BusConnects Dublin - Bus Network Changes Discussion

end of the road · 30-05-2017 12:28am

Peregrine wrote: »

It's difficult to sell, yes, and there will be uproar but there comes a point where they have to realise that the uproar is completely ridiculous and get on with it.

it's not ridiculous to them so they don't have to realise anything. if they wish to protect a service that benefits them in full then they are correct to try and do so, rather then allow themselves be given a service of a lesser quality. everyone of us would do the exact same for better or worse, we all want to protect the good things we have.

Peregrine wrote: »

Uproar against a decision to make people in low density housing areas walk a duration of 5 minutes to catch a bus just has to be ignored and politicians shouldn't be allowed to meddle.

that would be against democracy and those people will correctly insure they cannot be ignored.

bk wrote: »

I think this and the other issues discussed above is why the NTA want to do BRT.

If they can make it seem something special and different then just a "normal" bus, then people will accept it working in a different way to what they are use to from buses and accept change.

- Routes that don't wind through estates, people need to walk to major roads to get to it.
- Less bus stops, much more staggered out and planned.
- Off bus ticketing, zero interaction with driver. Can't "chat" with him, literally closed off Luas style.
- High quality bus stops.
- 3 to 4 doors, enter/exit through all doors.
- Single decker, no struggling upstairs, easier for elderly and disabled. Faster dwell times.
- Much greater priority along the routes.

It really looks like an effort to fix all that is wrong with DB services.

I'd say they think that if they can prove these "new" concepts on BRT that there will be less public resistance to introducing at least some of these on DB. Perhaps the public will even start calling for these changes, like we saw with the Luas.

i'm not sure their aim will work this time as it still involves a bus.
one of the reasons luas is as successful as it is is because generally rail based transport is a much better form of transport to get around the city and the people see this. bus is just inefficient and even the brt i believe isn't going to change that reality.

also, if the NTA think the public are suddenly going to stop resisting changes to things that benefit them currently because of some concepts implemented on what is essentially an over-priced bus service then in my view they might be in for a shock.

but time will tell i guess.

Spanish Eyes wrote: »

Because it is not given priority. With bus lanes, traffic lights nothing. And no consistency with timings either.

No wonder it is the Cinderella of public transport.

the thing is that view goes right back to when the trams were destroyed. the people wanted the tram system to remain as even then they knew it was a much better, more efficient option then the replacement busses. yes of course bus priority and so on will help those who have to rely on the busses and they are long over due. but the busses are in my view saw as they are because they are what they are.

n97 mini · 30-05-2017 12:45am

Not defending the dismantling of the tram system but if you look at the old maps a lot of the bends were only suitable for trams shorter than today's buses. If we still had the network a lot of it would be unusable. Dublin in 1930 had a population of 400,000, almost 1 million less than today. Places like Castleknock were small towns well outside the city, and the tram network reflected that.

Cookie_Monster · 30-05-2017 12:54am

n97 mini wrote: »

Not defending the dismantling of the tram system but if you look at the old maps a lot of the bends were only suitable for trams shorter than today's buses. If we still had the network a lot of it would be unusable. Dublin in 1930 had a population of 400,000, almost 1 million less than today. Places like Castleknock were small towns well outside the city, and the tram network reflected that.

But the system would hardly have stood still if left in place*, it would have evolved. Look at the tram system in Amsterdam say, it's moved with the times...

