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Jim Gavin

2

Comments

  • #52
    Beechwoodspark
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 15,847 ✭✭✭✭Beechwoodspark


    3 days since anyone posted on this thread

    That says a lot

    I have a good few county board contacts

    All I can say at the moment is watch this space.

    More to come.


  • #53
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 7,712 ✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    Beechwoodspark wrote: »
    3 days since anyone posted on this thread

    That says a lot

    I have a good few county board contacts

    All I can say at the moment is watch this space.

    More to come.

    What country board though?


  • #54
    seligehgit
    Registered Users Posts: 9,286 ✭✭✭seligehgit


    Beechwoodspark wrote: »
    3 days since anyone posted on this thread

    That says a lot

    I have a good few county board contacts

    All I can say at the moment is watch this space.

    More to come.

    Mod Warning

    Please quit the trolling


  • #55
    munster87
    Registered Users Posts: 4,304 ✭✭✭munster87


    blanch152 wrote: »
    Have to laugh at some of the stuff on this thread.

    Jim Gavin's team won five All-Irelands in a row, no other manager ever did that.
    Jim Gavin's team won 18 out of the first 21 major trophies in seven years, no other manager ever did that.
    Jim Gavin's team holds the record for the longest unbeaten run in championship and league, and in championship only, no other manager ever did that.

    That makes him the greatest manager of all time. No questions, no doubts. The statistics are too far above anyone else.

    If you case your mind back to the autumn of 2012, there would have been Cork, Tyrone, Mayo, Donegal and Kerry, who would have all been confident that they could win the next All-Ireland. No other era ever had that many competitors. They have all been beaten out of sight since.

    It’s all relative I suppose. I would say winning 8 All Ireland’s and then going to two other counties and managing to win provincial titles after no title in 42 years (Kildare) and 57 years (Laois) takes someone special. Micko has as much of an argument as Gavin in my eyes if not more.


  • #56
    castletownman
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 11,496 ✭✭✭✭castletownman


    Jim and Micko are without doubt in the top two, but what I think shades it for Micko is the strength of the team's he faced during the same era. You had the best ever Dublin team before this one came around and the best ever Offaly team (a cult classic) that obviously came back to beat them in 1982. To win eight All Irelands between 1975-1986 (and no back-door) was some going.

    Compare that to this era. How many counties can claim to have had their strongest group? Donegal certainly, who of course were the only team to have beaten Gavin. Mayo perhaps, but no backbone when it matters. This version of Tyrone cannot hold a candle to the 00s team. Kerry should develop into a top team, but aren't there yet. All the other traditional footballing counties have regressed.

    I understand that this Dublin team have won a few AI's by a single point, and were brought to two replays, and that's a feather in Gavin's cap as he has them drilled to the nth degree. Don't want to bring the elephant in the room into the debate, but that clearly helps too.

    So while both their feats will never be seen again, I am of the belief that Micko just shades as he was up against stronger teams than Gavin.


  • #57
    blanch152
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 28,304 ✭✭✭✭blanch152


    castletownman wrote: »
    Jim and Micko are without doubt in the top two, but what I think shades it for Micko is the strength of the team's he faced during the same era. You had the best ever Dublin team before this one came around and the best ever Offaly team (a cult classic) that obviously came back to beat them in 1982. To win eight All Irelands between 1975-1986 (and no back-door) was some going.

    Compare that to this era. How many counties can claim to have had their strongest group? Donegal certainly, who of course were the only team to have beaten Gavin. Mayo perhaps, but no backbone when it matters. This version of Tyrone cannot hold a candle to the 00s team. Kerry should develop into a top team, but aren't there yet. All the other traditional footballing counties have regressed.

    I understand that this Dublin team have won a few AI's by a single point, and were brought to two replays, and that's a feather in Gavin's cap as he has them drilled to the nth degree. Don't want to bring the elephant in the room into the debate, but that clearly helps too.

    So while both their feats will never be seen again, I am of the belief that Micko just shades as he was up against stronger teams than Gavin.


    I disagree.

