Advertisement
If you have a new account but are having problems posting or verifying your account, please email us on hello@boards.ie for help. Thanks :)
Hello all! Please ensure that you are posting a new thread or question in the appropriate forum. The Feedback forum is overwhelmed with questions that are having to be moved elsewhere. If you need help to verify your account contact hello@boards.ie
Hi all,
Vanilla are planning an update to the site on April 24th (next Wednesday). It is a major PHP8 update which is expected to boost performance across the site. The site will be down from 7pm and it is expected to take about an hour to complete. We appreciate your patience during the update.
Thanks all.

Garage carried out unauthorised work - what are my rights?

Options
2

Comments

  • Options
    #32
    Peregrinus
    Registered Users Posts: 26,056 ✭✭✭✭Peregrinus


    Deleted User wrote: »
    That's fine for them. Why does it mean that a garage should follow the same model?
    They'd have every old banger that hadn't run in years brought in to have a look at.

    The OP asked them 'to identify and price' the problem. Identifying has value/cost, requires skill, time, equipment, and is time that can't be used for something else.
    I'm not saying that other garages have to follow the model. I'm saying that in my experience they routinely do, and the reasons why they might choose to do this - in short, business development and good customer relations - are fairly obvious.
    Deleted User wrote: »
    Edit: How fungible? is that advice- you can go to another mechanic and say x,y,z, is wrong and can you fix it. Would another solicitor take your free advice and knock some of the price off as someone else had already done the analysis?
    I doubt it.
    No, he wouldn't. Solicitor B doesn't know solicitor A's analysis; just that solicitor A suggested X course of action at Y cost. Solicitor B can't form an opinion about either the suggested course of action or the cost without doing his own analysis. Which is why solicitor A doesn't fear that, in doing what he does, he is making a free gift to solicitor B.

    And something similar is going on with the garage. The garage knows that poeple bring in their car because they want to keep it on the road. They may wince when they hear the cost but, nine times out of ten, they go ahead and commission work to be done. Which is why the investment of time and effort in giving the estimate makes sense for the garage. If they refuse, they will lose valuable paying jobs to other garages who are willing to make this investment, and so secure paying custom.


  • Options
    #33
    Peregrinus
    Registered Users Posts: 26,056 ✭✭✭✭Peregrinus


    Sleeper12 wrote: »
    Peats of Parnell Street went out of business for this very reason. People went in and got advice you couldn't get anywhere else in Dublin then they went home and sourced everything from the Internet cheaper.

    As a tradesman I think posters are a little confused on the way that we charge. A plumber might go out and quote for a whole new bathroom free of charge BUT call someone out to "look at the boiler it's a different matter. He gives a price for repair or replace but if you decide to do neither then you will usually get hit with a 75 euro call out fee. I'm in shower repair. I don't go out to" look". I go out to repair or replace. If they decide not to go ahead after I have "looked" then they will pay 75 euros for my time, equipment and expertise
    Yeah, but the analogy for the call-out fee in this situation is the cost of having the car collected and towed to the garage, which I have already said I expect the garage to charge for.


  • Options
    #34
    _Brian
    Registered Users Posts: 18,475 ✭✭✭✭_Brian


    Garages are busy, having A mechanic spending a few hours looking over a car for NCT is going to cost. Plus how can he check how the engine runs without the ecu fixed.

    My local garage charges €50 to run a basic diagnostic test on a car if your not a regular customer.

    If they are a good garage and you’d like to keep using their services I’d say talk to them about the miscommunication and see what can be worked out.


  • Options
    #35
    Peregrinus
    Registered Users Posts: 26,056 ✭✭✭✭Peregrinus


    listermint wrote: »
    It doesn't say they didn't sanction any repairs after the ECU was found to be bad and given a price.it says they asked if there was anything else wrong.
    The OP does say that:
    Marloag2020 wrote: »
    . . . Just wondering what my rights are in this situation. I know that they couldn't have misunderstood what I said over the phone, the secretary today even had written in her notes to do no work!


  • Options
    #36
    listermint
    Registered Users Posts: 33,616 ✭✭✭✭listermint


    Peregrinus wrote: »
    I'm not saying that other garages have to follow the model. I'm saying that in my experience they routinely do, and the reasons why they might choose to do this - in short, business development and good customer relations - are fairly obvious.


    No, he wouldn't. Solicitor B doesn't know solicitor A's analysis; just that solicitor A suggested X course of action at Y cost. Solicitor B can't form an opinion about either the suggested course of action or the cost without doing his own analysis. Which is why solicitor A doesn't fear that, in doing what he does, he is making a free gift to solicitor B.

