New Dail / New Taoiseach

Lockstep · 21-02-2020 11:25am

mikemac2 wrote: »

Have they no fresh young members?

Joe Costello was 70 in the recent election and Joan Burton was 71. Another was Jan O’Sullivan at 69

Why are they even running?

Another poster had Emmett Stagg running at 75, ah heyor

They had young candidates like Anniey Hoey in Meath East, Rebecca Moynihan in Dublin South Central and Liam Van Der Spek in Cavan/Monaghan.

None were elected though.

Sam Russell · 21-02-2020 11:33am

There was a report on RTE radio today that Gerry Adams, along with other 'unelected' people were on SF's negotiating team.

I thought GA 'had gone away', but not so.

Panda Killa · 21-02-2020 12:00pm

Sam Russell wrote: »

There was a report on RTE radio today that Gerry Adams, along with other 'unelected' people were on SF's negotiating team.

I thought GA 'had gone away', but not so.

Did you not see him going clippity clop beside Mary Lou and Michelle O'Neil last week when discussions were starting...

gormdubhgorm · 21-02-2020 12:05pm

realdanbreen wrote: »

Pity, because she came across so classy in the Dail yesterday!

I did not see it but it would make a refreshing change if Mary Lou has suddenly adopted a 'classy' persona.

ednwireland · 21-02-2020 12:40pm

realdanbreen wrote: »

Pity, because she came across so classy in the Dail yesterday!

i must have missed that (or is my sarcasm filter off ?)

machaseh · 21-02-2020 12:47pm

Panda Killa wrote: »

Did you not see him going clippity clop beside Mary Lou and Michelle O'Neil last week when discussions were starting...

And FF/FG don't consult ex-politicians in their internal party meetings?

Panda Killa · 21-02-2020 12:48pm

machaseh wrote: »

And FF/FG don't consult ex-politicians in their internal party meetings?

Internal perhaps... with other parties when trying to form a government in Ireland...nope

JamesM · 21-02-2020 12:50pm

Mother Ireland :eek: She was called, in all seriousness, just now on RTE Radio 1

:D:D

WomanSkirtFan8 · 21-02-2020 1:45pm

Bishop of hope wrote: »

Cop out on who's behalf?
I already named the amount of groups that won't go in with SF apart from FF and FG.
Where's your Boyd Barretts, Murphy and Murphy and Ryan.
I'm no SF fan by any means, but if change is what's needed then they too have to step up.
We are on a difficult year I think with brexit, we need stable Govt and it can't be formed without at least two of the big three.
We will be back at the polls very soon even if a minority Govt is formed unless a big coalition happens!

Agreed. That's how I set up see it playing out now.

Stewball · 21-02-2020 2:21pm

Lockstep wrote: »

They had young candidates like Anniey Hoey in Meath East, Rebecca Moynihan in Dublin South Central and Liam Van Der Spek in Cavan/Monaghan.

None were elected though.

The Labour brand is too tainted. Alan Kelly isn't going to improve it - if anything he'll make it even worse.

Look at the Social Democrats candidate Holly Cairns in Cork.
She got elected with transfers from Sinn Fein - If she was running for Labour she wouldn't have gotten those transfers and would have been eliminated early.

The three Labour candidates you named were quiet impressive during the campaign I thought. If they were under a purple banner they probably would have performed better in the vote.

Johnboy1951 · 21-02-2020 2:45pm

Yes, two of the 'big three' plus a few seats will be required for a stable government.
There is no will from either FF or FG to hook up with SF, so that just leaves the two.

The sooner they make some arrangement the better for the country.

ThewhiteJesus · 21-02-2020 2:47pm

realdanbreen wrote: »

Pity, because she came across so classy in the Dail yesterday!

Like Classi from southpark more like

gormdubhgorm · 21-02-2020 3:13pm

realdanbreen wrote: »

Pity, because she came across so classy in the Dail yesterday!