* - actually being Ireland T&Cs apply to that statement

Tae laidir · 30-05-2017 1:21am

I have looked at the Orbital Route between Dun Laoghaire & Blanchardstown.
On the South Side it appears to follow the R112.
Looks like the Braemor Road may be dug up again to put in Bus lanes? They must have spent a fortune recently on it.
Then there is the Greentrees Road/St. Pater's Road/Walkinstown Avenue Section. Looks like a lot of on-street parking will be lost for Bus lanes?
The route progresses along Kylemore Road (the scene of daily havoc to the 18 schedule) which can't be widened (Grand Canal & Railway Bridges).
It then appears to continue through Ballyfermot Road.
And now the interesting bit!
It seems to make its way across the Liffey at Chapelizod Bridge, and appears to enter the Phoenix Park at Capelizod Gate. It then appears to cross the 15 Acres, and exits somewhere near the Cabra Gates.
Unsurprisingly, the map is sufficiently vague in detail, but the intent cannot be hidden. The only other option is up Knockmaroon Hill!
I would not be hopeful of ever seeing it happen!

end of the road · 30-05-2017 1:33am

n97 mini wrote: »

Not defending the dismantling of the tram system but if you look at the old maps a lot of the bends were only suitable for trams shorter than today's buses. If we still had the network a lot of it would be unusable. Dublin in 1930 had a population of 400,000, almost 1 million less than today. Places like Castleknock were small towns well outside the city, and the tram network reflected that.

all of that could have been sorted out. instead of spending lots of money to facilitate the private car and inefficient busses, modernisation and even extension of the system could have happened. even if it didn't have hords of people using it afterwords, doing it would have had dublin as a forward thinking, modern public transport friendly city which would have been future proofed and attractive to outside investment. alas it wasn't to be.

hatrickpatrick · 30-05-2017 6:31am

The elephant in the room here is who's going to pay for all this? Fare inflation on all forms of public transport has got completely out of hand in recent years and in my view is the #1 reason people aren't taking it more often. If this results in further massive fare hikes in the coming years, it will get a massive "f*ck right off" from me anyway.

Zebra3 · 30-05-2017 7:07am

Spanish Eyes wrote: »

The big sell should be speed of journey. That's what everyone wants. If that involves culling some stops so be it.

But the driver should have NO interraction with the passengers. No cash or Leap interraction for starters. I don't know how they will get over the tourist/local information they provide though. Great as it is, it slows down everyone's journey!

That's how it works in Zurich.

Bus stops, multiple doors open, customers alight/board, seconds later bus moves on, customers have multiple validators to choose from. Driver has no interaction with customers.

It ain't rocket science.

L1011 · 30-05-2017 7:54am

Cookie_Monster wrote: »

But the system would hardly have stood still if left in place*, it would have evolved. Look at the tram system in Amsterdam say, it's moved with the times...

* - actually being Ireland T&Cs apply to that statement

That's because it was nearly entirely rebuilt after being nearly entirely removed. They only kept the lines where buses wouldn't fit originally

LeinsterDub · 30-05-2017 8:13am

end of the road wrote: »

the thing is that view goes right back to when the trams were destroyed. the people wanted the tram system to remain as even then they knew it was a much better, more efficient option then the replacement busses. yes of course bus priority and so on will help those who have to rely on the busses and they are long over due. but the busses are in my view saw as they are because they are what they are.

There appears to be little to no evidence of that

LeinsterDub · 30-05-2017 8:17am

end of the road wrote: »

all of that could have been sorted out. instead of spending lots of money to facilitate the private car and inefficient busses, modernisation and even extension of the system could have happened. even if it didn't have hords of people using it afterwords, doing it would have had dublin as a forward thinking, modern public transport friendly city which would have been future proofed and attractive to outside investment. alas it wasn't to be.

And this is looking back with the benefits of hindsight. At the time trams were considered outdated in the empire and the US (albeit will interference by the car cartel in the US)

Tae laidir · 30-05-2017 9:27am

Would it be possible for people to READ THE REPORT before commenting on this thread please.
It's HERE
There are plenty of other Forums where most of the items in this thread are discussed.

Some of the items I've noted:
No route integration with LUAS, DART or Rail.
3 termini at the Square, Tallaght: BRT, Radial Bus & LUAS.
No feeder buses for the BRT.
Orbital Buses appearing to travel across Phoenix Park from Chapelizod to Cabra, but Chesterfield Avenue reserved for cars and Open-Top buses.
Etc. Etc.

