Age to start school

mirrorwall14 · 10-04-2019 8:26am

jlm29 wrote: »

Lots of people did this I think. Even this year, with the September start, but the earlier birthday, I know people who are paying for preschool for year one, getting a free year for year two and sending kids to national school at 4.5. I think the only way it will ever change fully is if the schools actually make it policy and the DoE decides where the cut off should be and enforce it

I agree tbh. I mean both schools I was applying for automatically put him down for when he was 4 years rather than 5 years. I had made that decision anyways but if you hadn’t been paying attention that’s when they’d have started

Triangle · 10-04-2019 8:29am

Tiredandcranky wrote: »

Looking for a bit of advice, maybe from some parents who have been in a similar situation.

My DS will be 4 1/2 this September and we don’t know whether to start him in school this year or next.

I’m not trying to boast or anything, but he is extremely bright. His preschool teacher said his level of ability in language etc is exceptional. Socially he’s pretty capable i.e. he likes playing with other kids. However, he can be quite cranky, and irritable at times e.g. . So, I’d imagine he won’t be the most popular child. But my hunch is that’s just his personality and a year won’t change it.

I’ve read all the stuff about kids being better off starting school later rather than sooner. But my question is, does that necessarily apply to a very bright child? Would they perhaps be better starting school earlier? We are so good to soak up information when we are young, is it better to keep a child challenged in terms of learning.

I don’t try to teach him anything at home. But recently he’s started taking an interest in words and alphabet, and wants to start writing letters by himself. He can also count objects very well up to about 20. Looking at the junior infants curriculum, it only has counting to 5.... does this mean school will be very dull for him? I loved school and learning always, and I want him to find the same joy in it.

His preschool is excellent by the way, but it’s obviously very play based with little emphasis on formal learning. I’m just afraid if we hold him back that he’ll be bored next year, and he won’t get to take advantage of those precious early years when you can develop a real love of learning.

Any advice/ comments welcome?
We’re very confused and undecided!!

Thanks

Definatley the older (within reason!) the better. My 16 yo son is the eldest in transition year and it's definitely benefited him. My brother was the youngest and had to stay back a year. Both were born around august/september.

shesty · 10-04-2019 10:38am

soc wrote: »

Our DD is May baby. She turned 4 in 2017, and started Junior Infants the end of Aug/beg September (she was around 4years 3.5months). She's the youngest of 4 children, and was so eager to start Big School, that the transition for her was easy. Academically she was ahead for her age in preschool, and I knew she would get bored if she stayed another year there, and that could affect her going forward, as she'd just expect every grade after that to be super easy. I knew, she was ready for Big School, as personality wise she's a social butterfly, and academically we knew she was well prepared (she's similar to your fella), plus she was hounding us to go! She's now in Senior Infants, and will be turning 6 in May, and still enjoys school & her friends.

So surprised at this, she wouldn't have been let into schools where we are with a May birthday.

Cakerbaker · 10-04-2019 11:12am

I’ve a feb baby and have decided to wait till he’s gone 5 for a number of reasons. He’s only going to be young once so I want to let him have another year to just play. Socially I’d prefer him be on the older side. Same for sports. Also, down the line when he’s a bit older I don’t want to be always having to say he can’t do the things his older friends are doing so from that point of view I’d prefer he be one of the older ones. I don’t even mean things like going out but being able to walk home from school on their own / hang out at weekends etc. Plus I think being a bit older when making decisions on subjects to study for the leaving cert / what courses to apply for in college won’t hurt.

Plus I think that with the way things are going with social media etc the maturity that an extra year could bring may be of benefit.

While a lot of children seem to be older due to the 2 year ecce, I’ve been told by my crèche that a lot of kids in their care are heading to school at 4 to 5 rather than 5 to 6 as crèche is still expensive even with the ecce funding taken off the monthly payments. For us it does mean our son may see some of his friends move on without him but I’m sure he’ll make new ones.

shesty · 10-04-2019 11:35am

To be honest, a few from my little one's playschool class moved on last year, and she managed it.

Mine are April, May and June babies and they will all be waiting til they are 5 before they go, regardless of their abilities.However I do think January is definitely a very borderline month, it can be a tough one to call.

rainbow kirby · 10-04-2019 1:22pm

I have February and March babies. Because we live in the UK I have to start them at 4 1/2 as the law here states that children must be in school the term after their 5th birthday. I suspect my older boy may struggle a little - he has just turned 3 and is a little immature for his age.

Neyite · 10-04-2019 4:33pm

It will probably depend on the child. Ours we felt was better suited to going a couple of months after his 5th birthday, but I know parents who sent their daughter in at barely 4 as she was raring to go and she is now thriving.

