1980's New York City - better or worse than today?

Rothko · 29-08-2020 1:39am

I've never been to New York but I do love that whole 70's vibe that you see with movies like Taxi Driver and Mean Streets. If it's not like that anymore then it's probably better off.

Igotadose · 29-08-2020 9:36am

Deleted User wrote: »

Compare 2016 vs 2006. Murders have gone up in the past few years.

Your claim. You provide the data. I'd recommend a 'Chicago Murder Rate' thread to discuss, feel free to start one.

DS86DS · 29-08-2020 4:18pm

Great documentary on the 1977 blackout in NYC.

https://youtu.be/L4OipBR29Gk

Muahahaha · 29-08-2020 4:27pm

Igotadose wrote: »

Now, it's hideously expensive with a staggering tax load. NJ isn't much cheaper. Horrendous commutes. The place is, again, losing population. I moved away from NJ in 2003 and haven't looked back, except for a year living on the UWS where I had a front-row seat to the awfulness. The subways had 'lipstick on a pig' but were as grim as they were when I was a kid and they cost 20cents, later 25 (now, I think it's $3.)

Havent been to NY myself (have been meaning to go for years but something always gets in the way) but what kind of commutes are people doing into Manhattan? Is it like London where people are commuting up to 2 hours and sometimes more each way?

Igotadose · 29-08-2020 4:40pm

Muahahaha wrote: »

Havent been to NY myself (have been meaning to go for years but something always gets in the way) but what kind of commutes are people doing into Manhattan? Is it like London where people are commuting up to 2 hours and sometimes more each way?

Depends where you are commuting from. But, 2 hours each way wouldn't be unknown. The closer you live, the shorter the commute, the more expensive. Our last apartment on the UWS, 1 bedroom, walk to work, left in 2015 when the rent hit $3600/month for what was pretty dismal digs. Brooklyn, a half hour to work via subway if they were working and you didn't mind the 'rattled like a sardine in a can' experience during rush hour, was probably $3200.

Place is a kip. Plain and simple. Nice for the odd vacation. Can't live there.

bo0li5eumx12kp · 29-08-2020 8:05pm

Muahahaha wrote: »

Havent been to NY myself (have been meaning to go for years but something always gets in the way) but what kind of commutes are people doing into Manhattan? Is it like London where people are commuting up to 2 hours and sometimes more each way?

My commute was 1 hour and I had it easy - and it was a horrible commute.
Gangster ass area, horrible train crowding, blistering heat and wading through packed stairwells onto packed streets.

You walk 4 blocks in NY, it feels like 4 miles, simply cause of the overcrowding.
Crossing the street is like a tight rope cause traffic is setup that cars basically have to crawl through pedestrian crossings.

And bikes - forget about it!!
They don't have a bike infrastructure.
Prepare to be hit, or get it, or hear, "yo man, get the fuck up out the road!".

Dude was worked with me used to get up 5:30 each morning to be on time 8 am - 6 days a week.

And funny thing is, in NY they embrace that like, "we can handle this jungle, we're real street" (a funny saying they have there).

Now let me say again, this is working there.

First week there, I cruised around the trains, walked on and under bridges, watched the construction, listened to U2 songs about the "New York city skylines" and stood there looking in on Manhattan from Brooklyn during sunset, I thought this is a magical place.

.....

Then I got a job and joined the rat race and realised it's a total god damn fraud, lol.

"Fight capital of the world", Madison square garden, "Playboys paradise" etc - it's just a sugar quoting for tourists, because the reality is it delivers absolutely none of that.

30-08-2020 7:11am

Just watched a very interesting but skewed documentary called Yusuf Hawkins: Storm Over Brooklyn.

Worth a look for anyone who is interested in the history of the city.

https://m.imdb.com/title/tt8594010/

Igotadose · 30-08-2020 8:41am

Adelina Repulsive Tournament wrote: »

My commute was 1 hour and I had it easy - and it was a horrible commute.
Gangster ass area, horrible train crowding, blistering heat and wading through packed stairwells onto packed streets.