LXFlyer · 30-05-2017 9:49am

Tae laidir wrote: »

Would it be possible for people to READ THE REPORT before commenting on this thread please.
It's HERE
There are plenty of other Forums where most of the items in this thread are discussed.

Some of the items I've noted:
No route integration with LUAS, DART or Rail.
3 termini at the Square, Tallaght: BRT, Radial Bus & LUAS.
No feeder buses for the BRT.
Orbital Buses appearing to travel across Phoenix Park from Chapelizod to Cabra, but Chesterfield Avenue reserved for cars and Open-Top buses.
Etc. Etc.

With respect all that was presented yesterday was aspirational with pretty much zero detail. The "corridors" (in particular the orbital ones) included in that document stem from previous NTA thinking. As none of the orbital corridors are in place yet, they could change completely.

The network review is only starting now. Until we actually see the output from the network review process, all of the above is pure conjecture.

It could come up with completely different orbital routes, feeder buses etc.

We are all going to have wait until the detailed plans are published and see what they actually contain.

I really wouldn't dwell on those diagrams at all.

Rather I would treat that document as aspirations.

Until we see actual detail on individual routes and frequencies no one can really pass judgment on this.

brokenarms · 30-05-2017 9:54am

The map of the route with each stop on page 19 of that PDF should save a load of time .

Buses get held up quite a bit with the the driver trying to explain to tourists (often with broken english) were they are going.

All these plans look great. But they will take years to happen.

People on community facebook groups are already up in arms in some areas, listing TDs names and email addresses to air there misgivings. This sort of thing will hold it up longer than the unions will take to hammer out a deal...

Here is a quote from one..

Here is a screen grab from the National Transport Authorities website. Notice how Knocklyon is completely by-passed for the proposed Bus Rapid Transit route from Tallaght to Clongriffin via the City Centre !?
Don't say you have not been warned! Demand the services and facilities that you want to see in Knocklyon from your Councillors, TD's and County Council! Let them know regularly what you would like for your area.
Here is a list of useful email addresses- (phone numbers are available with a simple web search) : info@nationaltransport.ie , info@sdublincoco.ie , shane.ross@oireachtas.ie , Minister@dttas.ie , colm.brophy@oireachtas.ie , sean.crowe@oireachtas.ie , katherine.zappone@oireachtas.ie , jlahart@sdublincoco.ie , paul.murphy@oireachtas.ie , pfoley@cllrs.sdublincoco.ie , pkearns@sdublincoco.ie , dlooney@cllrs.sdublincoco.ie , rmcmahon@cllrs.sdublincoco.ie , blawlor@cllrs.sdublincoco.ie , efanning@cllrs.sdublincoco.ie , fnduffy@cllrs.sdublincoco.ie , pdonovan@cllrs.sdublincoco.ie , dodonovan@cllrs.sdublincoco.ie , sholland@cllrs.sdublincoco.ie ,

bk · 30-05-2017 9:59am

end of the road wrote: »

i'm not sure their aim will work this time as it still involves a bus.
one of the reasons luas is as successful as it is is because generally rail based transport is a much better form of transport to get around the city and the people see this. bus is just inefficient and even the brt i believe isn't going to change that reality.

also, if the NTA think the public are suddenly going to stop resisting changes to things that benefit them currently because of some concepts implemented on what is essentially an over-priced bus service then in my view they might be in for a shock.

but time will tell i guess.

That is a very sad and pessimistic attitude!

Thing is the first time I travelled on bus abroad, I was literally blown away by how good it was. Bus pulls up, dozens of people get off and on, bus pulls away a few seconds later!

I saw that it was vastly superior to what we had in Dublin and really I see no reason why we can't have the same here.

