The great big "ask an airline pilot" thread!

1123heavy · 12-06-2020 1:14am

All this research may seem beneficial, but at the end of the day you are within 6 miles of the airport, it must be accepted that whatever runway configuration, the airport is going nowhere and there will inevitably be noise. On those late summer nights when the aircraft are arriving in all the way up to 3am on runway 28, with 0 surrounding noise pollution they will be heard very loud.

Perhaps further north towards Skerries or the Swords region would be better? Just trying to think practically

lambayire · 14-06-2020 6:30pm

I have some buddies who live right beside the train station in Portmarnock.

They say that you just get used to the noise.

I did attend a BBQ a while back and conversation was pretty much halted every 2 minutes or so.
I do miss the planes coming in/out every 2 minutes!!

Alicano · 15-06-2020 11:05am

1123heavy wrote: »

All this research may seem beneficial, but at the end of the day you are within 6 miles of the airport, it must be accepted that whatever runway configuration, the airport is going nowhere and there will inevitably be noise. On those late summer nights when the aircraft are arriving in all the way up to 3am on runway 28, with 0 surrounding noise pollution they will be heard very loud.

Perhaps further north towards Skerries or the Swords region would be better? Just trying to think practically

yep. We understand the above. More concerned about lil kid playing out back and any potential damage to them. Especially as no creche permitted. We are gonna skip this one. Lovely house. But as you guys know. All too noisy and all to frequent (albeit not right now). Thank you for the reply.

arybvtcw0eolkf · 15-06-2020 11:52am

Alicano, I don't live in that estate but I'm close by (although I'm not living directly under the approach flight path.

I'm also either walking the dogs, running or swimming on the beach (south beach), honestly aircraft noise wouldn't be an issue for me, and certainly not a deciding factor in making a decision on buying in Portmarnock. Of greater concern for me is the growing vehicular traffic problems we're having in the area, which gets far worse on sunny days. I dread to think of the congestion in the area in a few years.

Back to your concerns, I'd go and spend time in the estate and possibly talk to residents there regarding your concerns, I'm sure your mind would be put at ease.

Alicano · 15-06-2020 1:25pm

Colby Tiny Cello wrote: »

Alicano, I don't live in that estate but I'm close by (although I'm not living directly under the approach flight path.

I'm also either walking the dogs, running or swimming on the beach (south beach), honestly aircraft noise wouldn't be an issue for me, and certainly not a deciding factor in making a decision on buying in Portmarnock. Of greater concern for me is the growing vehicular traffic problems we're having in the area, which gets far worse on sunny days. I dread to think of the congestion in the area in a few years.

Back to your concerns, I'd go and spend time in the estate and possibly talk to residents there regarding your concerns, I'm sure your mind would be put at ease.

Thank you Colby Tiny Cello

This house is literally right under the flightpath that's the concern. We may wait for future phase and see how it goes. Portmarnock is lovely. Sth beach is fab too! But yes the traffic is dire on sunny weekends. Thankfully I run and cycle. Our concern is mainly about a lil human and their hearing. We'll visit the place a bit more. And we're not in a huge rush to buy this exact house so that helps. Thank you for taking time to respond

California Dreamer · 15-06-2020 1:42pm

Alicano wrote: »

This house is literally right under the flightpath that's the concern.

If this of slight concern now, would it not be safe to assume that in the years to come the 'problem' just gets worse?

You are raising a major red flag to what will be your biggest purchase in your life. Why would you settle for what it might become?

Alicano · 16-06-2020 6:38am

California Dreamer wrote: »

If this of slight concern now, would it not be safe to assume that in the years to come the 'problem' just gets worse?

You are raising a major red flag to what will be your biggest purchase in your life. Why would you settle for what it might become?

Hi CD. We're no longer considering the area. Thanks for the advice.

sysprogrammer · 17-07-2020 4:34pm

smurfjed wrote: »

So true, sure why would you bother listening to actual pilots who earn their living flying about the state of their industry, much better listening to a flying school salesman who will tell you that the world needs millions of pilots right now

If you can find ONE pilot who hasn’t had his/her life and career impacted by COVID, please let me know.

well, Did Michael O'Leary ring ya for your advice before resuming operations?

