Brexit discussion thread XII (Please read OP before posting)

It strikes me that now that Johnson has confirmed if the election goes through this evening parliament will reconvene before Christmas - it means Labour don't have a leg to stand on in objecting to it.

It means no deal is off the table.

If Labour don't vote for an election today they will look like they were scared to face the electorate and will hand all the initiative to the Lib Dems.

briany wrote: »

It's a tactic, but is it even a sound one? It seems to be based on the assumption that as Conservative support falls, Labour support either goes up, or at least remains relatively stable. In actuality, I think the public would grow p*ssed off with both parties, and while Labour may not make out too badly, they run the risk of something much more terrible, which is total public disillusionment with politics and the extreme elements who feed on that coming in and feasting.

its a ridiculous tactic of course considering nothing in the polls suggests it could work - quite the opposite

schmittel wrote: »

The longer BoJo held is powerless in parliament because Corbyn refuses a GE the more damaging it is to Corbyn and Labour.

Johnson might be a buffoon but having a government that cannot legislate even on how to cut the grass is a disaster for the country at the best of times, never mind the situation the UK is in now.

I think the middle ground in the electorate will see that and blame Labour.

Its abysmal - but hard not to agree with you - Corbyn is leading his party to destruction the way things are going

Professor Moriarty wrote: »

When you're in a fight, what matters is not how good you are but how good your opponent is. Johnson looks across the floor of the house and thanks his lucky stars.

Absolutely true - a selfish egotist in Number 10 - facing down a ditherer as leader of the op

Its horrible for me to talk like this as someone who used to love Corbyn, and is a proper lefty - but it has to be said, Corbyn is ruining his party

liamtech wrote: »

Corbyn is banking on BoJo's support slipping the longer he is held powerless in Number 10 - ok its a tactic - is it country First or party first??? And refusing a GE, because Labor is low in the polls.. is that country or party first???

Indeed, several people have argued that the main opposition party leader blocking a GE merely because he thinks he will lose it is disgraceful behaviour.

Strazdas wrote: »

Tom Newton Dunn thinks Labour might vote for a GE tomorrow. An election in December is beginning to look highly likely:

https://twitter.com/tnewtondunn/status/1188822382829592576

Is the only reason they won't just agree this evening so they can set the date via legislation?

briany wrote: »

Pretty snookered is right, and they played themselves into that position.

Their internal divisions seem huge (suggesting Corbyn is an extremely divisive figure). They can barely agree a position on anything.

Strazdas wrote: »

Tom Newton Dunn thinks Labour might vote for a GE tomorrow. An election in December is beginning to look highly likely:

https://twitter.com/tnewtondunn/status/1188822382829592576

Well we can only hope that they support the election and then make a sane choice

There are only two sane choices i can see

• Make a genuine shift towards People Vote/Stopping Brexit, and shelve the ridiculous 'Corbyn can get a better Brexit' stance - it wont work - its foolish, and the british electorate wont go for it - Labor need to return to the proper 'Brexit is a mistake' stance of the referendum, and really hit home just how bad it is
• Better still, enter a pact with the SNP and or the Lib Dems - it could be done, and would ensure that the anti brexit vote isnt split. Co-operative Electioneering could win this for remain, regardless of the polls. Leave the SNP in Scotland, and divide the Tory Seats between Labor and the lib dems - if a lib dem came in 2nd last time in a seat leave it to them to take that one - and vice versa with Labor

Again though, and i feel like a broken record saying this, Corbyn wont do that. Neither for that matter would Swinson but i feel she is open to co-operation more so to Labor. Her seat is scottish and yet she is co-operating with the SNP tomorrow - there is room for co-operation there.

But Corbyn - no.. he is sticking to his 'principles'. I really hope that he will change and compromise, but nothing in his track record suggests he will change. An aside, Corbyn is starting to remind me of a football manager who insists on staying with a single group of core players, and a single formation, despite losing most of the games played with this lineup. Its not too late to change, Corbyn could get off the fence and properly do this - its still possible

But i doubt it - lets see how he gets on tonight with the vote - and how he responds to BJ's election call - more importantly what excuses he comes up with to vote against

Tea Shock wrote: »

The trouble is, Keir Starmer or whoever mightn't have much power in opposition.

Maybe not, but he can at least lead the rebuilding process and make Labour electable once again. Y'know, being a leader, rather than just power-hungry.

The Tories will have a simple message - "we have a deal, vote for us and we leave the EU".


Not sure the Brexit party's message of "scrap that and leave with no deal" will gain serious traction against that argument with voters.

I expect the Tories to get a comfortable majority of seats which will enable the deal to be quickly ratified.

Labour are unelectable.

It's a home run for the tories.

briany wrote: »

There must be some pollsters out there doing a voting intention by constituency type thing and tabulating projected seats from that?



And it's strange because the SNP and LD are against a Brexit of any type and yet they're poised to back a Dec 9th election which could well give the Cons a functional majority to deliver Brexit on. How are those parties explaining that to themselves and their voters?

I dont see that either party will have to explain anything - they are set to gain seats - and they cant really avoid an election - for 2 months they have said 'Take no deal off the table - get an extension - and we will have an election'

Well.. done and done

liamtech wrote: »

I dont see that either party will have to explain anything - they are set to gain seats - and they cant really avoid an election - for 2 months they have said 'Take no deal off the table - get an extension - and we will have an election'

Well.. done and done

The Lib Dems have styled themselves as a party that are anti-Brexit. If they're set to gain seats just because they're the only palatable alternative to Labour in certain constituencies, then yes, I guess they will gain seats. If they're set to gain seats because of their unabashedly Brexit stance then they're going to have a tough time standing on doorsteps explaining why it's a good idea to have an election when an election may actually help Brexit to happen, thereby ending LD's promise of being against Brexit, or at least having a second referendum.

briany wrote: »

The Lib Dems have styled themselves as a party that are anti-Brexit. If they're set to gain seats just because they're the only palatable alternative to Labour in certain constituencies, then yes, I guess they will gain seats. If they're set to gain seats because of their unabashedly Brexit stance then they're going to have a tough time standing on doorsteps explaining why it's a good idea to have an election when an election may actually help Brexit to happen, thereby ending LD's promise of being against Brexit, or at least having a second referendum.

They wont be admitting anything except that the Lib Dems are against brexit - if you are against it - vote Lib dem - if they win the election (and on the same day we colonize the moon and find elvis on the dark side) - they will stop brexit, the lib dems are clear - unlike labor who will maybe stop renegotiate compromise ask jeremy wait he is busy nationalizing private schools - do something

We are reaching a point where arguably there is now more to be gained by these parties, in letting brexit happen

Lib Dems - can rightly say they fought the good fight and lost. due only to numbers. (and labor leaderships dithering position on brexit - do you want a second Ref Jeremy - Yes, No, Maybe, Only if i get to negotiate, No sure, Not gonna comment, My deputies are entitled to their opinion, i will win the election). The Lib Dems may in fact be seeking to make a huge gain in seats and aim to supplant Labor on the opposition benches

SNP - may realize that the writing is on the wall - Labor more than likely wont win, even with coalition. therefore long game - take brexit - rightly complain they fought the good fight - next time the Tories are out they can push either the Lib Dems or Labor, or a possible coalition including the SNP, into going for Indyref2

Its getting very depressing now - Jeremy is making less and less sense

You could almost just replay the speeches in the HoC from any debate over the last year.

Same old same old stuff.