    You go back to autumn 2012, and there were a lot of counties - Mayo, Donegal, Cork, Kerry and Tyrone, even Monaghan - who would have all thought that they had a chance of winning the 2013 All-Ireland championship. All six, plus Cavan and Dublin featured in the 2013 All-Ireland quarter-finals. That wasn't the case in spring of 1975, when only Dublin, and maybe Galway might have had strong thoughts about an All-Ireland win.

    Dublin have crushed the hopes and dreams of all those teams over the next seven years, with six All-Ireland titles. That Kerry team couldn't win six in seven years with only one team to beat during that time - they never had to face both Dublin and Offaly, thanks to there being no back door (Arguably, a Dublin team coming through the backdoor in 1981 could have prevented the four-in-a-row, as that was a rebuild that needed matches to learn). One of their All-Irelands took them three games to win, several others only four. Dublin have played 5 games in the All-Ireland series alone for the last two years.

    It is a display of dominance over so many teams that hasn't been seen before, and will not be seen again.


  • #58
    slegs
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,014 ✭✭✭slegs


    castletownman wrote: »
    Jim and Micko are without doubt in the top two, but what I think shades it for Micko is the strength of the team's he faced during the same era. You had the best ever Dublin team before this one came around and the best ever Offaly team (a cult classic) that obviously came back to beat them in 1982. To win eight All Irelands between 1975-1986 (and no back-door) was some going.

    Compare that to this era. How many counties can claim to have had their strongest group? Donegal certainly, who of course were the only team to have beaten Gavin. Mayo perhaps, but no backbone when it matters. This version of Tyrone cannot hold a candle to the 00s team. Kerry should develop into a top team, but aren't there yet. All the other traditional footballing counties have regressed.

    I understand that this Dublin team have won a few AI's by a single point, and were brought to two replays, and that's a feather in Gavin's cap as he has them drilled to the nth degree. Don't want to bring the elephant in the room into the debate, but that clearly helps too.

    So while both their feats will never be seen again, I am of the belief that Micko just shades as he was up against stronger teams than Gavin.

    Football is a faster game now needing greater skills and better physicality / performance levels. Arguments that Kerry played against better teams in the Micko days are just nonsense. For all we know Mayo, Donegal etc of today could beat all the teams of back then making Gavin's achievement even greater.

    Jim Gavin won the magical 5 in a row and is clearly the greatest and most successful manager of all time. His legend will only increase with time as with Micko.


  • #59
    lillielad
    Registered Users Posts: 209 ✭✭lillielad


    Great manager but honestly are we allowed to mention financial advantages...


  • #60
    gaffer91
    Registered Users Posts: 1,307 ✭✭✭gaffer91


    lillielad wrote: »
    Great manager but honestly are we allowed to mention financial advantages...

    Mentioning the financial advantages is frowned upon- The Dublin GAA secretary was complaining about the media mentioning them last week.

    Here is a good, albeit highly repetitive detailing Dublin's unfair advantages compared to any other county and how those advantages help them to achieve success.
    blanch152 wrote: »
    Have to laugh at some of the stuff on this thread.

    Jim Gavin's team won five All-Irelands in a row, no other manager ever did that.
    Jim Gavin's team won 18 out of the first 21 major trophies in seven years, no other manager ever did that.
    Jim Gavin's team holds the record for the longest unbeaten run in championship and league, and in championship only, no other manager ever did that.

    That makes him the greatest manager of all time. No questions, no doubts. The statistics are too far above anyone else.

    There are questions, and doubts. The big question is "Would he have achieved a similar level of success without the funding and other advantages?".

    He's done well, for sure, but correctly judging his legacy is very hard because of these issues.

    The best way he could can truly test his mettle is by taking a county without these advantages and seeing what success he can have.


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  • #61
    Beechwoodspark
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 15,847 ✭✭✭✭Beechwoodspark


    Certain issues regarding dublin GAA are not supposed to be mentioned. Frowned upon even.


  • #62
    Soulsun
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 547 ✭✭✭Soulsun


    Philly and Cluxton next to hang up their boots?


  • #63
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 7,712 ✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    I heard he found out how they put the figs in the fog rolls and had to go before they caught up with him.


