Fiat Ducato camper build

colm_mcm · 25-10-2020 9:44pm

Buford T Justice wrote: »

I was looking back at your efforts fitting the skylights and I a saw you lucked out on the smaller one. You had to fit it over the ribs in the roof. What did you do to solve this one in terms of sealing it? Looks like I'll have to do the same in my build.

There are actually adaptors for the Ducato that fill the gaps left by the ribs.

It’s quite common to just build up a bed of Sikaflex in the lower parts of the roof, but the other fella I’m building this with found these. I’d say they’ll be a safer bet.

We both agree we would get a bigger rooflight up the front if we were doing it again. Involves a bit of chopping though.

25-10-2020 9:49pm

Ah those ribs...more folds/channels really. I thought yee were talking about the U/hat channel that's supporting the shell.

Buford T Justice · 25-10-2020 9:50pm

Sir Liamalot wrote: »

Don't cut the ribs. They're structural.

Unless you are willing to weld in a supporting frame move the skylight.

The ribs in the panelwork? Hardly.

I wouldn't cut the struts in the roof no, only the panel.

For want of a better phrase, between the joists

25-10-2020 9:50pm

Carry on!

IHateNewShoes · 01-11-2020 12:27pm

Can I ask an insurance question if you don't mind.

I'm looking at buying a van but having trouble getting it commercially insured with my own insurance company because of my profession. (Secondary school engineering teacher which I thought would warrant it)

Any suggestions for me? Either a company that will give me commercial insurance or any other option?

Thank you in advance!

roleary780 · 01-11-2020 2:08pm

IHateNewShoes wrote: »

Can I ask an insurance question if you don't mind.

I'm looking at buying a van but having trouble getting it commercially insured with my own insurance company because of my profession. (Secondary school engineering teacher which I thought would warrant it)

Any suggestions for me? Either a company that will give me commercial insurance or any other option?

Thank you in advance!

Had a similar issue to you myself and many others I’ve learnt, found it very difficult to get a quote for a commercial policy on the basis of my profession (Aviation) Axa were one of the ones who did quote until I told them I planned to convert the van, they then said I wouldn’t be covered.. any company that would quote wanted a small fortune.

IHateNewShoes · 01-11-2020 5:14pm

roleary780 wrote: »

Had a similar issue to you myself and many others I’ve learnt, found it very difficult to get a quote for a commercial policy on the basis of my profession (Aviation) Axa were one of the ones who did quote until I told them I planned to convert the van, they then said I wouldn’t be covered.. any company that would quote wanted a small fortune.

What sort of money were you quoted? If you didn't tell axa you were converting would it have been viable?

IHateNewShoes · 04-11-2020 10:44pm

Just to update this, I was able to get a someway reasonable quote with insuremyvan.ie. Would have been a lot cheaper if I had a no claims bonus but anyway. Sorry for hijacking. Loving the build

colm_mcm · 08-11-2020 12:43am

We did another few bits today

Installed soap dispenser for the kitchen sink

Fits nicely behind the drawer

No slumming it with bottles here

Made a shelf for the overhead kitchen cupboard and boxed off the rear of the light switch and some electrical gubbins

Test fitting some mock-up doors to make sure unit is fully square before the real doors are cut

The doors are gonna be cool

colm_mcm · 08-11-2020 6:43pm

Fitted a new threshold to the rear door. Much nicer than the old one

Few more light switches

And a bit of soldering to extend the cables going to the water heater

08-11-2020 8:37pm

Crimp don't solder. No OE manufacturer solders. Sure it works (before I start a blood feud) but it's not flexible nor vibration tolerant.
The tips don't last on that soldering iron. This one is really good for the price. Tips last years. It's a rebranded Atten.

Did I see NYMJ cable in a grey jacket by a cabinet?