You walk 4 blocks in NY, it feels like 4 miles, simply cause of the overcrowding.
Crossing the street is like a tight rope cause traffic is setup that cars basically have to crawl through pedestrian crossings.

And bikes - forget about it!!
They don't have a bike infrastructure.
Prepare to be hit, or get it, or hear, "yo man, get the fuck up out the road!".

Dude was worked with me used to get up 5:30 each morning to be on time 8 am - 6 days a week.

And funny thing is, in NY they embrace that like, "we can handle this jungle, we're real street" (a funny saying they have there).

Now let me say again, this is working there.

First week there, I cruised around the trains, walked on and under bridges, watched the construction, listened to U2 songs about the "New York city skylines" and stood there looking in on Manhattan from Brooklyn during sunset, I thought this is a magical place.

.....

Then I got a job and joined the rat race and realised it's a total god damn fraud, lol.

"Fight capital of the world", Madison square garden, "Playboys paradise" etc - it's just a sugar quoting for tourists, because the reality is it delivers absolutely none of that.

On the weekends (this was 2014-2015) when we traveled on the subway, my wife & I played the 'count rats' game we made up. The first person to spot a rat in the subway got one point. The one with the most points won. One weekend I scored 14 points to her 10! West 4th St/Washington Square was by far the best subway stop for counting rats, especially in wet weather when the track beds got wet and fresh garbage flowed in. But, even in rush hour with thousands of people crammed into the trains and on the platforms you'd still see the odd rat.

That was different than when we'd walk around the reservoir in Central Park in the winter to admire the scenery. There, we wouldn't count the rats but you had to step lively as they'd otherwise run across your feet.

At night, I'd occasionally come home late via subway to the AMNH station. The museum is in Teddy Roosevelt park. Well, old Teddy could have had plenty of target practice in the park shooting rats, even in the dark you could see them skulking around when the moonlight hit them. Much larger than the subway rats, though I never did stop to count them as being outside in NYC early in the a.m. was always a little scary.

bo0li5eumx12kp · 30-08-2020 10:34am

lol yeah I worked in a building on 42nd and sometimes the rat exterminators would come around.

Them dudes used to dress up like a dude from Ghostbusters or something, with the backpacks, pants tucked into their socks, some kind of spray canisters or spray device in each hand like they were getting ready to take on a Yeti or some formidable adversary.

I thought maybe that whole deal was for show,

.....

Until,

Our building was pretty high so from the upper floors we could look down on other buildings near by.
Sometimes on hot days we'd enjoy spotting chicks out on other rooftops, sunbathing in their bikini's etc.

One afternoon I was checking out this other rooftop where this Latin looking little hottie used to sunbath.

As it happened that day there was no one out on the rooftop but, from the distance there was this peculiar sight like..... it looked like part of the roof was moving, believe it or not.
Like an entire patch of the rooftop was actually flowing almost.

Then I realized it was actually just a huge pack of rats running across the roof platform whilst it was empty.
They were huddled so close together in their swarm and there were so many it just created that optic illusion for a few seconds that, the actual rooftop itself had come alive or something, lol.

bo0li5eumx12kp · 30-08-2020 10:42am

That being said, I'm sure 1970's/80's New York probably wasn't any better for rodent infestations.
That's one thing Giuliani didn't manage to clean up.

I like the point some poster made earlier about abortion illegality.

I saw a documentary about a basic REVERSE of this process I think it was in, Bulgaria or Romania or something.

Where abortion was made illegal and homeless numbers rocketed, creating all kinds of social dysfunction.

Basically reverse of what the aforementioned poster outlined in relation to NY.

Potential mothers in financially compromised situations were forced to have babies that could never have the opportunity to become functional due to their disadvantaged backgrounds, no money for school etc.