  • #64
    Poor_old_gill
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,895 ✭✭✭Poor_old_gill


    I heard he found out that winning 6 out of 7 all Irelands is actually quite tiring and that he has had to, an extent, put his family’s life on hold for his tenure.


  • #65
    bucketybuck
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 18,495 ✭✭✭✭bucketybuck


    blanch152 wrote: »
    I disagree.

    You go back to autumn 2012, and there were a lot of counties - Mayo, Donegal, Cork, Kerry and Tyrone, even Monaghan - who would have all thought that they had a chance of winning the 2013 All-Ireland championship.

    They might all have thought they had a chance of winning in 2013, but that doesn't necessarily mean they were great teams. Because they weren't and everybody knows it.

    That isn't to denigrate what Dublin achieved, not at all. But the only dreams Dublin crushed over the next 6 years were Mayo's, while the likes of Cork, Kerry and Tyrone knew full well they were in a slump relative to previous generations.


  • #66
    Gael85
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,379 ✭✭✭Gael85


    Jim Gavin Record as Dublin senior manager

    6 All Irelands
    5 National Leagues
    7 Leinsters
    Never lost championship game to Leinster/Connacht/Munster opposition
    Never lost championship/league game to Leinster/Connacht opposition


    Games Won Draw Lost Goals Points Total Goals Points Total
    Championship Championship 2019 9 8 1 0 19 172 229 3 110 119
    Championship 2018 8 8 0 0 17 169 220 6 105 123
    Championship 2017 6 6 0 0 10 124 154 2 73 79
    Championship 2016 7 6 1 0 8 122 146 6 84 102
    Championship 2015 7 6 1 0 18 118 172 4 83 95
    Championship 2014 5 4 0 1 9 105 132 5 63 78
    Championship 2013 6 6 0 0 13 99 138 5 71 86
    48 44 3 1 94 909 1191 31 589 682

    Games Won Draw Lost Goals Points Total Goals Points Total
    League League 2019 7 4 0 3 9 95 122 6 81 99
    League 2018 8 6 1 1 8 125 149 5 98 113
    League 2017 8 4 3 1 7 125 146 4 92 104
    League 2016 9 9 0 0 11 127 160 4 99 111
    League 2015 9 6 1 2 8 131 155 4 101 113
    League 2014 9 6 1 2 14 138 180 11 117 150
    League 2013 9 7 1 1 10 139 169 5 106 121
    59 42 7 10 67 880 1081 39 694 811

    107 86 10 11 161 1789 2272 70 1283 1493


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  • #67
    gaffer91
    Registered Users Posts: 1,307 ✭✭✭gaffer91


    @Gael85- People are aware of his record and I agree that at first glance it looks excellent.

    When you go past the surface and learn that Gavin and Dublin have been greatly helped by the funding, the de facto home advantage etc, it is obvious to any neutral observer that it puts a giant asterisk beside these achievements.

    Would he have been as successful without these advantages? Almost certainly not.

    He can really test himself by moving to a different county without these advantages and seeing how he gets on. Dublin will still win the All Ireland so that shouldn't be the barometer. If he could do something like bring a team like Fermanagh to an All Ireland final, that would be more impressive than this current achievement, as there wouldn't be the unfairness tainting this success as that there is for his success with Dublin.


  • #68
    Hammer Archer
    Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 11,439 Mod ✭✭✭✭Hammer Archer


    Next person who thinks they're the big man/woman by throwing out vague "I heard something but I can't say what" statements gets a ban.


  • #69
    Nidgeweasel
    Registered Users Posts: 2,621 ✭✭✭Nidgeweasel


    gaffer91 wrote: »
    If he could do something like bring a team like Fermanagh to an All Ireland final, that would be more impressive than this current achievement, as there wouldn't be the unfairness tainting this success as that there is for his success with Dublin.



    :rolleyes:


  • #70
    gaffer91
    Registered Users Posts: 1,307 ✭✭✭gaffer91


    Nidgeweasel wrote: »
    :rolleyes:

    Not sure what point you're trying to make.

    We're making qualitative judgements about what would be greater achievements compared to what Gavin has done with Dublin. This is just one example of such a judgement, there are many more besides. Reaching an All Ireland final is the only realistic goal for most counties given how skewed things are in favour of Dublin.