I think I'll put foot switches on my taps. The manual jobbers are just not right but too conventional for anyone to admit it.

listermint · 08-11-2020 9:25pm

Sir Liamalot wrote: »

Crimp don't solder. No OE manufacturer solders. Sure it works (before I start a blood feud) but it's not flexible nor vibration tolerant.
The tips don't last on that soldering iron. This one is really good for the price. Tips last years. It's a rebranded Atten.

Did I see NYMJ cable in a grey jacket by a cabinet?

I think I'll put foot switches on my taps. The manual jobbers are just not right but too conventional for anyone to admit it.

I bought these. They are awesome used to solder and heat shrink but these make it so much easier.

https://www.amazon.co.uk/dp/B07V3QMR3T/ref=cm_sw_r_cp_apa_fabc_HpfQFb8YXYA0N?_encoding=UTF8&psc=1

I'd do either over crimping any day of the week. OE don't do it because of the time involved and manual effort that's all money.

08-11-2020 9:32pm

I'm running a mile from a solder versus crimp holy war.
I can do both, I've >€1k of soldering equipment. I crimp everthing on a vehicle that's not a circuit board or a solder terminal.

The foot switches can control solenoid valves, I think that and a pressure pump is the best way to do it. Yer link didn't show listermint.

crasy dash · 08-11-2020 9:59pm

Sir Liamalot wrote: »

Crimp don't solder. No OE manufacturer solders. Sure it works (before I start a blood feud) but it's not flexible nor vibration tolerant.
The tips don't last on that soldering iron. This one is really good for the price. Tips last years. It's a rebranded Atten.

Did I see NYMJ cable in a grey jacket by a cabinet?

I think I'll put foot switches on my taps. The manual jobbers are just not right but too conventional for anyone to admit it.

That looks like a nice bit of kit might have to treat myself any recommendations for some good solder I only have some rubbish stuff myself haha

colm_mcm · 08-11-2020 10:20pm

Sir Liamalot wrote: »

Crimp don't solder. No OE manufacturer solders. Sure it works (before I start a blood feud) but it's not flexible nor vibration tolerant.
The tips don't last on that soldering iron. This one is really good for the price. Tips last years. It's a rebranded Atten.

Did I see NYMJ cable in a grey jacket by a cabinet?

I think I'll put foot switches on my taps. The manual jobbers are just not right but too conventional for anyone to admit it.

For the use I have for a soldering iron, the one I have for the last few years will do fine for now.

The NYMJ is part of the Truma water heater system

Soldering has been kept to a minimum and the ones that are there are mechanically supported so will outlast me.

There are no switches for the pump in this one, there’s a pressure accumulator and a sensor in the pump

08-11-2020 10:47pm

crasy dash wrote: »

That looks like a nice bit of kit might have to treat myself any recommendations for some good solder I only have some rubbish stuff myself haha

It's a great unit (for the price). The heat-up time is super quick too. I use tin - lead solder (not rosin core). You can still get lead solder in the likes of radionics.

It's the flux is bad for you which lead-free solder has a higher content of. So arguably lead-free is unhealthier to work, flows shyte but is better in a landfill.

colm_mcm wrote: »

The NYMJ is part of the Truma water heater system

Not recommended practice, it's very low vibration tolerance. Building regs specify a thinly stranded flex. I see it all the time and it's fine most of the time, but I won't use it myself and it's frowned upon.

H07-RN is what you want (heavy duty grade 7, Rubber jacket, Neoprene insulant) , aka TRS (tough rubber shielded) and pond flex. Most elec .wholsalers will have it. It's tough enough to not require conduit.

08-11-2020 10:55pm

crasy dash wrote: »

any recommendations for some good solder

I've been using this the last year. It's pretty good. No spatter, flows nices, low melting temp. You'll probably want thicker than 0.5mm. I prefer small diameter for circuit boards. Anything high mass you'll be feeding a lot in.

colm_mcm · 08-11-2020 11:05pm

Sir Liamalot wrote: »

It's a great unit (for the price). The heat-up time is super quick too. I use tin - lead solder (not rosin core). You can still get lead solder in the likes of radionics.

