new coronavirus outbreak China, Korea, USA - mod warnings in OP (updated 24/02/20)

ceadaoin. · 29-01-2020 3:39pm

pc7 wrote: »

You could try amazon but think delivery dates pushed out, you need a N95 type at minimum

You could try a hardware shop. Apparently some.of the masks sold there for painting etc are pretty much the same thing and they definitely arent out of stock here yet (US)

Snow Garden · 29-01-2020 3:40pm

wakka12 wrote: »

Many estimates have put the coronavirus mortality rate at between 2-4% and seasonal flu as 0.1%, both figures are widely disseminated and easily accessible

Let's be clear though. SARS was a coronavirus and killed less than 800 people worldwide. It had a fatality rate of 11%.

frillyleaf · 29-01-2020 3:41pm

clever user name wrote: »

The urgency comes to down to the fact that there's 1.4 billion people in China and travelling in between cities/provinces here is extremely easy. Add to that the fact that more Chinese people than ever are travelling abroad. Unless extreme measures are taken then this really has the opportunity to become a global pandemic. As much as the Chinese government has been the butt of many a joke the last few months, there's very few countries in the world that have the basically cordon off a province of 50 million people. If they hadn't done that, I guarantee a good portion of the population of Wuhan would have left to other cities to escape (and some abroad); a percentage of whom would have taken the virus with them.

As for the virus itself, I'm not a virologist so I can only go by what I've heard. It seems to be more contagious than the flu. I've heard varying reports, anywhere from an R0 of 1.5, up to as high as 6.0. Think of it this way, thousands of people every year get the flu over the course of a 'flu season'. If they need to be hospitalized, not an issue. They go to the hospital and get treated. Now add in the fact that this virus apparently causes viral pneumonia in a decent percentage of cases. Even moderate respiratory issues need seeing too. So instead of a a trickle of flu patients over the course of weeks/months, you've got potentially thousands of patients needing treatment, all in the space of a week. Christ, Chinese hospitals are already always jammed on a normal day (as are hospitals in most other countries).

So yes, while panic is probably not warranted in Western Europe just yet, unless extreme measures are taken who knows what could happen.

Thank you. Imagine the HSE trying to deal with this! I’m surprised we aren’t doing what UK and Australia are doing with quarantine as it sounds like urgent action needs to be taken. Even if we don’t have a direct flight there is still possibility of it getting here.

If the cities are in lock down is that making it safe for us? Seems a bit lax if it’s as serious as this.

volchitsa · 29-01-2020 3:42pm

Deleted User wrote: »

TBH, I suspect the average Chinese person wouldn't really lose that much with an economic downturn. Salaries are typically quite low (few above the 5k mark) outside of the Tier 1 cities, as is the general cost of living. And so the average Chinese person tends to live a rather frugal lifestyle with their money going towards "face" items. I would imagine we'd just see a massive reduction of foreign products being bought, and a return to the cheaper lifestyle.

It's the rich/wealthy that would be affected the most.

As for unrest, again I wouldn't be too quick to imagine a harsh attitude against Xi. He's got massive support from the "peasants" and lower middle class. A degree of government support to maintain their existing lives would likely offset any real issues. More likely, criticism would be turned towards external targets, such as Japan/US/ foreigners in general. There would be a lot of people who would accept separating the issues of an economic downturn, and the actual virus itself.

TBH The government has a lot of ways to swing public opinion in China. It really depends on just how severe the cost in life is from the virus, and even then, many Chinese are very flippant about such things. Life is cheap is a common attitude when it doesn't directly affect them..

The rest of your post makes sense, but the bit in bold puzzles me: I'd understand it if it weren't for the one child policy, but surely now that most people will have one child and one grandchild, there has to have been a corresponding change in social attitudes?

Even if they don't care about their neighbours' child dying, wouldn't you expect there to be widespread protest about a high deathrate precisely because their own children are also at risk?

Nijmegen · 29-01-2020 3:42pm

Re surgical masks, I'd forget about them. Snapped up already. Company was speaking to several suppliers who've said end-Feb at best, but if it gets worse their fear is their suppliers will sell on to higher demand areas at a better price. Also, loads of these products are Made In... You guessed it, and likely to be snapped up. End Feb either this will have blown over and you don't need them or it's so bad you won't get them.

