Breaky Bitcoin Blues

Moonjet · 20-11-2018 4:53pm

Deleted User wrote: »

You think you sound smart but you don't. Someone being sure that bitcoin won't worth anything in a decade is very different to shorting an extremely volatile asset where you could get squeezed.

You don't have to short it, like I said there's futures markets to profit from if you're that confident it will be X price on Y date.

Shanotheslayer · 20-11-2018 5:08pm

Deleted User wrote: »

You think you sound smart but you don't. Someone being sure that bitcoin won't worth anything in a decade is very different to shorting an extremely volatile asset where you could get squeezed.

We get that you're a fanboy. No need to act like a pathetic one while you're at it.

He's not trying to sound smart, he's basically telling the poster to put his money where his mouth is if he's so confident.

If he's so certain that X is going to happen why not put money on it if it's so easy? The fact is, it's not.

20-11-2018 5:41pm

Shanotheslayer wrote: »

He's not trying to sound smart, he's basically telling the poster to put his money where his mouth is if he's so confident.

If he's so certain that X is going to happen why not put money on it if it's so easy? The fact is, it's not.

He told him to short it. Shorting requires a date. An extremely volatile asset like Bitcoin is hard to short because while there can be a trend downwards, the mad ups and downs means you could get ruined because it spikes up the day your short expires.

That doesn't change the fact that he believes it will go down. He'd short it if it was a straight line down, but it's not.

grindle · 20-11-2018 5:43pm

Deleted User wrote: »

He told him to short it. Shorting requires a date. An extremely volatile asset like Bitcoin is hard to short because while there can be a trend downwards, the mad ups and downs means you could get ruined because it spikes up the day your short expires.

That doesn't change the fact that he believes it will go down. He'd short it if it was a straight line down, but it's not.

If you can't be bothered reading posts properly why bother replying?

Moonjet wrote: »

Or futures if you want to play the long game.

seamus · 20-11-2018 5:52pm

Moonjet wrote: »

If you're so sure, why don't you short it on margin and make a huge profit from your knowledge? Or futures if you want to play the long game.

Because I've no idea how to do that.

Also I dont have spare money to throw away for a decade

20-11-2018 5:53pm

grindle wrote: »

If you can't be bothered reading posts properly why bother replying?

I replied to someone else?

grindle · 20-11-2018 6:31pm

Deleted User wrote: »

I replied to someone else?

Oof. Nabbed.

Option of futures still stands either way and I see he's not confident enough to even place any amount of a bet on it. I'm not a bitcoin bull by any stretch but there are millions who are at this stage. Thinking it's trending to zero based on nothing and with no mention of what would replace it? Odd.

20-11-2018 6:36pm

grindle wrote: »

Oof. Nabbed.
Option of futures still stands either way and I see he's not confident enough to even place any amount of a bet on it. I'm not a bitcoin bull by any stretch but there are millions who are at this stage. Thinking it's trending to zero based on nothing and with no mention of what would replace it? Odd.

Ah..why does it need to be replaced?..apart from lads like yourself that might have to take up a hobby or something to amuse yourselves, what exactly does it do in the world?

Ahorseofaman · 20-11-2018 6:42pm

grindle wrote: »

Oof. Nabbed.
no mention of what would replace it? Odd.

Replace what?It's just fantasy numbers on a computer screen.Maybe I'm slow but no one was ever explain to me in a way that made any sense the value in made up currencies.

Spleerbun · 20-11-2018 7:07pm

I'm not going to do it (obviously), but can anyone explain for dummies how one would "short" something? How exactly does it work?

paw patrol · 20-11-2018 7:13pm

i'm lobbing on as much as I can.
buy when it is in the sh1t, vulture fund style.

tbh I'm litecoin , not a bitcoin.

average hero · 20-11-2018 7:14pm

I have made a good bit of profit from Bitcoin (well, millibits really) but nothing too much. Enough to buy a small second-hand car. I have a good few millibits leftover so I just use it for gambling with on sportsbetting websites as I have mentioned before.

Is this the end for Bitcoin BTC? I am not so sure. I do think it will lose a lot of value or it's current price but I can see it shoot upwards before the next financial crash, which I believe is imminent (less than 18 months) away.

Moonjet · 20-11-2018 7:28pm

seamus wrote: »

Because I've no idea how to do that.

Also I dont have spare money to throw away for a decade

So you don't vunderstand even the basic concepts of bitcoin trading yet you're confident the price will hit zero within the next 6-7 years?
I never trust people who say they can predict markets with any degree of accuracy, especially ones as volatile as cryptocurrency.

