Media: Rents at all-time high, supply all-time low - RTE

davindub · 27-08-2017 1:22am

maninasia wrote: »

I missed probably the most important current reason for lack of construction.and therefore lack of supply.

The capital gains tax exemption which runs to 2019 and has been extended in some cases to 2024.

The government has been driving this ridiculous run up in price by strongly encouraging developers to sit on their arse and do absolutely Nothing while the value of their assets increase yearly and they wait for pay day, whats another two or five years .

Interest to know why the government is enabling this.

Also there was a tax on land previously zoned as agri converted to development land, it was 80%, it was removed last year, the government implemented the de-ruralification policy and quashed plans to tax undeveloped land.

Ray Palmer · 27-08-2017 4:37pm

There is actually a quick affordable way to alleviate some of the problems and help other issues. Dublin suburbs are full of under used properties. We also have an issue with nursing homes and care workers. It would be easy enough to convert some of the houses for elderly people to downsize to and stay in their own communities. Freeing up well serviced family homes close to employment.

They did a bad job when they suggested this before but things have moved on and it could be done very well. The fact we have houses converted in creches, doctors offices etc... shows use of housing can easily change and expanded.

Most of the houses I live near have 1 or 2 occupants that use one bedroom but live in 3 beds with 2 reception rooms with garages. That is easily 1 two bed and 1 one bed spacious accommodation. A bit more work and it is a 2 bed and a 3 bed by extending over the garage and into the attic.

A fraction of the cost of building full new housing. Less cost expanding services as there is capacity in the areas.

27-08-2017 4:50pm

Ray Palmer wrote: »

There is actually a quick affordable way to alleviate some of the problems and help other issues. Dublin suburbs are full of under used properties. We also have an issue with nursing homes and care workers. It would be easy enough to convert some of the houses for elderly people to downsize to and stay in their own communities. Freeing up well serviced family homes close to employment.

They did a bad job when they suggested this before but things have moved on and it could be done very well. The fact we have houses converted in creches, doctors offices etc... shows use of housing can easily change and expanded.

Most of the houses I live near have 1 or 2 occupants that use one bedroom but live in 3 beds with 2 reception rooms with garages. That is easily 1 two bed and 1 one bed spacious accommodation. A bit more work and it is a 2 bed and a 3 bed by extending over the garage and into the attic.

A fraction of the cost of building full new housing. Less cost expanding services as there is capacity in the areas.

The vast majority don't want to leave their homes though and rightly so. These are the homes they have spent decades living in and are much more than just a house. They also may well have regular over night visits from family etc.

Aside from all that people like space, two of us in a 3 bedroomed house and to be honest it's too small for me, I'd be looking at a far far bigger house for my long term home.

Ray Palmer · 27-08-2017 5:15pm

Ali Tart Graphics wrote: »

The vast majority don't want to leave their homes though and rightly so. These are the homes they have spent decades living in and are much more than just a house. They also may well have regular over night visits from family etc.

Aside from all that people like space, two of us in a 3 bedroomed house and to be honest it's too small for me, I'd be looking at a far far bigger house for my long term home.

There are a lot of elderly people struggle to maintain their homes as is and have fixed incomes. They can also do this to move to get their own family to move it giving them extra benefits of having family close.

It won't be for everybody but enough to have an impact and could revitalise areas. People are talking about sustainable developments when we can make older areas more sustainable and mixed use.

We don't need all the 3 bed areas like we used to so we should change them. People often overlook the fact the property requirements have dramatically changed. There are a lot of relationships where the parents are split and the child moves between two places so you have a requirement for 2 two beds. This is sucking up property space.

quadrifoglio verde · 27-08-2017 8:54pm

mikemac2 wrote: »

As the docklands moves eastwards with new developments I hope they go higher but believe they will not

Citibank in North Wall Quay is 5 stories in a huge site , State Street on Sir John Roberson Quay is 7 stories on quite a small and tight site. I'm not sure what Capital Dock will be but it's nothing mind blowing

Oh but but we need to protect Georgian Dublin. Last I checks the docklands are full of brown field sites and as for high rise grab the Enterprise to Belfast, plenty of high rise up the road

If we really were keen on protecting Georgian Dublin Henrietta St wouldn't be the dilapidated kip that it is

gaius c · 27-08-2017 9:04pm

Mrs Shuttleworth wrote: »

I know there's another thread running on this, but it's completely impracticable and I know from first hand experience and the following has not been noted.