    You'd take a team with no financial doping, no de facto home advantage for consequential games, including finals and semi-finals, no huge population and bring them as far as is feasible. There would be no asterisk besides the achievement hence why it would be look superior to Gavin's current record.


  • #71
    Nidgeweasel
    Registered Users Posts: 2,621 ✭✭✭Nidgeweasel


    gaffer91 wrote: »
    Not sure what point you're trying to make.

    We're making qualitative judgements about what would be greater achievements compared to what Gavin has done with Dublin. This is just one example of such a judgement, there are many more besides. Reaching an All Ireland final is the only realistic goal for most counties given how skewed things are in favour of Dublin.

    You'd take a team with no financial doping, no de facto home advantage for consequential games, including finals and semi-finals, no huge population and bring them as far as is feasible. There would be no asterisk besides the achievement hence why it would be look superior to Gavin's current record.

    You're being deliberately belligerent.

    The history books don't have asterisks - just the number All Ireland medals. Gavin has won 5 in a row and 6 in total as senior manager and 3 at U-21.

    That Gavin has to go to a lesser county so somehow justify that record is probably one of the most embarrassing things I have ever heard.

    And not withstanding the churlishness of your entire suggestion. Why would anybody want to go to another county? Gavin is a dub and has been involved in Dublin Football all his life. Yet he should now go to somewhere he has no emotional attachment with to try and prove himself :confused:. Complete and utter nonsense.

    ah he might have won 6 all irelands - but would he win it with Fermanagh? :rolleyes: Grow up.


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  • #72
    munster87
    Registered Users Posts: 4,304 ✭✭✭munster87


    Even Rory Gallagher couldn’t win it with Fermanagh sure


  • #73
    Beechwoodspark
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 15,847 ✭✭✭✭Beechwoodspark


    gaffer91 wrote: »
    @Gael85- People are aware of his record and I agree that at first glance it looks excellent.

    When you go past the surface and learn that Gavin and Dublin have been greatly helped by the funding, the de facto home advantage etc, it is obvious to any neutral observer that it puts a giant asterisk beside these achievements.

    Would he have been as successful without these advantages? Almost certainly not.

    He can really test himself by moving to a different county without these advantages and seeing how he gets on. Dublin will still win the All Ireland so that shouldn't be the barometer. If he could do something like bring a team like Fermanagh to an All Ireland final, that would be more impressive than this current achievement, as there wouldn't be the unfairness tainting this success as that there is for his success with Dublin.

    Agree.

    Way too many inherent and completely ludicrous advantages for dublin in the Gavin years.

    To put it mildly it tarnishes the so called success. Obscene money, home advantage, the absolutely crazy population advantage that dublin has.

    Let’s be honest. Big asterisk beside him until he does it with a “average” county.

    I suspect he won’t ever take up that challenge.

    Call me a football romantic But I hope against all hope that he proves me wrong.


  • #74
    gaffer91
    Registered Users Posts: 1,307 ✭✭✭gaffer91


    Nidgeweasel wrote: »
    You're being deliberately belligerent.

    The history books don't have asterisks - just the number All Ireland medals. Gavin has won 5 in a row and 6 in total as senior manager and 3 at U-21.

    That Gavin has to go to a lesser county so somehow justify that record is probably one of the most embarrassing things I have ever heard.

    I'm not being belligerent at all. This thread is discussing him resigning as Dublin manager and the legacy he leaves behind.

    Gavin has shown that with a team with massive funding advantages, de facto home advantage, a population that dwarfs the average, he can be successful. That shows he can win with those advantages but otherwise doesn't prove much. Many others would have been as successful when given such a stacked deck.

    You claiming that this success should be given as much respect as someone achieving success without ludicrous advantages is probably one of the most embarrassing things I have ever heard.
    Nidgeweasel wrote: »
    And not withstanding the churlishness of your entire suggestion. Why would anybody want to go to another county? Gavin is a dub and has been involved in Dublin Football all his life. Yet he should now go to somewhere he has no emotional attachment with to try and prove himself :confused:. Complete and utter nonsense.