    And something similar is going on with the garage. The garage knows that poeple bring in their car because they want to keep it on the road. They may wince when they hear the cost but, nine times out of ten, they go ahead and commission work to be done. Which is why the investment of time and effort in giving the estimate makes sense for the garage. If they refuse, they will lose valuable paying jobs to other garages who are willing to make this investment, and so secure paying custom.

    Solicitors make their money off ancillary costs and admin fees and lookup fees etc etc


    Garages make money off labour no garage can be writing off labour costs all over the place. Diagnostics is a labour costs more so with electrical issues.


  • Advertisement
  • Options
    #37
    listermint
    Registered Users Posts: 33,616 ✭✭✭✭listermint


    Peregrinus wrote: »
    The OP does say that:

    As per original conversation not the follow up one



    For clarity the devil's in the details isn't it.


  • Options
    #38
    Dav010
    Registered Users Posts: 14,003 ✭✭✭✭Dav010


    listermint wrote: »
    Solicitors make their money off ancillary costs and admin fees and lookup fees etc etc


    Garages make money off labour no garage can be writing off labour costs all over the place. Diagnostics is a labour costs more so with electrical issues.

    I suspect many people’s view is that diagnosis costs the garage nothing but time to do, so should not incur a charge. You could argue that solicitors researching a point of law for a client costs nothing but time, applying your logic, the client should not be billed for a Solicitors time, of course that is not the reality.

    I wonder did the op get a quote for the tow to the garage (if not already paid), cost of time in the garage (excluding repair) cost of tow to the scrap yard/home etc? Or were you just planning to abandon the car op?


  • Options
    #39
    Sleeper12
    Registered Users Posts: 16,878 ✭✭✭✭Sleeper12


    Peregrinus wrote: »
    Yeah, but the analogy for the call-out fee in this situation is the cost of having the car collected and towed to the garage, which I have already said I expect the garage to charge for.




    Main dealers charge for the use of their very expensive diagnostic equipment & software & the time involved. Maybe someone will say I'm wrong but I have never heard of a main dealer providing this service for free. I don't even know if OP went to a main dealer or not, I'm just saying that I would not expect this work to be carried out for free. I'm pretty sure I paid close to 100 euro for this very service about ten years ago in the Jeep main dealers in Ringsend. I then brought the jeep to my own mechanic with the results & he did the work required. Why would anyone in their right mind provide this service for free?


  • Options
    #40
    Dav010
    Registered Users Posts: 14,003 ✭✭✭✭Dav010


    Sleeper12 wrote: »
    Main dealers charge for the use of their very expensive diagnostic equipment & software & the time involved. Maybe someone will say I'm wrong but I have never heard of a main dealer providing this service for free. I don't even know if OP went to a main dealer or not, I'm just saying that I would not expect this work to be carried out for free. I'm pretty sure I paid close to 100 euro for this very service about ten years ago in the Jeep main dealers in Ringsend. I then brought the jeep to my own mechanic with the results & he did the work required. Why would anyone in their right mind provide this service for free?

    Close friend is an independent mechanic, he has to have 2 diagnostic units, he charges for their use, and he’s out the door busy.


  • Options
    #41
    Peregrinus
    Registered Users Posts: 26,056 ✭✭✭✭Peregrinus


    Sleeper12 wrote: »
    Main dealers charge for the use of their very expensive diagnostic equipment & software & the time involved. Maybe someone will say I'm wrong but I have never heard of a main dealer providing this service for free. I don't even know if OP went to a main dealer or not, I'm just saying that I would not expect this work to be carried out for free. I'm pretty sure I paid close to 100 euro for this very service about ten years ago in the Jeep main dealers in Ringsend. I then brought the jeep to my own mechanic with the results & he did the work required. Why would anyone in their right mind provide this service for free?
    On a nitpick, the OP says he went to his "local garage". Possibly they are a main dealer but, if so, I'd expect him to have mentioned this.

    But, on the main question, why wouol anybody spend their time, and use their expensive diagnostic equipment, to provide a free quote? For the reason already given - the free quote mostly generates paid, profitable work, and if you don't provide free quotes you'll lose paid, profitable work to competitors who do.


  • Advertisement
  • Options
    #42
    GreeBo
    Registered Users Posts: 27,033 ✭✭✭✭GreeBo


    listermint wrote: »
    As per original conversation not the follow up one



    For clarity the devil's in the details isn't it.

    Nowhere did the OP say to carry out repairs to the ECU, they asked what else needed to be repaired.