On a serious note though , have you noticed any effect on being away from regular flying ?

I can forget my login password after a week off work.

smurfjed · 17-07-2020 9:41pm

the main point to get across ,is that no one should hold off on their training based on a few internet posts.

smurfjed wrote: »

So true, sure why would you bother listening to actual pilots who earn their living flying about the state of their industry, much better listening to a flying school salesman who will tell you that the world needs millions of pilots right now

If you can find ONE pilot who hasn’t had his/her life and career impacted by COVID, please let me know.

If you are going to quote a post, its always polite to quote the whole quote so that people can see the context that it was written in. Now two months after that post, look around at what’s happening to pilots around the world, is it really a time that you want to go and invest 100,000?

And what makes you think that I have stopped flying during any of this?

L1011 · 17-07-2020 10:16pm

You can use the arrow on the quoted post to see the entire original post; if quoted using the correct format.

smurfjed · 17-07-2020 10:50pm

You mean the question box with the arrow pointing forwards?

Thanks

:)

Dean91 · 18-07-2020 12:40pm

Hi I need to make a career change, I have always been interested in becoming a pilot, I'm not going to say its dream as my dream would be to win the lotto and just not have to work lol . I can't go to college for 4 years to get a degree.

I want something I will enjoy for the 30 years and my salary would actually be worth it . In my late 20s currently saving for a mortgage but obviously will be put back if I go down this route. I just know if I get a mortgage there is no hope of been able to do this and I'm not going to just get a mortgage because everyone my age is jumping on the bandwagon, most people I know hate there jobs or are stuck with it as have a kid.

Big question would be how hard would it be getting into the job after flight school .
I am prepared to go back to my job of 30k after training and keep working there until get in .

If I missed anything let me know, thanks in advance.

1123heavy · 18-07-2020 1:01pm

Dean91 wrote: »

Hi I need to make a career change, I have always been interested in becoming a pilot, I'm not going to say its dream as my dream would be to win the lotto and just not have to work lol . I can't go to college for 4 years to get a degree.

I want something I will enjoy for the 30 years and my salary would actually be worth it . In my late 20s currently saving for a mortgage but obviously will be put back if I go down this route. I just know if I get a mortgage there is no hope of been able to do this and I'm not going to just get a mortgage because everyone my age is jumping on the bandwagon, most people I know hate there jobs or are stuck with it as have a kid.

Big question would be how hard would it be getting into the job after flight school .
I am prepared to go back to my job of 30k after training and keep working there until get in .

If I missed anything let me know, thanks in advance.

My advice would be to walk away, as cold as that sounds.

If you feel your life will genuinely not be the same without fulfilling this dream then go for it, but prepare yourself emotionally and financially to put an awful lot into it for potentially no return. Especially in this post COVID world, we have no idea when the industry will improve to a level where regular experienced hiring recommences, never mind low hour hiring (usually the sign of peak industry performance). By then you will likely be well into your 30's, I don't know what your home life is like with a wife etc but it goes without saying to take that pressure into account too.

Is it possible for you to still become a pilot? I would say yes (but i wouldn't start training now), I'd look at going modular and pacing it out over a few years, maybe get a crack on with the ground school if you have time to manage it with full time work.

Is it worth it for you to become a pilot? That depends entirely on how much you want it. There are lots of moany people in the game and who spend all day telling their colleague beside them about how they would have made a great barrister, company director etc etc and how our job is **** in comparison - these are the people who never asked themselves did they genuinely love flying as much as they thought they did, because when everything else is going wrong it's all you'll have to hold onto. I don't mean that to sound dramatic, but just don't get involved unless you can really see yourself loving the job because there's no way back once the big bucks are spent.

Muahahaha · 18-07-2020 1:43pm

This is a bit leftfield but that Ryanair plane the other day that had a bomb threat was escorted by a couple of fighter jets in Norway. Article said "The captain followed procedures and continued to Oslo airport where the plane landed safely". Whats the procedures here? How did the Norwegian air force ascertain it was a hoax and what happens if they thought it was credible?