    Many managers go to other counties? :confused: For love of the game, because they're living there, for a new challenge and many other reasons besides.

    He doesn't have to prove himself to anonymous internet posters of course. But it's very true that we can't draw any real conclusions from his time in Dublin other than they he can be successful when completely advantaged compared to every other county. This doesn't mean he will be successful without these advantages.
    Nidgeweasel wrote: »

    ah he might have won 6 all irelands - but would he win it with Fermanagh? :rolleyes: Grow up.

    Grow up yourself and recognise that he and Dublin have been unfairly advantaged.

    Fermanagh is just an example. Other examples would be say, winning a Munster with Waterford, winning Connacht with London etc. There are literally countless other scenarios someone could think up besides these. The reason these successes can be deemed superior is because they wouldn't be coming from an unfairly advantaged position, like Gavin's to date have. Hope that helps.

    I don't use winning an All-Ireland as a barometer because the stacked deck will of course also apply to Gavin's successor- Dublin will continue to dominate without him because the advantages continue.


  • #75
    Nidgeweasel
    Registered Users Posts: 2,621 ✭✭✭Nidgeweasel


    gaffer91 wrote: »
    I'm not being belligerent at all. This thread is discussing him resigning as Dublin manager and the legacy he leaves behind.

    Gavin has shown that with a team with massive funding advantages, de facto home advantage, a population that dwarfs the average, he can be successful. That shows he can win with those advantages but otherwise doesn't prove much. Many others would have been as successful when given such a stacked deck.

    You claiming that this success should be given as much respect as someone achieving success without ludicrous advantages is probably one of the most embarrassing things I have ever heard.



    Many managers go to other counties? :confused: For love of the game, because they're living there, for a new challenge and many other reasons besides.

    He doesn't have to prove himself to anonymous internet posters of course. But it's very true that we can't draw any real conclusions from his time in Dublin other than they he can be successful when completely advantaged compared to every other county. This doesn't mean he will be successful without these advantages.



    Grow up yourself and recognise that he and Dublin have been unfairly advantaged.

    Fermanagh is just an example. Other examples would be say, winning a Munster with Waterford, winning Connacht with London etc. There are literally countless other scenarios someone could think up besides these. The reason these successes can be deemed superior is because they wouldn't be coming from an unfairly advantaged position, like Gavin's to date have. Hope that helps.

    I don't use winning an All-Ireland as a barometer because the stacked deck will of course also apply to Gavin's successor- Dublin will continue to dominate without him because the advantages continue.

    Wow.

    I'm starting to see why Dublin posters get frustrated having to see posters pontificating like this.

    I suppose we'll just have to wait and see can Gavin win an all ireland with Leitrim before deciding if he's any use. Sin é.


  • #76
    Beechwoodspark
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 15,847 ✭✭✭✭Beechwoodspark


    Jim G has won with every card in the pack stacked in his favour and that’s being polite.

    He needs to show he can do it someplace else before he makes my top 10.


  • #77
    .G.
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,417 ✭✭✭.G.


    Dessie Farrell confirmed as new boss.


  • #78
    dunnerc
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,462 ✭✭✭dunnerc


    Beechwoodspark wrote: »
    Jim G has won with every card in the pack stacked in his favour and that’s being polite.

    He needs to show he can do it someplace else before he makes my top 10.

    As if he would give a monkeys about making your top 10 :rolleyes:


  • #79
    dobman88
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,535 ✭✭✭dobman88


    riemann wrote: »
    Oh look Mr. TOUGH GUY laying down the law.

    Shutting down discussion.

    Although it must be difficult to talk when you have your mouth full.

    :pac: bye bye


  • #80
    gaffer91
    Registered Users Posts: 1,307 ✭✭✭gaffer91


    Nidgeweasel wrote: »
    Wow.

    I'm starting to see why Dublin posters get frustrated having to see posters pontificating like this.

    Not pontificating, just stating facts. Sometime they get frustrated when these facts are mentioned though, it's true. Totally (and justifiably) takes the gloss off this Dublin team's achievements and instead places a big asterisk beside them.
    Nidgeweasel wrote: »

    I suppose we'll just have to wait and see can Gavin win an all ireland with Leitrim before deciding if he's any use. Sin é.