Personally I suspect that if the NTA can do the same as what is the norm in the rest of Europe with BRT (and I see no reason why they can't) then the public here will love it and will soon be calling for the same from the rest of DB.

The rubbishing of the BRT project is much the same I saw from commenter's here on boards and elsewhere about Luas. About how it wasn't going to be a success and would be rubbish. Well we all know how that one worked out :rolleyes:

So lets wait and see how BRT works out and lets hope it will be success and will spur DB to do better with it's own service.

LXFlyer · 30-05-2017 10:01am

brokenarms wrote: »

The map of the route with each stop on page 19 of that PDF should save a load of time .

Buses get held up quite a bit with the the driver trying to explain to tourists (often with broken english) were they are going.

All these plans look great. But they will take years to happen.

People on community facebook groups are already up in arms in some areas, listing TDs names and email addresses to air there misgivings. This sort of thing will hold it up longer than the unions will take to hammer out a deal...

Here is a quote from one..

Here is a screen grab from the National Transport Authorities website. Notice how Knocklyon is completely by-passed for the proposed Bus Rapid Transit route from Tallaght to Clongriffin via the City Centre !?
Don't say you have not been warned! Demand the services and facilities that you want to see in Knocklyon from your Councillors, TD's and County Council! Let them know regularly what you would like for your area.
Here is a list of useful email addresses- (phone numbers are available with a simple web search) : info@nationaltransport.ie , info@sdublincoco.ie , shane.ross@oireachtas.ie , Minister@dttas.ie , colm.brophy@oireachtas.ie , sean.crowe@oireachtas.ie , katherine.zappone@oireachtas.ie , jlahart@sdublincoco.ie , paul.murphy@oireachtas.ie , pfoley@cllrs.sdublincoco.ie , pkearns@sdublincoco.ie , dlooney@cllrs.sdublincoco.ie , rmcmahon@cllrs.sdublincoco.ie , blawlor@cllrs.sdublincoco.ie , efanning@cllrs.sdublincoco.ie , fnduffy@cllrs.sdublincoco.ie , pdonovan@cllrs.sdublincoco.ie , dodonovan@cllrs.sdublincoco.ie , sholland@cllrs.sdublincoco.ie ,

This is going to take time to deliver - some elements can happen fairly quickly, but others will take longer.

But rushing to judgment before detailed plans are published as the above group appear to be doing is frankly ludicrous.

As I said above - until detailed plans are published with individual routes and frequencies, it is impossible to judge this.

At the same time expecting high frequency BRT to be in the middle of housing areas rather than on a main road (such as Firhouse Road) is daft - that's where feeder buses come in - provided there is no second fare penalty.

Tae laidir · 30-05-2017 10:06am

lxflyer wrote: »

The network review is only starting now. Until we actually see the output from the network review process, all of the above is pure conjecture.

It could come up with completely different orbital routes, feeder buses etc.

We are all going to have wait until the detailed plans are published and see what they actually contain.

So, essentially a publicity stunt by Shane Ross & Anne Graham?
How much did this cost?

LXFlyer · 30-05-2017 10:13am

Tae laidir wrote: »

So, essentially a publicity stunt by Shane Ross & Anne Graham?
How much did this cost?

Yesterday was simply launching the project to the media and telling people in very broad terms what it entails.

The network review, which is a key part of the project, is itself is going to take until next year to produce.

Until you see detailed proposals including routes and frequencies for bus routes that come out of the review, I would not dwell at all on it.

I certainly would not treat any of the network drawings in that document as final.

Tae laidir · 30-05-2017 10:13am

lxflyer wrote: »

At the same time expecting high frequency BRT to be in the middle of housing areas rather than on a main road (such as Firhouse Road) is daft - that's where feeder buses come in

Unfortunately, Feeder Buses are not mentioned at all in the report!

LXFlyer · 30-05-2017 10:21am

Tae laidir wrote: »

Unfortunately, Feeder Buses are not mentioned at all in the report!

