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Record video in an apartment block

  • 24-11-2020 12:48pm
    #1
    SoberAsABird
    Registered Users Posts: 14 ✭


    Is it legal to install and use a doorbell equipped with a camera that is motion activated in an apartment block? The device would be on my apartment door so the camera faces into a communal corridor i.e. not public, only the residents and buzzed in guests of residents should have access to this corridor.

    My concern though is the camera activates and records not just people ringing at my door (which in itself may or may not be an issue from what little I know) but also my neighbours and their guests.

    I'm on the fence as technically the camera isn't recording anything that I could not see myself hypothetically if I'd been standing at my door in place of the camera. Does the fact that it's recording when activated by motion change that? Or would me telling v not telling my neighbours in advance make any difference?

    One small edit is the camera, I believe, would also catch and record a small part of the inside of my neighbours apartment as they enter and exit.

    Thanks in advance!


Comments

  • #2
    IAMAMORON
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 9,078 ✭✭✭IAMAMORON


    Yes it is.

    The common areas of the apartment, ie, hallways, are also within your ( shared ) private space.


  • #3
    joeguevara
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,099 ✭✭✭joeguevara


    IAMAMORON wrote: »
    Yes it is.

    The common areas of the apartment, ie, hallways, are also within your ( shared ) private space.

    Do you think it makes an impact that they get to record the inside of their neighbours apartment when their neighbour opens and closes their door when entering and leaving their private dwelling?


  • #4
    IAMAMORON
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 9,078 ✭✭✭IAMAMORON


    joeguevara wrote: »
    Do you think it makes an impact that they get to record the inside of their neighbours apartment when their neighbour opens and closes their door when entering and leaving their private dwelling?

    I don't know, but I just pray that the op is not the usual piss-taker who makes up a plethora of differing and yet highly unlikely scenarios so people pass comment on them. I cannot see how a camera outside his front door is managing to look into a neighbour's for starters? Fingers crossed the op is genuine.


  • #5
    GerardKeating
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,712 ✭✭✭GerardKeating


    SoberAsABird wrote: »
    Is it legal to install and use a doorbell equipped with a camera that is motion activated in an apartment block?

    Aside from the legal issues, perhaps check the lease and/or management company rules to see if your particular apartment complex has any rules on this.


  • #6
    Lenar3556
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,520 ✭✭✭Lenar3556


    Strictly, it is likely at the discretion of the owners management company, and or the terms of your lease. Cameras which have facility to record common areas, and more particularly the entry way to other apartments could possibly be an issue.

    Have you been asked to remove whatever you have put up?

    It’s not unreasonable for you to want to know who is at your door before you open it. Hopefully some accommodation can be arrived at. There are also some ‘peep holes’ which have an inbuilt camera. From the outside nobody would know it was anything more.


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  • #7
    wench
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,651 ✭✭✭wench


    IAMAMORON wrote: »
    I cannot see how a camera outside his front door is managing to look into a neighbour's for starters? Fingers crossed the op is genuine.
    Easily enough done, I've lived in an apartment before where the last in the row had a door at 90 degrees to the others, looking along the walkway instead of across it.
    And OP mentions a corridor, they could be opposite the neighbour.


  • #8
    SoberAsABird
    Registered Users Posts: 14 ✭SoberAsABird


    IAMAMORON wrote: »
    I don't know, but I just pray that the op is not the usual piss-taker who makes up a plethora of differing and yet highly unlikely scenarios so people pass comment on them. I cannot see how a camera outside his front door is managing to look into a neighbour's for starters? Fingers crossed the op is genuine.

    Never used this area before so didn't realise that was a thing here. I would gain absolutely nothing from watching people go back and forth. I'm just asking for help and trying to be as clear and concise as possible.

    My front door is about 2 or 3 metre away (across the corridor) from my neighbours. So they're not really my next door neighbour in the sense that their door isn't to the left or right of mine they're across the hall. So if their door is open I see their kitchen.


  • #9
    IAMAMORON
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 9,078 ✭✭✭IAMAMORON


    SoberAsABird wrote: »
    Never used this area before so didn't realise that was a thing here. I would gain absolutely nothing from watching people go back and forth. I'm just asking for help and trying to be as clear and concise as possible.

