Lockdown for Kildare (Aug 8th-31st)

DeanAustin · 08-08-2020 1:47pm

[Deleted User] wrote: »

Do you believe any of them are effective without a complete redesign of the slaughterhouses and processes.

Honestly, I’ve no idea. I know nothing about the industry and I know little about this virus. But painting owners as pantomime villains who have completely disregarded public health to line their own pockets seems a bit simplistic.

Wanderer2010 · 08-08-2020 1:47pm

DeanAustin wrote: »

By all accounts, there have been extensive measures implemented in meat factories. Stop polluting the discussion with supposition and hyperbole.

Meat factories are a genuine source of these new clusters, and they consist of in many cases foreign workers who are working very closely next to each other, thats even been said by people who work there, that 100% social distancing just isnt possible, given the nature of the work that goes on there.

I find it very surprising that the owners can get away with simply doing "a deep clean", which is a fuzzy description anyway, and then open as usual the next morning. They clearly couldnt give a fcuk about public health as long as the meat is rolling out the door, and since I have yet to see any teeth from the HSE and these agencies that threaten "severe sanctions" on businesses who flout the guidelines, i dont blame them for not caring.

ChikiChiki · 08-08-2020 1:48pm

Sesshoumaru wrote: »

Then I'm sure as all resources are being thrown at this, the area of lock down will be quickly refined down over the course of the next few days? No? Didn't think so. IMO my point still stands, no intelligence to this plan.

We're like a cancer patient still getting chemotherapy when the cancer is localised and can be cut out with a scalpel. The mistake here is having an arbitrary larger lock down area with weak enforcement. We should be smart and surgical about this with maximum enforcement.

It may well be refined. We don't know. This is the first local lockdown that's had to be imposed and we'll learn from it.

It's not a simple solution and evidently a lot of people will be pissed off no matter what decision is taken.

Sesshoumaru · 08-08-2020 1:48pm

DeanAustin wrote: »

It’s not stupidity. You may not agree with it and there may be other options but there is a logic to it.

We don’t have the following data to hand:

1. Where do the infected people live?
2. Where do the people they have been in contact with live?

I also have never tried managing populations before. So you’ve got to consider the above two points and also make this easy to understand for the general population.

You have a decent argument but dismissing the current lockdown as “stupidity” just undermines that argument.

I expect better from our government. Some personal information about me - my other half is from Hong Kong, so I was being personally lectured on this and getting information way before any lock down in this country on how Hong Kong has been handling it. All I'm saying is, there is no vaccine currently and even the people behind the most promising vaccine candidates say there is a possibility we may never have an effective vaccine. So we need to learn to be smarter and faster about this.

If we did take county borders as the starting point, then we have to move faster with contact tracing and be a bit more intelligent and dynamic about where the lock downs actually occur. But all I see from our government is a well intentioned monolithic approach. We could be dealing with this for years, we need to be better. That is all I want to see.

Cilldara_2000 · 08-08-2020 1:48pm

DeanAustin wrote: »

By all accounts, there have been extensive measures implemented in meat factories. Stop polluting the discussion with supposition and hyperbole.

Whose accounts? Where?

At the least all these clusters in meat factories since the start of the pandemic right up to yesterday's indicate that whatever measures have been taken were inadequate.

We also have these accounts, granted almost three months old by now, that there were no measures and staff had to pay for their own PPE: https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2020/may/14/everyones-on-top-of-you-sneezing-and-coughing-life-inside-irelands-meat-plants-covid-19

08-08-2020 1:49pm

DeanAustin wrote: »

Honestly, I’ve no idea. I know nothing about the industry and I know little about this virus. But painting owners as pantomime villains who have completely disregarded public health to line their own pockets seems a bit simplistic.

You are naive. It isn't just a problem with slaughterhouses in Ireland but elsewhere too. The German meat processors were just as feckless and hotspots are around their factories.

LuasSimon · 08-08-2020 1:49pm

The problem is the minimum wage sweat shops in Ireland’s meat factories but rather than just close them until they conform the government protect Larry Goodman and other backers by closing three counties of Kildare , laois and Offaly instead .

normanoffside · 08-08-2020 1:50pm

John O.Groats · 08-08-2020 1:50pm

Agent Smith wrote: »

Is that a photo of a 1940`s concentration camp? if it is it`s absolutely disgraceful that you should even try to make a comparison between that and the situation in the midland counties. You should hang your head in shame.

Darc19 · 08-08-2020 1:51pm

DellyBelly wrote: »

I've seen the name Larry Goodman mentioned by a few people. Don't know him but see he involved in the meat business. By reading what people are saying here he comes across as a particularly nasty individual. Looks like he'd sell his grandmother if he thought he'd make money out of the deal.