An elderly person going into a nursing home - that is not merely the end of the matter. They veer in and out of hospitals and their own home in spite of being formally admitted under Fair Deal and often can pass away quite quickly - literally a few months - after going into long term care. The house then becomes the subject of probate/sale so there isn't any real long term security of tenure for a tenant going in. Unless the Government plans that executors of elderly persons estates will also get screwed.

Other countries make it work. Why can't we!

There's over 20k empties in Dublin alone. Dealing with that will take a lot of pressure off the rental market.

maninasia · 28-08-2017 10:04pm

That is neither a quick nor easy way to generate more housing availability. I also highly doubt there are many empty properties unless they are completely dilapidated or other issues around them.
What Dublin needs is more housing.

frefrefre · 28-08-2017 11:01pm

maninasia wrote: »

I missed probably the most important current reason for lack of construction.and therefore lack of supply.

The capital gains tax exemption which runs to 2019 and has been extended in some cases to 2024.

The government has been driving this ridiculous run up in price by strongly encouraging developers to sit on their arse and do absolutely Nothing while the value of their assets increase yearly and they wait for pay day, whats another two or five years .

One of the things I really like about this forum, which I've only been on a short while really, is some of the sound advice and analysis by a lot of very good posters on here. With that in mind, would somebody please explain to me why the government would conspire to rig the market further by extending capital gains tax exemptions until 2024?
In light of our chronic supply issue, surely this is something akin to a scandal? Are they still just trying to repair the balance sheets and artificially keep prices rising? If anything I thought they might introduce some kind of levy on unused land to get construction moving!
We need units for people to rent and buy, at affordable prices and not at rip off rates, the government are actively going against this though and not a word is raised about it.

Villa05 · 29-08-2017 12:34am

frefrefre wrote:

would somebody please explain to me why the government would conspire to rig the market further by extending capital gains tax exemptions until 2024? In light of our chronic supply issue, surely this is something akin to a scandal? Are they still just trying to repair the balance sheets and artificially keep prices rising? If anything I thought they might introduce some kind of levy on unused land to get construction moving!.

In fairness every measure the government has taken has made the crisis worse and is consistent with their stated policy of driving prices up.

They have got away with it so they don't appear to be in any mood to revert to logical solutions.

Just saw on the indo a homeless child with cerebral palsy trying to make it up the steps of a b&b that he has been living in for the past 18 months. The campaign led by the child's parents has forced the gov to put in a ramp

With this the a&e crisis and children with buckled backs waiting for surgery we really have become a sick country. Is there anything that will shock us into some bit of action

maninasia · 29-08-2017 12:44am

Actually I can only find until 2021 according to the revenue site (budget 2014 added another year to the scheme).
www.revenue.ie.

quadrifoglio verde · 29-08-2017 7:13am

Villa05 wrote: »

In fairness every measure the government has taken has made the crisis worse and is consistent with their stated policy of driving prices up.

They have got away with it so they don't appear to be in any mood to revert to logical solutions.

Just saw on the indo a homeless child with cerebral palsy trying to make it up the steps of a b&b that he has been living in for the past 18 months. The campaign led by the child's parents has forced the gov to put in a ramp

With this the a&e crisis and children with buckled backs waiting for surgery we really have become a sick country. Is there anything that will shock us into some bit of action

The family in that case turned down suitable housing because it was too far from medical supports.
Now perhaps I'm mistaken in thinking that the government houses every child with cerebal palsy and their family in spitting distance of their medical supports. : confused:
I know if it was my child and I'd the choice to make between moving slightly away from medical supports so that my son didn't have to struggle to climb a flight of stairs with a frame or continue to let him suffer and live in a 1 bedroom room upstairs in a b and b, I'd be choosing the house that was suitable
I had quite a lot of sympathy for the family up until that point.

