How about get a degree where there are jobs instead of crying about it.

El_Duderino 09 · 26-02-2020 5:43pm

[Deleted User] wrote: »

To be honest, i was more irritated when he considered moving to London as emigrating.. It's like moving to Dublin after living in the Midlands. The idea that he sacrificed so much to move to.... bam!... England. Yup. :rolleyes: it's just pathetic.

I suppose the only way to emigrate is to go to China. Have you gone to China, Klaz? Gawd, you never mention it. Lol.

26-02-2020 6:03pm

El_Duderino 09 wrote: »

I suppose the only way to emigrate is to go to China. Have you gone to China, Klaz? Gawd, you never mention it. Lol.

Did I mention it? Nope. :rolleyes:

creditcarder · 27-02-2020 3:37pm

El_Duderino 09 wrote: »

I suppose the only way to emigrate is to go to China. Have you gone to China, Klaz? Gawd, you never mention it. Lol.

I really hate that Lol :P It reminds me of people who use pop psychology in regular life as they read men respond negatively to laughter or something. You meet them a lot in eastern europe.

Church on Tuesday · 27-02-2020 4:25pm

El_Duderino 09 wrote: »

Instead of getting money for free, he moved away from home, worked part time for money and part time for free as an intern. And still some people say he’s entitled.

They were cross when they thought he was a loser who’d never actually achieve getting a play produced. They were equally cross when they heard his hard work and sacrifice was beginning to pay off and he’s getting a play produced.

Begrudgers gonna’ begrudge.

I'm sure the man is kept up all night worrying about what some people are saying about him on Boards. :rolleyes:

El_Duderino 09 · 27-02-2020 4:42pm

Church on Tuesday wrote: »

I'm sure the man is kept up all night worrying about what some people are saying about him on Boards. :rolleyes:

I doubt it.

I think the begrudging instinct some people exhibit is fascinating to see. It’s just the way some people are. I presume they just can’t help it.

27-02-2020 5:05pm

El_Duderino 09 wrote: »

I doubt it.

I think the begrudging instinct some people exhibit is fascinating to see. It’s just the way some people are. I presume they just can’t help it.

Oh, the irony. :pac:

El_Duderino 09 · 27-02-2020 5:15pm

[Deleted User] wrote: »

Oh, the irony. :pac:

Yeah they can’t help it. Like criticising the guy for emigrating, others criticising the guy for not emigrating far enough, some criticising him for being such a loser he can’t get his plays produced, others for him only getting his plays produced in a small theatre. Some criticise him for even talking about his experience and call him entitled even though he didn’t complain about anything, he just got on with it.

Yeah some people will use any old thing to whinge about. One clown even said moving to England isn’t emigrating. These begrudgers will say anything. lol.

But I presume they just can’t help it.

Obvious Desperate Breakfasts · 27-02-2020 5:20pm

Deleted User wrote: »

To be honest, i was more irritated when he considered moving to London as emigrating.. It's like moving to Dublin after living in the Midlands. The idea that he sacrificed so much to move to.... bam!... England. Yup. :rolleyes: it's just pathetic.

Moving to the UK is emigrating. I did it. It’s more of a culture shock than people realise.

Titclamp · 27-02-2020 5:23pm

Iscreamkone wrote: »

A friend of mine has a cleaner who does 3 hours a week for her. She’s in her 60s, is from Lithuania and has little spoken English. She works hard to make a living. She doesn’t complain if the conditions are hard or very casual. She makes enough money to get by. She doesn’t ask for money & stuff from the government like a lot of Irish do. If she gets paid cash in hand - good luck to her.

Its 3 hours not 300

27-02-2020 5:24pm

El_Duderino 09 wrote: »

Yeah they can’t help it. Like criticising the guy for emigrating, others criticising the guy for not emigrating far enough, some criticising him for being such a loser he can’t get his plays produced, others for him only getting his plays produced in a small theatre. Some criticise him for even talking about his experience and call him entitled even though he didn’t complain about anything, he just got on with it.

Yeah some people will use any old thing to whinge about. One clown even said moving to England isn’t emigrating. These begrudgers will say anything. lol.

But I presume they just can’t help it.