ThewhiteJesus wrote: »

Like Classi from southpark more like

I would say Mary Lou is more a cleasaí rather than any type of classy.

charlie14 · 21-02-2020 3:55pm

Sam Russell wrote: »

There was a report on RTE radio today that Gerry Adams, along with other 'unelected' people were on SF's negotiating team.

I thought GA 'had gone away', but not so.

Peadar Tóibín made a few interesting points about appointed parliamentary assistants to SF TD`s in that context as far as I recall.

nigeldaniel · 21-02-2020 8:08pm

Is it possible all this helps SF and their agenda to stay in opposition and avoid the responsibility of government? The constant trickle of bad news about the sinners in the last few weeks makes me wonder.

feargale · 22-02-2020 2:42am

nigeldaniel wrote: »

Is it possible all this helps SF and their agenda to stay in opposition and avoid the responsibility of government? The constant trickle of bad news about the sinners in the last few weeks makes me wonder.

Would you like to see SF taking over the Dept of Justice? Guess which files might be used to make the white smoke.
Their takeover of Defence would be interesting too. Would the two bodies calling themselves Óglaigh na h-Éireann have to amalgamate? And would our troops in the Middle East, who are supposed to be neutral, be flying Palestinian flags on their jeeps? After all, why not if those flags greeted Arlene Foster at the 2019 Ulster football final?
We had one bad experience in similar circumstances, when Cruise O'Brien, a man who was privy to cabinet confidences, joined a NI party that was anything but friendly towards the Irish state and Irish people. Are we about to see a repeat? Will some slightly constitutional people be shielded from state secrets? Some SF people have hived off to Continuity etc, including people who know a thing or two about Lyra McKee's murder. Are we sure there won't be more in the future, armed with knowledge of the inner workings of the Dublin government?
Ms. McDonald says the IRA doesn't exist now. Mr. Adams said: " they haven't gone away, you know." Would Ms. McDonald like to tell us when precisely did they go away?
The GFA conferred many benefits on certain people, including immunity from prosecution. It didn't impose an obligation on the rest of us to vote for them.

FrancieBrady · 22-02-2020 11:21am

feargale wrote: »

Ms. McDonald says the IRA doesn't exist now. Mr. Adams said: " they haven't gone away, you know." Would Ms. McDonald like to tell us when precisely did they go away?

We have an independent body to monitor such things. We don't need McDonald to tell us.

The findings of that committee underpins who gets to govern in the north.

https://www.irishtimes.com/news/ira-firmly-committed-to-political-path-imc-reports-1.1199390

gormdubhgorm · 22-02-2020 1:50pm

FrancieBrady wrote: »

We have an independent body to monitor such things. We don't need McDonald to tell us.

The findings of that committee underpins who gets to govern in the north.

https://www.irishtimes.com/news/ira-firmly-committed-to-political-path-imc-reports-1.1199390

Hang on a minute they only said the Army Council is no longer there and has disbanded it's terrorist structures and military recruitment.

https://www.irishexaminer.com/breakingnews/ireland/ira-army-council-no-longer-operational-say-imc-376165.html

That does not mean that the former/current members of that council are not acting as advisers to SF. An unofficial SF working group/sub-committee

https://www.irishcentral.com/news/irishvoice/gerry-adams-ira

https://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache:KGedSguoQu0J:https://www.irishtimes.com/news/backgrounds-of-sinn-fein-negotiators-in-talks-process-1.136364+&cd=7&hl=en&ct=clnk&gl=ie

https://www.herald.ie/news/adams-joins-sinn-fein-talks-team-as-memo-warns-we-may-go-back-to-polls-38976383.html

FrancieBrady · 22-02-2020 1:53pm

gormdubhgorm wrote: »

Hang on a minute they only said the Army Council is no longer there and has disbanded it's terrorist structures and military recruitment.

https://www.irishexaminer.com/breakingnews/ireland/ira-army-council-no-longer-operational-say-imc-376165.html

