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Is ADHD just a label thats put on children.

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Comments

  • #102
    Noodleworm
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 717 ✭✭✭Noodleworm


    Really depressing to read the comments where everyone seems to think ADHD is just a label for badly behaved children.

    I was diagnosed with ADHD at 14, and I've was always a shy, incredibly well behaved child.
    As a kid I was diagnosed because of the discrepancy between the effort I was putting into my school work, and the results I was getting. I spent longer on homework than any other kid, yet by once I was approaching the junior cert mocks I was failing. So a learning disability was suspected.

    ADHD is about your brain struggling to focus, far worse than normal people.
    It's particularly noticeable with 'dull' tasks that are less mentally stimulating. Your brain goes crazy looking for anything more stimulating. Thats why the medication helps. Your brain gets dopamine as a reward when doing something stimulating. Medications like Ritalin and Concerta are dopamine reuptake inhibitors. Meaning the dopamine sticks around in your brain for longer even when doing "dull" tasks". Bringing you up to normal speed. I find it feels like having a really good cup of coffee first thing in the morning, it lifts the fog.

    With ADHD you feel like your attention span is both not focused enough, and not strong enough.
    I find it incredibly difficult to narrow by attention span at times. My friends how I can pick out details they can't. My attention can't screen out background noise. I'm often able to hear other peoples phones ring, even on vibrate before they can. I hear every conversation around me. I love reading but find it very difficult to read on the bus, because I can't tune out other peoples conversations.

    As an adult I still have it and still take medication.
    Its not as bad, but thats largely because I have more freedom in how and when I work. My job allows me to do my work in my own time, and do tasks in my own order. But when I attend conferences or long meetings that aren't particularly relevant to me I still feel like my whole body is itchy, and taking in what I'm listening to is more and more difficult as time goes on. I've never been a person who can work late because as my medication wears off I become less and less productive.

    Evidence has shown that 2/3 children diagnosed with ADHD will continue having symptoms into adulthood.
    ADHD has a massive correlation with poor life outcomes without any intervention. If you can't stick with school and get a good education, so many opportunities are cut off for you. The inability to focus leaves you feeling stupid and useless and low self esteem can really mess a kid up.


  • #103
    zcorpian88
    Registered Users Posts: 1,515 ✭✭✭zcorpian88


    Some kids genuinely have it but I think it's overly diagnosed in this country, any kids that's unruly in class or at home is immediately diagnosed with it, and these are the same parents that don't go out of their way to discipline their children.

    I remember many times a few years ago I was working in Dunnes and kids would pull hissyfits over not getting something in the shop and they'd start wrecking the place, breaking jars and bottles of stuff and I the poor sap on hygiene having to clean it all up. And the yuppie mother just standing there saying "Oisin, Oisin....stop that now"...wouldn't even raise her voice or grab the little f**ker.

    Suppose they just tagged him with the ADHD label then.

    I remember this very elderly shopkeeper too we had near us years ago, she was working until she was nearly 100.... and there was this discussion about ADHD going on in the shop. And she just says "Fancy name for bouldness, nothing a kick up the hole wouldn't sort"


  • #104
    Ipso
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,995 ✭✭✭Ipso


    zcorpian88 wrote: »
    Some kids genuinely have it but I think it's overly diagnosed in this country, any kids that's unruly in class or at home is immediately diagnosed with it, and these are the same parents that don't go out of their way to discipline their children.

    I remember many times a few years ago I was working in Dunnes and kids would pull hissyfits over not getting something in the shop and they'd start wrecking the place, breaking jars and bottles of stuff and I the poor sap on hygiene having to clean it all up. And the yuppie mother just standing there saying "Oisin, Oisin....stop that now"...wouldn't even raise her voice or grab the little f**ker.

    Suppose they just tagged him with the ADHD label then.

    I remember this very elderly shopkeeper too we had near us years ago, she was working until she was nearly 100.... and there was this discussion about ADHD going on in the shop. And she just says "Fancy name for bouldness, nothing a kick up the hole wouldn't sort"

    That generation really are people to be looked up to when discussing the welfare of children.


  • #105
    RDM_83 again
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,116 ✭✭✭RDM_83 again


    I see Laptops have been mentioned a few times, whats the reason for this being beneficial? an obvious reason doesn't leap out at me unlike dyslexia, also it seems like a weird thing to make a big deal about demanding for free considering a 2nd hand Chromebook or low-end Linux system that would be perfectly functional for wordprocessing can be sourced for the price of a new pair of Converse runners, or is there particular software involved.


  • #106
    Samuel T. Cogley
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 10,684 ✭✭✭✭Samuel T. Cogley


    TomSweeney wrote: »
    No it's not just a label - it exists, my wife works in the area.