Oh, I'm a clown now? This is coming from someone who double speaks in almost every thread he involves himself in, and generally seeks to trigger everyone? Same with your criticism "by others" observations. Face in the mirror. You're such a hypocrite.

El_Duderino 09 · 27-02-2020 5:27pm

[Deleted User] wrote: »

Oh, I'm a clown now? This is coming from someone who double speaks in almost every thread he involves himself in, and generally seeks to trigger everyone? Same with your criticism "by others" observations. Face in the mirror. You're such a hypocrite.

Now now. No need to be triggered. You’ll shake yourself asunder

27-02-2020 5:28pm

El_Duderino 09 wrote: »

Now now. No need to be triggered. You’ll shake yourself asunder

:P

El_Duderino 09 · 27-02-2020 5:32pm

[Deleted User] wrote: »

:P

Lol

05eaftqbrs9jlh · 27-02-2020 5:54pm

vriesmays wrote: »

You'd be studying years for a job and doing unpaid voluntary work. A psychology degree isn't enough., Most in your classes will be women. The more interesting areas in psychology have no jobs in Ireland. Vacancies are mostly in counselling and child work. You'd be restricted in the hours you can work meaning an average wage.

That's actually complete bunkum. I'm not going to bother going into why, but you're clearly nothing to do with the field of psychology if you think that. Or you thinking that is the reason you don't work in psychology.

Also "most in your classes will be women" wth is that even implying.

vriesmays · 27-02-2020 7:41pm

Off you go then, explain how a middle-aged man will get a good job in Ireland with a psychology degree.

ToxicPaddy · 27-02-2020 8:01pm

Years ago a degree was seen as a measure of learning, could you apply yourself to something where the onus was on you to learn, not a teacher/lecturer/parents to lean on you to make you learn. Once complete, you has a degree and unless it was needed for a very specific profession then you could go on to most jobs from there.

The chap obviously has a passion for literature and you couldn't blame him for going for it, however the world has changed dramatically and now you need fairly specific degrees for most jobs these days, so unfortunately his passion for literature isn't a good path to take if he wanted a career in Ireland.

Add to the fact that he finished his degree/masters in the middle of one of the worst financial crisis the country has ever experienced would definitely add an additional nail to the coffin of him getting a career or even a job, made even more so by the fact he, was from a rural area.

So while I don't think his degree was the reason he couldn't get a job, no one could in 2009 I do pity him. However in London he succeeded but he chose a very specific profession while in London, publishing, and even in Dublin, it would be difficult to get a job in that.

So unfortunately not only did his degree/masters and coming from a rural area not help, the chosen profession has also not helped him get a job near home.

I know many like him, while difficult and I do pity them, Ireland is a small economy built on very specific industries and if you don't aim for one of them the chances of landing your preferred career here are very low.

Obvious Desperate Breakfasts · 27-02-2020 8:32pm

Ensley Plump Segregation wrote: »

That's actually complete bunkum. I'm not going to bother going into why, but you're clearly nothing to do with the field of psychology if you think that. Or you thinking that is the reason you don't work in psychology.

Also "most in your classes will be women" wth is that even implying.

I don’t think it’s bunkum. All of my friends who did psychology degrees acknowledged how few opportunities there are in Ireland in the field. Any of them who did well in it left Ireland to to do so.

vriesmays · 28-02-2020 4:09pm

Exactly, anyone who says there are lots of well-paid psychology jobs for graduates in Ireland is a sap.

lainey_d_123 · 28-02-2020 6:06pm

vriesmays wrote: »

Exactly, anyone who says there are lots of well-paid psychology jobs for graduates in Ireland is a sap.

Anyone who says there are any well paid jobs in anything for graduates in Ireland is a sap.

It's literally not what you know, but who you know. I spent my twenties watching complete morons get their lives handed to them on a plate because of who Daddy was, or some other sort of personal or family connection. I spent time working in a call centre it was chock full of really lovely, intelligent, skilled people who were working for a pittance in a dead end job because they couldn't get on that first rung of the ladder.

My advice would be, if you're not lucky enough to have rich parents, make friends with those who do. Make connections, network, whatever you can. This will open far more doors than any cert or degree alone will.

28-02-2020 11:48pm

lainey_d_123 wrote: »

Anyone who says there are any well paid jobs in anything for graduates in Ireland is a sap.