That does not mean that the former/current members of that council are not acting as advisers to SF. An unofficial SF working group/sub-committee

https://www.irishcentral.com/news/irishvoice/gerry-adams-ira

https://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache:KGedSguoQu0J:https://www.irishtimes.com/news/backgrounds-of-sinn-fein-negotiators-in-talks-process-1.136364+&cd=7&hl=en&ct=clnk&gl=ie

https://www.herald.ie/news/adams-joins-sinn-fein-talks-team-as-memo-warns-we-may-go-back-to-polls-38976383.html

What's the problem with 'former members' of the IRA taking part in democratic politics? Did you miss the whole GFA thing?

gormdubhgorm · 22-02-2020 2:02pm

FrancieBrady wrote: »

What's the problem with 'former members' of the IRA taking part in democratic politics? Did you miss the whole GFA thing?

No but is it not coincidental that former or current member of the IRA army council is leading the negotiations?

Yet on the other thread you are adamant that the IRA army council does not run SF!

FrancieBrady · 22-02-2020 2:14pm

gormdubhgorm wrote: »

No but is it not coincidental that former or current member of the IRA army council is leading the negotiations?

Yet on the other thread you are adamant that the IRA army council does not run SF!

WTF?

Co-incidental? What does that mean?

An Army COuncil did exist. People were on that council.

Like the IRA the Army Council no longer exists in an operational role.

The 'people' still exist though and they signed up to achieving their aims by exclusively peaceful means.

gormdubhgorm · 22-02-2020 2:32pm

FrancieBrady wrote: »

WTF?

Co-incidental? What does that mean?

An Army COuncil did exist. People were on that council.

Like the IRA the Army Council no longer exists in an operational role.

The 'people' still exist though and they signed up to achieving their aims by exclusively peaceful means.

In a military operation role maybe. But it has not stopped the IRA army council acting as arbitrator for SF and advisers to SF. There is/was seven members on this council. Not hard for them to meet up for cup of tea and chat about SF strategy is it?

How do you think Mary Lou was anointed 'elected' leader of SF in 'the south'?
No leadership challenge, do you not think that was a bit odd? Decades of one leader then all of sudden, it is the Mary Lou and Michelle show.

sid waddell · 22-02-2020 2:39pm

Wouldn't it be better for the media to start investigating which unelected business figures are influencing FF and FG's policies and negotiating strategy rather than endless stories about people who used to be on the IRA Army Council? SF were the political wing of the IRA. Everybody knows that. Are people seriously saying they can't or shouldn't be allowed to take advice from people who were in the IRA?

FrancieBrady · 22-02-2020 2:47pm

gormdubhgorm wrote: »

In a military operation role maybe. But it has not stopped the IRA army council acting as arbitrator for SF and advisers to SF. There is/was seven members on this council. Not hard for them to meet up for cup of tea and chat about SF strategy is it?

How do you think Mary Lou was anointed 'elected' leader of SF in 'the south'?
No leadership challenge, do you not think that was a bit odd? Decades of one leader then all of sudden, it is the Mary Lou and Michelle show.

Did you miss the challenge to Michelle O'Neill lately?

Are you aware how Leo was'annointed' chosen as leader?

olestoepoke · 22-02-2020 2:50pm

sid waddell wrote: »

Wouldn't it be better for the media to start investigating which unelected business figures are influencing FF and FG's policies and negotiating strategy rather than endless stories about people who used to be on the IRA Army Council? SF were the political wing of the IRA. Everybody knows that. Are people seriously saying they can't or shouldn't be allowed to take advice from people who were in the IRA?

You mention Strategy. Who do you think is in charge of strategy at RTE?

sid waddell · 22-02-2020 3:44pm

olestoepoke wrote: »

You mention Strategy. Who do you think is in charge of strategy at RTE?

I think the people paid to be in charge of strategy at RTE are in charge of it.

