Are you prepared for UBI?

completedit · 13-05-2020 9:49pm #1

Life will be better overall. We'll grow up through maturity and character as opposed to basing growing up on getting on the corporate ladder.

Time to embrace it. AI is coming for all jobs sooner or later. We only have a short time on the planet, can't be wasting 40 hours a week in an office or in a shop or whatever else.

LeYouth · 13-05-2020 9:51pm

Eh?

Flavour Diaper · 13-05-2020 10:01pm

I am pro UBI. But watch carefully that they don't try to make it conditional on being the 'right' kind of citizen.

Your Face · 13-05-2020 10:02pm

So does everyone get the same?
Probably not.

Odhinn · 13-05-2020 10:07pm

completedit wrote: »

Life will be better overall. We'll grow up through maturity and character as opposed to basing growing up on getting on the corporate ladder.

Time to embrace it. AI is coming for all jobs sooner or later. We only have a short time on the planet, can't be wasting 40 hours a week in an office or in a shop or whatever else.

Universal Basic Income is what the above is on about.

completedit · 13-05-2020 10:42pm

Should we land grab all the property and put them in state control so that everyone starts off from the same level?

Lyan · 13-05-2020 10:50pm

completedit wrote: »

Life will be better overall. We'll grow up through maturity and character as opposed to basing growing up on getting on the corporate ladder.

Time to embrace it. AI is coming for all jobs sooner or later. We only have a short time on the planet, can't be wasting 40 hours a week in an office or in a shop or whatever else.

*Dons Che Guevara t-shirt and stubbly mustache

Hello fellow 16 year old

biko · 13-05-2020 10:51pm

It's USB, duh...

fryup · 13-05-2020 10:55pm

Odhinn wrote: »

Universal Basic Income is what the above is on about.

isn't that what half the country is getting at the moment with the covid payment

Thelonious Monk · 13-05-2020 11:20pm

I think it's a good idea, there must be another way

Ubbquittious · 13-05-2020 11:39pm

UBI and AI can fcuk right off

Badly Drunk Boy · 13-05-2020 11:46pm

Sit, UBI, sit...good dog!

mickdw · 13-05-2020 11:51pm

I think it would solve alot of problems.
Instantly, the welfare trap is gone - you can work one hour per week and still be better off than not workkng. That is better than what we have now.
It needs to be hard hitting though.
Everyone gets same amount. You cant have extra benefits for some where housing is paid etc.
I dont see it as an extra cost to government. Anyone working will have to pay pretty severe taxes to allow government to claw back the equivalent of the ubi from even low paid workers.
Should be lots of benefits in admin for government as well as fraud detection benefits etc.

Potential-Monke · 14-05-2020 12:04am

I don't understand UBI fully, but I genuinely can't see how giving Irish people more money when not working will solve the issues. We already have a fairly hefty part of society that refuse to work because we make it financially viable for them to not work. Add another €150 or whatever on top of the dole, and this will apparently incentivise people to want to work? I just can't see it.

Would introducing it remove the social housing situation? Like, would we still give free houses to people? And if so, do we take a proper chunk of the UBI to pay for it, or will they continue to get them for free/pittance? What about all the other payments we currently give for no reason? Would they all be scrapped or kept on top of UBI?

I do want to know, as I still can't see how giving people more free money will make them want to work.

RandomViewer · 14-05-2020 12:04am

They've been out about this for decades, I don't think it will happen anytime soon, the first time I heard about it was some priest in the early 90's, idea was that everyone got a set amount, it was then up to you whether yo earned more or not, country was truly broke at the time and it seemed like one of those silly notions , what we have at the moment needs tweaking but I think this is just someone jumping on the Covid payment bandwagon

RandomViewer · 14-05-2020 12:09am

Potential-Monke wrote: »

I don't understand UBI fully, but I genuinely can't see how giving Irish people more money when not working will solve the issues. We already have a fairly hefty part of society that refuse to work because we make it financially viable for them to not work. Add another €150 or whatever on top of the dole, and this will apparently incentivise people to want to work? I just can't see it.

Would introducing it remove the social housing situation? Like, would we still give free houses to people? And if so, do we take a proper chunk of the UBI to pay for it, or will they continue to get them for free/pittance? What about all the other payments we currently give for no reason? Would they all be scrapped or kept on top of UBI?

I do want to know, as I still can't see how giving people more free money will make them want to work.