The age at which they sit exams as teens is a consideration. Granted you don't want them being 19 doing the Leaving but you don't want them doing it at 16 either (which happened a lad I went to school with as he turned 17 during the summer)

pwurple · 10-04-2019 4:55pm

Free year? Lads, it's still 800-900 per month, and more in the summer. It's 3 hours a day. None of the ECCE places around here let them in for jsut that amount, you've to top up to more hours, whether you take them or not.

Free year. It's €10,000 euro a year, pretty far from what I consider free!

tscul32 · 10-04-2019 5:01pm

Plenty of preschools around where I am that you just drop off at beginning of session and collect at end and there's no charge.

Anne_cordelia · 10-04-2019 5:30pm

tscul32 wrote: »

Plenty of preschools around where I am that you just drop off at beginning of session and collect at end and there's no charge.

Me too. I haven’t paid a cent for either of mine.

jlm29 · 10-04-2019 5:34pm

Anne_cordelia wrote: »

Me too. I haven’t paid a cent for either of mine.

Neither have I. There’s only one preschool that I know of in our area that charges extra (for the books she told me!?!?!?). There also seems to be a lot of stay at home parents, of the children in my class, so they’re obviously not thinking about crèche fees.

catrionanic · 10-04-2019 8:06pm

My first boy is late Jan, and we are leaning towards starting him at 5.5. He is grand academically, but it's all the other reasons outlined by other posters which make me think that later would be better. I also don't like the idea of him starting at 4.5 amongst many children who are almost 6. It would be like putting him at a disadvantage from the very start.

shesty · 10-04-2019 10:19pm

You'd want to look into that pwurple, we pay 70eur a month top up for equipment and they do a 16 hour week(and we are happy to do that for ours).All the others in the area are free.It's nowhere near 800-900 a month.

cyning · 10-04-2019 10:42pm

shesty wrote: »

You'd want to look into that pwurple, we pay 70eur a month top up for equipment and they do a 16 hour week(and we are happy to do that for ours).All the others in the area are free.It's nowhere near 800-900 a month.

It’s a free year of playschool but I presume Pwurple is saying she’s paying €800/€900 for full time child care: it’s not a free year where parents are both working.

I have to pay my Childminder for a full day there’s no reduction for ECCE hours.

lazygal · 10-04-2019 10:44pm

pwurple wrote: »

Free year? Lads, it's still 800-900 per month, and more in the summer. It's 3 hours a day. None of the ECCE places around here let them in for jsut that amount, you've to top up to more hours, whether you take them or not.

Free year. It's €10,000 euro a year, pretty far from what I consider free!

Not the case in any preschool here.

Op my two started school at 5 and 5.5 years. Mainly for social coping abilities. The academic side wasn't on our priority list, coping with a larger number of peers, playtime in a large yard etc were better at an older age.

Pawwed Rig · 10-04-2019 10:59pm

I had this issue with our lad. He was born in March and we agonised as to whether to send him at 4.5 or wait. He was definitely smart enough at that age but maybe slightly immature. Personally I was 5and 3 months when I started and was bored out of my mind for the whole of primary school.
We stressed for months and eventually asked the advice of the crèche owner. She reckoned he was ready so that made the decision easier.
There has been a couple of issues since he started last Sept but overall it has worked out and he seems to be happy and performing well. He isn't the youngest in his class either.

I am with purple on the ecce. All it did was reduce our fees from €1000 per month to €720. Irritates me hearing politicians describe it as free year.

mirrorwall14 · 11-04-2019 2:18am

Pawwed Rig wrote: »

I had this issue with our lad. He was born in March and we agonised as to whether to send him at 4.5 or wait. He was definitely smart enough at that age but maybe slightly immature. Personally I was 5and 3 months when I started and was bored out of my mind for the whole of primary school.
We stressed for months and eventually asked the advice of the crèche owner. She reckoned he was ready so that made the decision easier.
There has been a couple of issues since he started last Sept but overall it has worked out and he seems to be happy and performing well. He isn't the youngest in his class either.

I am with purple on the ecce. All it did was reduce our fees from €1000 per month to €720. Irritates me hearing politicians describe it as free year.

We got no reduction at all from the childminder. And not a heck of a lot on crèche this year either. Though having said that it’s only a 90e monthly reduction next year when he goes from ECCE to school

salmocab · 11-04-2019 2:28am

Pawwed Rig wrote: »

I am with purple on the ecce. All it did was reduce our fees from €1000 per month to €720. Irritates me hearing politicians describe it as free year.

The crèche has to pass on the cost of the ecce saving to you, it’s a 2 free years of pre school not a free year of childcare. The classes have to conform to certain structures.