1123heavy · 18-07-2020 3:20pm

Muahahaha wrote: »

This is a bit leftfield but that Ryanair plane the other day that had a bomb threat was escorted by a couple of fighter jets in Norway. Article said "The captain followed procedures and continued to Oslo airport where the plane landed safely". Whats the procedures here? How did the Norwegian air force ascertain it was a hoax and what happens if they thought it was credible?

There are emergency procedures published for 'bomb on board', part of it includes trying to descend to reduce the cabin pressure differential (reduces the destruction were a bomb to go off), if you identify a bag or rucksack that allegedly has a bomb in it then you try to hang it to a door or cover it with other items. After landing you'll proceed to a remote stand far from the terminal building.

Muahahaha · 18-07-2020 3:36pm

cheers. I wonder though what would the air force do if they believed the threat to be highly credible, like a telephone call from a known terrorist organisation. Would the air force still try to escort it in and land it or would they be ordering it out to sea to assess the situation further. Its a bit of a catch 22, even if the cabin crew were to locate the device they still cant get rid of it. I know its the stuff of disaster movies but that Ryanair flight the other day would make you think what an air force would do with extremely limited options.

smurfjed · 18-07-2020 4:34pm

you identify a bag or rucksack that allegedly has a bomb in it then you

depressurise, open a specific door and throw it out:):) Much easier approach

goingnowhere · 18-07-2020 5:09pm

smurfjed wrote: »

depressurise, open a specific door and throw it out:):) Much easier approach

No no no, pressure switches

There is a SOP for identified bomb on board in the passenger cabin, if you are qualified on type you will know what and where to do it.

smurfjed · 18-07-2020 5:29pm

No no no, pressure switches

Yes yes yes yes.
\

I have an SOP to do it

“Throw the device out using a strong outward and downward motion.”

Growler!!! · 18-07-2020 5:33pm

Muahahaha wrote: »

cheers. I wonder though what would the air force do if they believed the threat to be highly credible, like a telephone call from a known terrorist organisation. Would the air force still try to escort it in and land it or would they be ordering it out to sea to assess the situation further. Its a bit of a catch 22, even if the cabin crew were to locate the device they still cant get rid of it. I know its the stuff of disaster movies but that Ryanair flight the other day would make you think what an air force would do with extremely limited options.

I gather that your question is more to do with what the Air Force response will be as opposed to airline SOP's for a bomb on board.
Suffice to say that any quick reaction intervention from an air force will be with armed aircraft. Ultimately the weapons on board are only designed for one thing, the outcome of which would have been discussed at the highest level.

If communications are still available with the flight crew, they will be directed to land at a designated airport such as Stansted for the UK. From there ground forces will take over and investigate.

The case of Helios flight 522 is an example of an interception where the crew were incapacitated and could not be contacted. The intercepting aircraft were able to ascertain that the crew were unconscious and the masks had deployed in the cabin. The Helios flight followed the flight plan in its flight computer into a holding pattern and maintained altitude until it ran out of fuel.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Helios_Airways_Flight_522

goingnowhere · 18-07-2020 10:01pm

smurfjed wrote: »

Yes yes yes yes.
\

I have an SOP to do it

“Throw the device out using a strong outward and downward motion.”

It's the LRBL procedure, the A320 SOP doesn't suggest throwing anything out the window....

1123heavy · 18-07-2020 10:28pm

It's hard to believe there is any airline with a procedure that asks unequipped and untrained (in the field of handling a bomb) crew to physically handle a bomb and open a door in flight (!?) throwing it out to whoever is below!

I took the post as a joke and presume it is

smurfjed · 19-07-2020 1:26am

I took the post as a joke and presume it is

No joke, I can send you the complete Operational Information Supplement that covers at a guess over 2000 actual aircraft.

Growler!!! · 19-07-2020 8:29am

smurfjed wrote: »

Yes yes yes yes.
\

I have an SOP to do it

“Throw the device out using a strong outward and downward motion.”

If there's one thing I've learned in aviation is that no matter how experienced you think you are and how much knowledge you think you possess, just because its not in your frame of reference (ie. within your type, company or region). That it doesn't exist somewhere!!