    The amount of kids that are told they are stupid in school but just have an attention disorder that is easily treatable - it's such a shame, cos it affects them for life.

    As a newly diagnosed adult, in the incredibly lucky position of having a few quid to get diagnosed outside of the horrendous waiting times in ROI, the above can't be overstated.

    I'm not going into the effects undiagnosed ADHD has had on my life in AH but they have been chronic and extremely damaging.

    The drugs used are safe, have been used in the long term and extremely difficult to get put on and require frequent visits to a doctor. The effects of a misdiagnosis of ADHD are slightly better attention at extremely low doses - higher doses would make the situation worse. The effects of a misdiagnoses the other way can be a lifetime of misery and underachievement.

    People forget these drugs are a stimulant - they affect ADHD suffers differently to the rest of the population, they have the effect of slowing the thought processes down in ADHD suffers and allowing concentration.


  • #107
    Samuel T. Cogley
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 10,684 ✭✭✭✭Samuel T. Cogley


    Just also to point out the same stupid ill-informed nonsense has been levelled at; dyslexia, autism, and being left handed.


  • #108
    nice_guy80
    Closed Accounts Posts: 8,722 ✭✭✭nice_guy80


    corner of hells wrote: »
    nice_guy80 wrote: »
    its usually the parents who push for a diagnosis

    it absolves them of any blame.
    they can go on not parenting or putting manners on their child

    Load of bollox.
    ok

    teaching 10+ years and I've seen the label being used to justify all sorts of things


  • #109
    nice_guy80
    Closed Accounts Posts: 8,722 ✭✭✭nice_guy80


    TomSweeney wrote: »
    No it's not just a label - it exists, my wife works in the area.

    The amount of kids that are told they are stupid in school but just have an attention disorder that is easily treatable - it's such a shame, cos it affects them for life.
    really?

    what school or teacher calls children stupid nowadays?
    they'd get the sack


  • #110
    Ray Palmer
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,453 ✭✭✭Ray Palmer


    The bit I don't understand is what happened to children of the past who had it and got no special treatment?

    I believe it exists but it may get over used and there is always a spectrum.


  • #111
    byhookorbycrook
    Moderators, Education Moderators, Regional South East Moderators Posts: 12,505 Mod ✭✭✭✭byhookorbycrook


    Mountainsandh wrote: »
    On the topic of having to slap a label on children to get them help, well, you still kind of do byhookorbycrook, I'm afraid.

    My son needs a laptop in school, as recommended by HSE OT. But we have just been informed that he won't be getting it, because he has no diagnosis. He was assessed for dyspraxia, but OT decided it wasn't it really, and I agreed with her it isn't it, but there's something else and he is due to be assessed by ASD team. Parallel to that the educational psychologist also recommended help (and ASD assessment).

    We are waiting more than a year now for that final assessment, his work in school is suffering and he is anxious as a result, but hey, no diagnosis, no laptop.

    .
    Why was he recommended for a laptop? Sadly, the SENO takes a very narrow view of who will benefit from assistive technology, so it's not the fault of the school.

    Many professionals make recommendations, but don't realise that what they recommend is not actually allowed/available. I once had a child suggested to attend a school in Belfast - the child lived in Tipperary!!!


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  • #112
    mariaalice
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 12,618 ✭✭✭✭mariaalice


    byhookorbycrook wrote: »
    Why was he recommended for a laptop? Sadly, the SENO takes a very narrow view of who will benefit from assistive technology, so it's not the fault of the school.

    Many professionals make recommendations, but don't realise that what they recommend is not actually allowed/available. I once had a child suggested to attend a school in Belfast - the child lived in Tipperary!!!

    So do you think the distance to services or availability of resources should be mentioned in any assessment as just stating the child has been assessed as needing xy or z, knowing there is no or very little possibility that the resources would be available in the way stated in the assessment is a bit disingenuous and maybe a moral issue.


  • #113
    fly_agaric
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,973 ✭✭✭fly_agaric


    Ray Palmer wrote: »
    The bit I don't understand is what happened to children of the past who had it and got no special treatment?

    I believe it exists but it may get over used and there is always a spectrum.

    Speculating here, but with autism (don't know about ADHD, but autism seems be being dragged into things in the thread also), if they could not learn to communicate they probably would have been put into a mental institution of some sort.

    If they were communicating but having violent meltdowns etc + generally could not cope with life would have to think they would ended up in prison or an institution too.

    The kind of "mild" autism that people seem to (now) think some geniuses etc of the past had, imagine they lived pretty normal lives. Perhaps people around them just thought they were a bit of an "odd duck" without having a specific label for it...

    What happens now (even if there may be some overuse of labels and diagnoses etc [don't know if there is?]) is definitely better imo.