Re social unrest in China, they have.... Ways... Of keeping everything under control. The difference in China to, say, Ireland is that you know in China that if you rock up to the local Lidl during a crisis event to take it apart with a stolen digger, they will shoot and kill you no bother or send you off to a "re-education camp" if you're bold. The current president made his name ferreting out corrupt officials and executed quite a few.

Germany now joining the evacuation train and planning quarantine for those brought back. Companies stopping their employees travelling. People voting with their feet.

bb12 · 29-01-2020 3:44pm

Snow Garden wrote: »

Let's be clear though. SARS was a coronavirus and killed less than 800 people worldwide. It had a fatality rate of 11%.

yes but SARS infected 8000 people between 2002-2003....this has infected >6000 in just a couple of weeks

29-01-2020 3:54pm

volchitsa wrote: »

The rest of your post makes sense, but the bit in bold puzzles me: I'd understand it if it weren't for the one child policy, but surely now that most people will have one child and one grandchild, there has to have been a corresponding change in social attitudes?

Even if they don't care about their neighbours' child dying, wouldn't you expect there to be widespread protest about a high deathrate precisely because their own children are also at risk?

IMHO, Chinese people are rather selfish, and inward looking. Sure, they'll complain online but when it comes to real life, they only look at what immediately affects themselves. The aspect of life is cheap is reinforced because of their history with the great leap and subsequent famines. There's a massive gap in sympathy or interest between different provinces.. almost as if they're entirely different countries at times.

The thing is what would they expect the Chinese government to do about it? It's so easy to pass blame and responsibility within Chinese culture. Personally, I fully expect Xi to link the failure of hospitals to have sufficient medicine on hand to his own campaign against corruption, and removing those politically against him. We'll see dozens of scapegoats, and the people will mostly accept it because the alternative course of action is too aggressive or dangerous.

29-01-2020 3:59pm

Nijmegen wrote: »

Re social unrest in China, they have.... Ways... Of keeping everything under control. The difference in China to, say, Ireland is that you know in China that if you rock up to the local Lidl during a crisis event to take it apart with a stolen digger, they will shoot and kill you no bother or send you off to a "re-education camp" if you're bold. The current president made his name ferreting out corrupt officials and executed quite a few.

Traditional Chinese culture also provides a host of ways for them to keep control. People seem to disregard what China was like under the Nationalists and again, the Empire. They've got thousand of years of social programming, and the Government knows how to pull those strings without ever showing the fist. It's just when they get frightened that they switch to the more obvious forms of oppression.

Call Me Jimmy · 29-01-2020 4:00pm

Yurt! wrote: »

Quite frankly, the greater danger now is if all these shutdowns persist and profiteering with foodstuffs takes hold, social unrest is a real possibility.

Mainland Chinese have a scarcity mentality being just a generation removed from food insecurity and famine. This is my pet theory, but I hold it's why you see people queuing for gaudy Italian handbags or paying thousands of dollars online for limited edition Nikes. The collective memory of want will mean that if certain food items become thin on the ground and unscrupulous individuals profiteer from it, things will get bad.

This is quite apart from an already sluggish economy with some crazy examples of misallocated capital.

China doesn't have the social or civic infrastructure to cope with an economic jolt that will harm the economy for months on end.

Completely agree, it seems likely even with an extremely positive outlook for the virus, there'll be social unrest the kind this iteration of the government has never seen. On the other hand if the numbers estimated by epidemiologists in top universities manifest, I am convinced Wuhan / Hubei will require 'physical intervention'.

Early indications of people homes being 'marked' and physically barricaded, and a clash with police while again 'unverified', point to what I was expecting, a slow cracking at the epicenter.

Let's not forget, the effect of the lockdown and advise on other major cities is huge. We have never seen anything like this, economically, psychologically, logistically speaking. It's just a giant experiment that counts on the virus being controlled VERY quickly.

clever user name · 29-01-2020 4:00pm

frillyleaf wrote: »

Thank you. Imagine the HSE trying to deal with this! I’m surprised we aren’t doing what UK and Australia are doing with quarantine as it sounds like urgent action needs to be taken. Even if we don’t have a direct flight there is still possibility of it getting here.