Giuliani somewhat responsible for "cleaning up" New York, but that's an interesting point also in terms of how change may have been brought about.

Don't know how much actual merit there is to it, factoring immigrant NY population etc but, still worth considering.

I thank the Irish government and current nation for success of the more recent abortion referendum here.

At least we got that right.

bo0li5eumx12kp · 30-08-2020 10:48am

I blame Frank Sinatra as well,

"If you can make it here you can, make it anywhere - New York!!".

Glamourization, it's that reputation the city thrives on, live there and become, "real street".

What a total cop out.

Igotadose · 30-08-2020 10:48am

Crime went down because of increased general prosperity. Birth control helped as nothing is worse for entering poverty young than having children early on. Fewer children goes with increased wealth, and that means less crime.

bo0li5eumx12kp · 30-08-2020 11:00am

Igotadose wrote: »

Crime went down because of increased general prosperity. Birth control helped as nothing is worse for entering poverty young than having children early on. Fewer children goes with increased wealth, and that means less crime.

So, Giuliani's reign and his control of organized crime, there's some merit to that argument also or, it just had a lesser hand to play that tends to get overstated?

I mean the phrase is, "Giuliani cleaned up NYC".
But to change the culture of an entire city, specific policies that were brought into place perhaps - focus seems to have been his targeting organized crime?

mojesius · 30-08-2020 11:08am

I spent a year in NYC in 2008 when I was 25. Very interesting time to be there with the stock market crash and Obama getting elected. Worked in a bar in East village and sublet a 1 bed on lower East side. You could walk home alone at any time of night alone and it was very safe, always people around. The only incident I heard of when I lived there was a woman assaulted near my apartment. The next morning, detectives called around with drawings of the suspect and advised me to take cabs to the door for the next while if going out and home at night. They caught him three days later.

I lived on a street with old buildings and it was used a lot for TV shows. Really fun to watch.

The only brutal season to live there was summer, stifling heat but every other season was a proper season, beautiful in autumn especially.

Don't think I'd have been brave enough to do 80s New York alone, east village was heroin and crime ridden at the time.

But it sounds a little dull now so happy I went when I did. From friends still living there, a lot of the music venues, dive bars and independent diners in the area have been turned into wine bars/coffee shops and it has lost a lot of character, which is a shame but happens everywhere I guess with gentrification.

Igotadose · 30-08-2020 11:12am

Adelina Repulsive Tournament wrote: »

So, Giuliani's reign and his control of organized crime, there's some merit to that argument also or, it just had a lesser hand to play that tends to get overstated?

I mean the phrase is, "Giuliani cleaned up NYC".
But to change the culture of an entire city, specific policies that were brought into place perhaps - focus seems to have been his targeting organized crime?

Be careful re Mafia and NYC and Giuliani. Mafia were targeted and well beaten back by the FEDERAL government and DOJ. RICO is a federal statute not local. Prosecutors are federal, a large number of big time mafia trials were prosecuted by the SDNY office, again Federal.

The big name prosecutor in those trials initially? Rudy Giuliani. He parlayed those victories into becoming Mayor. But I submit that the street crime reduction had little to do with actions taken by NYC. And, its still a kip, has always been in my lifetime, is losing population to better parts of the US and always will.

beauf · 30-08-2020 11:18am

Adelina Repulsive Tournament wrote: »

So, Giuliani's reign and his control of organized crime, there's some merit to that argument also or, it just had a lesser hand to play that tends to get overstated?

I mean the phrase is, "Giuliani cleaned up NYC".
But to change the culture of an entire city, specific policies that were brought into place perhaps - focus seems to have been his targeting organized crime?

He was only one part of large raft of charges including economic that happened the same time.

It's a thousand small changes not one or two major ones. But don't under estimate the small changes. We tend to be dismissive. But small changes are cumulative.