Henbabani · 29-08-2017 11:38am

Dr_Kolossus wrote: »

The_Conductor wrote: »

Petrol - Israel = EUR1.44/litre , Ireland = EUR1.35
Diesel - Israel = EUR1.32/litre , Ireland = EUR 1.22

As for food, clothing and sundry goods- Ireland is around 10% cheaper- however- this is way offset by 60% higher healthcare costs in Ireland, and over 250% higher prescription charges in Ireland- than in Israel
You win some, you loose some- Ireland is a bit cheaper for some things- significantly more expensive esp. for anything health related.

You have picked out only one aspect of the many costs of driving. Motor tax, periodic nct, vrt and more all subsidise the relatively low cost on fuel here in Ireland. I stand to be corrected, but I doubt that overall the cost of motoring in Ireland is cheaper than Israel.

Ireland is the land of stealth taxes. Move here and you will be in for a shock

yeah but you forgot one important thing - the minimum wage in Israel is exactly 6.26 euro, in Ireland it's 9.25, continue from here...

The_Conductor · 29-08-2017 11:51am

Henbabani wrote: »

yeah but you forgot one important thing - the minimum wage in Israel is exactly 6.26 euro, in Ireland it's 9.25, continue from here...

Honestly- you're really clutching at straws.
Yes- the minimum wage may be 50% higher here- however, its impossible to live on the Minimum wage here- anyone who is on the minimum wage is entitled to social welfare topups just to survive (FIS- Family Income Support would apply).

Ireland is an incredibly high cost economy- the only thing that is cheap here- is water- both the rain outside- and the water running through our taps- which, after a bit of a battle, we don't pay for. Anything else- you will pay through the nose for.

If you're pointing out the Irish minimum wage- and how its 50% higher than Israel- as some sort of indication that you'll have a better standard of living here- please disavow yourself of the notion- its not a good yardstick.

jamesthepeach · 29-08-2017 11:52am

The_Conductor wrote: »

Honestly- you're really clutching at straws.
Yes- the minimum wage may be 50% higher here- however, its impossible to live on the Minimum wage here- anyone who is on the minimum wage is entitled to social welfare topups just to survive (FIS- Family Income Support would apply).

Ireland is an incredibly high cost economy- the only thing that is cheap here- is water- both the rain outside- and the water running through our taps- which, after a bit of a battle, we don't pay for. Anything else- you will pay through the nose for.

If you're pointing out the Irish minimum wage- and how its 50% higher than Israel- as some sort of indication that you'll have a better standard of living here- please disavow yourself of the notion- its not a good yardstick.

Try buying bottled water in the shop here

Henbabani · 29-08-2017 1:13pm

The_Conductor wrote: »

Henbabani wrote: »

yeah but you forgot one important thing - the minimum wage in Israel is exactly 6.26 euro, in Ireland it's 9.25, continue from here...

Honestly- you're really clutching at straws.
Yes- the minimum wage may be 50% higher here- however, its impossible to live on the Minimum wage here- anyone who is on the minimum wage is entitled to social welfare topups just to survive (FIS- Family Income Support would apply).

Ireland is an incredibly high cost economy- the only thing that is cheap here- is water- both the rain outside- and the water running through our taps- which, after a bit of a battle, we don't pay for. Anything else- you will pay through the nose for.

If you're pointing out the Irish minimum wage- and how its 50% higher than Israel- as some sort of indication that you'll have a better standard of living here- please disavow yourself of the notion- its not a good yardstick.

im not living on cloud, i made and make a really good research on Ireland, im doubted if anyone who movei n to Dublin made more than one year research on the economy, where to live, costs of everything, wages and other stuff.
i still can say for sure Ireland is better than Israel.