If the cities are in lock down is that making it safe for us? Seems a bit lax if it’s as serious as this.

They locked down the epicenter, where it originated, so that will of course help. The problem is it's impossible to keep track of everyone who left before that area was locked down. Take this with a grain of salt, but they reckon more than a million people (conservative estimate) could have left before Wuhan and the surrounding areas before was shut down. That might sound like a lot, but when you consider it's Chinese New Year and everyone travels to visit family it's not quite so outlandish. So I can fully understand countries cancelling flights. My personal opinion is that all is being done to prevent the worst case scenario. Could China have done something sooner? Probably, but when is the right time to seal off a city larger than London? I wouldn't want to be the one calling that.

Oranage2 · 29-01-2020 4:01pm

clever user name wrote: »

They locked down the epicenter, where it originated, so that will of course help. The problem is it's impossible to keep track of everyone who left before that area was locked down. Take this with a grain of salt, but they reckon more than a million people (conservative estimate) could have left before Wuhan and the surrounding areas before was shut down. That might sound like a lot, but when you consider it's Chinese New Year and everyone travels to visit family it's not quite so outlandish. So I can fully understand countries cancelling flights. My personal opinion is that all is being done to prevent the worst case scenario. Could China have done something sooner? Probably, but when is the right time to seal off a city larger than London? I wouldn't want to be the one calling that.

The Wuhan mayor said 5 million left before the lock down.

Call Me Jimmy · 29-01-2020 4:03pm

Also, regarding the relative 180 in the acceleration of confirmed cases in Hubei yesterday, one thing that seemed to happen is the suspected cases had continued on the original trajectory, while the confirmed new cases rate did u-turn.

Anyone here who knows more about this stuff have a take on this?

4068ac1elhodqr · 29-01-2020 4:07pm

wakka12 wrote: »

Asian people may be much more susceptible to the coronavirus than people of european or african descent, may explain why it is spreading so much faster there

Honestly, this sounds like pure nonsense. If it comes from bat/snakes, it won't care what type of human it effects, or what their skin colour is.

It originated in a wet market in a city about the size of London, hence that is why Wuhan is the epicentre, to great (not) surprise.

clever user name · 29-01-2020 4:07pm

Oranage2 wrote: »

The Wuhan mayor said 5 million left before the lock down.

Yes I heard that, but I only heard it secondhand so didn't want to stick that figure in there without a source. God knows there's enough crap being spread around.

29-01-2020 4:09pm

clever user name wrote: »

They locked down the epicenter, where it originated, so that will of course help. The problem is it's impossible to keep track of everyone who left before that area was locked down. Take this with a grain of salt, but they reckon more than a million people (conservative estimate) could have left before Wuhan and the surrounding areas before was shut down. That might sound like a lot, but when you consider it's Chinese New Year and everyone travels to visit family it's not quite so outlandish. So I can fully understand countries cancelling flights. My personal opinion is that all is being done to prevent the worst case scenario. Could China have done something sooner? Probably, but when is the right time to seal off a city larger than London? I wouldn't want to be the one calling that.

Wuhan is a major travel/transportation hub for China. The idea of closing it down during Spring Festival would have required some serious discussion within the upper echelons of the government. Closing it down without solid reasons would have pissed off a lot of people...

This virus has jumped in severity rather quickly. At the time of the original disclosure, it could have been just another small problem that disappeared on its own. They gambled and lost. I could see that happening to many countries.

I don't think most people here understand what Chinese cities are like. It's one thing to say 9 million people, it's another thing to actually see it for yourself, and then to appreciate the logistics in controlling them. And then to consider the way that such cities are organised, and the closeness of the countryside. It would be quite easy for people to pass a cordon in most Chinese cities considering that many cities aren't planned very well.

29-01-2020 4:14pm

Oranage2 wrote: »

The Wuhan mayor said 5 million left before the lock down.