20-11-2018 9:29pm

grindle wrote: »

If the spread is good you can solidify a hefty fiat loss to use against any possible gains. Would recommend doing this.

Down about 75% on original investment I don’t see the point in selling now. Might as well hold on and see what happenes. Worst case scenario as you say I sell when they are worth nothing at all and have a nice tax offset for profits on other investments.

Ipso · 20-11-2018 9:38pm

Spleerbun wrote: »

I'm not going to do it (obviously), but can anyone explain for dummies how one would "short" something? How exactly does it work?

You are basically betting the price will drop, usually you buy low and sell high. But with a short you sell high first, by "borrowing" stock from a broker which they charge you interest for.
Then you have to Cover the sale by buying the stock back to return to the broker. When buying it back you are hoping the price will be lower.

Feisar · 20-11-2018 11:49pm

as above, buy low, sell high. Where do you buy bitcoins?

bri007 · 20-11-2018 11:51pm

GDAX or coinbase but the coinbase are expensive.

Jesus it’s currently like a bloodbath in crypto

Feisar wrote: »

as above, buy low, sell high. Where do you buy bitcoins?

bri007 · 20-11-2018 11:53pm

Bitcoin down over €14,500 from this time last year madness!

20-11-2018 11:56pm

Good time to lower your average price per coin..

JohnnyFlash · 20-11-2018 11:58pm

[Deleted User] wrote: »

Good time to lower your average price per coin..

The fundamentals are strong, and institutional money is waiting in the sidelines to enter the market. This is a correction orchestrated by whales to shake weak hands out of the market. HODL and don’t be a wagecuck all your life.

StolenKrone · 21-11-2018 12:27am

Keep selling, I'm buying!

Arrival · 21-11-2018 12:33am

ITT people who don't even understand cryptocurrencies talking about them as if they're experts. Everyone has an opinion when money is involved of course. You'll all go silent whenever it does happen to recover and then come back out with your "ha! told you so" retort again when it inevitably goes through yet another dip or crash. Bitcoin could go to zero, it could go to $1MM. This is all cyclical and nobody knows when or if the whole thing will permanently crash, so shut the **** up talking as if you know the future.

To the people who bought in and are panic selling now at a huge loss; you're idiots. You should never have put in more than you can afford to lose, if anything you should be in a position to buy more during a time like this.

Ipso · 21-11-2018 12:36am

bri007 wrote: »

Bitcoin down over €14,500 from this time last year madness!

Value to be had, fill yer boots, smart and ballsy, bitcoin comes to South Dublin etc

Capt'n Midnight · 21-11-2018 12:37am

Alun wrote: »

Anyone want to buy any tulip bulbs? I hear they're the next "big thing".

The tragedy of the tulips was that the exquisite colouration of the most valuable bulbs was caused by a virus and wasn't inheritable.

So they were intrinsically worthless.

Stark · 21-11-2018 12:37am

So will John McAfee go through with eating his own dick do people think?

Capt'n Midnight · 21-11-2018 12:38am

https://www.bbc.com/news/technology-46263998

Bitcoin Cash split off from Bitcoin last year after a dispute about its direction and split again a few days ago in another so-called hard fork.

Its value has dropped by almost 50% over the last week. It's confusing but think of the People's Front of Judea versus the Judean People's Front and you will get the picture.

JohnnyFlash · 21-11-2018 12:39am

Arrival wrote: »

ITT people who don't even understand cryptocurrencies talking about them as if they're experts. Everyone has an opinion when money is involved of course. You'll all go silent whenever it does happen to recover and then come back out with your "ha! told you so" retort again when it inevitably goes through yet another dip or crash. Bitcoin could go to zero, it could go to $1MM. This is all cyclical and nobody knows when or if the whole thing will permanently crash, so shut the **** up talking as if you know the future.

SEC investigations into ICOs and Tether. Centralised mining. The ecological impact of mining. The scams, the manipulation, the lack of liquidity, the shady characters involved. It’s a complete mess, and it takes about 10 minutes of research to come to the same conclusion. Pretty much the only people predicting a future for it are bag holders. All the smart money is leaving the system. Magic bean coins aren’t a sound investment.

Arrival · 21-11-2018 12:45am

JohnnyFlash wrote: »

SEC investigations into ICOs and Tether. Centralised mining. The ecological impact of mining. The scams, the manipulation, the lack of liquidity, the shady characters involved. It’s a complete mess, and it takes about 10 minutes of research to come to the same conclusion. Pretty much the only people predicting a future for it are bag holders. All the smart money is leaving the system. Magic bean coins aren’t a sound investment.