FishOnABike · 29-08-2017 1:56pm

The_Conductor wrote: »

The underlying problem- feeding into all of this- is our historical parish pump politics- there is no-one looking at the bigger picture- and what is best of Ireland Inc- its all county level stuff- or worse. Our first-past-the-post electoral system feeds into all of this...........

While I'd agree that local clientism and parish pump stroke politics play a part in the mess that part and parcel of a lack of any integrated long term, national and regional development strategy we have a proportional representation single transferable vote electoral system.

It's debatable whether this PR-STV electoral system moderates the effect of an all or nothing first-past-the-post system or results in more jockeying for position among the candidates in trying to outdo each other pandering to the electorate trying to win votes.

Too many governments have been asleep at the wheel while this problem has been allowed to develop. The problem should have been identified well in advance looking at demographics, growth projections and strategic plans put in place to head off the crisis before it happened. Successive governments appear to be completely reactive in their response and incapable of looking past the next electoral cycle for fear of doing something that the opposition might gain the benefit of.

pilly · 29-08-2017 2:50pm

The_Conductor wrote: »

Honestly- you're really clutching at straws.
Yes- the minimum wage may be 50% higher here- however, its impossible to live on the Minimum wage here- anyone who is on the minimum wage is entitled to social welfare topups just to survive (FIS- Family Income Support would apply).

Ireland is an incredibly high cost economy- the only thing that is cheap here- is water- both the rain outside- and the water running through our taps- which, after a bit of a battle, we don't pay for. Anything else- you will pay through the nose for.

If you're pointing out the Irish minimum wage- and how its 50% higher than Israel- as some sort of indication that you'll have a better standard of living here- please disavow yourself of the notion- its not a good yardstick.

God almighty get off your high horse Conductor and don't be so sarky towards a person who's coming to our country to work and contribute to society.

Not everything here is incredibly expensive, you're wrong and extremely pessimistic. Food is extremely cheap here, as are clothes and lots of other things that I don't have time to think of right now.

But in the meantime, lay off. You're being extremely rude and patronising.

maninasia · 29-08-2017 3:47pm

Yeah food really is cheap in Ireland!
Clothes are cheao pretty much everywhere these days.
But as somebody who kiVes in East Asia I do find Ireland 3dpensive and costs have steadily ranked up over the last ten years or so.
Taxes are really high between income tax , VAT and fuel. Insurance costs too. Tolls not particularly cheap. Labour very expensive.

If you live outside Dublin the costs are reasonable for a house with a bit of land, you see a lot countries like Israel are densely populated so they don't really have access to cheap land or housing even in the hinterland.

Idbatterim · 29-08-2017 3:59pm

Honestly- you're really clutching at straws.
Yes- the minimum wage may be 50% higher here- however, its impossible to live on the Minimum wage here- anyone who is on the minimum wage is entitled to social welfare topups just to survive (FIS- Family Income Support would apply).

its may be very difficult / impossible in Dublin. it isnt outside of dublin...

jamesthepeach · 30-08-2017 7:55am

Back on topic though.

I was listening to the radio yesterday and they were actually talking about ways to ATTRACT all the properties that have left the market back into the rental market.

They didnt come up with anything worthwhile but at least it makes a change from trying to "FORCE" properties into a market where the owners don't actually want to be in it.

Makes a nice change to hear something like that tbh

The_Conductor · 30-08-2017 7:59am

Is there actually any measure of properties that were let- and have been removed from the market- and could potentially be returned to the market?

We know there are 70,000 fewer landlords registered with the RTB- than 5 years ago- I'd suggest that the vast majority of these have sold their properties- rather than repurposing them for airbnb- or holiday homes etc?