TOMs WIFE · 30-08-2020 11:30am

New York is suffering because of a lack of respect for police and leftism.

Daisy78 · 30-08-2020 11:33am

Yyhhuuu wrote: »

London far nicer than NY anyday

I’ve been to New York twice and London twice, both occasions as a tourist, so not sure how qualified I am to comment. I was completely meh about New York, yes the first couple of days it does impress, the scale and pace of the city definitely makes an impact. But I think it pales in comparison to London. I think there is a quirky bohemian element to London that appeals to me, it seemed to have more personality that New York. Also I’m sure the commute in London is just as bad but the thought of working long hours and getting on an overcrowded subway just feels overwhelming to me. Had another trip back to London for May this year, before Covid changed my plans, hopefully when all this virus business passes il get back there again for another couple of days.

Obvious Desperate Breakfasts · 30-08-2020 1:36pm

The comments underneath this NY Times article are pretty obnoxious. The people commenting do seem to think they are a cut above everyone else simply because they live in New York. It seems like it would be a city packed with giant egos. Don’t think that would be for me. Though admittedly that’s just my outsider viewpoint.

https://www.nytimes.com/2020/08/24/opinion/jerry-seinfeld-new-york-coronavirus.amp.html

Jerry Seinfeld: So You Think New York Is “Dead”?

(It’s not.)

beauf · 30-08-2020 2:42pm

This thread is no longer about the 1980s anyway.

Daisy78 · 30-08-2020 2:58pm

beauf wrote: »

This thread is no longer about the 1980s anyway.

Well I guess you would have had to lived in NYC in the eighties and still live there now, to properly answer that question. Don’t know if many people posting here fall under that demographic.

Yyhhuuu · 30-08-2020 3:14pm

Daisy78 wrote: »

I’ve been to New York twice and London twice, both occasions as a tourist, so not sure how qualified I am to comment. I was completely meh about New York, yes the first couple of days it does impress, the scale and pace of the city definitely makes an impact. But I think it pales in comparison to London. I think there is a quirky bohemian element to London that appeals to me, it seemed to have more personality that New York. Also I’m sure the commute in London is just as bad but the thought of working long hours and getting on an overcrowded subway just feels overwhelming to me. Had another trip back to London for May this year, before Covid changed my plans, hopefully when all this virus business passes il get back there again for another couple of days.

London far nicer to NY was my comment. I was in NY in early 2000s. I was staying in Chelsea. I thought certain areas of Manhattan were quite run down and there were strikingly impoverished homeless people walking the streets. I could not believe the amount of rats on the streets and meeting me coming up the steps of the subway.

I love London for its vibrant areas like Soho and the city's breathtaking architecture. I just love its Georgian terraces and many squares Central London is largely very well kept and quite rightly in my opinion trying to restrict traffic and camden council are introducing better cycle lanes. There isn't anything like the amount of junkies there are in central Dublin.

I would not return to New York.

hynesie08 · 30-08-2020 3:22pm

Adelina Repulsive Tournament wrote: »

So, Giuliani's reign and his control of organized crime, there's some merit to that argument also or, it just had a lesser hand to play that tends to get overstated?

I mean the phrase is, "Giuliani cleaned up NYC".
But to change the culture of an entire city, specific policies that were brought into place perhaps - focus seems to have been his targeting organized crime?

Giuliani helped in the mafia stakes, he also happened to be one of the luckiest men walking planet earth.

Dinkins convinced Disney to repair the 42nd street theatre, Giuliani was the mayor the year they actually did it.

The times square alliance was set up by koch, essentially as a way to put the clean up bill on the businesses, Giuliani shut down times square, the alliance were the ones who convinced new tenants to move in.....

The broken windows style of policing that batton instituted wouldn't have work if Ray kelly hadn't patched up a morally broken nypd and emphasised good community policing, so that black and Latin residents weren't afraid to report minor crimes.

He also benefitted from the mid 90s .Com bubble, which effectively tripled his budget.