It's literally not what you know, but who you know. I spent my twenties watching complete morons get their lives handed to them on a plate because of who Daddy was, or some other sort of personal or family connection. I spent time working in a call centre it was chock full of really lovely, intelligent, skilled people who were working for a pittance in a dead end job because they couldn't get on that first rung of the ladder.

My advice would be, if you're not lucky enough to have rich parents, make friends with those who do. Make connections, network, whatever you can. This will open far more doors than any cert or degree alone will.

While I agree with the networking, I don't agree with the rest of what you said. It entirely depends on your major and what work you've done to develop yourself to have practical skills. I know quite a few fresh graduates, without help from relations/connections, who have landed decent positions in Dublin recently.

The problem is that many graduates do the minimum needed to pass their exams, and think the world will fall down to hand out jobs to them. It won't. Getting your first/second class honors is definitely useful but it's what you know going into an interview that counts. Do the groundwork, research your target company/position, checklist the skills needed (before being told or trained by the company), and then, you'll have plenty of opportunities for good jobs. It's just worth remembering that in Ireland there is an employment ladder.. while in other countries, skipping a few levels is very doable, most professional positions in Ireland expect you to have done some work upwards from the low end first.

donaghs · 29-02-2020 8:42pm

A lot of posters saying people are just sneering at the guy, accusing him of whining, when he has legitimate complaint.
But it did sound like much of it was childish whining, so I went back and read the article again:

". I’d had potential but austerity stole it as its ransom.
I was 24, top of my year in college, an arts degree and a master’s in literature in my pocket, ..."
So what's new? Not many employers ever want someone straight of a college with an Arts degree, or a Master in Literature. The few positions that do have too many people applying for them.
This isn't a revelation, this has always been the case.

"... but in Co Clare I couldn’t even get a job in a shop."
True, the recession did mean there was less work in retail etc. Same for everyone.

"Despite the privilege of education, coming from a working-class rural village meant I wasn’t entitled to stay."
Not sure what he means here? Should there a government grant so Literature graduates can go back and live in rural villages?
Should the government create tailored jobs for people in each rural village?

"Growing up in the country, you know you won’t get to stay very long. To do well, you are told, you have to leave for college. There are no universities nearby and there are still not a lot of employment opportunities."
Is that a surprise? And should we build a university within commuting distance of every rural village?

"Economic migrants are also fleeing danger. Economics are dangerous. The National Suicide Research Foundation reports increased suicide rates linked to unemployment during the recession, and the Irish Medical Journal shows a stalled and lower-than-projected life expectancy in ageing populations for the same period."
Does it sound insensitive to tell him that the Yazidi women of Syria and Iraq have suffered more, and would be more deserving of asylum?

"Working-class but out of work, I was at risk, part of a generation specifically targeted by austerity - cutting dole, freezing wages and prohibiting new hires."
An ongoing debate, do you inherit your "class" status. Or does working class still imply having to do manual work - not having a Masters degree in literature and aspiring to be a playwright?

"Moving to London saved my life. I say that honestly and I don’t particularly like the place (soz, London)."
No comment needed here.

"Meanwhile, I see contemporary artists emigrating again, even now. The promised arts funding didn’t come - it never comes."
Not saying we shouldn't provide "Arts funding". But if he literally means subsiding artists so they can afford to live in Ireland, I'm not sure the taxpayer should be on the hook for that.
Entitlement.

How about this for a play, a Beckettesque parody of self-absorbed entitled would-be-artists: "Waiting for Arts Funding".

vriesmays · 05-03-2020 8:20pm

donaghs wrote: »

"Meanwhile, I see contemporary artists emigrating again, even now. The promised arts funding didn’t come - it never comes."
Not saying we shouldn't provide "Arts funding". But if he literally means subsiding artists so they can afford to live in Ireland, I'm not sure the taxpayer should be on the hook for that.
Entitlement.

Why is some dope who does arts in college considered more creative than a highly-paid software engineer or web designer. Why do these losers expect the State to fund them produce their bad art or writing. Why can't they get a paid job in another area and do their creativity in the evenings until they become successful.