I think we would be building a lot of fairly basic social housing which could easily be rented at the new rate. It's not something that's going to happen,

completedit · 14-05-2020 12:11am

RandomViewer wrote: »

They've been out about this for decades, I don't think it will happen anytime soon, the first time I heard about it was some priest in the early 90's, idea was that everyone got a set amount, it was then up to you whether yo earned more or not, country was truly broke at the time and it seemed like one of those silly notions , what we have at the moment needs tweaking but I think this is just someone jumping on the Covid payment bandwagon

At the end of the day, if we can work a system out that works better for society and the people who make that up, then we have to pursue it. There is no inherent reason why our life is comprised of 40-60 hour work weeks to 'pay for things we don't really need'(to use that apt but tiresome quote)

Now, my attitude is that there is something inherent in humanity that wants to work. I think we would feel odd if we didn't. It would just be better if our jobs could have more meaning and be less caught up in their own importance.

RandomViewer · 14-05-2020 12:12am

Flavour Diaper wrote: »

I am pro UBI. But watch carefully that they don't try to make it conditional on being the 'right' kind of citizen.

Social rating will be here long before UBI, wouldn't be surprised if we see a version of that in the next government, the Children of the Quorn will call it an eco-rating or some such moniker

Potential-Monke · 14-05-2020 12:14am

Oh I agree about the working 40+ hours per week, I think it should be far less than that, work life balance me bollix, more like work and just the minimum amount of life to make it legal balance. But I can't see how spending more money will save money in the long run. I had a quick Google, but shur Google wouldn't cover the nuances of the fickle Irish. But the main con to it seems to be that it will disincentivise work... So less people working (paying taxes) while we pay out more in free money to everyone just seems counter productive.

Pintman Paddy Losty · 14-05-2020 12:16am

Flavour Diaper wrote: »

I am pro UBI. But watch carefully that they don't try to make it conditional on being the 'right' kind of citizen.

One thing is for sure... You won't be seen as the right kind of citizen. You're a wrong un', the owner of a diseased mind.

Flavour Diaper · 14-05-2020 12:16am

Flavour Diaper.

Geuze · 14-05-2020 12:17am

completedit wrote: »

AI is coming for all jobs sooner or later.

Is it?

There has never been as much automation in the world as there is now.

Yet employment is at high levels (until COVID-19).

For all this talk about AI and automation, employment simply keeps rising.

Sure, some boring jobs in factories are automated.

That's great, workers can move on to more interesting tasks.

Yes, there are costs for these workers, re-training, etc.

Remember, if productivity rises, real wages should rise.

So I say, bring it on, bring forth so much automation that labour productivity rises fast, and all the workers are rewarded with higher real wages.

The car plants of the world are full of robots, and well-paid staff.

Geuze · 14-05-2020 12:20am

completedit wrote: »

AI is coming for all jobs sooner or later.

Please be specific, as there are many labour shortages in 2019, pre-COVID.

Employment rates are reaching record highs.

https://ec.europa.eu/eurostat/statistics-explained/index.php?title=Employment_statistics#Highest_employment_rate_ever_recorded_since_2005

RandomViewer · 14-05-2020 12:30am

completedit wrote: »

At the end of the day, if we can work a system out that works better for society and the people who make that up, then we have to pursue it. There is no inherent reason why our life is comprised of 40-60 hour work weeks to 'pay for things we don't really need'(to use that apt but tiresome quote)

Now, my attitude is that there is something inherent in humanity that wants to work. I think we would feel odd if we didn't. It would just be better if our jobs could have more meaning and be less caught up in their own importance.

Since the start of the lockdown I've been working 2 weeks on , 2 weeks off, I've got a lot of stuff done around the house but boredom sets in the second week, I have little interest in money ,I've always got by on whatever so it's not a money thing just a n occupy the mind thing, I make stuff might be different to people who shuffle paper or look at a screen all day,

RandomViewer · 14-05-2020 12:33am

Geuze wrote: »

Is it?

There has never been as much automation in the world as there is now.

Yet employment is at high levels (until COVID-19).

For all this talk about AI and automation, employment simply keeps rising.

Sure, some boring jobs in factories are automated.

That's great, workers can move on to more interesting tasks.

Yes, there are costs for these workers, re-training, etc.

Remember, if productivity rises, real wages should rise.

So I say, bring it on, bring forth so much automation that labour productivity rises fast, and all the workers are rewarded with higher real wages.

The car plants of the world are full of robots, and well-paid staff.

Truth is someone has to watch the robots, they run to exacting standards, if something not exacting enters their sphere they run into problems.

completedit · 14-05-2020 12:34am

Geuze wrote: »

Is it?

There has never been as much automation in the world as there is now.

Yet employment is at high levels (until COVID-19).

For all this talk about AI and automation, employment simply keeps rising.

Sure, some boring jobs in factories are automated.

That's great, workers can move on to more interesting tasks.

Yes, there are costs for these workers, re-training, etc.

Remember, if productivity rises, real wages should rise.

So I say, bring it on, bring forth so much automation that labour productivity rises fast, and all the workers are rewarded with higher real wages.