The point is that influence over the strategy or editorial stances of state television is usually unsaid, state television tends to be more deferential towards the government of the day and their chosen framing of issues, no matter which country we're talking about. I suspect those working throughout RTE have a fairly narrow and not very diverse set of backgrounds, they will pick from a certain pool. That's generally the way it works in media, and especially in Irish media. The revolving door is a common theme throughout politics, media and business and Irish society in general is highly interconnected in terms of relationships and a certain "circle".

feargale · 22-02-2020 4:02pm

FrancieBrady wrote: »

We have an independent body to monitor such things. We don't need McDonald to tell us.

The findings of that committee underpins who gets to govern in the north.

https://www.irishtimes.com/news/ira-firmly-committed-to-political-path-imc-reports-1.1199390

We don't need her to tell us anything. But we thought that when she volunteered to tell us something that we might be entitled to ask a supplementary question by way of clarification, even if we had to settle for an answer such as "I'm not their mammy."
Now, since she professes to know so much about the IRA, could we ask again: when precisely did Mr. Adams' "they haven't gone away" assertion become redundant?
Or do SF enjoy an exemption from awkward questions that others don't enjoy?
Oh, interesting times!

olestoepoke · 22-02-2020 4:02pm

sid waddell wrote: »

I think the people paid to be in charge of strategy at RTE are in charge of it.

The point is that influence over the strategy or editorial stances of state television is usually unsaid, state television tends to be more deferential towards the government of the day and their chosen framing of issues, no matter which country we're talking about. I suspect those working throughout RTE have a fairly narrow and not very diverse set of backgrounds, they will pick from a certain pool. That's generally the way it works in media, and especially in Irish media. The revolving door is a common theme throughout politics, media and business and Irish society in general is highly interconnected in terms of relationships and a certain "circle".

I was alluding to Rory Coveney brother to Simon

gormdubhgorm · 22-02-2020 4:39pm

FrancieBrady wrote: »

Did you miss the challenge to Michelle O'Neill lately?

Are you aware how Leo was'annointed' chosen as leader?

At least there was a challenger to Leo in Simon Coveney

https://www.independent.ie/irish-news/politics/fine-gael-leadership-race-leo-varadkar-wins-vote-among-councillors-as-counting-continues-35782502.html

I notice how when you are caught out you revert to deflection the much practiced dark art of SF.
You cannot tell me that a woman southerner was just given the hot seat in SF after a virtual dictatorship of Gerry Adams for 30 plus years - was a bit odd for any democratic party.

I also notice how Mary Lou did the same tactic. When she said to Leo that the IRA has gone away, yet leo has sat around the table with corrupt politicians in the past.

It made me laugh because in Mary Lou's mindset SF are not corrupt, and that corruption is worse than murder or as an accessory to covering up the same. Even when the war was supposed to be over!

kilburn · 22-02-2020 4:50pm

sid waddell wrote:

Wouldn't it be better for the media to start investigating which unelected business figures are influencing FF and FG's policies and negotiating strategy rather than endless stories about people who used to be on the IRA Army Council? SF were the political wing of the IRA. Everybody knows that. Are people seriously saying they can't or shouldn't be allowed to take advice from people who were in the IRA?

Personally I wouldn't want my country run by people who take advise from terrorists

FrancieBrady · 22-02-2020 4:54pm

gormdubhgorm wrote: »

At least there was a challenger to Leo in Simon Coveney

https://www.independent.ie/irish-news/politics/fine-gael-leadership-race-leo-varadkar-wins-vote-among-councillors-as-counting-continues-35782502.html

I notice how when you are caught out you revert to deflection the much practiced dark art of SF.
You cannot tell me that a woman southerner was just given the hot seat in SF after a virtual dictatorship of Gerry Adams for 30 plus years - was a bit odd for any democratic party.

Tell us what you know of the selection process of the SF leader?

I think it was The Sunday Times that was claiming that the 'Army Council' was opposed to her becoming leader before she was elected.

Not very good at the 'overarching strategy' those Army Council guys eh?

BTW The Fine Gael members choice of leader was ignored.

WomanSkirtFan8 · 22-02-2020 4:59pm

kilburn wrote: »

Personally I wouldn't want my country run by people who take advise from terrorists

Here here. I second that.