KiKi III · 06-03-2020 9:42pm

vriesmays wrote: »

Why is some dope who does arts in college considered more creative than a highly-paid software engineer or web designer. Why do these losers expect the State to fund them produce their bad art or writing. Why can't they get a paid job in another area and do their creativity in the evenings until they become successful.

Many do.

The fact is creative professions have been devalued dramatically in recent generations, and the expectation that artists should work for free for exposure is common.

Pretty hard to do an 8 hour shift in Costa or teach all day, commute home and then start making high
quality art.

Who would want to live in a world without authors, playwrights and poets, singers and songwriters, painters and photographers and sculptors? What a bleak world that would be.

Yet many are content to rob their favourite art forms from the internet. And then act affronted that the government might support the artists we refuse to pay for their work, even if we love it.

06-03-2020 10:12pm

KiKi III wrote: »

Many do.

The fact is creative professions have been devalued dramatically in recent generations, and the expectation that artists should work for free for exposure is common.

Pretty hard to do an 8 hour shift in Costa or teach all day, commute home and then start making high
quality art.

Who would want to live in a world without authors, playwrights and poets, singers and songwriters, painters and photographers and sculptors? What a bleak world that would be.

Yet many are content to rob their favourite art forms from the internet. And then act affronted that the government might support the artists we refuse to pay for their work, even if we love it.

Art is hard. Just as everything is, really. I write. I've written three books that were rejected and I've had two accepted by publishers. One self-published. I've made very little actual money from the sales of the books so far, but i continue to write in the hopes that I can turn it into a full time occupation. On average each book will have at least 200k words, and I'll have revised/edited each draft at least ten times before submitting them to an editor, and then I'll be back to revising them after feedback. Each book takes months to do, and I'm still working at the same time. I intentionally took a less paid position so that I would have time to write.

Art is a business, or it's a hobby. There's little crossover between the two, unless you're particularly talented and lucky... but for the rest of us, it's a long struggle towards recognition.

If people want to make money or support themselves from their artistic expression, then they need to go where the money is. Ireland is such a small market, which is already saturated with would-be poets, artists, writers, etc. It pays to be realistic. Just as anyone who wants to be a famous/successful actor/actress for the big screen won't stay in Ireland, hoping that Irish cinema will get them that success. For others, the internet helps, but it's also become rather saturated. Going to London made sense considering his interests, but to expect Ireland to provide the same opportunities is extremely naive.

KiKi III · 06-03-2020 10:28pm

[Deleted User] wrote: »

Art is hard. Just as everything is, really. I write. I've written three books that were rejected and I've had two accepted by publishers. One self-published. I've made very little actual money from the sales of the books so far, but i continue to write in the hopes that I can turn it into a full time occupation. On average each book will have at least 200k words, and I'll have revised/edited each draft at least ten times before submitting them to an editor, and then I'll be back to revising them after feedback. Each book takes months to do, and I'm still working at the same time. I intentionally took a less paid position so that I would have time to write.

Art is a business, or it's a hobby. There's little crossover between the two, unless you're particularly talented and lucky... but for the rest of us, it's a long struggle towards recognition.

If people want to make money or support themselves from their artistic expression, then they need to go where the money is. Ireland is such a small market, which is already saturated with would-be poets, artists, writers, etc. It pays to be realistic. Just as anyone who wants to be a famous/successful actor/actress for the big screen won't stay in Ireland, hoping that Irish cinema will get them that success. For others, the internet helps, but it's also become rather saturated. Going to London made sense considering his interests, but to expect Ireland to provide the same opportunities is extremely naive.

I agree that it’s unrealistic to expect the same experiences in Clare as in London or New York - that’s the same for almost any field tbh. I don’t think he did expect that. You can express disappointment and regret that things are a certain way while acknowledging that it wouldn’t be possible for them to be different.

I see his article as him telling his own story; not complaining, demanding or entitled. “Things were like this so i did that, it’s not ideal but I’m grateful for the opportunities...” That’s how I’d sum it up.

My previous point was a more general one in response to the comments on the thread. We spend our days on our phones listening to music, watching comedy sketches, reading stories, watching tv etc and we don’t pay a penny for most of it so the creators struggle to survive.

And then, having enjoyed a ton of content for free, log on to boards and bitch about them for “expecting handouts” and tell them to “get a real job”. Most artists don’t want handouts, they want society to pay a fair price for the entertainment they provide.