With respect no detail is given about individual bus routes.

The network review is only starting now. Until we see what that suggests, we don't know if they will or will not be included. What we are promised is that the entire network is going to be redesigned.

You're taking the contents of that document far too literally - it's just meant as a simple guide. Not to be treated as the final output.

Wait until detailed proposals start appearing - then you can start to judge it properly.

Tae laidir · 30-05-2017 10:29am

So, it appears that Leap Cards, introduced on 1st November 2014, has a fatal flaw, as it doesn't allow Tag-on / Tag-off, and it will be retired.
According to news reports at the time, the project cost €55 million.
Anyone from the PAC reading?

bk · 30-05-2017 10:30am

Details of the BusConnects plan here:
https://www.nationaltransport.ie/wp-content/uploads/2017/05/BusConnects_Brochure_Final.pdf

While there is more detail to come (network redesign), I have to say overall it is all very welcome. It reads like pretty much everything we want to see from a modern, efficient bus service.

The main goals are:

- building a network of â€œnext generationÃ¢â‚¬ bus corridors on the
busiest bus routes to make bus journeys faster, predictable
and reliable;

- introducing Bus Rapid Transit, a higher quality of bus system,
on three of the busiest corridors;

- completely redesigning the network of bus routes to provide
a more efficient network, connecting more places and
carrying more passengers;

- developing a state-of-the-art ticketing system using credit
and debit cards or mobile phones to link with payment
accounts and making payment much more convenient;

- implementing a cashless payment system to vastly speed up
passenger boarding times;

- revamping the fare system to provide a simpler fare
structure, allowing seamless movement between different
transport services without financial penalty;

- implementing a new bus livery providing a modern look and
feel to the new bus system;

- rolling out new bus stops with better signage and
information and increasing the provision of additional bus
shelters; and

- transitioning - starting now - to a new bus fleet using low-
emission vehicle technologies.

Only the third point above is affected by the network review, which doesn't seem to include the 3 new BRT routes, nor the core 11 QBC routes:

Our objective is to develop these eleven radial bus corridors
and three orbital bus corridors so that each will have continuous
bus priority â€“ in other words, a continuous bus lane in each
direction. This â€œnext generationÃ¢â‚¬ of bus corridors will deliver a
transformation in the performance of these routes, making it
easier and quicker for you to come and go by bus, whether your
journey is related to your job, your studies, or your social life and
family life.

....

Achieving this will, in some instances, require a widening of
the road and changes to parking arrangements, but the end
result will not just be better services for bus passengers, but will
benefit all users of the corridor.

Very welcome. We have seen how the bus gate has benefited us and how widening the road at the Cat & Cage in Drumcondra was a massive success. More such projects and removal of onstreet car parking to give more space and priority to buses is highly welcome.

BTW for the planned Radial route that runs along Griffith Avenue, I don't know why they don't have it continuing along the Eastern end of Griffith Avenue.

On ticketing:

This will require a move to either a â€œtag-onÃ¢â‚¬ and â€œtag-offÃ¢â‚¬ facility,
similar to Luas and DART, or a single â€œflat fareÃ¢â‚¬ approach in
order to reduce the need to interact with the driver for fare
payments.

Haha, it feels like the authors of this report are literally reading my mind. I have to send the NTA my consultancy fee

On the new bus livery:

I do understand then need for a Neutral, non DB livery, however I have to say I hate the look of the new NTA livery as shown in this document.

On bus stops:

All operators will adopt this style and the current assortment of poles at multi-operator stops will be removed.

Very welcome.

On low emission buses:

The exact low emission technology remains to be determined.
Research is currently on-going into electric bus solutions, with
the technology evolving rapidly and several manufacturers now
bringing different vehicle options to market. Compressed natural
gas / biogas are relatively mature technologies which are now
extensively available to bus fleets.