The opportunity cost of leaving a property vacant- is high- however, few people have the energy/skills/wherewithall to run an airbnb unit- its a lot more labour intensive than a regular letting?

I think the numbers are probably a lot lower than most people imagine- but I don't have any hard data- does anyone else?

pilly · 30-08-2017 2:41pm

jamesthepeach wrote: »

Back on topic though.

I was listening to the radio yesterday and they were actually talking about ways to ATTRACT all the properties that have left the market back into the rental market.

They didnt come up with anything worthwhile but at least it makes a change from trying to "FORCE" properties into a market where the owners don't actually want to be in it.

Makes a nice change to hear something like that tbh

The ONLY way LL's are going to be attracted into the market is to reduce the taxes. It's absolute madness that you've to pay the top rate of tax plus USC and PRSI on rental income.

jamesthepeach · 30-08-2017 2:47pm

pilly wrote: »

The ONLY way LL's are going to be attracted into the market is to reduce the taxes. It's absolute madness that you've to pay the top rate of tax plus USC and PRSI on rental income.

And remove the rent caps. And garauntee no more interference in the market.
And facilitate fast evictions.
And make an agreed lease enforceable in full by both parties.

pilly · 30-08-2017 2:51pm

jamesthepeach wrote: »

And remove the rent caps. And garauntee no more interference in the market.
And facilitate fast evictions.
And make an agreed lease enforceable in full by both parties.

Agreed but none of that would bring me back to the market whilst the tax is still so high.

jamesthepeach · 30-08-2017 2:57pm

pilly wrote: »

Agreed but none of that would bring me back to the market whilst the tax is still so high.

Agreed, me neither, but it's about a lot more than tax for me as well.

The_Conductor · 30-08-2017 3:23pm

jamesthepeach wrote: »

And remove the rent caps. And garauntee no more interference in the market.
And facilitate fast evictions.
And make an agreed lease enforceable in full by both parties.

My jaw just hit the floor- did you see Threshold's pre-budget submission to the government? There is a whole section in it fighting the corner of small landlords- and measures that should be taken to encourage them back into the market........... From Threshold- of all people.........

tinkerbell · 30-08-2017 3:48pm

The_Conductor wrote: »

My jaw just hit the floor- did you see Threshold's pre-budget submission to the government? There is a whole section in it fighting the corner of small landlords- and measures that should be taken to encourage them back into the market........... From Threshold- of all people.........

The same threshold that advise people to overhold? LOL.

DubCount · 30-08-2017 4:01pm

The_Conductor wrote: »

My jaw just hit the floor- did you see Threshold's pre-budget submission to the government? There is a whole section in it fighting the corner of small landlords- and measures that should be taken to encourage them back into the market........... From Threshold- of all people.........

Dont get over excited. They also want a defense of "hardship" against evictions - i.e. if a tenant is going to be homeless or under a financial burden if evicted, a landlord cant evict them.

pilly · 30-08-2017 4:39pm

The_Conductor wrote: »

My jaw just hit the floor- did you see Threshold's pre-budget submission to the government? There is a whole section in it fighting the corner of small landlords- and measures that should be taken to encourage them back into the market........... From Threshold- of all people.........

Where did you see this, any link?

Michael D Not Higgins · 30-08-2017 4:47pm

pilly wrote: »

Where did you see this, any link?

https://www.threshold.ie/download/pdf/20170822164450.pdf

maninasia · 30-08-2017 5:20pm

The problem is the lack of.houses and apartments , it's nonsense to think that swithicng between sales or rentals of the same properties will make any difference.

Too many people , not enough housing.

Wesser · 12-09-2017 9:31pm

https://touch.daft.ie/dublin/apartments-for-rent/grand-canal-dock/grand-canal-square-grand-canal-dock-dublin-1707869

Check out this one bed place for 3300 a month !!! For a one bed!!! Fixtures and fittings in it look really cheap. Crazy stuff!!! Who the hell has 3300 a month!!!