Buy books. Go see shows. If a busker made you smile, throw him or her a euro. Watch a YouTube ad now and then so the creators of the video you’re watching makes a little money. Art deserves support.

BalcombeSt4 · 07-03-2020 12:19am

So glad the OP got banned.

AH is already full enough of threads dedicated to right-wing illusions of the mind, that clearly do not translate into the real world.

"that homeless man wants a extra blanket & a hat to keep him warm in winter" - culture entitlement.

NSAman · 07-03-2020 12:27am

Ain't nothing wrong with an Arts Degree (except if you are looking for a job). It is a great springboard for getting entry into something else.

I took a business degree after attaining mine and also a Higher Diploma in Education and a Masters (at night). Broad experience plus the above made me employable and also gave me a wide knowledge that many business only graduates lack.

It is all about what you want out of a Degree/Masters or any type of education.

07-03-2020 2:16am

BalcombeSt4 wrote: »

So glad the OP got banned.

AH is already full enough of threads dedicated to right-wing illusions of the mind, that clearly do not translate into the real world.

"that homeless man wants a extra blanket & a hat to keep him warm in winter" - culture entitlement.

Ahh yes, because the person in the article really compares with a homeless person... and your concept of what right wing entails seems to include pretty much everyone who doesn't agree with you. How very... tolerant of you. :rolleyes:

Strumms · 07-03-2020 2:30am

At the end of the day, you must be a bit underdone if you pick a degree without doing a LOT of research into how it will add value and IF it will add value to your marketability in the jobs market.

vriesmays · 07-03-2020 12:34pm

KiKi III wrote: »

Pretty hard to do an 8 hour shift in Costa or teach all day, commute home and then start making high
quality art.

Artists Paul Gauguin was a stockbroker and Jeff Koons worked in Wall Street. Novelists Charles Dickens worked in a factory and Arthur Conan Doyle was a doctor. Composers Alexander Borodin was a chemist while Iannis Xenakis was an architect. Poets Robert Burns and Walt Whitman were both civil servants.

KiKi III · 07-03-2020 1:50pm

vriesmays wrote: »

Artists Paul Gauguin was a stockbroker and Jeff Koons worked in Wall Street. Novelists Charles Dickens worked in a factory and Arthur Conan Doyle was a doctor. Composers Alexander Borodin was a chemist while Iannis Xenakis was an architect. Poets Robert Burns and Walt Whitman were both civil servants.

And I think they’d all agree that it’s a helluva lot harder to focus on creative pursuits when you also have a demanding full-time job.

KiKi III · 07-03-2020 1:54pm

I did an Arts degree that wasn’t very demanding. Most of my friends did Law and spent a lot of time in the library.

I wrote for the student paper in that time, I was involved in various societies and I was (hold back your contempt) involved with the SU.

An awful lot of what I learned during my degree (most of in fact) happened outside of lecture theatres. I don’t think that would have been possible in more demanding courses that get you “real jobs”. Though I have been gainfully employed consistently since graduation.

And I partied like a motherf*cker. Learned some life lessons from that too.

vriesmays · 07-03-2020 1:58pm

Have you bought your own house yet wth that arts degree.

KiKi III · 07-03-2020 8:52pm

vriesmays wrote: »

Have you bought your own house yet wth that arts degree.

No, but I hope to this year, and at that will buy at roughly the same age as friends who studied law, finance, engineering.

I could have bought over the last few years down home, but hoping to buy in Dublin which is difficult for reasons outside of my Arts degree.

vriesmays · 08-03-2020 3:20pm

When your law/finance/engineering friends are middle-aged they will be earning a lot more than now. Like most arts graduates you'll still be earning the same salary as now.

KiKi III · 08-03-2020 4:42pm

vriesmays wrote: »

When your law/finance/engineering friends are middle-aged they will be earning a lot more than now. Like most arts graduates you'll still be earning the same salary as now.

I love how you’re able to make this assessment of my personal finances while knowing exactly nothing about me except that my undergrad was an Arts degree. You don’t need a degree at all with a crystal ball like that.

Herb Powell · 08-03-2020 8:33pm

Fucck economic worship, the economy is a load of balls, the rich are getting richer while the rest of us "clearly aren't working hard enough" and argue about it.