The following refers:

Gulfstream Operational Information Supplement for GII through G550 Airplanes, GAC-OIS-01: Mitigation of Potentially Explosive Devices, Basic issue, March 15, 2005

https://code7700.com/bomb_threat.htm#ref

smurfjed · 19-07-2020 9:54am

@Growler, thank you, that’s the one I was talking about

:)

Welcome back to boards

1123heavy · 19-07-2020 11:33am

That's incredible. It certainly wasn't taught to us and isn't a part of our bomb on board emergency procedures

Muahahaha · 19-07-2020 4:36pm

Growler!!! wrote: »

I gather that your question is more to do with what the Air Force response will be as opposed to airline SOP's for a bomb on board.
Suffice to say that any quick reaction intervention from an air force will be with armed aircraft. Ultimately the weapons on board are only designed for one thing, the outcome of which would have been discussed at the highest level.

If communications are still available with the flight crew, they will be directed to land at a designated airport such as Stansted for the UK. From there ground forces will take over and investigate.

The case of Helios flight 522 is an example of an interception where the crew were incapacitated and could not be contacted. The intercepting aircraft were able to ascertain that the crew were unconscious and the masks had deployed in the cabin. The Helios flight followed the flight plan in its flight computer into a holding pattern and maintained altitude until it ran out of fuel.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Helios_Airways_Flight_522

Thanks Growler. Its a rare occurrence but the Ryanair flight to Norway last week had got me thinking about what air forces procedures are. Its such a difficulty for them to ascertain if a bomb threat is credible or not and decisions have to be made at a high level very,very quickly.

That Hellios crash you linked is interesting. Sad it happened because an engineer failed to reset the pressurisation system to auto having tested it on manual. And then the crew misinterpreting warning alarms as the plane gained altitude before they all lost consciousness. Though fortunate that it crashed into a hill side rather than a heavily populated area of Athens.

I wonder though with the auto pilot technology that is available if modern aircraft could be controlled remotely by a pilot in a simulator to land it in the event of the crew falling unconscious? Id guess it would be possible but is such a rare event that the manufacturers dont add that feature, plus the extra costs of it. But if it did exist they might have saved 121 lives there.

sysprogrammer · 21-07-2020 9:48am

smurfjed wrote: »

If you are going to quote a post, its always polite to quote the whole quote so that people can see the context that it was written in. Now two months after that post, look around at what’s happening to pilots around the world, is it really a time that you want to go and invest 100,000?

And what makes you think that I have stopped flying during any of this?

Quoting whole posts is usually frowned upon. I do see your tactic though.

you are advising people to sit around and not do something , while you yourself are still flying (allegedly).

Let me say that we are not going to agree , no one is going to stop and wait for your okay.

I never said anyone should go investing 100,000 (you do go overboard a bit) , I said 2.5k of lessons is enough to know if this a career choice or not.

Let's stop the pointless back and forth right here. next time I'll ask a different airline pilot.

basill · 21-07-2020 12:37pm

sysprogrammer wrote: »

Let's stop the pointless back and forth right here. next time I'll ask a different airline pilot.

Well this one thinks you need your head read if you are contemplating getting into this industry at the moment. IF you get a job (most do not) you are likely to get what effectively amounts to a zero hours contract. And there will be no shortage of people falling over themselves to sign on the dotted line. Stay doing the day job and enjoy recreational flying would be my advice.

California Dreamer · 21-07-2020 2:24pm

sysprogrammer wrote: »

Quoting whole posts is usually frowned upon. I do see your tactic though.

you are advising people to sit around and not do something , while you yourself are still flying (allegedly).

Let me say that we are not going to agree , no one is going to stop and wait for your okay.

I never said anyone should go investing 100,000 (you do go overboard a bit) , I said 2.5k of lessons is enough to know if this a career choice or not.

Let's stop the pointless back and forth right here. next time I'll ask a different airline pilot.

I gave an opinion and I am not a pilot although I work indirectly in the business and I did look at a couple of years ago doing the training.

Everything that I said in previous posts was correct so whos 'opinion' is correct?

But by all means go for it, that A380 or 747 job is waiting for you.....oh wait!