I don't think Giuliani was a bad mayor per se, but he absolutely caught a ton of breaks.....

Muahahaha · 30-08-2020 3:31pm

Thats mad stuff about all the rats in the city. Plus seeing them on the roofs of skyscrapers, you know they have really taken over if they have gotten all the way up there. They say in London you are never more than a few metres away from a rat but they tend to be all underground. I've never seen one down in the Tube, Im sure they are there but it sounds like NY has a rampant infestation of them in comparison.

Igotadose wrote: »

Depends where you are commuting from. But, 2 hours each way wouldn't be unknown. The closer you live, the shorter the commute, the more expensive. Our last apartment on the UWS, 1 bedroom, walk to work, left in 2015 when the rent hit $3600/month for what was pretty dismal digs. Brooklyn, a half hour to work via subway if they were working and you didn't mind the 'rattled like a sardine in a can' experience during rush hour, was probably $3200.

Place is a kip. Plain and simple. Nice for the odd vacation. Can't live there.

Had forgotten how crazy rents are in NY, a mate was paying $3000 plus for what he said was a kip. I dont think Id be able to do that even if I had the wages to afford it. Id be spending all my time thinking of what better places there are to live for $3k a month.

Adelina Repulsive Tournament wrote: »

I blame Frank Sinatra as well,

"If you can make it here you can, make it anywhere - New York!!".

Glamourization, it's that reputation the city thrives on, live there and become, "real street".

What a total cop out.

A mate remarked to me before that New York must be the most written about city in the world in terms of song writing. He made the observation that every song about NY is like some sort of PR/Marketing campaign about how great the city is. Im reminded of Alicia Keys/Jay Z Empire State of Mind

Even if it ain't all it seems, I got a pocketful of dreams
Baby I'm from New York
Concrete jungle where dreams are made of
There's nothing you can't do
Now you're in New York
These streets will make you feel brand new
Big lights will inspire you
Hear it for New York, New York, New York

hynesie08 · 30-08-2020 3:55pm

Muahahaha wrote: »

.
A mate remarked to me before that New York must be the most written about city in the world in terms of song writing. He made the observation that every song about NY is like some sort of PR/Marketing campaign about how great the city is. Im reminded of Alicia Keys/Jay Z Empire State of Mind

There's an element of truth to it though, in the 50s and 60s to make it as a songwriter you had to come through brill buildings, punk and rock bands had to play cbgbs to get noticed, the entire east coast rap and hip hop scene ran through Queens and brooklyn, 90s pop stars were made by performing on TRL in times square, most classical performers dream about playing carnegie Hall. New York has always been the pulse of music,it's why so many artists are considered failures if they don't crack America.....

Igotadose · 30-08-2020 6:49pm

Someone asked, better in the '80s then, or now. My vote: now. Safer. Really unsafe then (not as awful as the 60's and 70s.')

But still a kip by far and not worth it. As someone born in that city in 1959, who lived in/near it till 1981, in NJ 82-2003, back in 2014 for a year, it really doesn't change much. Erodes, gets crazy expensive. But the infrastructure is rotting, and people flee.

Go there for a vacation, spend crazy money, fine. Just don't move there, there are many many places better in the US to live. Don't even think about it if you want to have a family, school systems a mega-kip, if that's a thing.

Yyhhuuu · 30-08-2020 7:03pm

Muahahaha wrote: »

Thats mad stuff about all the rats in the city. Plus seeing them on the roofs of skyscrapers, you know they have really taken over if they have gotten all the way up there. They say in London you are never more than a few metres away from a rat but they tend to be all underground. I've never seen one down in the Tube, Im sure they are there but it sounds like NY has a rampant infestation of them in comparison.

Had forgotten how crazy rents are in NY, a mate was paying $3000 plus for what he said was a kip. I dont think Id be able to do that even if I had the wages to afford it. Id be spending all my time thinking of what better places there are to live for $3k a month.