Wuhan averages around 11 million... and would have received millions of people travelling to the city to change "trains/flights/river transport" for other destinations. 5 million might have left.. sure.. I can see that. I can also see a few million getting stuck in Wuhan because their transport was stopped during the quarantine.

Spring festival is easily the craziest period in China, and I've never seen anywhere else which comes even close in terms of the numbers of people moving around. I did it once. Xi'an to Beijing by train (not High speed). Never again. Couldn't pay me any amount of money to endure that again.

wakka12 · 29-01-2020 4:14pm

Legacy Better Explosion wrote: »

Honestly, this sounds like pure nonsense. If it comes from bat/snakes, it won't care what type of human it effects, or what their skin colour is.

It originated in a wet market in a city about the size of London, hence that is why Wuhan is the epicentre, to great (not) surprise.

How does it sound like nonsense? There is great difference in susceptibility to a range of disease within different human races and ethnicities

Muir · 29-01-2020 4:21pm

Call Me Jimmy wrote: »

Also, regarding the relative 180 in the acceleration of confirmed cases in Hubei yesterday, one thing that seemed to happen is the suspected cases had continued on the original trajectory, while the confirmed new cases rate did u-turn.

Anyone here who knows more about this stuff have a take on this?

It could be down to the number of people they're currently able to test in a day. Don't know that for certain, just a possibility.

frillyleaf · 29-01-2020 4:21pm

Legacy Better Explosion wrote: »

Honestly, this sounds like pure nonsense. If it comes from bat/snakes, it won't care what type of human it effects, or what their skin colour is.

It originated in a wet market in a city about the size of London, hence that is why Wuhan is the epicentre, to great (not) surprise.

What is a wet market ?

pc7 · 29-01-2020 4:22pm

Klaz are you in contact with any of your friends/colleagues still in Wuhan?

clever user name · 29-01-2020 4:23pm

Deleted User wrote: »

Wuhan is a major travel/transportation hub for China. The idea of closing it down during Spring Festival would have required some serious discussion within the upper echelons of the government. Closing it down without solid reasons would have pissed off a lot of people...

This virus has jumped in severity rather quickly. At the time of the original disclosure, it could have been just another small problem that disappeared on its own. They gambled and lost. I could see that happening to many countries.

I don't think most people here understand what Chinese cities are like. It's one thing to say 9 million people, it's another thing to actually see it for yourself, and then to appreciate the logistics in controlling them. And then to consider the way that such cities are organised, and the closeness of the countryside. It would be quite easy for people to pass a cordon in most Chinese cities considering that many cities aren't planned very well.

Yeah a very small window of time to make a decision that affects millions. I'd wager that they still did it quicker than most countries would have. But that goes with your point above about the Chinese mentality when it comes to government. Most countries simply wouldn't get away with it. I've lived in three large cities here and been to countless others, and still get my mind blown by the scope of theses places. Never mind how you manage to seal one off from the rest of the country.

wakka12 · 29-01-2020 4:23pm

frillyleaf wrote: »

What is a wet market ?

I think it just means that wild animals are sold there. Dont know why its called 'wet' though

29-01-2020 4:28pm

wakka12 wrote: »

I think it just means that wild animals are sold there. Dont know why its called 'wet' though

Animals are butchered and then sold there. The wet refers to the blood. Don't go looking for images on google in work, or just before dinner.

29-01-2020 4:29pm

pc7 wrote: »

Klaz are you in contact with any of your friends/colleagues still in Wuhan?

I've never worked or lived in Wuhan... I've only been there for parties/weddings.

Between the heat, and the traffic....Not a city I'd want to live in.

pc7 · 29-01-2020 4:31pm

Deleted User wrote: »

I've never worked or lived in Wuhan... I've only been there for parties/weddings.

Between the heat, and the traffic....Not a city I'd want to live in.

Amazing experience getting to live in China, very lucky.