    Its some stretch to assume asking about other issues means "go ahead and charge me over 300 quid to fix something"


  • Options
    #43
    Sleeper12
    Registered Users Posts: 16,878 ✭✭✭✭Sleeper12


    Peregrinus wrote: »
    On a nitpick, the OP says he went to his "local garage". Possibly they are a main dealer but, if so, I'd expect him to have mentioned this.

    But, on the main question, why wouol anybody spend their time, and use their expensive diagnostic equipment, to provide a free quote? For the reason already given - the free quote mostly generates paid, profitable work, and if you don't provide free quotes you'll lose paid, profitable work to competitors who do.


    I disagree. Using your expensive equipment, software & time to tell someone what is wrong with their car & have them go to cash in hand Harry up the lane way is a foolish thing to do & as I already pointed out this is the exact reason Peats Of Parnell Street went out of business. All you have to do is read the posts here & you'll realize that give something for free & the car owner places no value on it.


  • Options
    #44
    Dav010
    Registered Users Posts: 14,003 ✭✭✭✭Dav010


    Peregrinus wrote: »
    On a nitpick, the OP says he went to his "local garage". Possibly they are a main dealer but, if so, I'd expect him to have mentioned this.

    But, on the main question, why wouol anybody spend their time, and use their expensive diagnostic equipment, to provide a free quote? For the reason already given - the free quote mostly generates paid, profitable work, and if you don't provide free quotes you'll lose paid, profitable work to competitors who do.

    You are applying your need to do this, to other businesses. Most businesses charge for their labour to cover the costs of doing business. If you have to provide your labour free to get business, so be it, most don’t.


  • Options
    #45
    runawaybishop
    Registered Users Posts: 9,500 ✭✭✭runawaybishop


    Dav010 wrote: »
    You are applying your need to do this, to other businesses. Most businesses charge for their labour to cover costs.

    . I called over immediately to be met with a bill for 380(not 250!!) euro for the repair, which I didn't ask to be carried out.

    ^^ no mention of being charged for diagnostics, which not all garages charge for. This thread won't go anywhere until the op speaks to the garage and lets us know.


  • Options
    #46
    listermint
    Registered Users Posts: 33,616 ✭✭✭✭listermint


    Be interested to hear the garages side of the conversation.

    Often these things are coloured in certain favours when internet outrage is sought.


  • Options
    #47
    Marloag2020
    Registered Users Posts: 6 ✭Marloag2020


    JayZeus wrote: »
    Seems daft to be questioning that fee to be fair. For an ECU fault which caused the car to break down, that’s very reasonable. If it has the car driving again, it can be put in for the NCT and then the OP will know what it needs to pass, assuming it fails. The unrealistic expectations of some people is crazy. “Speculate your time and capital investment in premises, training and diagnostic equipment to tell me what’s wrong with my car, but don’t rectify what’s caused it to break down and leave me stranded”. Why waste their time or your own if you expect to tie their hands like that?

    As for people expecting them to inspect a 15 year old high mileage car without having to at least get it running? Get real.

    Cheers for the reply, I probably didn't make the problem itself clear enough in the original post.

    I have already paid 40 euro for the garage collecting the car, and had no problem in doing so.

    On top of this, a lot of posters seem caught up on wether I should be charged for diagnostics. I'm not disputing that at all - I would have paid the garage for the time they spent looking into the problems with the car.

    The problem, and my whole reason in creating this thread, is that I never asked the garage to carry out the repair to the computer. In fact, I specifically asked them NOT to carry out any repairs, and to just see if there was any other problems with the car first (which I was confident there was). The fact that i was charged 380 and not 300 is beside the point really.


    Again, the problem here is not paying the garage for the work I asked them to do, it's paying them for the work I didnt ask them to do.


  • Options
    #48
    Dav010
    Registered Users Posts: 14,003 ✭✭✭✭Dav010


    runawaybishop wrote: »
    . I called over immediately to be met with a bill for 380(not 250!!) euro for the repair, which I didn't ask to be carried out.

    ^^ no mention of being charged for diagnostics, which not all garages charge for. This thread won't go anywhere until the op speaks to the garage and lets us know.

    Agreed, and I’d be interested if the op has got a quote to remove unrepaired car.


  • Options
    #49
    Sleeper12
    Registered Users Posts: 16,878 ✭✭✭✭Sleeper12


    listermint wrote: »
    Be interested to hear the garages side of the conversation.

    Often these things are coloured in certain favours when internet outrage is sought.


    Agreed


    I'm an idiot when it comes to cars but if garage told me computer repair is 250 & I then instructed them to check what else is wrong I would assume that the computer needs to be repaired before they can check for other faults. I would wonder how much of the charges are for towing the car in the first place.. Towing in Dublin is 120 to 150 as far as I know


  • Options
    #50
    Dav010
    Registered Users Posts: 14,003 ✭✭✭✭Dav010


    Marloag2020 wrote: »
    Cheers for the reply, I probably didn't make the problem itself clear enough in the original post.