Aha, sure. All that yet there has never been more activity in the development side of things with companies like Ethereum and Omisego, you know, the stuff that's actually important for technology companies? Building a working, useful product. Disregard the value of the tokens and actually look at the companies behind each and what their goals are and how they're working towards achieving them instead of all that ****e you copy and pasted from some old man's FUD article. You're definitely the type of person who would shout "bUt wHaT dO tHeY dO? wHy iSnT iT uSeD eVeRyWhErE yEt?" even though some of the most skilled and intelligent developers in the world are employed in this industry and working away to actually follow through. As with all new technologies, it takes decades to actually become widely adopted.

Pintman Paddy Losty · 21-11-2018 12:55am

Arrival wrote: »

Aha, sure. All that yet there has never been more activity in the development side of things with companies like Ethereum and Omisego, you know, the stuff that's actually important for technology companies? Building a working, useful product. Disregard the value of the tokens and actually look at the companies behind each and what their goals are and how they're working towards achieving them instead of all that ****e you copy and pasted from some old man's FUD article. You're definitely the type of person who would shout "bUt wHaT dO tHeY dO? wHy iSnT iT uSeD eVeRyWhErE yEt?" even though some of the most skilled and intelligent developers in the world are employed in this industry and working away to actually follow through. As with all new technologies, it takes decades to actually become widely adopted.

Spoken like a true believer.

Wake up and smell the coffee sunshine. Bitcoin has been around for around the same length of time as smartphones. Its not brand new tech.

It's a ****ty database that's a ecological catastrophe.

JohnnyFlash · 21-11-2018 12:59am

Arrival wrote: »

Aha, sure. All that yet there has never been more activity in the development side of things with companies like Ethereum and Omisego, you know, the stuff that's actually important for technology companies? Building a working, useful product. Disregard the value of the tokens and actually look at the companies behind each and what their goals are and how they're working towards achieving them instead of all that ****e you copy and pasted from some old man's FUD article. You're definitely the type of person who would shout "bUt wHaT dO tHeY dO? wHy iSnT iT uSeD eVeRyWhErE yEt?" even though some of the most skilled and intelligent developers in the world are employed in this industry and working away to actually follow through. As with all new technologies, it takes decades to actually become widely adopted.

Ethereum is about as much use a chocolate teapot, amigo. It doesn’t scale, and any dapps built on it have no users. It’s only uses are as a way of launching scam coins, and allowing people to gamble wildly on its price while calling themselves investors.

Blockchain is a really slow and inefficient database. It has a small handful of niche uses, and most of them will be private blockchains. You certainly won’t find companies decide to build a new business model or process on some cryptocurrency coin that was probably created by some scam artist.

Arrival · 21-11-2018 1:06am

JohnnyFlash wrote: »

Ethereum is about as much use a chocolate teapot, amigo. It doesn’t scale, and any dapps built on it have no users. It’s only uses are as a way of launching scam coins, and allowing people to gamble wildly on its price while calling themselves investors.

Blockchain is a really slow and inefficient database. It has a small handful of niche uses, and most of them will be private blockchains. You certainly won’t find companies decide to build a new business model or process on some cryptocurrency coin that was probably created by some scam artist.

Lol! Says it all really

gctest50 · 21-11-2018 1:10am

JohnnyFlash wrote: »

Ethereum is about as much use a chocolate teapot, amigo. It doesn’t scale, and any dapps built on it have no users. It’s only uses are as a way of launching scam coins, and allowing people to gamble wildly on its price while calling themselves investors. .............

and this :

Researchers from RWTH Aachen University and Goethe University identified 1,600 files added to the Bitcoin blockchain, 59 of which include links to unlawful images of child exploitation

Would explain a few of the fanboys who seem almost rabid compared to the others

JustAYoungLad · 21-11-2018 1:13am

I made 19k from ethereum in 2017. Bought 400 eu worth of it early in the year and sold when it was 380 a piece.

My only regret is not buying more and not holding when it was 1k a piece

JohnnyFlash · 21-11-2018 1:15am

gctest50 wrote: »

and this :

Researchers from RWTH Aachen University and Goethe University identified 1,600 files added to the Bitcoin blockchain, 59 of which include links to unlawful images of child exploitation

Would explain a few of the fanboys who seem almost rabid compared to the others

Probably a different argument, but Buterin, the messiah of ethereum once posted this on Twitter.