As part of the BusConnects project, a decision on the optimum
fleet technology will be made by the end of 2017, and either
a single technology or a combination will be selected. A fleet
acquisition plan will be developed to transition the bus fleet to
low emission vehicle types, with the first vehicles under that
strategy to go into service during 2018.
By 2023 half of the bus fleet, approximately 500 buses, will
be converted to low emission vehicles. Full conversion will be
completed by 2030.

The document also mentions more RTPI screens.

Overall the whole document seems to be describing exactly what we want. I hope they can implement most or all of it.

LXFlyer · 30-05-2017 10:31am

Tae laidir wrote: »

So, it appears that Leap Cards, introduced on 1st November 2014, has a fatal flaw, as it doesn't allow Tag-on / Tag-off, and it will be retired.
According to news reports at the time, the project cost ?55 million.
Anyone from the PAC reading?

LEAP already allows tag on and tag off on LUAS and Irish Rail - so I don't see how you can conclude that.

bk · 30-05-2017 10:40am

lxflyer wrote: »

The network review is only starting now. Until we see what that suggests, we don't know if they will or will not be included. What we are promised is that the entire network is going to be redesigned.

Having just read the BusConnects document, I'd have to say that the majority of changes in it are independent of the network review.

It is clear that the 3 BRT routes and 11 core routes and the road works to improve them are pretty much set in stone with just minor adjustments. The rest of the network review is about how to design the rest of the network around BRT, Luas and these core routes.

The other improvements have nothing to do with the network redesign, contactless leap, cash fares going away, no driver interaction, new livery, low emission buses, new bus stops, etc.

Tae laidir wrote: »

So, it appears that Leap Cards, introduced on 1st November 2014, has a fatal flaw, as it doesn't allow Tag-on / Tag-off, and it will be retired.
According to news reports at the time, the project cost €55 million.
Anyone from the PAC reading?

Nowhere does this article say anything about that. tag-on /tag-off works fine on all leap card on Luas and DART and tag-on is already widely supported on DB.

The lack of tag-off on buses is more down to the single door nature of much of the fleet and perhaps the old age of the ticket machines which are much older then leap and very underpowered.

Having said that I'm pretty certain that tag-off could be introduced on even single door buses, though flat fare, tag on only would be preferable.

LXFlyer · 30-05-2017 10:51am

bk wrote: »

Having just read the BusConnects document, I'd have to say that the majority of changes in it are independent of the network review.

It is clear that the 3 BRT routes and 11 core routes and the road works to improve them are pretty much set in stone with just minor adjustments. The rest of the network review is about how to design the rest of the network around BRT, Luas and these core routes.

The other improvements have nothing to do with the network redesign, contactless leap, cash fares going away, no driver interaction, new livery, low emission buses, new bus stops, etc.

I was replying to a post with regard to routes and their design, and specifically the orbital routes and feeder bus routes to BRT.

No detailed plans have been published for those yet and I don't see them as being set in stone at all. I certainly don't see the suggested orbital corridors as being cast in stone.

Similarly for BRT, the only route that I think can be viewed with any degree of certainty is the Swords one as significant design work has already been completed. The others, in particular the route from Clongriffin to Tallaght south of the city centre is still very much up in the air.

The core radial routes are indeed set already, but how the bus route network that runs along them is designed isn't - bus routes could change along those corridors.

Of course the other material in the document is separate from the network review. I think that is a given. But there is still remains a significant amount of detail to be thrashed out for most of that too. That's where we have historically fallen down with most previous public transport initiatives in this country.

I was merely making the point that I would not take any of the route proposals as final until we start seeing detailed drawings for the corridors, and full bus route descriptions and frequencies for individual bus routes.

Treat that document as an introduction to the project, rather than the final decided output, that's all I was suggesting.