    We'll just have to see if he can win games and titles with a team that isn't unfairly advantaged compared to every other one. Why are you so keen to ignore the platform that his successes have been built off?


  • #81
    LoughNeagh2017
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 1,074 ✭✭✭LoughNeagh2017


    Jim played in my townland in 2008, I never knew who he was at that time though. My townlands field was one of the training grounds for the Derry early 90s team. The parish has 2 clubs because during WW2 the US army were based here and this caused problems for the players from this side of the parish to get to training so they set up another club in 1944, this new club caused this side of the parish to build it's own separate culture in a sense.
    https://imgur.com/1DxlBme


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  • #82
    Beechwoodspark
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 15,847 ✭✭✭✭Beechwoodspark


    If they give him on award on the RTÉ awards tonight there will be open mutiny


  • #83
    munster87
    Registered Users Posts: 4,304 ✭✭✭munster87


    Hope he gets young sportsperson just for you!


  • #84
    Fann Linn
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,818 ✭✭✭Fann Linn


    gaffer91 wrote: »
    Not pontificating, just stating facts. Sometime they get frustrated when these facts are mentioned though, it's true. Totally (and justifiably) takes the gloss off this Dublin team's achievements and instead places a big asterisk beside them.



    We'll just have to see if he can win games and titles with a team that isn't unfairly advantaged compared to every other one. Why are you so keen to ignore the platform that his successes have been built off?

    Going by your methodology Dessie Farrell will continue with another 5 All Irelands so.


  • #85
    Beechwoodspark
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 15,847 ✭✭✭✭Beechwoodspark


    munster87 wrote: »
    Hope he gets young sportsperson just for you!

    Why would he get young sportsperson? He’s pushing on for 50. Are you sure you are talking about the same guy.


  • #86
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 7,712 ✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    The more I look at it the more I think Gavin couldn’t be number one just yet. I’m a huge fan of his and a huge admirer of Dublin (anyone who says anything about money hasn’t watched any football in years) but when you look at what Micko did with bringing Kildare to an All Ireland final and winning Leinster with Laois after his great stint then it’s impossible to look past him. He even had Wicklow playing football in August one year. There may be something to be said for doing something with another county, not that I’d say Jim Gavin cares one iota about his legacy in that way, he’s a humble man.


  • #87
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    ReginaldSmythV wrote: »
    The more I look at it the more I think Gavin couldn’t be number one just yet. I’m a huge fan of his and a huge admirer of Dublin (anyone who says anything about money hasn’t watched any football in years) but when you look at what Micko did with bringing Kildare to an All Ireland final and winning Leinster with Laois after his great stint then it’s impossible to look past him. He even had Wicklow playing football in August one year. There may be something to be said for doing something with another county, not that I’d say Jim Gavin cares one iota about his legacy in that way, he’s a humble man.

    That's why Gavin is going to another county


  • #88
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 7,712 ✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    [Deleted User] wrote: »
    That's why Gavin is going to another county

    Jim Gavin will do his day job now and that’s it. He won’t be one bit worried about whether he’s best ever or tenth best ever.


  • #89
    Fann Linn
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,818 ✭✭✭Fann Linn


    Beechwoodspark wrote: »
    If they give him on award on the RTÉ awards tonight there will be open mutiny


    Time for mutiny X 2!


  • #90
    blanch152
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 28,304 ✭✭✭✭blanch152


    gaffer91 wrote: »
    I'm not being belligerent at all. This thread is discussing him resigning as Dublin manager and the legacy he leaves behind.

    Gavin has shown that with a team with massive funding advantages, de facto home advantage, a population that dwarfs the average, he can be successful. That shows he can win with those advantages but otherwise doesn't prove much. Many others would have been as successful when given such a stacked deck.

    You claiming that this success should be given as much respect as someone achieving success without ludicrous advantages is probably one of the most embarrassing things I have ever heard.



    Many managers go to other counties? :confused: For love of the game, because they're living there, for a new challenge and many other reasons besides.