How many BA pilots effectively lost their jobs with the 747 gone? Im not sure, but I thought I had heard 600.

sysprogrammer · 21-07-2020 4:16pm

basill wrote: »

Well this one thinks you need your head read if you are contemplating getting into this industry at the moment. IF you get a job (most do not) you are likely to get what effectively amounts to a zero hours contract. And there will be no shortage of people falling over themselves to sign on the dotted line. Stay doing the day job and enjoy recreational flying would be my advice.

Basill , the tone of your comments ,and Smurfs isn't lost on me.
Head read from yourself , Flying school salesman from Smurf. really ??

I'd never once suggested leaving the day job, I merely did not agree with smurf.
training for ATPL is a multi year event , and the entire landscape will not be the same as present conditions. zero hours contracts or not.

@california dreamer : too early to tell. they were not the first airline to ever go under and surely won't be the last. my own previous instructor was ex-Ansett.

I guess my point here is , if anyone wants to learn to fly ,then go fly, it does not cost 100,000+ for a few lessons, and don't take advice from random internet posts :-)

@Tenger, apologies, it wasn't my intention to derail this thread, won't post again. simply calling out the not so nice putdowns.
/end

smurfjed · 10-08-2020 10:53am

I said pages ago to wait and see how the airline industry comes out of this, well even I didn’t think that terms and conditions for an A320 TRE/TRI For any airline would get this bad.

Basic Fee (Paid from date of first flight) USD400 per month, from first flight up to 25 flight hours
Flight Pay per hour (more than 25 hours) USD25 per hour
(Taken from Rushworth Aviation offer for Vietnam Airlines based in Hanoi)

That’s $1900 for an 85 hour month as AFAIK, they don’t supply Accommodation.

This is insane.

Board Walker · 14-09-2020 4:05pm

I have a Question!

When Approaching a runway on arrival in a commercial airiner, Is the Pilot vectored to the ILS/Localizer or is the pilot told to fly a certain STAR approach?

I always wondered and especially now in the new Flight Simulator when you aren't vectored any more(Or told to fly a certain approach as its all inputted at the start before you load the flight) .

Cheers

Growler!!! · 14-09-2020 4:48pm

Board Walker wrote: »

I have a Question!

When Approaching a runway on arrival in a commercial airiner, Is the Pilot vectored to the ILS/Localizer or is the pilot told to fly a certain STAR approach?

I always wondered and especially now in the new Flight Simulator when you aren't vectored any more(Or told to fly a certain approach as its all inputted at the start before you load the flight) .

Cheers

It very much depends on the airport and how busy it is. Many airports when busy will give the pilots a STAR designator and the type of approach expected (ILS/RNAV/RNP-AR etc). The STAR will generally have altitude and speed restrictions to facilitate spacing. Some airports STARs are similar to Dublins point merge system which has an arc and then a turn to the intermediate approach or final approach fix. Others like Prauge will bring aircraft to the end of the STAR then continue on a heading until vectored onto final.

Recently, as it has been less busy, ATC are routing aircraft from the initial point on a STAR direct to the final approach fix to pick up the ILS.

smurfjed · 28-09-2020 9:06am

The numbers quoted in this article are insane.

In a document seen by AirlineGeeks, the director of Commercial and Customer Experience at L3Harris, Garry Cross, informed students with the following: “We will transfer the funds paid by you to date for the MPL program to the ATPL course. However, based on the training you have completed and the anticipated additional training you will be required to complete in respect of non-transferable flight hours, there will be an additional cost payable by you of £64,095.83 due to the need to re-perform some of the non-transferable training lessons. Your total cost of training will now be £173,095.83 ($220,593.33).”

Full article here https://airlinegeeks.com/2020/09/25/major-european-flight-school-charging-students-81-000-to-convert-licences/

Bleak · 10-02-2021 5:33pm

Question. On initial communication between incoming aircraft and tower, what’s the meaning of statement that “Information is [phonetic alphabet letter]” ie Information is Quebec. What does this mean?

goingnowhere · 10-02-2021 6:10pm

It confirms the aircraft has the latest weather for the aerodrome, the QNH and current runway(s) in use.

Bleak · 10-02-2021 6:20pm

goingnowhere wrote: »

It confirms the aircraft has the latest weather for the aerodrome, the QNH and current runway(s) in use.