Funny thing is that he has nothing to do with any of the facilities that have caused this lock down.

But some people get their views from rag tabloids and mimic fools such as Paul Murphy and his type and anyone earning decent money is not tolerated despite Murphy coming from a well off background and fee paying education.

Goodman is a big operation. His company makes about 2%-3% net profit.

Compare that to the profits of Apple, or penny's, or tk maxx and its miniscule, but because his operation is huge, it's a large amount in physical cash.

Still miniscule in comparison to some others.

Graham · 08-08-2020 1:53pm

Darc19 wrote: »

Funny thing is that he has nothing to do with any of the facilities that have caused this lock down.

The rules clearly state anything and everything has to be the fault of at least one of; Larry Goodman, Dennis O'Brien, Bill Gates or George Soros

:pac:

GooglePlus · 08-08-2020 1:53pm

John O.Groats wrote: »

Is that a photo of a 1940`s concentration camp? if it is it`s absolutely disgraceful that you should even try to make a comparison between that and the situation in the midland counties.

Ah don't be so sensitive, if you don't find it funny just refrain from laughing.

Graham · 08-08-2020 1:55pm

Zebra3 wrote: »

County lines allow no buffer for people in unaffected areas like Maynooth, Celbridge and Leixlip from Timahoe.

Why are people in those towns with no problems being left exposed to people from where the outbreak is?

They're not. There are restrictions (hence the thread).

Sesshoumaru · 08-08-2020 1:55pm

John O.Groats wrote: »

Is that a photo of a 1940`s concentration camp? if it is it`s absolutely disgraceful that you should even try to make a comparison between that and the situation in the midland counties. You should hang your head in shame.

I'm pretty sure those are actors.

MadYaker · 08-08-2020 1:56pm

What’ll they do if this lockdown doesn’t work?

DeanAustin · 08-08-2020 1:57pm

Cilldara_2000 wrote: »

Whose accounts? Where?

At the least all these clusters in meat factories since the start of the pandemic right up to yesterday's indicate that whatever measures have been taken were inadequate.

We also have these accounts, granted almost three months old by now, that there were no measures and staff had to pay for their own PPE: https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2020/may/14/everyones-on-top-of-you-sneezing-and-coughing-life-inside-irelands-meat-plants-covid-19

It’s been recommended by the government (https://www.hpsc.ie/a-z/respiratory/coronavirus/novelcoronavirus/guidance/employersemployeesguidance/Interim%20Guidance%20COVID-19%20Meat%20Factories.pdf) that, for example, screens be erected between employees and people on here have confirmed that happened in some or all of the plants.

It seems that the measures weren’t effective and I’m not arguing that point. It’s the cartoonish supervillain portrayal of the owners that I think is unhelpful.

08-08-2020 1:57pm

Darc19 wrote: »

Goodman is a big operation. His company makes about 2%-3% net profit.

...and yet he has a net worth of about 2.5 billion. You should learn that many companies decide via various legal means how much profit they declare and their corporation tax payments are based on their declared profit.

Bojill · 08-08-2020 1:58pm

hmmm wrote: »

What are they looking for - parishes?

Counties make sense. Everyone knows what a county is and where the border is.

This is about risk reduction, not perfectly targeting exactly where the virus is.

Enfield in Meath is 12km from one of these clusters.No lockdown
Maynooth is 20km away. In lockdown.
I'd say by most peoples probabilities, enfield for example is in bigger danger.

Agent Smith · 08-08-2020 1:58pm

John O.Groats wrote: »

Is that a photo of a 1940`s concentration camp? if it is it`s absolutely disgraceful that you should even try to make a comparison between that and the situation in the midland counties. You should hang your head in shame.

It's been removed. it was from a film.

DeanAustin · 08-08-2020 2:02pm

Darc19 wrote: »

Funny thing is that he has nothing to do with any of the facilities that have caused this lock down.

But some people get their views from rag tabloids and mimic fools such as Paul Murphy and his type and anyone earning decent money is not tolerated despite Murphy coming from a well off background and fee paying education.

Goodman is a big operation. His company makes about 2%-3% net profit.

Compare that to the profits of Apple, or penny's, or tk maxx and its miniscule, but because his operation is huge, it's a large amount in physical cash.

Still miniscule in comparison to some others.

Is that true that Goodman hasn’t been linked? Jesus wept. Seen his name peddled around here as if he was shipping COVID ridden Eastern Europeans in from Texas to work for a handful of rice a day, chained to their work station and co-workers under perpetual threat of 20 lashes if they didn’t all while he twiddled his moustache and counted his €100 notes.