    He doesn't have to prove himself to anonymous internet posters of course. But it's very true that we can't draw any real conclusions from his time in Dublin other than they he can be successful when completely advantaged compared to every other county. This doesn't mean he will be successful without these advantages.



    Grow up yourself and recognise that he and Dublin have been unfairly advantaged.

    Fermanagh is just an example. Other examples would be say, winning a Munster with Waterford, winning Connacht with London etc. There are literally countless other scenarios someone could think up besides these. The reason these successes can be deemed superior is because they wouldn't be coming from an unfairly advantaged position, like Gavin's to date have. Hope that helps.

    I don't use winning an All-Ireland as a barometer because the stacked deck will of course also apply to Gavin's successor- Dublin will continue to dominate without him because the advantages continue.


    What a silly begrudging post.

    A few things to consider. If Jim Gavin had managed Mayo for the last seven years, would that team have won zero All-Ireland’s? If he was managing Kerry this year, would the extra man have counted in the first game?

    Actually, no need to answer, it is clearly obvious.

    He is the best manager the game has seen, bar none. It is to his credit that we won’t see him following the money around the place managing other counties, sucking out their resources that should be used for juvenile coaching.


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  • #91
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 7,712 ✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    blanch152 wrote: »
    What a silly begrudging post.

    A few things to consider. If Jim Gavin had managed Mayo for the last seven years, would that team have won zero All-Ireland’s? If he was managing Kerry this year, would the extra man have counted in the first game?

    Actually, no need to answer, it is clearly obvious.

    He is the best manager the game has seen, bar none. It is to his credit that we won’t see him following the money around the place managing other counties, sucking out their resources that should be used for juvenile coaching.

    He’d have certainly knocked the superstar mentality out of Mayo.


  • #92
    spakman
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,137 ✭✭✭spakman


    ReginaldSmythV wrote: »
    He’d have certainly knocked the superstar mentality out of Mayo.

    But I thought Dublin were the greatest team of all time led by the greatest manager of all time?
    So how did big-headed, no-forwards, own-goal-scoring Mayo manage to only lose 2 finals to them by a point, once after a replay?
    If Gavin would have won an AI with Mayo, that means they had underperformed in those finals, which must mean they're actually a better team than the Dubs?


  • #93
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 7,712 ✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    spakman wrote: »
    But I thought Dublin were the greatest team of all time led by the greatest manager of all time?
    So how did big-headed, no-forwards, own-goal-scoring Mayo manage to only lose 2 finals to them by a point, once after a replay

    Lose is the only relevant word there.


  • #94
    spakman
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,137 ✭✭✭spakman


    ReginaldSmythV wrote: »
    Lose is the only relevant word there.

    But as I said, if you're saying Gavin would have won an AI with Mayo, that means they underperformed in those finals, which must mean they're actually a better team than the Dubs? If the manager is the only difference, then the Mayo players must be better.


  • #95
    gaffer91
    Registered Users Posts: 1,307 ✭✭✭gaffer91


    Fann Linn wrote: »
    Going by your methodology Dessie Farrell will continue with another 5 All Irelands so.

    I do expect Dublin to win the next five All-Ireland's for sure. Maybe if there is some freak result one year they may only win four, (very low possibility of this, winning the next five is much more likely) but definitely no less than that.
    blanch152 wrote: »
    What a silly begrudging post.

    A few things to consider. If Jim Gavin had managed Mayo for the last seven years, would that team have won zero All-Ireland’s? If he was managing Kerry this year, would the extra man have counted in the first game?

    Actually, no need to answer, it is clearly obvious.

    He is the best manager the game has seen, bar none. It is to his credit that we won’t see him following the money around the place managing other counties, sucking out their resources that should be used for juvenile coaching.

    There is a need to answer it because your argument is nonsense.

    The point I'm making is that it's impossible to separate the other unfair inputs into Dublin's success (funding, population, de facto home advantage) from Jim Gavin's own input into it. This is pretty easy to understand.

    It's impossible to judge him properly and there's no grounds for saying he is the best manager ever when you examine all the other factors that have gone into Dublin's success. The only conclusion that can be drawn is that when Jim Gavin is given a team with every unfair advantage under the sun, he can be successful. That doesn't mean he'd be as successful without these advantages. Pointing this out isn't begrudgery, it's just doing a fair and impartial analysis.


