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Are you prepared for UBI?

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24

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    #32
    KungPao
    Registered Users Posts: 4,781 ✭✭✭KungPao


    Get a job ya no good hippie.


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    #33
    kowloon
    Registered Users Posts: 13,323 ✭✭✭✭kowloon


    RandomViewer wrote: »
    Social rating will be here long before UBI, wouldn't be surprised if we see a version of that in the next government, the Children of the Quorn will call it an eco-rating or some such moniker

    I've never heard that term before. :D


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    #34
    ILoveYourVibes
    Registered Users Posts: 15,176 ✭✭✭✭ILoveYourVibes


    No get away from my urinary tract!


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    #35
    Guy:Incognito
    Registered Users Posts: 38,247 ✭✭✭✭Guy:Incognito


    fryup wrote: »
    isn't that what half the country is getting at the moment with the covid payment



    Yes, and I cant wait to get off it and back to work.


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    #36
    Pkiernan
    Registered Users Posts: 4,315 ✭✭✭Pkiernan


    J. Marston wrote: »
    What is UBI exactly? The dole?

    UBI

    Unlimited layaBouts Income


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    #37
    Yurt2
    Registered Users Posts: 9,381 ✭✭✭Yurt2


    The Frank Grimes of this world would be hostile to such a thing. Working a second job in the foundry at night and living in a single room above a bowling alley and below another bowling alley. Giving themselves ulcers thinking about the imaginary army of layabouts undermining the fabric of society.


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    #38
    Pkiernan
    Registered Users Posts: 4,315 ✭✭✭Pkiernan


    Yurt! wrote: »
    The Frank Grimes of this world would be hostile to such a thing. Working a second job in the foundry at night and living in a single room above a bowling alley and below another bowling alley. Giving themselves ulcers thinking about the imaginary army of layabouts undermining the fabric of society.

    What are you doing up in the morning?


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    #39
    Yurt2
    Registered Users Posts: 9,381 ✭✭✭Yurt2


    Pkiernan wrote: »
    What are you doing up in the morning?


    Morning Grimey.



    It's not morning where I am btw. And gainfully employed, thanks for your concern.


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    #40
    ILoveYourVibes
    Registered Users Posts: 15,176 ✭✭✭✭ILoveYourVibes


    Pkiernan wrote: »
    UBI

    Unlimited layaBouts Income
    oh id like that! :)


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    #41
    Pkiernan
    Registered Users Posts: 4,315 ✭✭✭Pkiernan


    Yurt! wrote: »
    Morning Grimey.



    It's not morning where I am btw. And gainfully employed, thanks for your concern.

    No need for personal attacks just because I don't agree with your opinion.


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    #42
    Yurt2
    Registered Users Posts: 9,381 ✭✭✭Yurt2


    Pkiernan wrote: »
    No need for personal attacks just because I don't agree with your opinion.


    Because your response to my initial post wasn't a personal attack right? Give over.


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    #43
    biko
    Registered Users Posts: 81,223 ✭✭✭✭biko


    Clickbait title. "Prepared"? It's not coming.

    Besides, we already have a version of UBI, but we call it "dole".


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    #44
    ILoveYourVibes
    Registered Users Posts: 15,176 ✭✭✭✭ILoveYourVibes


    I want 70,000 a year please.


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    #45
    JohnnyFlash
    Registered Users Posts: 7,055 ✭✭✭JohnnyFlash


    Be great to get a few quid back in the form of UBI. I’d save it up and spend it on new golf clubs or maybe use it for the Cheltenham war chest.


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    #46
    storker
    Registered Users Posts: 5,646 ✭✭✭storker


    completedit wrote: »
    Life will be better overall. We'll grow up through maturity and character as opposed to basing growing up on getting on the corporate ladder.

    Time to embrace it. AI is coming for all jobs sooner or later. We only have a short time on the planet, can't be wasting 40 hours a week in an office or in a shop or whatever else.

    I think UBI is a good idea, but I'd be careful of assuming that its arrival is even close to imminent, and I don't see what it would change about the corporate ladder. It's meant as more efficient safety net that encourages rather than discourages participation in the workplace by removing the welfare trap aspect. It's not intended to be a replacement for what someone would earn if they were pursing a career.
    Potential-Monke wrote: »
    I don't understand UBI fully, but I genuinely can't see how giving Irish people more money when not working will solve the issues. We already have a fairly hefty part of society that refuse to work because we make it financially viable for them to not work.

    It's more a case of UBI making it viable to accept work, even a small amount, because someone would always be better off by doing so.
    biko wrote: »
    Clickbait title. "Prepared"? It's not coming.

    Besides, we already have a version of UBI, but we call it "dole".

    They're two very different things so no, we don't already have a version of it.



    .


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    #47
    storker
    Registered Users Posts: 5,646 ✭✭✭storker


    mickdw wrote: »
    Everyone gets same amount. You cant have extra benefits for some where housing is paid etc.
    I dont see it as an extra cost to government. Anyone working will have to pay pretty severe taxes to allow government to claw back the equivalent of the ubi from even low paid workers.
    Should be lots of benefits in admin for government as well as fraud detection benefits etc.

    Asl long as it's done properly and everyone, working and unemployed, is paid directly and not by means of tax credits, etc. If UBI needs the same, or an extra level of bureaucracy to administer it, it's already half failed.


    .


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    #48
    u140acro3xs7dm
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,512 ✭✭✭u140acro3xs7dm


    I can't see it working. The lazy in society will figure out a way to not work while keeping their seat on the gravy train. We will see a huge spike in the amount of people unable to work and going on "the sick', their partners will become registered carers. All the while, the state will have to house them all.


