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09-11-2018, 17:20   #16
Ray Palmer
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I always wonder why tax is thrown into every argument in relation to landlords, its income so you pay taxes on it. the rate depending on your overall circumstances
Because you pay more tax here then other places. Not much point in making a extra 1% if the entire amount you earn is taxed at a higher rate. USC charges alone make the yield value pointless.

It is very relevant as you don't pay the same taxes in each country. Other countries allow the mortgage as an expense.

The article relies on cash buyers only and I suspect it is an investment fund and not personal tax they are referring to
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09-11-2018, 17:20   #17
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Has there ever been a better time to be a landlord?
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Never been a worse time you mean.
This might be a mad suggestion, but rather than these extremes, could it just be the case that the truth lies somewhere in the middle??
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09-11-2018, 17:20   #18
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Thats high gross rents, plus high level of costs too. Plus tax at up to 56% on any earnings. And its a high risk investment. When you think you are trusting a couple of tenants with at least 250k for your investment and hoping they will pay and not thrash it.

Last year i had criminal gang who didnt pay for year wouldnt leave and RTB kept their show going by entertaining every appeal tenants made even when tenants didnt show up.
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09-11-2018, 17:25   #19
Ray Palmer
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Has there ever been a better time to be a landlord? All of them milking it these days. They should be praising the current system and not an ounce of a complaint.
Yes when there was less charges and taxes. Landlords very well may be charging higher rents but keeping less of it now. Right now I get less than when the rent was lower. So why would I praise this situation while people like yourself think I am better off and being greedy when I am not.You also ignore the years of heavy losses when rents dropped.
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09-11-2018, 17:26   #20
Samuel T. Cogley
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You have the highest rents of all time!

And they're still not worth the risk. I and many other LL's would be delighted to see a return to sanity on all fronts; lower rents in exchange for actually being able to do something if people don't pay and/or damage the property.
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09-11-2018, 17:28   #21
Baby01032012
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This might be a mad suggestion, but rather than these extremes, could it just be the case that the truth lies somewhere in the middle??
I'd like to agree but the answer is no....look at the volume of small landlords leaving the sector...huge decrease in RTB registrations etc. Only positive for REITS/funds who have large economies of scale who pay no taxes and bought in bulk at discount from NAMA.
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09-11-2018, 18:02   #22
TheChizler
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Yes when there was less charges and taxes. Landlords very well may be charging higher rents but keeping less of it now. Right now I get less than when the rent was lower. So why would I praise this situation while people like yourself think I am better off and being greedy when I am not.You also ignore the years of heavy losses when rents dropped.
When were rent and charges significantly lower? Or when were the rules that are commonly complained about substantially different? Apart from the RPZ rules which came in after market rents had jumped significantly, there haven't been major changes in recent years IMO.
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09-11-2018, 18:05   #23
LuckyLloyd
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I'd like to agree but the answer is no....look at the volume of small landlords leaving the sector...huge decrease in RTB registrations etc. Only positive for REITS/funds who have large economies of scale who pay no taxes and bought in bulk at discount from NAMA.
There was only a 2% year on year drop in RTB registrations over the past year and that can just as easily be attributed to the sale market and move out of negative equity for accidental landlords as anything else.
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09-11-2018, 18:07   #24
Franz Von Peppercorn
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People are getting exactly what they wanted, large REITs buying entire blocks, that's working out just dandy. Yeilds will continue to be high as a new apartment can be put on at 'market rate' plus a bit for the luxury nature of the rental, pushing that market rate higher for the next block purchased.

People who think private LL's have it easy with the risks involved are simply out of touch with the actual reality.
REITs are landlords.
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09-11-2018, 18:41   #25
Ray Palmer
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When were rent and charges significantly lower? Or when were the rules that are commonly complained about substantially different? Apart from the RPZ rules which came in after market rents had jumped significantly, there haven't been major changes in recent years IMO.
It isn't a matter of opinion it fact that PRSI and USC were added to rental income. So that is 10% in the last 3 years. On top of the LPT and PRTB charges. In case you don't know insurance has also gone up.

To recoup a €1 decrease is at least €2.20 increase in rent required due to tax. Again you ignored the losses made when rent dropped which tenants broke leases to get but their is no repercussions for the tenant but a landlord can be fined if they do.

Landlords are worse off with the higher rents due to increases in costs, charges and tax is a fact
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09-11-2018, 18:48   #26
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It's like farmers and the weather. If it rains its too wet, if it doesn't rain its too dry.

Apparently the only thing worse than rents being low is rents being high.
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09-11-2018, 19:22   #27
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When were rent and charges significantly lower? Or when were the rules that are commonly complained about substantially different? Apart from the RPZ rules which came in after market rents had jumped significantly, there haven't been major changes in recent years IMO.
It isn't a matter of opinion it fact that PRSI and USC were added to rental income. So that is 10% in the last 3 years. On top of the LPT and PRTB charges. In case you don't know insurance has also gone up.

To recoup a €1 decrease is at least €2.20 increase in rent required due to tax. Again you ignored the losses made when rent dropped which tenants broke leases to get but their is no repercussions for the tenant but a landlord can be fined if they do.

Landlords are worse off with the higher rents due to increases in costs, charges and tax is a fact
You always paid PRSI on rental income if you were self employed so you cant complain they brought this in. But that was 2012, way before the recovery.
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09-11-2018, 19:38   #28
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There was only a 2% year on year drop in RTB registrations over the past year and that can just as easily be attributed to the sale market and move out of negative equity for accidental landlords as anything else.
That's 1 landlord in 50 leaving a market with the highest gross yields in Europe and massive shortages of rental accomodation. That also doesn't account for the increased scope of the RTB to cover housing agencies which is masking the real level of the decline.

Why do you think that is..........?
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09-11-2018, 20:09   #29
lcwill
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Not a shock that yields in Ireland are the highest in Europe. Mortgage interest rates are also at the upper end of European tables. Risk of Buy2Let investment in Ireland is so high that high yields are going to be necessary to attract investment.

Yield is only one consideration in a Buy2Let investment. It shows that rent prices are high relative to the cost of buying a property. If you want lower rent relative to house prices, you need to address costs (mortgage interest rates on Buy2Let etc.) and address risk (an efficient and reliable eviction system for rogue tenants)."
I'm a landlord in Ireland and Italy - headline yields are dramatically different but there are so many other factors: in Italy I set the rent based on a government determined formula and pay tax at 10%, tenants pay the building management fees and most repairs, unfurnished is the norm, no capital gains tax if you hold for 5 years or more, and basically no inheritance tax.
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09-11-2018, 20:18   #30
TheChizler
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Originally Posted by Ray Palmer View Post
It isn't a matter of opinion it fact that PRSI and USC were added to rental income. So that is 10% in the last 3 years. On top of the LPT and PRTB charges. In case you don't know insurance has also gone up.

To recoup a €1 decrease is at least €2.20 increase in rent required due to tax. Again you ignored the losses made when rent dropped which tenants broke leases to get but their is no repercussions for the tenant but a landlord can be fined if they do.

Landlords are worse off with the higher rents due to increases in costs, charges and tax is a fact
I wasn't aware of those, hence me asking. So all those things are new?
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