The Oort Cloud · 21-11-2018 1:19am

This is great news. ADA Cardano down to nearly 4 cent, I have a lot of ADA so I was hoping the price would drop dramatically again so I can buy some more. The only time I used bitcoin was to be able to buy ADA Cardano. The thought of almost all coins tethered to Sh*tcoin and its huge drops is a put-off. I never liked bitcoin, it has no real value.

The beauty of all of this is that I never put real fiat money into cryptocurrency, I started off with free stellar lumens and brought the lumens up to 4,500 lumens and then made money selling high and buying low on the big dippers. Will wait till ADA hits 3 cent and will buy a load of them again and pop them in the long-term Daedalus wallet for the future.

Atoms for Peace · 21-11-2018 1:23am

JohnnyFlash wrote: »

Probably a different argument, but Buterin, the messiah of ethereum once posted this on Twitter.

A lot of those tech heads seem to have a very individualistic and calous outlook to life.

JustAYoungLad · 21-11-2018 1:26am

Atoms for Peace wrote: »

A lot of those tech heads seem to have a very individualistic and calous outlook to life.

I know the types. Admirable but really anti social. Just the way their brain works.

21-11-2018 1:26am

JohnnyFlash wrote: »

Blockchain is a really slow and inefficient database. It has a small handful of niche uses, and most of them will be private blockchains. You certainly won’t find companies decide to build a new business model or process on some cryptocurrency coin that was probably created by some scam artist.

Clueless...

Blockchain is big deal and lot of major companies are starting to implement it.

Laois_Man · 21-11-2018 2:25am

Some big companies are investing in Blockchain but the vast majority of it is still of a very exploratory, proof of concept nature. As it's a highly disruptive technology, it involves extremely expensive transformation from batch based legacy systems and very few if anybody if gonna take that leap yet - besides, switching would take years for any large corporation.

Most who are using it are confining it to the launch of new offerings and even then, they typically also have some version of the legacy processes running in parallel with it.

There's still a hell of a lot of problems.

- It's not very green,

- by their nature, Blockchains result in a lot of data replication

- transactions can take a while to get onto the Blockchain,

- there's plenty of crooks trying to tap into the funding,

- more crocks like Ransomware attackers typically using cryptocurrencies as their instrument of payment,

- regulation (but that's not really a new problem),

- taxation

- Etherium's impending ice age and the new PoS network being deployed next year is already delayed

- and above all, the scalability of it is the biggest problem. Bitcoins throughput is something like 5 transactions per second. Visa does about 25,000 per second. That's not feasible. Something like BigchainDB, Braiding, Blockweave technologies etc will eventually solve it. But it ain't solved yet.

JustAYoungLad · 21-11-2018 8:42am

Laois_Man wrote: »

Some big companies are investing in Blockchain but the vast majority of it is still of a very exploratory, proof of concept nature. As it's a highly disruptive technology, it involves extremely expensive transformation from batch based legacy systems and very few if anybody if gonna take that leap yet - besides, switching would take years for any large corporation.

Most who are using it are confining it to the launch of new offerings and even then, they typically also have some version of the legacy processes running in parallel with it.

There's still a hell of a lot of problems.

- It's not very green,

- by their nature, Blockchains result in a lot of data replication

- transactions can take a while to get onto the Blockchain,

- there's plenty of crooks trying to tap into the funding,

- more crocks like Ransomware attackers typically using cryptocurrencies as their instrument of payment,

- regulation (but that's not really a new problem),

- taxation

- Etherium's impending ice age and the new PoS network being deployed next year is already delayed

- and above all, the scalability of it is the biggest problem. Bitcoins throughput is something like 5 transactions per second. Visa does about 25,000 per second. That's not feasible. Something like BigchainDB, Braiding, Blockweave technologies etc will eventually solve it. But it ain't solved yet.

Imagine thinking not having to pay taxes is a bad thing.

Man statists really need to go

JohnnyFlash · 21-11-2018 9:04am

JustAYoungLad wrote: »

Imagine thinking not having to pay taxes is a bad thing.

Man statists really need to go

Statists? Haha. I’ve this image of some spotty student going on about Ayn Rand and Libertarianism, and how the free market decides everything.

JustAYoungLad · 21-11-2018 9:06am

JohnnyFlash wrote: »

Statists? Haha. I’ve this image of some spotty student going on about Ayn Rand and Libertarianism, and how the free market decides everything.

