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We should support whistleblowing doctor!

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    #32
    imitation
    Registered Users Posts: 1,815 ✭✭✭imitation


    There was the statistic going around previously that the health system is down 5000 nurses since the moratorium began. We are also heading into the winter season which is a higher demand for hospitals.

    Its obvious to anybody what these facts would mean, but unfortunately Ireland runs on a reactionary system. Sensible management would dicate you carefully manage your money in the good times so you lesson the blow in the bad times. Instead we get deep cuts when its bad, and mad splurges when its good.

    Now there is some kind of recovery I guess there will be HSE recruiters all over Indonesia while the natives who studied here will have stay on in their medical jobs abroad..


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    #33
    NachoBusiness
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,389 ✭✭✭NachoBusiness


    One eyed Jack wrote: »
    Odd sort of a misinterpretation and misrepresentation of my post, and demonstrates exactly why I detest whistleblowers, because they twist and leak confidential information out of context to the general public.

    Since when has out of context whistleblowing done harm?

    Anyone that has done what you suggest, would lose credibility, and fast.
    I never mentioned anything about myself being incompetent or corrupt. I said that the likes of a whistleblower could have my head on the chopping block..

    So what. Saying you don't like whistleblowers because one day they might blow the whistle on you is as daft as it gets.
    If there is an issue within the system, work within the system to fix it, rather than airing grievances in public.

    LMAO. Now why didn't Frank Serpico think of that.
    I value loyalty and confidentiality over all else every day of the week.

    Even if it means tolerating corruption??

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hvCTnA-4d9A


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    #34
    One eyed Jack
    Registered Users Posts: 23,695 ✭✭✭✭One eyed Jack


    opiniated wrote: »
    It's a good thing that "the man" wasn't used, then.
    A man, was what was quoted.
    Far from being incompetent, or irresponsible, I would argue that a doctors first responsibility is to his patients (note: not one patient, but patients).
    His secondary duty is to provide the best possible service to the public - who, after all, pay his wages. The HSE merely manages/mismanages the funds that are provided by Joe Public.

    Hence, it was entirely responsible, and competent, for the doctor in question to release the information to the public, and far from "stabbing his employer in the back" (dramatisation, much?) - he correctly identified where his responsibilities lay, and did his best to honour them.

    Had he named the patient in question, or divulged his medical history, then he would have acted improperly. Since he didn't, he has absolutely no case to answer, and your empty protests are just that - empty, and without substance.


    A complaint was made by a patient about the doctor publicising his case without his prior knowledge or permission. That patient is now publicly identifiable, against their will. You may not wish to acknowledge that a patient should never have been put in that position, but fortunately the doctors employers disagree with you as they have grievance procedures in place for patients and patient advocacy groups already exist for patients who want to make a complaint against the hospital. The last thing anyone wants in their organisation is someone going all gung-ho and making a mess of things as the doctor has done in this case.

    Put yourself in that patients shoes for a minute.


    I doubt it. The civil service in general appear to be untouchable in this Country. Note - I am not criticising the entire civil service, but I suspect there are few people working in the civil service who don't know at least one person who is totally unsuitable for the work they (allegedly) do.


    Dramatisation much?


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    #35
    opiniated
    Closed Accounts Posts: 889 ✭✭✭opiniated


    One eyed Jack wrote: »
    A complaint was made by a patient about the doctor publicising his case without his prior knowledge or permission. That patient is now publicly identifiable, against their will. You may not wish to acknowledge that a patient should never have been put in that position, but fortunately the doctors employers disagree with you as they have grievance procedures in place for patients and patient advocacy groups already exist for patients who want to make a complaint against the hospital. The last thing anyone wants in their organisation is someone going all gung-ho and making a mess of things as the doctor has done in this case.

    Put yourself in that patients shoes for a minute.

    That patient is not now publicly identifiable.
    I can't identify him. I challenge you to identify him.

    I can quite easily put myself in that patients position. I'd be delighted if my doctor cared enough to fight for better services. The last one who tried, at my local hospital, was moved sideways to a position that he did not specialise in, then his department was starved of funds, until he resigned in disgust.

    As to the HSE being the doctors employers, let me ask you - who employs the HSE?


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    #36
    opiniated
    Closed Accounts Posts: 889 ✭✭✭opiniated


    NachoBusiness wrote: »

    Even if it means tolerating corruption??

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hvCTnA-4d9A

    One eyed Jack claims to value loyalty and confidentiality above all else.
    Apparently corruption or incompetence aren't at the top of his list of priorities.


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    #37
    Tasden
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,166 ✭✭✭Tasden


    opiniated wrote: »

    I can quite easily put myself in that patients position. I'd be delighted if my doctor cared enough to fight for better services. The last one who tried, at my local hospital, was moved sideways to a position that he did not specialise in, then his department was starved of funds, until he resigned in disgust.

    But you're not him and hes not delighted.


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    #38
    steddyeddy
    Registered Users Posts: 27,564 ✭✭✭✭steddyeddy


    opiniated wrote: »
    It's a good thing that "the man" wasn't used, then.
    A man, was what was quoted.
    Far from being incompetent, or irresponsible, I would argue that a doctors first responsibility is to his patients (note: not one patient, but patients).
    His secondary duty is to provide the best possible service to the public - who, after all, pay his wages. The HSE merely manages/mismanages the funds that are provided by Joe Public.

    Hence, it was entirely responsible, and competent, for the doctor in question to release the information to the public, and far from "stabbing his employer in the back" (dramatisation, much?) - he correctly identified where his responsibilities lay, and did his best to honour them.