    I have already paid 40 euro for the garage collecting the car, and had no problem in doing so.

    On top of this, a lot of posters seem caught up on wether I should be charged for diagnostics. I'm not disputing that at all - I would have paid the garage for the time they spent looking into the problems with the car.

    The problem, and my whole reason in creating this thread, is that I never asked the garage to carry out the repair to the computer. In fact, I specifically asked them NOT to carry out any repairs, and to just see if there was any other problems with the car first (which I was confident there was). The fact that i was charged 380 and not 300 is beside the point really.


    Again, the problem here is not paying the garage for the work I asked them to do, it's paying them for the work I didnt ask them to do.

    If you didnt want repairs, I assume you immediately started getting quotes to remove car?


  • Options
    #51
    Sleeper12
    Registered Users Posts: 16,878 ✭✭✭✭Sleeper12


    Marloag2020 wrote: »
    Cheers for the reply, I probably didn't make the problem itself clear enough in the original post.

    I have already paid 40 euro for the garage collecting the car, and had no problem in doing so.

    On top of this, a lot of posters seem caught up on wether I should be charged for diagnostics. I'm not disputing that at all - I would have paid the garage for the time they spent looking into the problems with the car.

    The problem, and my whole reason in creating this thread, is that I never asked the garage to carry out the repair to the computer. In fact, I specifically asked them NOT to carry out any repairs, and to just see if there was any other problems with the car first (which I was confident there was). The fact that i was charged 380 and not 300 is beside the point really.


    Again, the problem here is not paying the garage for the work I asked them to do, it's paying them for the work I didnt ask them to do.




    How do they diagnose without repairing the computer first. They need the computer working to diagnose the car & to fault find as far as I know.


  • Advertisement
  • Options
    #52
    Marloag2020
    Registered Users Posts: 6 ✭Marloag2020


    Peregrinus wrote: »
    Not my car. But, FWIW, if they were going to make a charge for estimating the cost of repairs, I'd expect them to make that clear before they estimated the cost of repairs.


    This may be where the error arose, since according to the OP it was only after he "asked for the garage to check for any other problems with the car" that they went ahead and repaired the onboard computer. So maybe someone thought that he understood that checking for other problems would require the computer to be repaired, and this was an implicit instruction to go ahead and repair the computer.

    If so, the garage is on weak grounds because, again according to the OP, he explicitly told them not to do any work, and the garage's own notes confirm this. So possibly there's a breakdown in communications between whoever the OP spoke to on the phone and whoever actually does repair works on vehicles. If so, the OP is not responsible for that breakdown.

    1. I didn't ask them for a quote on looking at the car. Would have had no problem paying this as it would have been (reasonably) cheap.

    2. That's a possible scenario. A few posters have talked about how its crazy to think that they could have identified other problems with the car without fixing the onboard computer. That may be true, but regardless no one made that clear to me. On both phone calls I specifically said to not do any work, and to see if there's other problems (which, to be clear, I would have had no problem paying for).
    If the case was that the computer HAD to be repaired before looking for other problems, I feel it should have been made clear to me that this was the case. Had it been, I never would have agreed to pay to fix the computer and would have scraped the car.


  • Options
    #53
    Marloag2020
    Registered Users Posts: 6 ✭Marloag2020


    Dav010 wrote: »
    If you didnt want repairs, I assume you immediately started getting quotes to remove car?

    I asked them to see what was wrong with the car. It may have been naive/stupid of me to assume that they could do this without fixing the computer, but that was never even mentioned to me over the phone when I asked the garage to look for other problems but no carry out any repairs.

    Why would have I started getting quotes to remove the car at that stage? I was waiting for the garage to get back to me with an estimate at making the car NCT ready before doing anything.


  • Options
    #54
    listermint
    Registered Users Posts: 33,616 ✭✭✭✭listermint


    Marloag2020 wrote: »
    I asked them to see what was wrong with the car. It may have been naive/stupid of me to assume that they could do this without fixing the computer, but that was never even mentioned to me over the phone when I asked the garage to look for other problems but no carry out any repairs.

    Why would have I started getting quotes to remove the car at that stage? I was waiting for the garage to get back to me with an estimate at making the car NCT ready before doing anything.

    You have i presume a running car now for the reasonable sum of 380 Euro ?

    Whats the current problem.

    If lets say its just 380 and you are fine will this thread be for noting ?