Cuddlesworth · 13-09-2017 9:41am

Wesser wrote: »

https://touch.daft.ie/dublin/apartments-for-rent/grand-canal-dock/grand-canal-square-grand-canal-dock-dublin-1707869

Check out this one bed place for 3300 a month !!! For a one bed!!! Fixtures and fittings in it look really cheap. Crazy stuff!!! Who the hell has 3300 a month!!!

Companies who have a person working 4-5 days a week and flying them home at the weekend. 36k a year to a finance company is simply a blip on the expense account.

pilly · 13-09-2017 10:04am

Wesser wrote: »

https://touch.daft.ie/dublin/apartments-for-rent/grand-canal-dock/grand-canal-square-grand-canal-dock-dublin-1707869

Check out this one bed place for 3300 a month !!! For a one bed!!! Fixtures and fittings in it look really cheap. Crazy stuff!!! Who the hell has 3300 a month!!!

It's a ridiculous price but I've been inside one of those and they are a very high standard of finish. Some of the balconies get great sunshine too. Depends on where it's located.

zell12 · 06-05-2018 10:31am

Latest in 2018: Rents reach all-time high nationwide

Average rent nationwide are €1261pm
This is €232pm more than the highest level reached in 2008.

Dublin rents are now €1875pm
This is 30% higher than 2008.

The_Conductor · 06-05-2018 10:48am

zell12 wrote: »

Latest in 2018: Rents reach all-time high nationwide

Average rent nationwide are €1261pm
This is €232pm more than the highest level reached in 2008.

Dublin rents are now €1875pm
This is 30% higher than 2008.

Note- this is the rent levels for new tenancies- and in a Dublin context- over 70% of the tenancies registered with the RTB are for properties which have not had tenancies registered against them previously (including several entire apartment blocks and a whole estate in Blanchardstown). I.e. the rent level- is predominantly for new units. No figures on the numbers of properties which are being removed from the rental market. Also- no report on the rent levels for pre-existing tenancies- though a DAFT commentary suggests their rent increases are averaging 1.7-1.8% (i.e. not all landlords are applying the 4% per annum rent increase that they are entitled to- in the RTBs)

The rent levels being discussed- are for new- not pre-existing- tenancies. This salient point is overlooked by a lot of commentators.

4ensic15 · 06-05-2018 2:01pm

The_Conductor wrote: »

The rent levels being discussed- are for new- not pre-existing- tenancies. This salient point is overlooked by a lot of commentators.

It may not meany every tenant or tenacy is paying the rent but it clearly illustrates that the answer to the question "if I was looking to rent tomorrow, what could I expect to have to pay" is showing an ever higher sum. The rent control was merely an attempt to mask the symptoms and is making things worse for a significant number of tenants.

murphaph · 06-05-2018 2:12pm

4ensic15 wrote: »

It may not meany every tenant or tenacy is paying the rent but it clearly illustrates that the answer to the question "if I was looking to rent tomorrow, what could I expect to have to pay" is showing an ever higher sum. The rent control was merely an attempt to mask the symptoms and is making things worse for a significant number of tenants.

It is. I was lucky that my tenants who were paying way below market rate left voluntarily in February and I could (quite legally IMO) increase the rent significantly to market rate (in my case the previous tenants were originally on rent supplement, then forced into RAS and the lease explicitly stated that they only had a 2 bed need and the council always insisted on paying no more than the 2 bed rate (all documented) so with the new tenancy I was able to claim a significant improvement in the accommodation offered (3 bed) compared to previously. I will never allow myself to be caught with a rent below the absolute maximum allowed from now on. This is the direct result of the RPZ legislation. Should never have included new tenancies in rent control. That was the step too far.

lcwill · 06-05-2018 7:25pm

I'm increasing 4% a year on my properties until the RPZ is removed or I get to market rates.

I've told my agent just to automate it so I don't have to remember to tell them every year.

Then I'll go back to my previous approach of only increasing sitting tenants' rent every four years or so, and being happy to leave rent below market rates in order to retain good tenants.