    My front door is about 2 or 3 metre away (across the corridor) from my neighbours. So they're not really my next door neighbour in the sense that their door isn't to the left or right of mine they're across the hall. So if their door is open I see their kitchen.

    Ok I thought as much.

    Can you supply a diagram, it would be really helpful?

    What colour tiles are in their kitchen?

    Thanks.


  • #10
    SoberAsABird
    Registered Users Posts: 14 ✭SoberAsABird


    Lenar3556 wrote: »
    Strictly, it is likely at the discretion of the owners management company, and or the terms of your lease. Cameras which have facility to record common areas, and more particularly the entry way to other apartments could possibly be an issue.

    Have you been asked to remove whatever you have put up?

    It’s not unreasonable for you to want to know who is at your door before you open it. Hopefully some accommodation can be arrived at. There are also some ‘peep holes’ which have an inbuilt camera. From the outside nobody would know it was anything more.

    I haven't properly installed it yet. I stickied it temporarily to where I'm going to put it to test it out and thats when I noticed the camera did activate as people walked up to my door and my neighbours so that's when I started to wonder.

    I'll run it by the landlord as I've been here years so know them quite well.


  • #11
    SoberAsABird
    Registered Users Posts: 14 ✭SoberAsABird


    IAMAMORON wrote: »
    Ok I thought as much.

    Can you supply a diagram, it would be really helpful?

    What colour tiles are in their kitchen?

    Thanks.

    I can't tell if you're being serious or not. How would the colour of the tiles be relevant?

    If this is another question of my sincerity then I'll ask a mod to just delete the post because if I'd known I'd be met with this suspicion I never would have asked the question here.


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  • #12
    IAMAMORON
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 9,078 ✭✭✭IAMAMORON


    SoberAsABird wrote: »
    I can't tell if you're being serious or not. How would the colour of the tiles be relevant?

    If this is another question of my sincerity then I'll ask a mod to just delete the post because if I'd known I'd be met with this suspicion I never would have asked the question here.

    Ah no please don't.

    What about the diagram?


  • #13
    Caranica
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 10,141 ✭✭✭✭Caranica


    This might drive you crazy. I have a camera doorbell for my duplex. I share a set of steps to my front door with one other duplex. They trigger the motion sensor about 20 times more than my door does.


  • #14
    SoberAsABird
    Registered Users Posts: 14 ✭SoberAsABird


    IAMAMORON wrote: »
    Ah no please don't.

    What about the diagram?

    Alright. Well I would thank you for your initial advice but given you were the only one here who, from the start, couldn't grasp the concept of an apartment doorway facing another I'm going to completely ignore it in favor of the advice from other people who were capable of visualising in more than two dimensions.


  • #15
    IAMAMORON
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 9,078 ✭✭✭IAMAMORON


    SoberAsABird wrote: »
    Alright. Well I would thank you for your initial advice but given you were the only one here who, from the start, couldn't grasp the concept of an apartment doorway facing another I'm going to completely ignore it in favor of the advice from other people who were capable of visualising in more than two dimensions.

    I would have thought that a simple diagram would be able to give a firm illustration of this predicament you are incurring?

    To be honest I am more struggling to grasp how a camera above a doorway is getting a birdseye view of your neighbours kitchen?

    A diagram would surely help everyone get a more robust angle at what is happening?

    Do you own the apartment?


  • #16
    SoberAsABird
    Registered Users Posts: 14 ✭SoberAsABird


    IAMAMORON wrote: »
    I would have thought that a simple diagram would be able to give a firm illustration of this predicament you are incurring?

    To be honest I am more struggling to grasp how a camera above a doorway is getting a birdseye view of your neighbours kitchen?

    A diagram would surely help everyone get a more robust angle at what is happening?

    Do you own the apartment?

    I mentioned a landlord. So what do you think?

    Simple Diagram below.
    DOOR1
    DOOR2

    Behind door number 1 is a kitchen/living room.
    Behind door number 2? Same.