Fucck off like.

vriesmays · 09-03-2020 5:59pm

KiKi III wrote: »

I love how you’re able to make this assessment of my personal finances while knowing exactly nothing about me except that my undergrad was an Arts degree. You don’t need a degree at all with a crystal ball like that.

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/femail/article-7473067/People-liberal-arts-worst-paid-professionals-UK.html

NSAman · 09-03-2020 6:06pm

vriesmays wrote: »

When your law/finance/engineering friends are middle-aged they will be earning a lot more than now. Like most arts graduates you'll still be earning the same salary as now.

That crystal ball will let you down again.

The auld Arts Degree is very useful in getting you prepared in life. Was it a waste of time for me? Nope.

And I do "very" nicely thank you compared to those that studied law/finance/architecture/engineering etc...;)

10-03-2020 11:30am

Any degree can be used as a stepping stone for career progression. The only people bound/tied to their major are the people lacking imagination and the ambition to succeed. I know a variety of people with Arts degrees who are working in managerial or other business/media roles.

I think the point is more that those who do art, or another soft degree, tend to stick to their major, and thus it's difficult for them to gain positions which pay well. It entirely depends on their interests. I have a friend who has a Degree in Fine art, but doesn't paint. She works for the national council and operates a gallery. Decent salary there. Whereas I know two other individuals with similar degrees who focused on producing Art, and they're on a minimum income, with occasional spikes of revenue. I also know people with Business and Finance degrees, working for KFC, and earning below the average for their degrees.

But any degree can be used to gain a position that pays well. At the end of the day, it depends on what the person focuses themselves on.

Ray Palmer · 10-03-2020 4:33pm

[Deleted User] wrote: »

Any degree can be used as a stepping stone for career progression etc...

It may help with HR or requirements to get an interview but not sure it is going to actually teach you anything helpful with working.

I studied civil engineering but ended up working in IT. More knowledge and experience of a graduate in computer sciences for a working environment.

As I consult I talk to a lot of different users at different levels in companies with differing education levels. Having a degree of any sort doesn't make you capable.

I worked with one women who was a part time lecturer assistant in an arts course. She actually became a lecturer later. I could simply not understand how incapable she was. The job involved working in a call centre and as a supervisor on shifts she had to monitor progress and make reports. Pretty straight forward system that counted individuals output on different projects. She had tto add up the information and state the average output and say how far the project was.
She didn't have to calculate the details but fill it into an excel sheet. She couldn't understand what she was doing. No idea what averages were and would fill in the detail wrong every time. We had to create a system so things would turn red when it was obviously wrong. Things like a project was 20% complete going to 400% done in one shift. She could only do things be wrote. She ended up with a massive book with minute detail on how to do things. If she didn't write it down she couldn't figure out what to do. They eventually let her go after giving her so many chances.

Generally I found those with arts degrees only had little or no understanding hard details and calculations. The very concepts of averages, medians etc... lost on them. Some were really good with people and others not but the degree didn't help them
This is life often

https://youtu.be/BKorP55Aqvg

Yurt2 · 10-03-2020 4:36pm

vriesmays wrote: »

When your law/finance/engineering friends are middle-aged they will be earning a lot more than now. Like most arts graduates you'll still be earning the same salary as now.

Arts graduate here. I probably earn more than you. Vulgar thing to say, but you're being vulgar yourself so it's worth highlighting to you.

vriesmays · 10-03-2020 4:38pm

You think stating fact is vulgar. Read the link from above - is your degree really worth it.

Yurt2 · 10-03-2020 4:41pm

vriesmays wrote: »

You think stating fact is vulgar. Read the link from above - is your degree really worth it.

Yes. Everyone in my cohort did very well for themselves; which isn't captured in your Daily Mail article.

Facts aren't vulgar, your attitude and ignorance is.

vriesmays · 10-03-2020 5:30pm

What ignorance. It's fact that most arts graduates don't earn as much as other graduates. Your and your silly friends don't affect the results of thousands of others.

10-03-2020 5:40pm

Ray Palmer wrote: »

It may help with HR or requirements to get an interview but not sure it is going to actually teach you anything helpful with working.

Apart from technical degrees (engineering, science, medicine etc), extremely few degrees teach anything helpful with regards to working. It's simply too easy for degrees to fall behind the progression curve.