Feel a bit bad about it, but not bad enough to risk reducing the value of my investments because of a terrible policy.

4ensic15 · 06-05-2018 7:26pm

lcwill wrote: »

I've told my agent just to automate it so I don't have to remember to tell them every year.

How do you automate it?

Eric Cartman · 06-05-2018 7:29pm

4ensic15 wrote: »

How do you automate it?

the assistant in the estate agent creates a re-occuring calendar event for the renewal date every year and sends the tenants a letter which he/she has templated from the previous year, then the tenants pay more money.

4ensic15 · 06-05-2018 7:30pm

Eric Cartman wrote: »

the assistant in the estate agent creates a re-occuring calendar event for the renewal date every year and sends the tenants a letter which he/she has templated from the previous year, then the tenants pay more money.

Don't the tenants have to be given comparators?

GGTrek · 06-05-2018 7:42pm

4ensic15 wrote: »

Eric Cartman wrote: »

the assistant in the estate agent creates a re-occuring calendar event for the renewal date every year and sends the tenants a letter which he/she has templated from the previous year, then the tenants pay more money.

Don't the tenants have to be given comparators?

They do, it is a major pain in the a... For the two long term tenants I have still got I loose almost a full day to prepare a 4% notice of rent increase to value below market with the three comparators that respects the massive amount of regulation (8 pages in double copy) and various RTB tribunals niceties. It has become a joke on landlords. All my time is unpaid, then these two last tenants had the silliness to ask why they both received section 34(b) termination notices for next year. I just told them: stupid Irish politicians are the cause!

belfe · 07-05-2018 12:55pm

lcwill wrote: »

I'm increasing 4% a year on my properties until the RPZ is removed or I get to market rates.

I've told my agent just to automate it so I don't have to remember to tell them every year.

Then I'll go back to my previous approach of only increasing sitting tenants' rent every four years or so, and being happy to leave rent below market rates in order to retain good tenants.

Feel a bit bad about it, but not bad enough to risk reducing the value of my investments because of a terrible policy.

Then, rents are increasing like they were increasing before the RPZ, but now the goverment is somehow responsible?

Let's see what happen in a couple of years. I know that nobody think about it on the peak, but many companies are complaining about shortage of skilled workers, I know the IT case, Dublin was the most attractive european city for an IT worker when I came in... but is not anymore. People just don't want to come and pay the irrational rents, and if they want to pay an irrational rent for living in a place with people and cultural offer, very common choice for young people, they go to the big cities like London or Paris, not to Dublin. When peak is over and this is a problem, please don't blame the government about it. They tried to regulate it and they failed, but the prices are 100% controlled by the landlords in this market.

The Student · 07-05-2018 12:59pm

belfe wrote: »

Then, rents are increasing like they were increasing before the RPZ, but now the goverment is somehow responsible?

Let's see what happen in a couple of years. I know that nobody think about it on the peak, but many companies are complaining about shortage of skilled workers, I know the IT case, Dublin was the most attractive european city for an IT worker when I came in... but is not anymore. People just don't want to come and pay the irrational rents, and if they want to pay an irrational rent for living in a place with people and cultural offer, very common choice for young people, they go to the big cities like London or Paris, not to Dublin. When peak is over and this is a problem, please don't blame the government about it. They tried to regulate it and they failed, but the prices are 100% controlled by the landlords in this market.

All the govt have to do is extend the rent a room scheme to landlords and the rents will fall. The higher the tax the higher rents will go.

Villa05 · 07-05-2018 1:43pm

The Student wrote:

All the govt have to do is extend the rent a room scheme to landlords and the rents will fall. The higher the tax the higher rents will go.

Rents will not fall when supply is the issue.
Ref: tax

Should be a standard rate of tax on all rental income. We currently have a situation where one landlord is paying over 50% and others are paying close to 0% set a rate in the middle and create an equal competitive market.