The car plants of the world are full of robots, and well-paid staff.

Except that productivity has skyrocketed and wages have fallen in the OECD.

Flavour Diaper · 14-05-2020 12:36am

Pintman Paddy Losty wrote: »

One thing is for sure... You won't be seen as the right kind of citizen. You're a wrong un', the owner of a diseased mind.

Btw, I got that little lockbox I was talking about Paddy.

14-05-2020 12:45am

I don't think we'll see UBI in my lifetime (I'm 32, by the way!) but I can see the upsides for society as a whole. A flat-rate, given to everyone without rules or regulations, means that people who want to work, but would make less than the dole by working part time, get to go to work.

You'd likely end up with a lot more part time workers, and the major companies that are turning enormous profits year on year, but paying minimum wage to employees, would have to start to offer something that's actually attractive to potential employees.

The upside for the company is you'd get employees with a legitimate interest in working for you, and the upside for the employee is he isn't simply working a job to avoid being poor forever.

Like many arguments, though, I also can't understand how it would make sense for UBI to exist, from a national level of finance.

People argue that most people would be net contributors to the system, but I'm not sure that's true. You'd definitely save lots of money on administration and staffing costs in offices that deal with social welfare style payments. I think you'd then have to charge severe taxes on any incomes to cover the cost of giving everyone €200 without asking any questions.

There'd have to be a cut-off that didn't hurt poorer people (for example, like the real done; once you have X amount of money saved you can't get it). But in general I do think it's a good idea and should be supported, or at least have a proper government review of the suggestion and see is it workable.

I believe a few countries have already trialled it? How are they getting on?!

RandomViewer wrote: »

I have little interest in money ,I've always got by on whatever so it's not a money thing just a n occupy the mind thing

Yeah, but the only people that have 'little interest in money' are the ones who aren't stuck for it. Most people go to work simply to put food on the table and pay the mortgage.

lalababa · 14-05-2020 12:58am

Potential-Monke wrote: »

I don't understand UBI fully, but I genuinely can't see how giving Irish people more money when not working will solve the issues. We already have a fairly hefty part of society that refuse to work because we make it financially viable for them to not work. Add another €150 or whatever on top of the dole, and this will apparently incentivise people to want to work? I just can't see it.

Would introducing it remove the social housing situation? Like, would we still give free houses to people? And if so, do we take a proper chunk of the UBI to pay for it, or will they continue to get them for free/pittance? What about all the other payments we currently give for no reason? Would they all be scrapped or kept on top of UBI?

I do want to know, as I still can't see how giving people more free money will make them want to work.

I think you've got the wrong end of the stick. UBI is basically a payment to everyone. There would be no more UA. Don't know bout UB...better gone aswell. And UBI would probably be a tad less than UA. ie the dole. So the only payment to everyone over 18 would be around 150 euros. The people declaring work tax would pay for it but get it straight back. A brilliant idea, but it would be fudged by our tds ...they would say 150 is not enough, and would still be paying out lumps in RA and family income support.

RandomViewer · 14-05-2020 12:59am

Deleted User wrote: »

I don't think we'll see UBI in my lifetime (I'm 32, by the way!) but I can see the upsides for society as a whole. A flat-rate, given to everyone without rules or regulations, means that people who want to work, but would make less than the dole by working part time, get to go to work.

You'd likely end up with a lot more part time workers, and the major companies that are turning enormous profits year on year, but paying minimum wage to employees, would have to start to offer something that's actually attractive to potential employees.

The upside for the company is you'd get employees with a legitimate interest in working for you, and the upside for the employee is he isn't simply working a job to avoid being poor forever.

Like many arguments, though, I also can't understand how it would make sense for UBI to exist, from a national level of finance.

People argue that most people would be net contributors to the system, but I'm not sure that's true. You'd definitely save lots of money on administration and staffing costs in offices that deal with social welfare style payments. I think you'd then have to charge severe taxes on any incomes to cover the cost of giving everyone €200 without asking any questions.

There'd have to be a cut-off that didn't hurt poorer people (for example, like the real done; once you have X amount of money saved you can't get it). But in general I do think it's a good idea and should be supported, or at least have a proper government review of the suggestion and see is it workable.

I believe a few countries have already trialled it? How are they getting on?!

Yeah, but the only people that have 'little interest in money' are the ones who aren't stuck for it. Most people go to work simply to put food on the table and pay the mortgage.

Not wealthy by any version of the word, just don't get worried about it anymore, bottomed out in 2008 and got a bit stressed about it.things levelled out ,said I'd never let the same happen again. Owe about 3k on a credit card, no other debts , don't have a mortgage, have no savings,

J. Marston · 14-05-2020 1:35am

What is UBI exactly? The dole?

Are you prepared for UBI?

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