Ger Roe · 29-01-2020 4:32pm

wakka12 wrote: »

I think it just means that wild animals are sold there. Dont know why its called 'wet' though

From Wikipedia : "A wet market is a market selling fresh meat, fish, produce, and other perishable goods as distinguished from "dry markets" which sell durable goods such as fabric and electronics"

I have seen some video's on youtube with western people showing off around these places for the shock value. Its horrific stuff... blood, guts,fish, bats, snakes, cats, turtles all being 'prepared' in the open on market stalls and in some cases on dirty ground. Live animals being slaughtered on demand their innards displayed and their bodily fluids running everywhere. No sensitivities are spared and absolutely no hygiene practices even attempted to be observed.

No wonder a virus developed. It might be a cultural thing, but it was too much for me to watch.

4068ac1elhodqr · 29-01-2020 4:34pm

wakka12 wrote: »

How does it sound like nonsense? There is great difference in susceptibility to a range of disease within different human races and ethnicities

The article you linked to uses a very small (8) sample group, isn't peer reviewed or original, and only refers to a single (55yo) Asian male donor for the main sample studied.

You also indicated it's spreading faster in Asia due to 'this', however that regions and it's sub-region is the densely populated source(basin) of the virus.
As you know, it's now starting to go global.

joeguevara · 29-01-2020 4:34pm

frillyleaf wrote: »

What is a wet market ?

Wet markets were traditionally places that sold dead and live animals out in the open. This includes poultry, fish, reptiles, and pigs. live fish, shellfish, and frogs are widely available.

Widely reported that live Koalas and bats are being sold in wet markets in China for food.

megatron989 · 29-01-2020 4:37pm

bb12 wrote: »

yes but SARS infected 8000 people between 2002-2003....this has infected >6000 in just a couple of weeks

Don't bother. Some people here seem hell bent on advising against preparing for this in any way. Sure it'll be grand they say.
Personally I will be taking steps to ensure me and mine can if necessary hunker down or at least hold up and sweat out a bad flu at home. So stocking up on some tinned and frozen / dried foods, hidration salts, whatever I can fit into the house. We already keep a supply of long shelf life foods at home.
It's no harm at all in taking these simple steps, personally I doubt it'll be needed but just in case, I'll be positioned to withstand more than I could should I do nothing now.

Think of it like the snow. They forecast it and the same lads here say it'll never happen. Then it happens and the local lidl turns all Lord of the flys. Now you wish when you'd seen the forecast you'd stocked a few loves of bread.

frillyleaf · 29-01-2020 4:39pm

[Deleted User] wrote: »

Animals are butchered and then sold there. The wet refers to the blood. Don't go looking for images on google in work, or just before dinner.

Thanks, I didn’t want to look it up

29-01-2020 4:39pm

pc7 wrote: »

Amazing experience getting to live in China, very lucky.

I worked in Oz, and the company I worked for had a lot of Chinese clients. Came here first as a Management Trainer, but didn't see much of the country, except for hotels and the trips to the offices... After a short fling with a female interpreter, I decided to stay longer..

It's an amazing country and I'm glad I got to see it before it become so modern. I'd highly recommend living in Asia, to anyone, especially if you're single.

UrbanFret · 29-01-2020 4:43pm

It's amazing all right. Amazingly ****ing barbaric.

wakka12 · 29-01-2020 4:43pm

Legacy Better Explosion wrote: »

The article you linked to uses a very small (8) sample group, isn't peer reviewed or original, and only refers to a single (55yo) Asian male donor for the main sample studied.

You also indicated it's spreading faster in Asia due to 'this', however that regions and it's sub-region is the densely populated source(basin) of the virus.
As you know, it's now starting to go global.

Youre right it is a very small study, but its something to consider. It's going global largely because of infected people from Wuhan going abroad though. There has been hardly any secondary transmission to local people in countries outside China, other than that case in Germany. It is spreading remarkably slowly outside of china for such an infectious disease

29-01-2020 4:47pm

UrbanFret wrote: »

It's amazing all right. Amazingly ****ing barbaric.

Yup. It often is. Also incredibly civilized too. It's a country of extremes.