Thanks. And the significance of the letter?

mr.anonymous · 10-02-2021 6:53pm

Bleak wrote: »

Thanks. And the significance of the letter?

Information given now will might be Mike. Then if the info is updated the letter changes.

So if an aircraft descending says it has information Mike, the controller can tell them to check information November indicating it has been updated since they listened.

Bleak · 10-02-2021 7:21pm

mr.anonymous wrote: »

Information given now will might be Mike. Then if the info is updated the letter changes.

So if an aircraft descending says it has information Mike, the controller can tell them to check information November indicating it has been updated since they listened.

Great thanks. Makes sense. Last question (I think ðŸ™‚). Where would this information have come from? Is say information ‘Mike’ coming from flight computer or say from flight plan at start?

AnRothar · 10-02-2021 9:28pm

Bleak wrote: »

Great thanks. Makes sense. Last question (I think ��). Where would this information have come from? Is say information ‘Mike’ coming from flight computer or say from flight plan at start?

ATIS (Automatic Terminal Information System).
Ground based transmitter at the airport.
Computer or person it depends.
Modern systems usually are electronic but someone will still cross check the info to ensure its correct before validating it for transmission.

Bleak · 10-02-2021 9:57pm

Thanks. Could I ask a question as well on RULAV. Is it in Irish controlled airspace? It doesn’t show on the published Dublin charts as termination waypoints such as NEVRI and PESIT do so I assume it’s in UK airspace? Clearance is always given on say LIFFY 6A departures direct to RULAV and never LIFFY. Excuse my ignorance and any info appreciated.

AnRothar · 10-02-2021 10:19pm

RULAV is on the far side of LIFFY, On the Q36 airway.

breadmond · 13-02-2021 6:54pm

Bleak wrote: »

Thanks. Could I ask a question as well on RULAV. Is it in Irish controlled airspace? It doesn’t show on the published Dublin charts as termination waypoints such as NEVRI and PESIT do so I assume it’s in UK airspace? Clearance is always given on say LIFFY 6A departures direct to RULAV and never LIFFY. Excuse my ignorance and any info appreciated.

If you're talking about aircraft already airborne being cleared dct RULAV rather than LIFFY that's because in being cleared for the LIFFY6A SID they are already cleared to the end of that SID i.e. LIFFY so it would be redundant to clear them there again. Aircraft are instead cleared to a point on their route beyond the SID so RULAV in this case. If the airspace is not busy this clearance may be given before the aircraft has flown the full departure also which will allow them to make a more direct route to their airway routing and so save time and fuel

PinOnTheRight · 13-02-2021 8:47pm

Bleak wrote: »

Thanks. Could I ask a question as well on RULAV. Is it in Irish controlled airspace? It doesn’t show on the published Dublin charts as termination waypoints such as NEVRI and PESIT do so I assume it’s in UK airspace? Clearance is always given on say LIFFY 6A departures direct to RULAV and never LIFFY. Excuse my ignorance and any info appreciated.

https://skyvector.com/ is a useful website that you will show you the airways and waypoints. If you can't find it on the map, type it into the flight plan window and it'll help you find it.

goingnowhere · 13-02-2021 10:18pm

RULAV is the next point after LIFFY, it is off the Isle of Anglesey in Wales.

Its a small shortcut to skip having to fly over LIFFY can go direct to RULAV, in the old days it was direct ROLEX which is off Llandudno

14-02-2021 12:28pm

Do the airlines play around with MTOW to minimise charges at Dublin Airport?

smurfjed · 14-02-2021 12:35pm

It’s a common practice, so the answer is most likely yes. Will also apply to overflight charges.

basill · 14-02-2021 2:01pm

Deleted User wrote: »

Do the airlines play around with MTOW to minimise charges at Dublin Airport?

Not in mine.

billie1b · 15-02-2021 2:00pm

[Deleted User] wrote: »

Do the airlines play around with MTOW to minimise charges at Dublin Airport?

Yes, most operators have different MTOW’s of their aircraft, usually 3, my operator has up to 5 on some aircraft, when flight plans are completed the line maintenance engineer with get a copy of what weight the specific aircraft needs and change it to match the flight plan, over the course of a year it can save thousands of euros in charges.

The great big "ask an airline pilot" thread!

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