  • #96
    ProudDUB
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 11,569 ✭✭✭✭ProudDUB


    Jim Gavin is "given" a team with all kinds of advantages....like we were Leitrim in 2012, but Jim Gavin wrote a letter to Santa & hey presto, all these "advantages" that were never there before, magically appeared underneath the Christmas tree?

    Dublin have always:

    - had a massive population
    - had a conveyor belt of lads wanting to play football over hurling
    - played their games in Croke Park in the summer
    - had sponsors with very deep pockets
    - had players who live, work & study in Dublin & don't have 4 hour commutes to training
    - the best doctors, physios, nutritionists etc etc on their doorstep

    Yet Dublin only won one All Ireland in the nearly 30 years between the last All Ireland of the Heffo era & Pat Gilroy's win in 2011.

    Funny that, eh?


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  • #97
    ArielAtom
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,580 ✭✭✭ArielAtom


    Congrats Jim, well deserved.


  • #98
    gaffer91
    Registered Users Posts: 1,307 ✭✭✭gaffer91


    ProudDUB wrote: »
    Jim Gavin is "given" a team with all kinds of advantages....like we were Leitrim in 2012, but Jim Gavin wrote a letter to Santa & hey presto, all these "advantages" that were never there before, magically appeared underneath the Christmas tree?

    Dublin have always:

    - had a massive population
    - had a conveyor belt of lads wanting to play football over hurling
    - played their games in Croke Park in the summer
    - had sponsors with very deep pockets
    - had players who live, work & study in Dublin & don't have 4 hour commutes to training
    - the best doctors, physios, nutritionists etc etc on their doorstep

    Yet Dublin only won one All Ireland in the nearly 30 years between the last All Ireland of the Heffo era & Pat Gilroy's win in 2011.

    Funny that, eh?

    Thanks for acknowledging all those advantages above- very gracious of you. The massive funding discrepancy only started in the mid 2000s.

    Just because a team hasn't always taken full benefit of their many unfair advantages doesn't mean those weren't still advantages. The population, home advantage etc were always unfair even if they didn't win every year (still the second most successful county I might add).

    So this proves my point- Gavin can succeed when given a team with the unfair advantages you have listed. That's all his success proves. It's not generalisable in any way, as no other team has the unfair advantages that Dublin do.

    You can say that Gavin is a superior manager to Pat Gilroy as Gilroy wasn't as successful when given much the same advantages (although the funding flowing towards Dublin when Gilroy was in charge had been doing so for a shorter period of time when compared with Gavin so doing a side by side comparison is still difficult).


  • #99
    Beechwoodspark
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 15,847 ✭✭✭✭Beechwoodspark


    ReginaldSmythV wrote: »
    He’d have certainly knocked the superstar mentality out of Mayo.

    Doubt it considering how highly he regards the dubs setup. He’d have made mayo even more self regarding if anything.


  • #100
    ITman88
    Registered Users Posts: 876 ✭✭✭ITman88


    gaffer91 wrote: »
    I do expect Dublin to win the next five All-Ireland's for sure. Maybe if there is some freak result one year they may only win four, (very low possibility of this, winning the next five is much more likely) but definitely no less than that.
    I fully agree with this, in 5 years time when the Dubs have done another 4 or 5 in a row with Farrell, people will realize Gavin was no more exceptional than any other AI winning managers


  • #101
    blanch152
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 28,304 ✭✭✭✭blanch152


    spakman wrote: »
    But I thought Dublin were the greatest team of all time led by the greatest manager of all time?
    So how did big-headed, no-forwards, own-goal-scoring Mayo manage to only lose 2 finals to them by a point, once after a replay?
    If Gavin would have won an AI with Mayo, that means they had underperformed in those finals, which must mean they're actually a better team than the Dubs?

    Because the Mayo team has a losers mentality, and need a decent manager to change that mentality.

    We all know brilliant players who couldn't do it on a bigger stage than their own back garden, Mayo had their fill of that type.


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