that it will make it more difficult to keep or win similar seats if the candidate for the house has to run opposing many aspects of Bernie's platform.

Realistically, those are the same voters. Colleague of mine in Austin reported a three-hour voting ordeal.

Foxtrol · 03-03-2020 8:18pm

sid waddell wrote: »

The three most likely Democratic senate gains in 2020 are Colorado, Maine and Arizona.

Polls show Sanders is comfortably ahead in all three states.

I thought you weren't responding to me anymore :rolleyes:

Care to share your source for Sanders leading Biden against Trump in a general election for all 3 states?

Latest polls I can see Sanders is ahead in only 1 of those 3.

hotmail.com · 03-03-2020 8:39pm

Englo wrote: »

One is a political party, the other has become a cult. That's all you need to know, and for evidence just look at most Trump supporting posts on this thread.

Both parties have similar economic policies from a European point of view.

sid waddell · 03-03-2020 8:42pm

I see the Biden cultist is now claiming that Biden being behind Sanders in particular states means he's more "electable" than Sanders in those states.

The "centrists" sure have taken Trump's playbook and run with it.

Foxtrol · 03-03-2020 8:54pm

Joe_ Public wrote: »

No, same source i think but you might be looking at projected polls, exit polls are here:

https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/2020-primary-elections/south-carolina-results

Projected polls? It was posted 2 hours after polls closed and I saw those exact numbers used from my link yesterday morning on TV.

I am talking purely about their analysis. From "senator warren what did you think when sanders told you a woman couldnt win" to comparing sanders' progress to the spread of nazism, there's a long list of clear anti sanders coverage. I would say its akin to the guardian/observer coverage of corbyn pre uk election, they gave the pro corbyn wing the odd bone, but their ranks were swelled with senior, ageing middle class columnists who were bitterly opposed to corbyn which hurt him badly. But us media and networks dont seem to carry the same level of influence so any damage to sanders would be minimal enough i think.

The time the media gave to the nonsense about Biden and Ukraine tops the time spent on all of your complaints.

Foxtrol · 03-03-2020 9:03pm

sid waddell wrote: »

I see the Biden cultist is now claiming that Biden being behind Sanders in particular states means he's more "electable" than Sanders in those states.

The "centrists" sure have taken Trump's playbook and run with it.

I ask you for evidence and rather than providing it you just repeat your claim. :rolleyes:

Here's mine:

Arizona - Biden tie with Trump and Bernie losing
https://projects.fivethirtyeight.com/polls/president-general/arizona/

Maine - Both winning against Trump but Biden up by +2 on Bernie
https://projects.fivethirtyeight.com/polls/president-general/maine/

Colorado - Both winning against Trump but Bernie up by +2 on Biden
https://projects.fivethirtyeight.com/polls/president-general/colorado/

Are you confusing the democratic primary with the general election? The whole point of hurting down ballot candidates is about the general so quoting primary polling is pointless.

Joe_ Public · 03-03-2020 9:33pm

Foxtrol wrote: »

Projected polls? It was posted 2 hours after polls closed and I saw those exact numbers used from my link yesterday morning on TV.

The time the media gave to the nonsense about Biden and Ukraine tops the time spent on all of your complaints.

I mean, strewth, the link you provided says projected. Literally, half a dozen times...in the headline, in the lede, the main body. The link i posted is actual exit poll results. Anyway....moving on...

Englo · 03-03-2020 9:37pm

sid waddell wrote: »

All the same stuff was said about Obama in 2008.

Sure how could a black candidate with a middle name Hussein and perceived links to the leaders of the Weather Underground win?

Totally unelectable, totally.

I actually went to look this up, since it was 12 years ago and time can play some games with memory. The results were actually quite startling... it turns out 'Bernie = cult' is basically a copy/paste job of what we saw 12 years ago. Below are just some examples:

CNN and ABC pushing that his supporters are going 'too far', are 'creepy' and are 'cult like', and mocking that his supporters would be selling flowers at airports because they're apparently like Hari Krishna's.
https://www.mediamatters.org/washington-post/cnn-repeats-smear-obama-supporters-creepy-and-cult

Here is a Politco article with some more: https://www.mediamatters.org/washington-post/cnn-repeats-smear-obama-supporters-creepy-and-cult

Joe Klein (Time Magazine): “There was something just a wee bit creepy about the mass messianism — ‘We are the ones we’ve been waiting for’

Jake Tapper (ABC): Holy Season of Lent is upon us,” Tapper wrote. “Can Obama worshippers try to give up their Helter-Skelter cultish qualities for a few weeks?”

Joel Stein (LA Times): “Obamaphilia has gotten creepy,” Joel Stein wrote in Friday’s Los Angeles Times. “What the Cult of Obama doesn’t realize is that he is a politician.”

And this gem from the New York Times is just a cut above, comparing Obama's support not only to a cult but to Nixon, and deciding people don't want to vote for him because reasons.
https://www.nytimes.com/2008/02/11/opinion/11krugman.html?ex=1360386000&en=27226393f6769d99&ei=5124&partner=permalink&exprod=permalink

In fact, these days even the Democratic Party seems to be turning into Nixonland

...