It's the flux is bad for you which lead-free solder has a higher content of. So arguably lead-free is unhealthier to work, flows shyte but is better in a landfill.

Not recommended practice, it's very low vibration tolerance. Building regs specify a thinly stranded flex. I see it all the time and it's fine most of the time, but I won't use it myself and it's frowned upon.

H07-RN is what you want (heavy duty grade 7, Rubber jacket, Neoprene insulant) , aka TRS (tough rubber shielded) and pond flex. Most elec .wholsalers will have it. It's tough enough to not require conduit.

Sorry, I’ve got my terminology wrong, it’s not actually NYM-J
what you’re looking at is the grey cable that came with the Truma system.

08-11-2020 11:22pm

Thought not, the roundy white one looks like the mains. Still best not get carried away with solid core.
I can't understand it myself. Solid core + conduit costs more time and money than HD flex that's rugged on it's own. Sparkies always claim it's cheaper cable.
NYMJ is cement proof....

Actually I've seen PVC jacket insulation being attacked by that filled ball insulation they're injecting into house cavity walls). Something to be aware of because all that (over-spec-ed, under-coppered) thin-wall automotive is PVC jacket.

colm_mcm · 08-11-2020 11:38pm

There’s no solid core cable there, it’s all stranded.

Thanks for the tip ref the insulation, we’ve ran all the wiring within conduits and didn’t get the walls pumped so we’re safe enough

I’ve seen wiring that’s been attacked by insulation beads before, scary stuff.

The roundy white cable is indeed mains, but is also part of the truma system - it turns on the electric water heater instead of the gas.

08-11-2020 11:46pm

Electric water heating you say? They come in 12V too.

colm_mcm · 08-11-2020 11:50pm

Sir Liamalot wrote: »

Electric water heating you say? They come in 12V too.

The electric is just to save using the gas when hooked up, don’t worry there’ll be some 12v goodness going on soon, you’ll probably vomit a bit when you see it though

09-11-2020 12:01am

Ah well, I build live-aboard electrics not week-enders. There's a big differencea, a lottov people can't justify spending more on the electrics than the vehicle is worth. We're all different. Throwing a battery at it every coupla years is often an affordable solution.

I'm thinking of colorifier, 24v element with solar excess diversion, hydronic underfloor, recirculating shower, hydronic diesel heater and engine coolant feed. Ah the joys ova 7.5ton base vehicle.

The battery alone is a quarter ton.

colm_mcm · 14-11-2020 8:30pm

Finished the last recessed LED strip today.

Just in case anyone’s planning on doing these at some point, here’s how I do them

Router out the slot for the aluminium frame, I usually just clamp something to the piece on both ends and use a palm router. Depth for this one is 7mm.

For the LED strips, you can use domestic ones that run off a 12v transformer, just chop the transformer off. Usually these strips can be cut to length too at various points along the strip.

Stick the strip to the amuninium housing, they’re usually self-adhesive

Drill a hole through the plywood to run the cable through. In this case i routered a slot too for the cable ro run to the right, the cable will sit in the aluminium corner profile and run through to the fridge cabinet

Last thing is to mount the light frame to the plywood, I use epoxy resin for this

Wiring then runs to a junction box and to switch etc.

14-11-2020 9:02pm

colm_mcm wrote: »

For the LED strips, you can use domestic ones that run off a 12v transformer, just chop the transformer off.

I buy high density, high CRI, super cheap 12v Chinese jobbers by the geansaí load.

I get the trunking for €3 per meter off amazon.

14-11-2020 9:07pm

These dimmers are super cheap too.

5787278f5c1d4668ee929979-large.jpg?cache_buster=ea09851716c83fd4bf72609bb07b4508

They're a little whiney if you're frequency sensitive.