    The camera, I might have mentioned, is on the doorbell. I was going to be completely bonkers and put the doorbell beside the door at approx chest height but having read your suggestion of placing it over the doorway... Well I must admit I'm a fan. That way people will need a ladder to press it so while they're ringing to bother me with whatever they've come for I can rush out and knock them off the ladder. Can you advise me legally where I would stand on that? Or would you need more diagrams?


  • #17
    IAMAMORON
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 9,078 ✭✭✭IAMAMORON


    SoberAsABird wrote: »
    I mentioned a landlord. So what do you think?

    Simple Diagram below.
    DOOR1
    DOOR2

    Behind door number 1 is a kitchen/living room.
    Behind door number 2? Same.

    The camera, I might have mentioned, is on the doorbell. I was going to be completely bonkers and put the doorbell beside the door at approx chest height but having read your suggestion of placing it over the doorway... Well I must admit I'm a fan. That way people will need a ladder to press it so while they're ringing to bother me with whatever they've come for I can rush out and knock them off the ladder. Can you advise me legally where I would stand on that? Or would you need more diagrams?

    I am not so sure tbh.

    What type of camera is it, as in, what model camera?

    It sounds sneaky enough, considering it fits into your doorbell?

    What is the model type of the camera?


  • #18
    Caranica
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 10,141 ✭✭✭✭Caranica


    Also consider that the management company might have an issue with you installing a doorbell if you don't already have one as to do so would involve drilling into common area walls.


  • #19
    SoberAsABird
    Registered Users Posts: 14 ✭SoberAsABird


    IAMAMORON wrote: »
    I am not so sure tbh.

    What type of camera is it, as in, what model camera?

    It sounds sneaky enough, considering it fits into your doorbell?

    What is the model type of the camera?

    Don't know to be honest. It's one of these yokes MiTec Miview II Video Doorbell. The camera lens is visible so I dont think it's sneaky as it's not being concealed.

    I'm going to lean on the side of not putting it up and just returning it. If it confounds the neighbours a fraction of how much it's confused you It's not worth it. And as others pointed out it's not as useful as one would think.

    Let me know where we are with the knocking people off ladders query.

    Edit. Spelling.


  • #20
    Del2005
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 19,031 ✭✭✭✭Del2005


    You are renting, but even if you owned the apartment, you don't own the walls or doors outside of the apartment so you can't modify them to attach the camera.

    Technically nearly all video doorbells are illegal as domestic CCTV shouldn't record public areas and most do. You will be installing it in a private area where the other residents have an expectation of privacy, so unless the management company already have CCTV already installed in the corridors I doubt it's legal or allowed.


  • #21
    SoberAsABird
    Registered Users Posts: 14 ✭SoberAsABird


    Caranica wrote: »
    Also consider that the management company might have an issue with you installing a doorbell if you don't already have one as to do so would involve drilling into common area walls.

    Cheers. Good catch. It's got an adhesive strip on it so I wouldn't need to drill.


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  • #22
    SoberAsABird
    Registered Users Posts: 14 ✭SoberAsABird


    Del2005 wrote: »
    You are renting, but even if you owned the apartment, you don't own the walls or doors outside of the apartment so you can't modify them to attach the camera.

    Technically nearly all video doorbells are illegal as domestic CCTV shouldn't record public areas and most do. You will be installing it in a private area where the other residents have an expectation of privacy, so unless the management company already have CCTV already installed in the corridors I doubt it's legal or allowed.

    Okay that sorts it then. Appreciate the advice.


  • #23
    Sam Quentin
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,229 ✭✭✭Sam Quentin


    Put the cameras up, everybody should have cameras in this day and age that we live in...


  • #24
    Caranica
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 10,141 ✭✭✭✭Caranica


    SoberAsABird wrote: »
    Cheers. Good catch. It's got an adhesive strip on it so I wouldn't need to drill.

    Easily ripped off so. The ring doorbell has theft proof screws to avoid this.


  • #25
    SoberAsABird
    Registered Users Posts: 14 ✭SoberAsABird


    Caranica wrote: »
    Easily ripped off so. The ring doorbell has theft proof screws to avoid this.

    Yes, that's probably a fair observation. It did come with screws too but like you said the landlord may well have given grief if I'd done that.

    At least I'd have been able to partially record the thieves! Illegally as it turns out...