  • #114
    222233
    Registered Users Posts: 1,114 ✭✭✭222233


    I think that because we can't possibly define "normal", most people would appear somewhere on a spectrum, after all a diagnosis is just ticking off boxes really and finding people who don't fit the "normal criteria".

    If you look hard enough at any person you could find somewhere to place them on some scale whether its psychiatric, developmental, intellectual etc.. There are definitely people who suffer more profusely from attention deficits and it's important that they can access diagnosis to get the correct interventions but without looking at environmental factors diagnosis on symptoms alone is counter productive, as it doesn't address the behaviour that has led to a child presenting with "ADHD" symptoms if in fact that behaviour causing said symptoms is poor parenting or circumstances in the environment.

    It's also interesting though that many symptoms of *ADHD are similarly seen with bi-polar disorder, people don't really question if BPD is a real thing but then again it's not as widely diagnosed I guess.


  • #115
    Mountainsandh
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,700 ✭✭✭Mountainsandh


    RDM_83 again wrote: »
    I see Laptops have been mentioned a few times, whats the reason for this being beneficial? an obvious reason doesn't leap out at me unlike dyslexia, also it seems like a weird thing to make a big deal about demanding for free considering a 2nd hand Chromebook or low-end Linux system that would be perfectly functional for wordprocessing can be sourced for the price of a new pair of Converse runners, or is there particular software involved.

    Good for you you can afford a new pair of Converse runners just like that, please do not assume other people's budgets, plus not everyone has your knowledge of what is a passable laptop for a small budget.
    I have thought of getting him one myself, if I could identify and find something cheap, but I'm not sure he would be let bring it in school if it is not property of the school (theft, damage, etc...).
    byhookorbycrook wrote: »
    Why was he recommended for a laptop? Sadly, the SENO takes a very narrow view of who will benefit from assistive technology, so it's not the fault of the school.

    Many professionals make recommendations, but don't realise that what they recommend is not actually allowed/available. I once had a child suggested to attend a school in Belfast - the child lived in Tipperary!!!

    He was initially assessed for dyspraxia, as he showed a lot of the signs, however after assessment the OT said that he motor skills were not "bad enough" for dyspraxia, although she could clearly see the difficulties. In other words it seems to be more cognitive than motor/spatial.
    His writing is slow, hardly legible, and laboured in spite of many interventions to try and improve it, all sorts of special pens, slanted panels, etc... and a special intervention sort of "handwriting camp" (for a group of kids) at the OT for a few weeks. He can type 5 sentences in the time it takes him to write 1 or 2 legible ones.

    The OT recommended the assessment for ASD, and in the meantime the use of a laptop, so he doesn't get behind in school.
    I know that ASD and sensory issues can sometimes have an effect on children's mobility so I'm guessing that's more in that line. It really shouldn't be on me to try and analyze what's going on here, but the issue is obvious enough for the principal/his teacher to push for the laptop.

    Can I just say as a parent of a child undergoing assessments that it is a right dose, and I'd much much rather not have to worry about all that, laptop or no laptop, assessment waiting lists, forms to fill...

    The school rang alarm bells when he was 7 and I got cross with the teacher in question, I was in complete denial for a year.
    I had to just accept that maybe they were right finally, and start the whole rigmarolle of S&L, OT, and other visits, school meetings, pediatricians, assessments ...

    It's a dose, and in my case my child is not bold, not disruptive, school psychologist assessed him as "exceptional ability" so really, it's just a case of making sure that he is well in school, not miserable, that he doesn't become disruptive because of disengagement or mental health issues, and that he achieves reasonably well instead of being a brainy child who "could have done well" in other circumstances.

    They have to do longer assignments and projects now and guess what, he's starting to keep quiet about parts of the homework because he knows they're going to take him hours to complete, not because he has no idea, is not able, or is lazy, but because of the handwriting.


  • #116
    Cheerful Spring
    Closed Accounts Posts: 7,893 ✭✭✭Cheerful Spring


    SEPT 23 1989 wrote: »
    Just remember without these "abnormal" kids we would have no internet no art no engineering no science

    A very grey world without them

    It not conclusive as they lived a long time ago and different people will argue against it today. According to autism expert, Simon Baron-Cohen Albert Einstein and Isaac Newton may have had Asperger syndrome.

    https://www.newscientist.com/article/dn3676-einstein-and-newton-showed-signs-of-autism/

    http://www.autism-help.org/points-%20aspergers-einstein-newton.htm


  • #117
    kylith
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 17,736 ✭✭✭✭kylith


    Maddox Huge Dreamer wrote: »
    Too much sugar and E numbers, whatever you do don't give them Lucozade or RedBull unless they've actually got proper dengue fever.

    Nah, my nephew could be described as adhd and he gets none of that. What he actually has is a dire need to be brought to a big field and let run around the place to burn off some of the energy.


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