I take the gubbins out and put them in posh(er) boxes.

colm_mcm · 14-11-2020 9:12pm

Nice!
We have the CBE dimmer (top left of pic) fitted that feeds a pair of 2 gang 2 way switches at either end of the van. these control the 4 LED strips on the skylights,

It doesn’t give any issues with noise, or any flashing of the LEDs

For the under cabinet lighting, they’ll be used when extra lighting is needed, and aren’t overly bright anyway so we won’t be using dimmers for them.

colm_mcm · 14-11-2020 9:22pm

Sir Liamalot wrote: »

I buy high density, high CRI, super cheap 12v Chinese jobbers by the geansaí load.

I get the trunking for €3 per meter off amazon.

That’s probably where we should have got the LEDs but they were pretty cheap in Lidl and we could try the colour out in person.

The aluminium housings were tricky enough to get with a lip hiding the recess, have you a link for the ones you get?

14-11-2020 9:48pm

I use normal house switches, Varilight do some right posh woody ones.

Trunking here.

colm_mcm · 14-11-2020 10:16pm

I think domestic switches and plugs just look out of place in campers.

The trunking is certainly cheaper on Amazon! I rather the ones that have a bit of an overlap though, they’re a bit harder to get. We got the one I fitted today online, the others from B&Q (they’ve since stopped doing them)

14-11-2020 10:37pm

colm_mcm wrote: »

I think domestic switches and plugs just look out of place in campers.

:pac: I hear that about batteries, fridges, hobs, solar panels, chargers and power supplies all the time. Why buy a €100 piece of kit when the €700 camper one will match the magazine.

Cheap, standard size, ubiquitous and proven. Sure they're not art. I do like the toggle woody ones though.

I had a cheaper source on Amazon but it seems to have dried up. It's very light ali, doesn't need to be stronger but you do get what you pay for. The Irish wholesalers are charging €10 per meter...that's madness.

colm_mcm · 14-11-2020 10:48pm

Sir Liamalot wrote: »

:pac: I hear that about batteries, fridges, hobs, solar panels, chargers and power supplies all the time. Why buy a €100 piece of kit when the €700 camper one will match the magazine.
.

There’s definitely an element of that around. There are huge variations in price out there.

14-11-2020 11:02pm

310W "domestic" solar panel: €100
150W "12 volt" solar panel: €200

the fridges are madness.

Camper fridge = domestic fridge + big inverter.

My dometic gas hob grills are rusty steel.
€600 unit and they still didn't use stainless.

I could go on, especially about the "power" electronics but l'll save for a rainy day.

colm_mcm · 14-11-2020 11:19pm

Sir Liamalot wrote: »

310W "domestic" solar panel: €100
150W "12 volt" solar panel: €200
.

Yep, we copped that

That said, there’s more to a camper fridge than you’re making out. You won’t run an inverter and a standard domestic fridge on anything like what some of the modern 12v ones will run on.
I have seen some guys converting fridges and claiming some great efficiencies, I and most other DIYers wouldn’t have the skills to do something like that.

Sir Liamalot wrote: »

I could go on, especially about the "power" electronics but l'll save for a rainy day.

You’ve been remarkably quiet about that!

14-11-2020 11:26pm

I've seen people complain they're too big!! then spend €120 on a 50W job instead. :eek::rolleyes:

Now if you use a 50W panel with PWM it's a 40W panel.

You haveta use MPPT with 60 cell panels and larger but at least then you can use all of the panel. Oh and that's the list price. I can get them for as low as €65 when they're a little dinged from literally falling off the back of a truck or being old end of palette stock.

14-11-2020 11:44pm

colm_mcm wrote: »

That said, there’s more to a camper fridge than you’re making out. You won’t run an inverter and a standard domestic fridge on anything like what some of the modern 12v ones will run on.