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    #49
    Capra
    Registered Users Posts: 197 ✭✭Capra


    I think it's an absolutely nonsense concept that hasn't been thought through by many of its proponents.

    Some people will receive €300 a week and live very frugally and comfortably. Other people, through poor life choices, will waste the entire €300 and still end up in poverty. I just think the exact same people who waste the majority of their wages now will waste it when they get €300 they haven't even had to earn. It will also make us highly dependent on the state who will obviously use it as leverage over the population. Do people really think the state will just give free money away and expect nothing in return?

    I think it's total insanity.


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    #50
    corsav6
    Registered Users Posts: 1,597 ✭✭✭corsav6


    Considering we're the most intelligent species on the planet it's a major Fu*k up on our part that we have to slave away for 40/60 hours per week just to survive, all while destroying the planet.
    If any other species had this intelligence they'd have made a far better job of things.


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    #51
    storker
    Registered Users Posts: 5,646 ✭✭✭storker


    Capra wrote: »
    I think it's an absolutely nonsense concept that hasn't been thought through by many of its proponents.

    I think it's total insanity.

    There may be problems with it, but it's far from being "nonsense" or "insanity". There would be no more reaqson for someone in work to jack in their job to get their UBI because, as with going in the dole, UBI by itself would be a major income-drop and also, anyone in employment would already be getting UBI anyway. This is the point.

    Unemployed person income: UBI+nothing

    Unemployed person doing a few hours a week: UBI + some extra pin money

    Part time employed person's income: UBI+part-time salary

    Full time employ-persons income: UBI+full-time salary

    Advantage to the individual: You're always better off working, and if employed, there's no need do apply for assistance if suddenly unemployed and then wait for ages until it comes through, as its already being received.

    Advantage to the state: Much much cheaper to administer. More people in at least some work than 100% out of it.

    The biggest question around it, and which doesn't appear to have been asked in this thread yet, is how it's financed.


    .


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    #52
    storker
    Registered Users Posts: 5,646 ✭✭✭storker


    J. Marston wrote: »
    What is UBI exactly? The dole?

    http://letmegooglethat.com/?q=universal+basic+income


    .


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    #53
    Wanderer78
    Registered Users Posts: 28,876 ✭✭✭✭Wanderer78


    Capra wrote:
    Some people will receive €300 a week and live very frugally and comfortably. Other people, through poor life choices, will waste the entire €300 and still end up in poverty. I just think the exact same people who waste the majority of their wages now will waste it when they get €300 they haven't even had to earn. It will also make us highly dependent on the state who will obviously use it as leverage over the population. Do people really think the state will just give free money away and expect nothing in return?


    Governments and central banks have no bother giving free money to highly questionable sectors such as the financial and corporate sectors, so why not give it directly to the citizens, even trump has copped onto this with his covid payment!


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    #54
    TuringBot47
    Registered Users Posts: 991 ✭✭✭TuringBot47


    completedit wrote: »
    Should we land grab all the property and put them in state control so that everyone starts off from the same level?

    Doesn't matter.
    People who are better will still rise above them.
    People with intelligence, a good work ethic, people skills, creative... the cream rises to the top...

    So this "grab all the property" robbery that you talk of, still won't make people equal. In fact it would be a complete disincentive for decent people to go out and work, create, take risks etc. It would drag everyone down to the lowest level.


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    #55
    Wanderer78
    Registered Users Posts: 28,876 ✭✭✭✭Wanderer78


    TuringBot47 wrote:
    Doesn't matter. People who are better will still rise above them. People with intelligence, a good work ethic, people skills, creative... the cream rises to the top...

    Me bollocks! Wealthy people aren't better than none wealthy, there's a lot of luck with it, and many are born into wealth. many none wealthy are intelligent, have incredible work ethic, people skills and are very creative. Jesus, what planet do some be living on!


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    #56
    Central Services
    Closed Accounts Posts: 95 ✭✭Central Services


    Is it backwards compatible with USB 2.0?


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    #57
    Jucifer
    Closed Accounts Posts: 82 ✭✭Jucifer


    Not a very well thought out idea from me but I was wondering if to support something like UBI, companies should have a graduated corporate tax where the more jobs they provide, the lower the rate of corporate tax. Obviously this would be scaled by size of the company.


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    #58
    biko
    Registered Users Posts: 81,223 ✭✭✭✭biko


    J. Marston wrote: »
    What is UBI exactly? The dole?
    It's the notion that if you are a citizen of a country then the country must provide you with basic income.
    It's charity without the charity feeling.

    The difference with dole is that UBI isn't means tested so it includes people with good salaries.

    It comes from the tax payer so if I pay tax and you don't then:
    we both get UBI
    I pay for your UBI
    I pay for my own UBI


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    #59
    Ubbquittious
    Registered Users Posts: 6,189 ✭✭✭Ubbquittious


    UBI mad to think it will ever take off


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    #60
    Wanderer78
    Registered Users Posts: 28,876 ✭✭✭✭Wanderer78


    Jucifer wrote: »
    Not a very well thought out idea from me but I was wondering if to support something like UBI, companies should have a graduated corporate tax where the more jobs they provide, the lower the rate of corporate tax. Obviously this would be scaled by size of the company.

    so the more wealth they create, the less tax they pay, and the more tax their workers pay?


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    #61
    TheBoyConor
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,292 ✭✭✭TheBoyConor


    We also need to purify the population and remove any "bad elements" that might be inclined towards sympathisers of the anti AI brigade.

    It is the urban vices of the Dubs that has corrupted the country. The fix is to empty Dublin of people and send them to farms in the west to be purified by picking stones and footing turf.
    Those who cannot or will not work can still help the crops grow. If their presence is no profit, then their death will be no loss.
    Footing turf in the wilds of Mayo is the ultimate tool for ideological purification.


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