My own degree in Financial Management was useful for explaining concepts, but everything I have ever used while working (credit control, AR/AP, Negotiations, Management) I learned after I had left university.

I studied civil engineering but ended up working in IT. More knowledge and experience of a graduate in computer sciences for a working environment.

As I consult I talk to a lot of different users at different levels in companies with differing education levels. Having a degree of any sort doesn't make you capable.

I'd agree because that's not what I said...

Ray Palmer · 10-03-2020 5:43pm

Yurt! wrote: »

Yes. Everyone in my cohort did very well for themselves; which isn't captured in your Daily Mail article.

Facts aren't vulgar, your attitude and ignorance is.

I work with the civil servants at the moment. They have a grade employment structure. The 2nd lowest level has mostly hired arts degree people as new hires. The older staff doing the same jobs mostly don't have leaving certs.

There is a fast path process for those with degrees so they can be promoted quicker. They stopped allowing those with arts degrees from going to fast path without proving capable at the job first now.

When I was studying and doing 35 hrs in class with another 20hours on project work my friends doing arts had a lot less college time. They all work minor clerical jobs as do their former class mates.

My experience directly contradicts your claims along with what is reported about the degrees. Hard to find what you are saying is believable.

10-03-2020 5:43pm

vriesmays wrote: »

What ignorance. It's fact that most arts graduates don't earn as much as other graduates. Your and your silly friends don't affect the results of thousands of others.

Well, lets see the statistics then. My guess is that you're dismissing others based on an assumption rather than definite knowledge.

I assume that this will include those with an Arts degree, who have since gotten a secondary non-related Masters? like a MBA/MBM, etc?

10-03-2020 5:52pm

Ray Palmer wrote: »

I work with the civil servants at the moment. They have a grade employment structure. The 2nd lowest level has mostly hired arts degree people as new hires. The older staff doing the same jobs mostly don't have leaving certs.

There is a fast path process for those with degrees so they can be promoted quicker. They stopped allowing those with arts degrees from going to fast path without proving capable at the job first now.

When I was studying and doing 35 hrs in class with another 20hours on project work my friends doing arts had a lot less college time. They all work minor clerical jobs as do their former class mates.

My experience directly contradicts your claims along with what is reported about the degrees. Hard to find what you are saying is believable.

Ahh well, If we're all going to use personal experience as proof, I supervised the hiring of staff for two companies, and we accepted applications from people with Arts degrees from a variety of disciplines who would have ended up in roles such as Finance, management, Advertising, CRM, logistics.. Once hired, I was part of the mentoring, and training of those applicants, which usually involved a 4 week on site training program. That program would be considered a probation period to determine the applicants true ability, rather than their study/passing of a degree.

We knew that we would be up-skilling people once they were hired... because most graduates had few useful skills and a lot of misconceptions about what was involved in work. This would apply to essentially any degree holder regardless of how specialized they were...

Except, again, for technical positions such as accounting, auditing, etc.

Ray Palmer · 10-03-2020 6:02pm

[Deleted User] wrote: »

Apart from technical degrees (engineering, science, medicine etc), extremely few degrees teach anything helpful with regards to working. It's simply too easy for degrees to fall behind the progression curve.

My own degree in Financial Management was useful for explaining concepts, but everything I have ever used while working (credit control, AR/AP, Negotiations, Management) I learned after I had left university.

I'd agree because that's not what I said...

Some degrees called arts degrees are really science degrees. Economics arts degrees for example is actual a science degree as economics is a science. People generally are talking about arts degrees as study literature and dead languages

When I was studying we were taught how to use archaic methods as the principles didn't change. There was software about then that would do it all. The lecturer mean while told us that using a computer to do it was not worth it as you wouldn't have the time on the mainframe system to get it to work out the equations. He didn't believe us when we told him the PCs in the next room had the program and the answers were instant. He was close to retirement and had been lecturing about 20 years. We still got the knowledge on what it was doing so I get learning more after starting work but many arts student come out with no practical understanding and some seem to not even have memory of primary education like basic maths.

I am terrible and languages so I get some skills aren't natural but calculating percentages and averages is basic basic maths.

How about get a degree where there are jobs instead of crying about it.

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