No. Ayn Rand is as bad of a philosopher as she is a writer.

You like paying taxes? You might feel indebted to society but be honest.

Unless you genuinely do then you might be a masochist

seamus · 21-11-2018 9:31am

JustAYoungLad wrote: »

You like paying taxes? You might feel indebted to society but be honest.

That's a different thing though. Nobody likes paying taxes, but people recognise that in the absence of taxation, society will collapse into an anarcho-capitalist mess.

In terms of the good of society and the future of humanity, a currency that's immune to taxation is not a good thing.

Elessar · 21-11-2018 10:11am

I love this thread. “Bitcoin will go to 0”, get out now etc. Bitcoin has been hailed as dead 317 times as of this post.

https://99bitcoins.com/bitcoinobituaries/

Every time bitcoin has corrected, it has gone on to new highs. It is still €4K higher in price than it was at the start of last year. Everywhere you look there is bullish news. Fidelity investments are opening a crypto operation. The owner of the NYSE is opening bitcoin operations and custody service. Morgan Stanley, Citigroup and Goldman Sachs are about to offer bitcoin trading to clients. Morgan Stanley recently officially classed bitcoin has a new institutional investment class. The SEC in the US are expected to approve the first bitcoin ETF in February. The list goes on.

When hedge fund managers and pension funds can easily add even a tiny portion of bitcoin to their investments, only one thing will happen to the price. Will bitcoin die? Probably, someday. But I’m willing to bet that it will break records many more times before that happens. Crypto is here to stay.

JustAYoungLad · 21-11-2018 1:09pm

seamus wrote: »

That's a different thing though. Nobody likes paying taxes, but people recognise that in the absence of taxation, society will collapse into an anarcho-capitalist mess.

In terms of the good of society and the future of humanity, a currency that's immune to taxation is not a good thing.

‘Taxation is good for humanity’

Mate this is the mindset of slaves

seamus · 21-11-2018 1:15pm

I guess I'm just not as "woke" as you. Look at you there, making money doing nothing but investing and saving it all up for yourself. A real paragon of freedom.

So woke.

(In case you didn't get that sarcasm, anyone who believes that the accumulation of personal wealth is important, is a slave as far as I'm concerned).

JustAYoungLad · 21-11-2018 1:31pm

seamus wrote: »

I guess I'm just not as "woke" as you. Look at you there, making money doing nothing but investing and saving it all up for yourself. A real paragon of freedom.

So woke.

(In case you didn't get that sarcasm, anyone who believes that the accumulation of personal wealth is important, is a slave as far as I'm concerned).

You’re projecting. I can donate money to causes if i wanted to. Do i wanna pay for methadone clinics, social welfare and whatever else doesnt benefit me? Do you?

Mate you’re a slave. You’re so far deep into the slave mindset that you cant fathom a world where a person keeps whats theirs.

You’ve been living in a world full of economic scarcity where people fight for scraps that you dont see humanity having the ability to not be forcibly taken off their property and wealth.

Truly an NPC

‘PLEASE TAX ME’

Laois_Man · 21-11-2018 1:44pm

JustAYoungLad wrote: »

You’re projecting. I can donate money to causes if i wanted to. Do i wanna pay for methadone clinics, social welfare and whatever else doesnt benefit me? Do you?

Mate you’re a slave. You’re so far deep into the slave mindset that you cant fathom a world where a person keeps whats theirs.

You’ve been living in a world full of economic scarcity where people fight for scraps that you dont see humanity having the ability to not be forcibly taken off their property and wealth.

Truly an NPC

‘PLEASE TAX ME’

Good luck with building your roads, paying for your kids teachers, firemen, ambulance drivers, cops, prison officers, hospital nurses, running costs, water services etc etc etc yourself!

elefant · 21-11-2018 1:45pm

JustAYoungLad wrote: »

Do i wanna pay for methadone clinics, social welfare and whatever else doesnt benefit me? Do you?

Well, I certainly do.

You'd want to have a pretty warped idea of society if you think most people don't like paying taxes towards anything that doesn't directly benefit themselves.

JustAYoungLad · 21-11-2018 1:46pm

Laois_Man wrote: »

Good luck with building your roads, paying for your kids teachers, firemen, ambulance drivers, cops, prison officers, hospital nurses, running costs, water services etc etc etc yourself!

Loooooool m8 just wait for the crypto-ancap state to be realized. There’ll be no place for statists and federalists.

Breaky Bitcoin Blues

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