The debate on social media is poisonous.

08-08-2020 2:03pm

move along. nothing to see here. there is not and has never been an incestuous relationship between the Meat Processors and Government.

Graham · 08-08-2020 2:06pm

Deleted User wrote: »

move along. nothing to see here. there is not and has never been an incestuous relationship between the Meat Processors and Government.

Graham wrote: »

The rules clearly state anything and everything has to be the fault of at least one of; Larry Goodman, Dennis O'Brien, Bill Gates or George Soros

And Haughey, apologies I almost forgot

:rolleyes:

Humberto Salazar · 08-08-2020 2:09pm

[Deleted User] wrote: »

If you look at the border between Offaly and WestMeath it runs down the middle of the road in places.

It runs through the bar in Horseleap.

08-08-2020 2:11pm

Graham wrote: »

And Haughey, apologies I almost forgot

:rolleyes:

You'd excuse anything it appears.

highdef · 08-08-2020 2:13pm

Mantis Toboggan wrote: »

Absolute bollix, 48% of the cases are in Dublin, why aren't they locked down??

As a percentage of population, the amout of cases in Kildare, Laois and Offaly is massive compared to Dublin and its population.

caveat emptor · 08-08-2020 2:16pm

What role do supermarkets have in setting the price.
I'm just thinking Germany had a similar issue with the processors.
They have same supermarkets. Lidl and Aldi like.

Who bares more responsibility for this drive to the bottom?

I know the dairy farmers are broken by the supermarkets.

Graham · 08-08-2020 2:16pm

Deleted User wrote: »

You'd excuse anything it appears.

Excuse what exactly.

Some connection you're come up with between Haughey, Coronavirus and an unrelated meat processor?

Sconsey · 08-08-2020 2:17pm

Humberto Salazar wrote: »

It runs through the bar in Horseleap.

You know in a perfect world, with time for lots of planning, the authorities could consult geographical information systems, modeling, etc to map out a perfect lockdown zone. But they don't have time for that, they have to react quickly so the solution will not be perfect.

There will always be a few anomalies when reacting on the fly. Better this than complete inaction while a committee is setup to arrange public consultations and various proposals are mulled over for a few months.

Patrick2010 · 08-08-2020 2:26pm

Saw Garda tweeting about their checkpoint in Tullamore, are people not allowed to travel around their county now?

Rock77 · 08-08-2020 2:29pm

DeanAustin wrote: »

Is that true that Goodman hasn’t been linked? Jesus wept. Seen his name peddled around here as if he was shipping COVID ridden Eastern Europeans in from Texas to work for a handful of rice a day, chained to their work station and co-workers under perpetual threat of 20 lashes if they didn’t all while he twiddled his moustache and counted his €100 notes.

The debate on social media is poisonous.

Didn’t take you long to add your own hyperbole. It’s easy to get sucked in isn’t it!

08-08-2020 2:30pm

Graham wrote: »

Excuse what exactly.

Some connection you're come up with between Haughey, Coronavirus and an unrelated meat processor?

Yeah, Larry Goodman's company willingly voluntarily improved conditions and didn't endanger workers.

https://louthnow.ie/2020/03/25/abp-respond-to-80-worker-walkout-over-covid-19-fears/

https://www.shropshirestar.com/news/health/coronavirus-covid19/2020/06/26/covid-19-cases-confirmed-at-county-meat-firm/

Graham · 08-08-2020 2:33pm

Kildare Laois Offally != Louth

facehugger99 · 08-08-2020 2:34pm

MadYaker wrote: »

What’ll they do if this lockdown doesn’t work?

More lockdown.

Gruffalux · 08-08-2020 2:34pm

caveat emptor wrote: »

Who bares more responsibility for this drive to the bottom?

.

This is hard to bare. Happens far too often and makes me want to bear my soul. Bare with me now, well...unless you bearly care!

In this once off I forgive you caveat emptor, as the bottom at the end of the sentence obviously distracted you.

DeanAustin · 08-08-2020 2:35pm

Rock77 wrote: »

Didn’t take you long to add your own hyperbole. It’s easy to get sucked in isn’t it!

Bit of a difference between passing nonsense off as fact and exaggerating for effect.

08-08-2020 2:36pm

https://www.irishnews.com/news/northernirelandnews/2020/04/11/news/legal-action-threatened-over-covid-19-meat-factory-concerns-1898241/

Zebra3 · 08-08-2020 2:37pm

Graham wrote: »

They're not. There are restrictions (hence the thread).

There are no restrictions preventing people from infected areas of Kildare travelling to non-infected areas of Kildare.

Well done to all those who are responsible for public health, but refuse to protect the health of the public while proclaiming to do so.