Why, then, is there so much venom out there?

I won’t try for fake evenhandedness here: most of the venom I see is coming from supporters of Mr. Obama, who want their hero or nobody. I’m not the first to point out that the Obama campaign seems dangerously close to becoming a cult of personality.

...

One of the most hopeful moments of this presidential campaign came last month, when a number of Jewish leaders signed a letter condemning the smear campaign claiming that Mr. Obama was a secret Muslim. It’s a good guess that some of those leaders would prefer that Mr. Obama not become president; nonetheless, they understood that there are principles that matter more than short-term political advantage.

sid waddell · 03-03-2020 9:39pm

Foxtrol wrote: »

The time the media gave to the nonsense about Biden and Ukraine tops the time spent on all of your complaints.

As a Biden supporter, I imagine the coverage given to the fake Biden Ukraine conspiracy theory pisses you off.

Strange then you've decided your attitude towards Sanders should mirror that conspiracy theory in terms of craziness.

hotmail.com · 03-03-2020 9:42pm

If Biden was running for the Dail, he would be running for Fianna Fail or Fine Gael. Or the Progessive Democrats if they were still around.

sid waddell · 03-03-2020 9:43pm

Englo wrote: »

I actually went to look this up, since it was 12 years ago and time can play some games with memory. The results were actually quite startling... it turns out 'Bernie = cult' is basically a copy/paste job of what we saw 12 years ago. Below are just some examples:

CNN and ABC pushing that his supporters are going 'too far', are 'creepy' and are 'cult like', and mocking that his supporters would be selling flowers at airports because they're apparently like Hari Krishna's.
https://www.mediamatters.org/washington-post/cnn-repeats-smear-obama-supporters-creepy-and-cult

Here is a Politco article with some more: https://www.mediamatters.org/washington-post/cnn-repeats-smear-obama-supporters-creepy-and-cult

And this gem from the New York Times is just a cut above, comparing Obama's support not only to a cult but to Nixon, and deciding people don't want to vote for him because reasons.
https://www.nytimes.com/2008/02/11/opinion/11krugman.html?ex=1360386000&en=27226393f6769d99&ei=5124&partner=permalink&exprod=permalink

It's mad the way the corporate Democratic establishment save their real ire for any Democratic candidate they think might rock the boat a little bit, rather than aiming it where it should be aimed - at Republicans.

Foxtrol · 03-03-2020 9:47pm

Joe_ Public wrote: »

I mean, strewth, the link you provided says projected. Literally, half a dozen times...in the headline, in the lede, the main body. The link i posted is actual exit poll results. Anyway....moving on...

Projected isn't once mentioned in the blog post I referred to.

Do you know how headlines and live blogs in general work? Because they use projected in parts doesn't mean every post is projected.

Those are the exit poll results and I saw them repeated yesterday morning on TV.

NBC News Exit Poll Desk

3d ago / 8:57 PM EST
NBC News Exit Poll: Generational divide separates Biden, Sanders supporters
Joe Biden won today’s primary by amassing an overwhelming margin among the state’s African American voters. But black Democrats’ support for Biden is far from uniform: According to the NBC News Exit Poll, the former vice president faces a robust challenge from Sanders for the votes of the youngest generation of African Americans.

Biden’s support among African American voters was strongest among those aged 65 and over: He crushed Sanders with this group, 81 percent to 8 percent. But at each step down the generational ladder, Biden’s performance with blacks worsened and Sanders improved. Among black Democrats under age 30, Sanders came within 4 points of tying Biden.

hotmail.com · 03-03-2020 10:05pm

It's going to be difficult for people to criticise Trump's attitude to women if they support Biden, given his creepy behaviour towards young women.

sid waddell · 03-03-2020 10:50pm

Which Super Tuesday states have early voting? Texas does I know. Any others? You'd imagine early voting would favour Sanders, on the day only voting Biden.

Itssoeasy · 03-03-2020 10:58pm

sid waddell wrote: »

Which Super Tuesday states have early voting? Texas does I know. Any others? You'd imagine early voting would favour Sanders, on the day only voting Biden.

California I think. Texas and California are the two I've heard a lot about having early voting but there may be others/all of them but the only one I know of is California.

everlast75 · 03-03-2020 11:08pm

hotmail.com wrote: »

It's going to be difficult for people to criticise Trump's attitude to women if they support Biden, given his creepy behaviour towards young women.

How many women have accused Biden of rape?

How many marriages has Biden been through?

Has Biden been caught with a porn star?

Had Biden had an affair with a playboy bunny?

Ffs.

hotmail.com · 03-03-2020 11:22pm

everlast75 wrote: »

How many women have accused Biden of rape?

How many marriages has Biden been through?

Has Biden been caught with a porn star?

Had Biden had an affair with a playboy bunny?

Ffs.

The creepy behaviour was caught on camera. This isn't a comparison with Trump's deplorable attitude to women.

I have no doubt that you find Biden's behaviour equally reprehensible since you seem to get outraged about almost everything.

US Presidential Election 2020

Comments