To counter balance there should be a property tax that covers the cost of sustaining infrastructure and services to homeowners

alias no.9 · 07-05-2018 11:09pm

4ensic15 wrote: »

It may not meany every tenant or tenacy is paying the rent but it clearly illustrates that the answer to the question "if I was looking to rent tomorrow, what could I expect to have to pay" is showing an ever higher sum. The rent control was merely an attempt to mask the symptoms and is making things worse for a significant number of tenants.

The high rent being asked for new units to the market is a symptom of rent control. Any new unit to the rental market in an RPZ is asking top dollar because future rents will be tied to the initial rent, it's the only time it can be priced to a market rate.

In the instance that landlords have a property to let and are tied at a below market rent, they're not advertising it on Daft or the like, it's not practical to deal with the volume of inquiries, it's all gone to word of mouth and personal networks so there's an artificial scarcity on the open market. As a result of this, landlords bringing new properties to the market as well as the cohort of landlords prepared to flout the RPZ legislation are getting away with asking for even higher rents than they could in the instance of all landlords being allowed move to a general market rent when re-letting properties.

The RPZ legislation has been reasonably good for sitting tenants as long as the landlords are not exiting the market. It's been good for the Landlords who were squeezing the last drop from their tenants prior to introduction. Anybody needing to find a new place has been thrown under the bus.

maninasia · 08-05-2018 4:47am

It's funny that one lad is complaining that it takes him a WHOLE day's work to get 4% extra for the year income. He can do this every year for a 4% increase guaranteed and it's somehow a pain in the arse.

Graces7 · 08-05-2018 5:01am

tinkerbell wrote: »

The same threshold that advise people to overhold? LOL.

In all my years renting Threshold have never given such advice ; quite the contrary.

The_Conductor · 08-05-2018 9:16am

maninasia wrote: »

It's funny that one lad is complaining that it takes him a WHOLE day's work to get 4% extra for the year income. He can do this every year for a 4% increase guaranteed and it's somehow a pain in the arse.

Its probably not his day job- he probably has to take time out from whatever he normally does- to get his three comparators, do the paperwork, submit the notices etc etc. And- it doesn't how long or how much trouble it is for a landlord to do anything- it isn't an allowable cost- if he/she was running any other business- their time could be enumerated and charged to the business.

I sort of like the idea higher up in this thread- where someone suggested expanding the rent-a-room scheme to include small scale landlords. They could have a gross income of 14k from a unit- and not have any taxable income- but once they go over this threshold- its all taxable.

We already have 'rent-contol' (or rent-assurance as the Minister likes to call it). Having the reciprochal- income assurance for a small scale landlord- where the 14k limit (I imagine it would be linked to the region the property is in- though this may be too difficult to administer)- would mean rents would not increase above this 14k for those with one unit- perhaps add 7k per unit there-after- so if a landlord had 2 units he could earn 21k, 3 units 28k- its progressively dragging the average down- and it would encourage someone with a string of units to divest of most of them- perhaps keep a small core- that they could keep a tax free rental income from (say 35k from 4- sounds reasonable)...........

I'd also strongly advocate abolishing debt costs as an allowable cost for tax reasons- for absolutely everyone- looking at the new rules in the US- and expanding them further- so no-one, no business- can use debt to shelter income from tax. If you want to borrow money to buy houses or apartments- off you go- but you're not going to shelter the income with the debt that you've just taken on. This whole notion of the cost of debt being tax deductible- for anyone- doesn't matter what the business is- for anyone at all- is cat- and should be abolished as soon as humanely possible. If businesses can't afford the cost of carrying debt- well, perhaps they shouldn't borrow at the outset- and the manner in which debt is being abused by businesses- has been well reported on by most of the main economic media- The Economist have at least 1 issue annually addressing it.

We can't have one rule applicable to one group of people- or businesses- and another rule applicable to others...........

Media: Rents at all-time high, supply all-time low - RTE

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