Have you been here yet? (not simply as a tourist)

frillyleaf · 29-01-2020 4:49pm

Does anyone know enough about the health or age of people who have passed away from it ?

creditcarder · 29-01-2020 4:54pm

Deleted User wrote: »

TBH, I suspect the average Chinese person wouldn't really lose that much with an economic downturn. Salaries are typically quite low (few above the 5k mark) outside of the Tier 1 cities, as is the general cost of living. And so the average Chinese person tends to live a rather frugal lifestyle with their money going towards "face" items. I would imagine we'd just see a massive reduction of foreign products being bought, and a return to the cheaper lifestyle.

It's the rich/wealthy that would be affected the most.

As for unrest, again I wouldn't be too quick to imagine a harsh attitude against Xi. He's got massive support from the "peasants" and lower middle class. A degree of government support to maintain their existing lives would likely offset any real issues. More likely, criticism would be turned towards external targets, such as Japan/US/ foreigners in general. There would be a lot of people who would accept separating the issues of an economic downturn, and the actual virus itself.

TBH The government has a lot of ways to swing public opinion in China. It really depends on just how severe the cost in life is from the virus, and even then, many Chinese are very flippant about such things. Life is cheap is a common attitude when it doesn't directly affect them..

I agree with what you are saying, and I honestly don't judge the chinese people too harshly.

But, I think Xi made a big mistake going after the 'Oligarchal' (does that term even fit China I wonder) Chinese by limiting passports and making them nervous that there will be a new Mao. Those people are some tough customers that won't fight fair and they remember the bad days. I doubt he will be killed, but he could be deemed inconsequential and his power limited quite quickly.

creditcarder · 29-01-2020 4:55pm

wakka12 wrote: »

https://www.biorxiv.org/content/10.1101/2020.01.26.919985v1.full
Asian people may be much more susceptible to the coronavirus than people of european or african descent, may explain why it is spreading so much faster there

I am sorry, but that is the most suspicious thing ever :O I really hope a government wasn't stupid enough to start this malarkey.

Also, as a side note will this fix China's ticking time bomb of pensions? I do not for a second believe that they would spread a disease for that purpose, but just something to think of.

clever user name · 29-01-2020 4:56pm

frillyleaf wrote: »

Does anyone know enough about the health or age of people who have passed away from it ?

As of yesterday, the youngest patient was 34 I think. I don't know about the new new numbers released today, haven't seen the demographics for that.

creditcarder · 29-01-2020 4:56pm

volchitsa wrote: »

The rest of your post makes sense, but the bit in bold puzzles me: I'd understand it if it weren't for the one child policy, but surely now that most people will have one child and one grandchild, there has to have been a corresponding change in social attitudes?

Even if they don't care about their neighbours' child dying, wouldn't you expect there to be widespread protest about a high deathrate precisely because their own children are also at risk?

It's the same in Eastern Europe. When the food is scarce, the government dangerous, you are going to look after your own.

4068ac1elhodqr · 29-01-2020 4:57pm

wakka12 wrote: »

It is spreading remarkably slowly outside of china for such an infectious disease

Simply due to awareness, remember this was kept under wraps for a few weeks in Hubei, some folks were silenced or arrested for 'gossip' when it started to emerge.

The next few weeks will be interesting, although with flight suspensions and states such as Australia placing people in 14day quarantine, should help slow it somewhat.

The biggest danger is dense <2nd world places such as Cairo, Dhaka, Mexico(city), São Paulo, Delhi, Mumbai etc. All with 20m in their cities.
Even Lagos, Lahore (and another x20) with 10-20m will be problematic.

creditcarder · 29-01-2020 5:00pm

Deleted User wrote: »

Traditional Chinese culture also provides a host of ways for them to keep control. People seem to disregard what China was like under the Nationalists and again, the Empire. They've got thousand of years of social programming, and the Government knows how to pull those strings without ever showing the fist. It's just when they get frightened that they switch to the more obvious forms of oppression.

I think the government has every reason to be frightened. They have 1.6 Billion people who, historically, don't really complain but just instantly get on attack mode. It's kind of interesting socially to have rulers be so nervous about the masses :P

Again, I could be wrong as my knowledge only really comes from a passing interest.

29-01-2020 5:01pm

Legacy Better Explosion wrote: »

The biggest danger is dense <2nd world places such as Cairo, Dhaka, Mexico(city), São Paulo, Delhi, Mumbai etc. All with 20m in their cities.
Even Lagos, Lahore (and another x20) with 10-20m will be problematic.