That's probably due to the inverter efficiency. Some are woeful.
A++ fridges are more efficient than danfoss.
I've a loada Studer inverters and their efficiency, specifically the quiescent is excellent. So I might haveta prove it to you...:P

I'm sure the fridge data is true^
Ironically I've tested their inverter quiescent and it's absolutely dire.

colm_mcm wrote: »

I have seen some guys converting fridges and claiming some great efficiencies, I and most other DIYers wouldn’t have the skills to do something like that.

My 12V jobber is 15Ah per day after I insulated it with "car insulation", used the fan terminals on the unit to drive 4 x 120mm condenser cooling fans and atmospherically vented it.

I bought it used so the saving was a moot point.

colm_mcm wrote: »

You’ve been remarkably quiet about that!

I reckoned

A: You've heard me say it all before

& B: Don't Care :pac:

I finished building this today;

Portable Mains/Solar Hybrid Charger
4kW Solar capable
2kW Mains Capable
9V > 72V Battery Voltage Compatible inclusive.
Load Compensating 4 Stage Charger

Current Limited 60A
Passive Cooling
Remote Battery Sense
Remote Temperature Sense with compensation.
Fully programmable
Data logging.

I'd say I'm ~€350 + 3 days into it.
I don't think you can buy a better one. :cool:

Kramer · 15-11-2020 10:30pm

Sir Liamalot wrote: »

I finished building this today;

What's the IP rating? 67 or 68?

Only joking :P.

Great thread with lots of tips & advice.

15-11-2020 11:21pm

Go price a comparable one...p-sah :P

IP put it in a box...

colm_mcm · 20-11-2020 11:05pm

Now for something completely different

We had this birch plywood veneered a few weeks ago, I love birch ply, and the gloss veneer will hopefully reflect the light and make the interior feel more airy.
There were hundreds of shades to choose from, but it was relatively easy for us to agree on one. This still has the protective plastic on. The one on the left shows the front side of the sheet.

My mate knows someone with a CNC router, so this really saved us a lot of time

colm_mcm · 21-11-2020 7:14pm

Still has plastic on but you get the idea!

colm_mcm · 21-11-2020 9:51pm

Made a start on the kitchen unit too

Buford T Justice · 21-11-2020 9:55pm

Nice work with the CNC - handy out

colm_mcm · 22-11-2020 3:57pm

More of the same

colm_mcm · 26-11-2020 10:52pm

We added this gutter/LED light tonight

colm_mcm · 27-11-2020 8:49pm

Awning support brackets finally in

Buford T Justice · 04-12-2020 1:17pm

What thickness quinn therm did you end up using for the insulation?

colm_mcm · 04-12-2020 3:29pm

Buford T Justice wrote: »

What thickness quinn therm did you end up using for the insulation?

25mm for walls and roof

colm_mcm · 04-12-2020 11:27pm

Whipped up a couple of brackets from 40mm angle

Gave the roof a clean

The astute amongst you will know what’s happening next!

Buford T Justice · 05-12-2020 1:16am

colm_mcm wrote: »

Whipped up a couple of brackets from 40mm angle

Gave the roof a clean

The astute amongst you will know what’s happening next!

Van wash?

New paint job?

no....wait a roofbox!

Buford T Justice · 05-12-2020 1:36am

colm_mcm wrote: »

Finished the last recessed LED strip today.

Just in case anyone’s planning on doing these at some point, here’s how I do them

Router out the slot for the aluminium frame, I usually just clamp something to the piece on both ends and use a palm router. Depth for this one is 7mm.

For the LED strips, you can use domestic ones that run off a 12v transformer, just chop the transformer off. Usually these strips can be cut to length too at various points along the strip.

Stick the strip to the amuninium housing, they’re usually self-adhesive

Drill a hole through the plywood to run the cable through. In this case i routered a slot too for the cable ro run to the right, the cable will sit in the aluminium corner profile and run through to the fridge cabinet

Last thing is to mount the light frame to the plywood, I use epoxy resin for this

Wiring then runs to a junction box and to switch etc.

What kelvin is the LED strip you used?

Fiat Ducato camper build

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