Umaro · 22-02-2020 6:14pm

Wasn't the First Dáil full of former terrorists?

Or is that different somehow?

FrancieBrady · 22-02-2020 6:17pm

Umaro wrote: »

Wasn't the First Dáil full of former terrorists?

Or is that different somehow?

Some members of FF came to the '38 Dáil armed.

is_that_so · 22-02-2020 6:33pm

FrancieBrady wrote: »

BTW The Fine Gael members choice of leader was ignored.

It's a democratic process and any rule changes are approved at an Ard Fheis.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2017_Fine_Gael_leadership_election#Electoral_process

FF leader selection is limited to parliamentary party and Labour TDs only.

FrancieBrady · 22-02-2020 6:38pm

is_that_so wrote: »

It's a democratic process and any rule changes are approved at an Ard Fheis.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2017_Fine_Gael_leadership_election#Electoral_process

FF leader selection is limited to parliamentary party and Labour TDs only.

And SF's (according to a member here) is selected/nominated by individual cumann's and voted on at the Ard Fheis.

Bishop of hope · 22-02-2020 6:47pm

FrancieBrady wrote: »

And SF's (according to a member here) is selected/nominated by individual cumann's and voted on at the Ard Fheis.

I know a lad beside me, he went to a meeting with another local young fella who was going on in the last locals for SF, they were looking for volunteers for to help with the campaign and the canvas.
Two lads from Armagh turned up and took the meeting and directed how the campaign should be run, a bit odd for a Longford local candidate don't you think?

FrancieBrady · 22-02-2020 6:52pm

Bishop of hope wrote: »

I know a lad beside me, he went to a meeting with another local young fella who was going on in the last locals for SF, they were looking for volunteers for to help with the campaign and the canvas.
Two lads from Armagh turned up and took the meeting and directed how the campaign should be run, a bit odd for a Longford local candidate don't you think?

'Directed' How?

Is it possible it might have been advice?

Seriously difficult to take this stuff seriously. I know loads of shinners of different opinions and views. They don't strike me as 'directable', if it wasn't what they wanted to do.

22-02-2020 6:53pm

Lets face it Francie. There has only ever been Gerry as leader as long as I can remember.

And even when he is now retired he still keeps showing up just to keep an eye on things. It is kind of hard to believe that Mary Lou is fully in charge with Adams hovering about in the background all the time.

https://www.irishtimes.com/news/politics/it-s-like-freshers-week-first-day-in-d%C3%A1il-for-new-sinn-f%C3%A9in-tds-1.4173089

sid waddell · 22-02-2020 6:55pm

kilburn wrote: »

Personally I wouldn't want my country run by people who take advise from terrorists

Well apartheid South Africa would never have come to an end had it followed your logic because the ANC had a terrorist wing which engaged in bombings of civilians and a landmine campaign.

So presumably that should have applied to the North as well in your mind?

22-02-2020 6:57pm

sid waddell wrote: »

Well apartheid South Africa would never have come to an end had it followed your logic because the ANC had a terrorist wing which engaged in bombings of civilians and a landmine campaign.

So presumably that should have applied to the North as well in your mind?

Northern Ireland is not the Republic of Ireland.
Whatever they do up there with their government is of no consequence to us down here.
We should however have a problem with terrorists being advisors to members of the government of our country.

Bishop of hope · 22-02-2020 7:05pm

FrancieBrady wrote: »

'Directed' How?

Is it possible it might have been advice?

Seriously difficult to take this stuff seriously. I know loads of shinners of different opinions and views. They don't strike me as 'directable', if it wasn't what they wanted to do.

Chaired and took points and said any statements made by the candidate or his representatives had to be subject to party policy and that superceded local issues.
Any press releases or public statements had to be pre approved by these two men, they were SF members, they were in charge of the campaign.