Yeah, between their dense populations and aversion to hygiene, it could be very bad if it hit those cities in an major way.

creditcarder · 29-01-2020 5:01pm

megatron989 wrote: »

Don't bother. Some people here seem hell bent on advising against preparing for this in any way. Sure it'll be grand they say.
Personally I will be taking steps to ensure me and mine can if necessary hunker down or at least hold up and sweat out a bad flu at home. So stocking up on some tinned and frozen / dried foods, hidration salts, whatever I can fit into the house. We already keep a supply of long shelf life foods at home.
It's no harm at all in taking these simple steps, personally I doubt it'll be needed but just in case, I'll be positioned to withstand more than I could should I do nothing now.

Think of it like the snow. They forecast it and the same lads here say it'll never happen. Then it happens and the local lidl turns all Lord of the flys. Now you wish when you'd seen the forecast you'd stocked a few loves of bread.

Good idea.

29-01-2020 5:04pm

creditcarder wrote: »

I agree with what you are saying, and I honestly don't judge the chinese people too harshly.

Me neither. Many posters here on boards seem to think the whole world revolves around western logic and morality, as if they're universal concepts (or that those not involved in their creation, automatically accepted them). They'll get a nasty surprise when/if they ever spend time in a non-western non-first world country. (although I suspect it'll just make them feel superior)

Once I leave China for good, then I'll consider them in a more "balanced" way... however, I do live there and my work places me closely with many government officials.. so I tend to avoid being involved in most negative discussions.

But, I think Xi made a big mistake going after the 'Oligarchal' (does that term even fit China I wonder) Chinese by limiting passports and making them nervous that there will be a new Mao. Those people are some tough customers that won't fight fair and they remember the bad days. I doubt he will be killed, but he could be deemed inconsequential and his power limited quite quickly.

Xi retains the support of the military, and nobody will replace Xi without their support. Xi also has been rather selective in his corruption drive, hitting those already in the public eye. However the truly powerful in China know not to show themselves or their power publicly... so he hasn't really been chipping at the true powers in China. The power dynamic hasn't really changed all that much... Xi's effort to replace Mao is more of a "face" gesture rather than a move for absolute power.

highgiant1985 · 29-01-2020 5:05pm

WHO update live now: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Mx6FzezCPXM

4068ac1elhodqr · 29-01-2020 5:08pm

If you haven't already, give up the aul fags (smoking).

VinLieger · 29-01-2020 5:08pm

WHO laying it on thick supporting the CCP in this press conference.

Also dude is Irish which is nice i suppose

VinLieger · 29-01-2020 5:10pm

Whats worrying is they are reconvening the council tomorrow to decide if its a global emergency.

clever user name · 29-01-2020 5:13pm

Legacy Better Explosion wrote: »

If you haven't already, give up the aul fags (smoking).

Try sitting sitting in your apartment for a week :pac: Going out for a fag is like is going for a night on the town.

29-01-2020 5:15pm

Legacy Better Explosion wrote: »

Simply due to awareness, remember this was kept under wraps for a few weeks in Hubei, some folks were silenced or arrested for 'gossip' when it started to emerge.

I don't buy it. Awareness of what? We still don't have accurate listings of the full symptoms and people can be infectious without showing any signs of the virus.

I'd say it's more to do with nutrition and availability of quality medicine. Typical Chinese food, the quality of ingredients and the way it's cooked doesn't preserve much in the way of Vitamins. Which is why you'll find Chinese students getting sick often during a semester period. The amount of pollution in Chinese cities is also likely a factor in lowering their immune systems ability to fight off an infection. Plus the average availability of Medicine is based on Traditional herbal medicine, and honestly, it's awful.

Whereas anyone in a non-Asian country apart from Japan/Korea is likely to have the nutritional basis to support their natural defenses against the virus. Anyone in the west getting a painkiller, or similar to deal with the flu would be receiving better medicine than in China even without going to a GP or hospital.

new coronavirus outbreak China, Korea, USA - mod warnings in OP (updated 24/02/20)

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