  • Options
    #55
    meeeeh
    Registered Users Posts: 11,624 ✭✭✭✭meeeeh


    I don't know what rights OP has but garage shouldn't do the work without OP agreeing to it. All you get from that is hassle. Customer might not have money to pay the bill and if computer needed to be fixed to find out other issues that should be pointed out.

    That being said diagnostic equipment is not cheap and neither is labour and it's perfectly reasonable to charge for it. I wonder how many here would accept not being paid for the time they spend diagnosing the problem at work and just being paid for repairing the problem.


  • Options
    #56
    Marloag2020
    Registered Users Posts: 6 ✭Marloag2020


    listermint wrote: »
    You have i presume a running car now for the reasonable sum of 380 Euro ?

    Whats the current problem.

    If lets say its just 380 and you are fine will this thread be for noting ?

    Yes, I have a running car for 380 euro. However, as stated its NCT is up this week and there is an extremely high chance of there being more problems with the car. The garage are getting back to me today with an estimate for these problems.

    I know absolutely nothing about cars (just a college student) but I would guess that the total bill, if I wanted to get the car repaired fully, would be more than 380 euro.


  • Options
    #57
    Sleeper12
    Registered Users Posts: 16,878 ✭✭✭✭Sleeper12


    meeeeh wrote: »
    I don't know what rights OP has but garage shouldn't do the work without OP agreeing to it. All you get from that is hassle. Customer might not have money to pay the bill and if computer needed to be fixed to find out other issues that should be pointed out.

    That being said diagnostic equipment is not cheap and neither is labour and it's perfectly reasonable to charge for it. I wonder how many here would accept not being paid for the time they spend diagnosing the problem at work and just being paid for repairing the problem.


    I'm not aiming this at OP but sometimes client hears what they want to hear. I'm in shower repair & I give out set advice for different issues. Same advice word for word, several times per day for decades. I still get some clients claim that I said things that I never said or that I didn't tell them something when I did. I'm not claiming my memory is perfect but my replys are set replies. They are like a mantra. So much so that I can say no I didn't say that or yes I did say that.



    Again I'm not having a pop at OP but we only ever get one side of the story here. I'd love to hear the garage owners side of the conversation. Again that's not to say OP is wrong. I wasn't there & I don't know


  • Options
    #58
    meeeeh
    Registered Users Posts: 11,624 ✭✭✭✭meeeeh


    Sleeper12 wrote: »
    I'm not aiming this at OP but sometimes client hears what they want to hear. I'm in shower repair & I give out set advice for different issues. Same advice word for word, several times per day for decades. I still get some clients claim that I said things that I never said or that I didn't tell them something when I did. I'm not claiming my memory is perfect but my replys are set replies. They are like a mantra. So much so that I can say no I didn't say that or yes I did say that.



    Again I'm not having a pop at OP but we only ever get one side of the story here. I'd love to hear the garage owners side of the conversation. Again that's not to say OP is wrong. I wasn't there & I don't know

    That might be true but I worked in my parent's garage for while and not clearly agreeing to work done in advance only causes hassle. You also have to make judgement based on the car and customer what type of work they will be actually able or willing to pay. Otherwise you end up writing off some stuff, discounting it or risk not being paid. On top of that everyone can write a review about it online nowadays.


  • Options
    #59
    dermiek
    Registered Users Posts: 327 ✭✭dermiek


    Just my thoughts, and I could be way off. You say the car is running, and the nct is due this week. I would collect the car as it is, do the nct, and let them ( the nct crowd ) tell you what needs to be repaired. Garage may point out stuff that needs repairing, but will still pass the nct in current condition.

    Then maybe scrap it/sell it/trade it in.


  • Options
    #60
    dermiek
    Registered Users Posts: 327 ✭✭dermiek


    Also, in my experience, if I got a diagnostic done, decided not to pursue repairs, I would expect a fee for the diagnostic. After all the mechanic has to be paid etc. If I got the repairs done, its courtesy to not charge for the diagnostic.


  • Advertisement
  • Options
    #61
    Bass Reeves
    Registered Users Posts: 18,156 ✭✭✭✭Bass Reeves


    Dav010 wrote: »
    I don’t know about yours, but any garage that has fixed/serviced any car I’ve had give the ex vat quote for parts, the labour cost depends on how long it takes to do it and the VAT is then added at the end. Hence the quote for the computer repair would be ex labour and VAT.

    That is different to getting a quote for work as opposed to parts. The law is quite clear on quoting to ordinary consumers you have to include VAT. If a business us unsure of other charges eg labour they must quite an hourly rate for and explain to consumer

    Slava Ukrainii



Advertisement