  • #26
    mea_k
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 219 ✭✭mea_k


    Why would you need one of them for, as you stated every person needs to be buzzed in. And no daubt there is cctv right outside the door?


  • #27
    Samuel T. Cogley
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 10,684 ✭✭✭✭Samuel T. Cogley


    They're £30 off at the moment - I know because I bought one at £89 the week before which is going back. You can set up the zones it picks up motion in its got great granularity. Also if it's the one I'm thinking off, you get a new one free if it gets nicked. Just the one though but my logic was if mine got nicked I'd sell on the replacement.


  • #28
    IAMAMORON
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 9,078 ✭✭✭IAMAMORON


    Samuel T. Cogley wrote: »
    They're £30 off at the moment - I know because I bought one at £89 the week before which is going back. You can set up the zones it picks up motion in its got great granularity. Also if it's the one I'm thinking off, you get a new one free if it gets nicked. Just the one though but my logic was if mine got nicked I'd sell on the replacement.

    Does it have a motion detector like the Ops one and is it able to override the standard bell and camera system which are prevalent in apartments?


  • #29
    Samuel T. Cogley
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 10,684 ✭✭✭✭Samuel T. Cogley


    IAMAMORON wrote: »
    Does it have a motion detector like the Ops one and is it able to override the standard bell and camera system which are prevalent in apartments?

    No it just sits outside the gaff, doesn't do anything with any existing system.

    It has quite sophisticated motion detection, you can set different zones. I'm assuming the OP is talking about a 'Ring'.

    Also it won't store the video unless the OP subscribes to their cloud service, it's just live view.


  • #30
    IAMAMORON
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 9,078 ✭✭✭IAMAMORON


    Samuel T. Cogley wrote: »
    No it just sits outside the gaff, doesn't do anything with any existing system.

    It has quite sophisticated motion detection, you can set different zones. I'm assuming the OP is talking about a 'Ring'.

    Also it won't store the video unless the OP subscribes to their cloud service, it's just live view.

    What is the point in having video unless it records?


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  • #31
    SoberAsABird
    Registered Users Posts: 14 ✭SoberAsABird


    mea_k wrote: »
    Why would you need one of them for, as you stated every person needs to be buzzed in. And no daubt there is cctv right outside the door?

    There are longer answers but a short one is I'd prefer not to answer my door to anyone/everyone who gets past the apartment building buzzer door without knowing if I want to talk to them.


  • #32
    Del2005
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 19,031 ✭✭✭✭Del2005


    SoberAsABird wrote: »
    There are longer answers but a short one is I'd prefer not to answer my door to anyone/everyone who gets past the apartment building buzzer door without knowing if I want to talk to them.

    Then don't answer your door unless someone has rang/text to let you know they are coming or you are expecting a delivery. Same for the buzzer, tell everyone who will be calling to ring or text you when outside and then buzz them in. I know plenty of people who don't answer their door if they aren't expecting anyone, they've even had people knocking on the window while they watch TV to get their attention and still won't answer the door.


  • #33
    Samuel T. Cogley
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 10,684 ✭✭✭✭Samuel T. Cogley


    IAMAMORON wrote: »
    What is the point in having video unless it records?

    You can sell the doorbell at about / under cost and then charge €30 a year for cloud services. No point in asking me I just bought a kettle that I can control from my phone that connected to my wifi by blinking the screen so I'm probably a bit biased.

    Someone must like the idea though as Amazon bought the company for a billion dollars.


  • #34
    Marcusm
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 10,437 ✭✭✭✭Marcusm


    Samuel T. Cogley wrote: »
    You can sell the doorbell at about / under cost and then charge €30 a year for cloud services. No point in asking me I just bought a kettle that I can control from my phone that connected to my wifi by blinking the screen so I'm probably a bit biased.

    Someone must like the idea though as Amazon bought the company for a billion dollars.

    STC, OMG your privacy is now completely gone as the tech company will now know how often you boil your kettle! That’s less concerning than the voice activated services or (my personal hate) Tesco Clubcard (Dunhunby) which was set up to capture data in a manner similar to Facebook. At one point they thought they might spin it off for a goodly approximation of the group’s overall value.


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