Rock77 · 08-08-2020 2:39pm

DeanAustin wrote: »

Bit of a difference between passing nonsense off as fact and exaggerating for effect.

Agreed, just funny how you complained about the hyperbole quite often before all of a sudden coming out with a splurge of it in one post!

Anyway I see your point..

DeanAustin · 08-08-2020 2:44pm

Rock77 wrote: »

Agreed, just funny how you complained about the hyperbole quite often before all of a sudden coming out with a splurge of it in one post!

Anyway I see your point..

Haha fair enough.

Muahahaha · 08-08-2020 2:54pm

dhaughton99 wrote: »

This might sound a bit outlandish but should Brady’s ham be now pulled from shelves or even boycotted?

Bradys Family Ham released a FAQ on Covid. But the answer below is a non-answer only going as far to say that the FSAI say there have been no reported cases of Covid linked to contamination of food

Am I at risk of contracting Covid-19 by handling your product?
All our products are produced to the highest standards following Food Safety Authority of Ireland guidelines. The FSAI reports that no reported cases of Covid-19 have been linked to contamination of food.
Since the first cases of Covid-19 were identified in Ireland last February, we have operated with an abundance of caution and a rigorous and comprehensive health and safety policy has been implemented. Public health advice to all consumers is to maintain good health and safety practices, to regularly wash hands and follow the official guidance.

https://www.bradyfamily.ie/covid-19-faq/

Even if there have been no reported cases I think their products should be taken off the supermarket shelves as a precaution. 80 people in their factory tested positive for the virus and the very products those employees produced are sitting on supermarket shelves nationwide right now. Even if the risk is tiny they still shouldnt be taking it just to keep selling their ham, its not worth it IMO.

statesaver · 08-08-2020 3:04pm

Ah well, at least the races in the Curragh are still on

https://www.the42.ie/curagh-5170718-Aug2020/?utm_source=shortlink&fbclid=IwAR3-6EIJ_px6z2wBvBJ8fYcUBO399VQmzwuCfPEy0aJtTNBQyM_TvF9h0iw

average_runner · 08-08-2020 3:05pm

Zebra3 wrote: »

There are no restrictions preventing people from infected areas of Kildare travelling to non-infected areas of Kildare.

Well done to all those who are responsible for public health, but refuse to protect the health of the public while proclaiming to do so.

Maybe sometimes people need to behave responsibly

hurikane · 08-08-2020 3:06pm

statesaver wrote: »

Ah well, at least the races in the Curragh are still on

https://www.the42.ie/curagh-5170718-Aug2020/?utm_source=shortlink&fbclid=IwAR3-6EIJ_px6z2wBvBJ8fYcUBO399VQmzwuCfPEy0aJtTNBQyM_TvF9h0iw

Part of the original announcement that racing would continue behind closed doors.

road_high · 08-08-2020 3:09pm

facehugger99 wrote: »

More lockdown.

Indeed. As evidenced by the last “all in it together” one they don’t work. But let’s keep repeating it in the off chance

Man with broke phone · 08-08-2020 3:26pm

Is the ham even held in quarantine for a few days before it goes to the shops? Ham lasts weeks unopened before it goes off.

Zebra3 · 08-08-2020 3:27pm

average_runner wrote: »

Maybe sometimes people need to behave responsibly

Of course they do.

But it seems our government can't do that.

Higgins5473 · 08-08-2020 3:29pm

Man with broke phone wrote: »

Is the ham even held in quarantine for a few days before it goes to the shops? Ham lasts weeks unopened before it goes off.

Hasn’t the whole surface transmission theory been debunked? Heard on radio last week virus only survives on a surface for 5 minutes. So could the meat not be sold anyway.

All of tHat was more of a question to anyone here that knows for certain than a statement

MadYaker · 08-08-2020 3:31pm

Man with broke phone wrote: »

Is the ham even held in quarantine for a few days before it goes to the shops? Ham lasts weeks unopened before it goes off.

I quarantine all my ham

Jim Root · 08-08-2020 3:32pm

caveat emptor wrote: »

What role do supermarkets have in setting the price.
I'm just thinking Germany had a similar issue with the processors.
They have same supermarkets. Lidl and Aldi like.

Who bares more responsibility for this drive to the bottom?

I know the dairy farmers are broken by the supermarkets.

Consumers. You, me and all the social media warriors and barstool experts.

xhomelezz · 08-08-2020 3:33pm

MadYaker wrote: »

I quarantine all my ham

Amazing thread, isn't it. Plenty of great ideas here. I'm after kicking my ham out the door, better to find new safe home

Lockdown for Kildare (Aug 8th-31st)

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