A mate remarked to me before that New York must be the most written about city in the world in terms of song writing. He made the observation that every song about NY is like some sort of PR/Marketing campaign about how great the city is. Im reminded of Alicia Keys/Jay Z Empire State of Mind

You are never more than a few metres away from a rat wherever you are. It's the amount of them. It's not just NY I have seen swarms of rats cross the road in San Francisco. In fairness I have never seen this in the many European cities I visited thanks to Ryanair. I only saw a few harmless mice in London underground.

Igotadose · 30-08-2020 7:08pm

Yyhhuuu wrote: »

You are never more than a few metres away from a rat wherever you are. It's the amount of them. It's not just NY I have seen swarms of rats cross the road in San Francisco. In fairness I have never seen this in the many European cities I visited thanks to Ryanair. I only saw a few harmless mice in London underground.

Another thing about rats in NYC. When Covid closed everything down, New Orleans took action to reduce it's rat population (which was stressed out as there wasn't food.) Good for them. Far as I can tell, NYC did nothing special. Typical NYC incompetent admin.

cj maxx · 30-08-2020 7:22pm

Yyhhuuu wrote: »

London far nicer to NY was my comment. I was in NY in early 2000s. I was staying in Chelsea. I thought certain areas of Manhattan were quite run down and there were strikingly impoverished homeless people walking the streets. I could not believe the amount of rats on the streets and meeting me coming up the steps of the subway.

I love London for its vibrant areas like Soho and the city's breathtaking architecture. I just love its Georgian terraces and many squares Central London is largely very well kept and quite rightly in my opinion trying to restrict traffic and camden council are introducing better cycle lanes. There isn't anything like the amount of junkies there are in central Dublin.

I would not return to New York.

There’s nothing in Chelsea. West side high 30’s if I remember. No nightlife up there.

thebronze14 · 30-08-2020 7:35pm

Igotadose wrote: »

On the weekends (this was 2014-2015) when we traveled on the subway, my wife & I played the 'count rats' game we made up. The first person to spot a rat in the subway got one point. The one with the most points won. One weekend I scored 14 points to her 10! West 4th St/Washington Square was by far the best subway stop for counting rats, especially in wet weather when the track beds got wet and fresh garbage flowed in. But, even in rush hour with thousands of people crammed into the trains and on the platforms you'd still see the odd rat.

That was different than when we'd walk around the reservoir in Central Park in the winter to admire the scenery. There, we wouldn't count the rats but you had to step lively as they'd otherwise run across your feet.

At night, I'd occasionally come home late via subway to the AMNH station. The museum is in Teddy Roosevelt park. Well, old Teddy could have had plenty of target practice in the park shooting rats, even in the dark you could see them skulking around when the moonlight hit them. Much larger than the subway rats, though I never did stop to count them as being outside in NYC early in the a.m. was always a little scary.

Spent two separate months in NYC while mates were doing J1. 2011 stayed in Brooklyn, 2014 in Manhattan. Loved it but not not a chance I would live there.

Glad I wasn't the only one that noticed all the rats. Have a bad fear of them and they were everywhere, on the streets and especially on the subway. I remember after a nights drinking in Manahattan I was getting the subway back to Brooklyn. The subway would be full of them late at night so I sat up on the steps on the way down. To my horror I looked behind me and there was a gargantuan one literally two steps away look me in the eye! Never ran as fast.

It was a great city to do what I was doing, exploring and going out. Always something to do or see. I preferred staying in Brooklyn. We were quite near Williamsburg which had some pretty cool bars and quirky shops. Hadn't experienced the hipsterness by this time living in Dublin but have certainly since! i think the place would annoy me more now. The reason I didn't like my mates place in Brooklyn was because it was mice infested! Would defo go back to visit again but would never live there or anywhere else in the States for that matter

1980's New York City - better or worse than today?

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