FrancieBrady · 22-02-2020 7:10pm

Bishop of hope wrote: »

Chaired and took points and said any statements made by the candidate or his representatives had to be subject to party policy and that superceded local issues.
Any press releases or public statements had to be pre approved by these two men, they were SF members, they were in charge of the campaign.

Well, as I said, my experience of SF members is that they wouldn't tolerate that control for a second.

And my own experience is all I can go on.

Umaro · 22-02-2020 7:11pm

bubblypop wrote: »

Northern Ireland is not the Republic of Ireland.
Whatever they do up there with their government is of no consequence to us down here.
We should however have a problem with terrorists being advisors to members of the government of our country.

Were FG aware that SF is run by a shadowy IRA Army Council when they were helping to re-install them in Stormont a few weeks ago?

That's incredibly reckless to install a paramilitary organisation into power in a foreign country. It's like something the CIA would do.

Weird how they're only aware of it now that SF could get into power in this country.

FrancieBrady · 22-02-2020 7:13pm

Umaro wrote: »

Were FG aware that SF is run by a shadowy IRA Army Council when they were helping to re-install them in Stormont a few weeks ago?

That's incredibly reckless to install a paramilitary organisation into power in a foreign country. It's like something the CIA would do.

Weird how they're only aware of it now that SF could get into power in this country.

The 'difficult' questions nobody wants to address.

The north is 'different' will be the answer, because it suits.

sid waddell · 22-02-2020 7:22pm

bubblypop wrote: »

Northern Ireland is not the Republic of Ireland.
Whatever they do up there with their government is of no consequence to us down here.
We should however have a problem with terrorists being advisors to members of the government of our country.

Well it is of consequence to us actually as Ireland is a signatory of the Good Friday Agreement.

Who are these terrorists?

Do you mean former terrorists?

Former terrorists like the ANC in South Africa?

22-02-2020 8:02pm

sid waddell wrote: »

Well it is of consequence to us actually as Ireland is a signatory of the Good Friday Agreement.

Who are these terrorists?

Do you mean former terrorists?

Former terrorists like the ANC in South Africa?

I prefer the actual people I vote for to be the actual people in charge, not some men no-one knows.
I don't want terrorists or former terrorists running our country.

Charles Babbage · 22-02-2020 8:14pm

FrancieBrady wrote: »

The 'difficult' questions nobody wants to address.

The north is 'different' will be the answer, because it suits.

The north is different, it is a colonial appendage, not a normal place.

This is a fundamental tenet of SF policy, yet they are willing to abandon it for political point scoring, which in itself reflects poorly on them.

sid waddell · 22-02-2020 10:51pm

bubblypop wrote: »

I prefer the actual people I vote for to be the actual people in charge, not some men no-one knows.
I don't want terrorists or former terrorists running our country.

Were Fine Gael in charge when the Troika were here?

Who was really in charge at the time of the bank guarantee?

Has any government in the history of this state not had its policies heavily influenced by business interests?

We voted for the Good Friday Agreement. Sinn Fein came into the political process with our agreement. The IRA is no longer active.

You don't have to vote for Sinn Fein, I didn't vote for them either. But this is what we voted for in 1998 - that as a result of a negotiated peace settlement approved by the people north and south of the border, there would be the possibility that Sinn Fein could enter into government in Ireland in the future.

gormdubhgorm · 22-02-2020 11:11pm

Umaro wrote: »

Were FG aware that SF is run by a shadowy IRA Army Council when they were helping to re-install them in Stormont a few weeks ago?

That's incredibly reckless to install a paramilitary organisation into power in a foreign country. It's like something the CIA would do.

Weird how they're only aware of it now that SF could get into power in this country.

FrancieBrady wrote: »

The 'difficult' questions nobody wants to address.

The north is 'different' will be the answer, because it suits.

The north is different when it suits Mary Lou. Getting he paras in Stormont was the only way they would stop killing gardai, killing RUC, putting bombs in rubbish bins and cars etc. Plus 'up there' there is a pair of them in it. Both claiming they 'won' the war.

New Dail / New Taoiseach

Comments