    Had he named the patient in question, or divulged his medical history, then he would have acted improperly. Since he didn't, he has absolutely no case to answer, and your empty protests are just that - empty, and without substance.





    I doubt it. The civil service in general appear to be untouchable in this Country. Note - I am not criticising the entire civil service, but I suspect there are few people working in the civil service who don't know at least one person who is totally unsuitable for the work they (allegedly) do.

    I don't live in Ireland anymore but this is absolutely sickening. I was asking my colleagues in England is it the same over here I.E un-sackable incompetent employees and nepotism rife. They said it really isn't. We deserve better.


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    #39
    steddyeddy
    Registered Users Posts: 27,564 ✭✭✭✭steddyeddy


    Tasden wrote: »
    But you're not him and hes not delighted.

    Bad move by the doctor but it's not about him alone. It's about the doctors who work close to 80 hour weeks and the the effect on patients. The real crime here is how doctors and by extension patients are being treated by incompetent HSE staff.


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    #40
    Tasden
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,166 ✭✭✭Tasden


    steddyeddy wrote: »
    Bad move by the doctor but it's not about him alone. It's about the doctors who work close to 80 hour weeks and the the effect on patients. The real crime here is how doctors and by extension patients are being treated by incompetent HSE staff.

    For sure. And I fully support what he was trying to do. It may very well be for the greater good but it doesn't diminish the negative impact it's had on the man. I'm not saying he shouldn't have done what he did, I just don't agree with very specific details of his experience being made public without his consent.


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    #41
    asherbassad
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 1,869 ✭✭✭asherbassad


    steddyeddy wrote: »
    Whistle blower and excellent emergency medical doctor (by all accounts) has been involved in exposing the quality or lack of patient care in Tallaght hospital. He describes 90 year old patients being left left on trolleys for 24 hours and even a 101 year old patient who spent a night on a trolley. We should be thanking this guy for exposing the faults in our health care system. Doctors in this country, especially junior doctors get treated like crap for years on end for relatively little money. Doctors are also working unworkable hours in extremely high stress jobs. Barely a year goes by that we don't hear about the horrible working conditions doctors have to face.

    Should be hung for being unpatriotic.


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    #42
    asherbassad
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 1,869 ✭✭✭asherbassad


    steddyeddy wrote: »
    Bad move by the doctor but it's not about him alone. It's about the doctors who work close to 80 hour weeks and the the effect on patients. The real crime here is how doctors and by extension patients are being treated by incompetent HSE staff.

    How come Cuban and Iranian doctors are the most amazing in the world? Their countries are "sh1tholes" after all, are they not?

    What is it about Iraqi women that make them some of the worlds best surgeons?

    Their crappy local HSE?


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    #43
    Eugene Norman
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,191 ✭✭✭Eugene Norman


    Tasden wrote: »
    For sure. And I fully support what he was trying to do. It may very well be for the greater good but it doesn't diminish the negative impact it's had on the man. I'm not saying he shouldn't have done what he did, I just don't agree with very specific details of his experience being made public without his consent.

    The "negative impact" is bullrap spin. Rather than apologise for leaving a 91 year old on the table the propagandists have turned the table. I can't even see what this man would be upset for.


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    #44
    Canis Lupus
    Registered Users Posts: 9,893 ✭✭✭Canis Lupus


    NachoBusiness wrote: »
    Nobody cares for too long about these things.

    When Brendan Gleeson raised similar issues on TLLS everyone said it would lead to mass support but soon it was forgotten about.

    In 2012 this doctor raised issues about Ryanair's lack of medical suppplies on short-haul flights and again it was the talk of the airwaves for 10 mins and zilch was done in response. The following year this happened and earlier this year this incident occurred.

    Not saying any of these people would have lived if better medical equipment was on board short-hail flights, but they might have and that was the doctor's point at the time. Whistle blowers should be listened to for sure but it's really down to the public to support them as otherwise people very quickly move on.

    I'm still focused on Kony.


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    #45
    maneno
    Registered Users Posts: 233 ✭✭maneno


    Umenichekesha
    steddyeddy wrote: »
    Hapana mzungu!!

    Yea you're dead right though. The problem is that our doctors never get the chance to forget it. They're fighting a battle against incompetent management day in and day out. These aren't one off instance but happen regularly.


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    #46
    foggy_lad
    Closed Accounts Posts: 20,373 ✭✭✭✭foggy_lad


    It says a lot about our Minister for health that he couldn't be bothered visiting this elderly man to apologise in person for his treatment but decided to ring the man, this is where the whole idea of the man being upset about the coverage comes from! Leo Vradkar says that the man was upset about the media coverage of his case but I put it to Leo that the man was more upset about being left out in the hallway - for all the world to see and hear when doctors and nurses were talking to him and treating him - than he ever was about the doctor highlighting his case without actually naming him or his wife.


    As for the HSE response, the best we can expect is an inquiry and the hiring of a dozen more managers and civil servants to better cover up this and future scandals!


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    #47
    Seesee
    Registered Users Posts: 306 ✭✭Seesee


    Here's the latest!
    http://www.irishtimes.com/news/health/tallaght-hospital-boss-threatens-legal-action-over-a-e-inquiry-1.2435301

    What the hell?! This guy should be sacked. Of course the hospital should be put under pressure. Poor management and now they threaten to sue!


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    #48
    Hammer89
    Registered Users Posts: 3,003 ✭✭✭Hammer89


    Is this about a doctor who moonlights as a referee?


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