BonnieSituation · 30-05-2017 10:52am

john boye wrote: »

Don't get me started. The 2 outbound stops less than 100m from each other in Perrystown on the 150 are my favourite. Honourable mention too for the 2 outbound stops on Limekiln Rd and the 2 literally around the corner from one another on Belgard Square.

My bete noire is the distance between stop #400 (Pearse St/Shaw St) and #7588 (Pearse St/Tara St). [Red Line: Approx 84m]

Only the 25/A/B stop at both, then wind around Eden Quay via Tara St to the next stop 846m away on Aston Quay (Blue Line).

The 26/66/67 group however (Orange Line stop at #400 (Pearse St/Shaw St) - 224m- then #346 (Pearse St/Garda Station) - 322m- then #317 (Westmoreland St/Aston Quay)

Tae laidir · 30-05-2017 11:18am

lxflyer wrote: »

LEAP already allows tag on and tag off on LUAS and Irish Rail - so I don't see how you can conclude that.

Thanks, misread the report.:o

The dearth of Liffey bridges west of Islandbridge and the positioning of Phoenix Park are major obstacles to any Orbital routes. The report points out the M50 congestion issues, but Orbital traffic (including proposed Orbital buses) has nowhere else to go other than the M50 bridge.

bk · 30-05-2017 11:19am

lxflyer wrote: »

Treat that document as an introduction to the project, rather than the final decided output, that's all I was suggesting.

I agree completely, great comment. However I think the whole document is well worth discussing, which is why I've started a new thread to discuss it overall and not just the Network Review, which is just one important element of it.

lxflyer wrote: »

The core radial routes are indeed set already, but how the bus route network that runs along them is designed isn't - bus routes could change along those corridors.

Just on this point, you are absolutely correct that the Network Review will decide what routes use these corridors, but I think people are missing a more significant point from this document. That they plan to significantly upgrade all these routes, with a fully contiguous bus lanes, road widening works, removing onstreet car parking, dedicated cycle lane off the bus lane and other bus priority measures.

These changes are VERY significant, if done well they could significantly speed up which ever routes are decided to use these corridors.

antoinolachtnai · 30-05-2017 11:26am

bk wrote: »

Having just read the BusConnects document, I'd have to say that the majority of changes in it are independent of the network review.

It is clear that the 3 BRT routes and 11 core routes and the road works to improve them are pretty much set in stone with just minor adjustments. The rest of the network review is about how to design the rest of the network around BRT, Luas and these core routes.

The other improvements have nothing to do with the network redesign, contactless leap, cash fares going away, no driver interaction, new livery, low emission buses, new bus stops, etc.

It is quite interesting. The network review as described is likely to drive to the conclusion that BRT as planned is too close to the Luas alignments, and it needs to be more orthogonal.

The other thing is that a lot of the characteristics that were originally planned for the BRT (like cashless, queue less, livery, new bus stops and so on) and now being proposed for the whole network.

For me, clear design issues have arisen from the BRT project. In particular, having two 'classes' of buses on BRT routes makes little sense. What is good for the BRT bus should, generally speaking, be good for the regular bus too. These BRTs are slowly morphing into corridors rather than fancy bus services.

So I think this is all to be welcomed.

I would also say that bus services in Dublin are about to enter a period of major crisis, as Luas cross-city comes in, attracting customers and breaking the pattern. It is really the last possible opportunity for some radical thinking.

TheQuietFella · 30-05-2017 11:35am

They are not dealing though with the increasing volumes of traffic coming in to Dublin on a daily basis. In my opinion they need to electronically toll all traffic that come in to Dublin. The closer you drive to the city centre the more expensive it becomes!

According to the advertising on BE buses there are 150 buses servicing Ashbourne and Ratoath daily but you would never think that going by the traffic volumes leaving those towns in the early morning!

Are people too posh to use public transport?
We can't have it everyway!

Dravokivich · 30-05-2017 11:40am

Maybe the routes don't match the demand.

BusConnects Dublin - Bus Network Changes Discussion

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