Cakerbaker · 11-04-2019 8:04am

Ive lost count of the number of people who’ve told me that it’ll be great that we’ll have free crèche care for my son in sept as he’s now 3. I then have to explain that it’s not free crèche care, it’ll work out at a slight reduction in very high crèche fees. It’s not even the full ecce amount of a reduction every month as ecce only runs for 38 weeks so it’ll be about 200 less a month when you spread it over the 12 months.

shesty · 11-04-2019 8:36am

cyning wrote: »

It’s a free year of playschool but I presume Pwurple is saying she’s paying €800/€900 for full time child care: it’s not a free year where parents are both working.

I have to pay my Childminder for a full day there’s no reduction for ECCE hours.

We are both working.We still have to pay the minder.But if you were to pay to send them to playschool and the minder, it would cost even more.Honestly mine are mostly only going because it's free, I wouldn't really bother sending them otherwise, or at least certainly not for two years.It's most definitely not a free year in terms of childcare, but at this stage I view the childminder money as already spent, for a short enough period of my life, and we just have to live with it.I suppose playschool also gives my minder a bit of a break, in that she doesn't have to mind three under five all day everyday.

Politicians describing it as free care clearly don't have kids or are not looking after the childcare bills in their houses.

davidmichaels · 11-04-2019 8:47am

In my opinion and according to articles that i have read majority of them suggest (including me) that best age is after 5 years, because in those 5 years kids need your attention more than the schooling.

lazygal · 11-04-2019 9:14am

shesty wrote: »

We are both working.We still have to pay the minder.But if you were to pay to send them to playschool and the minder, it would cost even more.Honestly mine are mostly only going because it's free, I wouldn't really bother sending them otherwise, or at least certainly not for two years.It's most definitely not a free year in terms of childcare, but at this stage I view the childminder money as already spent, for a short enough period of my life, and we just have to live with it.I suppose playschool also gives my minder a bit of a break, in that she doesn't have to mind three under five all day everyday.

Politicians describing it as free care clearly don't have kids or are not looking after the childcare bills in their houses.

This is my thinking too. I have to and want to work so childcare needs to be paid for. As much as we all would like more assistance with it, in Ireland right now childcare mainly comes from our after tax income and we all know there are weeks over the summer and winter where schools are closed and children have to be cared for. The intense costs don't last forever, it's worth it for me to be able to stay in the workforce.

cyning · 11-04-2019 9:44am

shesty wrote: »

We are both working.We still have to pay the minder.But if you were to pay to send them to playschool and the minder, it would cost even more.Honestly mine are mostly only going because it's free, I wouldn't really bother sending them otherwise, or at least certainly not for two years.It's most definitely not a free year in terms of childcare, but at this stage I view the childminder money as already spent, for a short enough period of my life, and we just have to live with it.I suppose playschool also gives my minder a bit of a break, in that she doesn't have to mind three under five all day everyday.

Politicians describing it as free care clearly don't have kids or are not looking after the childcare bills in their houses.

Ah it would definitely: we wouldn’t have been able to afford minder and preschool. My youngest for the next 6 weeks

is going into school in Sept but will then have 1 baby and 2 in school: it’s just the cost of working. I think the 2 ECCE years are great... ideally the gov would look at tax credits or similar for 5 and under to support either those who want to work or those who want to stay at home but can’t see it ever happening.

11-04-2019 9:48am

My oldest started at four and a half and was grand. Being the oldest child, she was mature enough. The next one was six but needed the extra year.

11-04-2019 9:51am

cyning wrote: »

Ah it would definitely: we wouldn’t have been able to afford minder and preschool. My youngest for the next 6 weeks is going into school in Sept but will then have 1 baby and 2 in school: it’s just the cost of working. I think the 2 ECCE years are great... ideally the gov would look at tax credits or similar for 5 and under to support either those who want to work or those who want to stay at home but can’t see it ever happening.

I like your suggestion of tax credits. Personally, I think that they should be for all children until they finish college. Working parents need to be supported more.

Neyite · 11-04-2019 9:52am

pwurple wrote: »

Free year? Lads, it's still 800-900 per month, and more in the summer. It's 3 hours a day. None of the ECCE places around here let them in for jsut that amount, you've to top up to more hours, whether you take them or not.

Free year. It's €10,000 euro a year, pretty far from what I consider free!

It reduced ours by a few hundred a month - very welcome, but I was still forking out nearly 500 a month to top it up to cover the full time care. Far from free. Our creche was great in that they spread the allowance over the whole year for full time attendance so I didn't have a jump in costs outside of term time.

The people who describe it as free are the ones lucky enough to have a creche who do offer the three hours a day (a lot have brought in their own 'rules' in order to get a place) and only need the three hours a day during term time.

shesty · 11-04-2019 3:37pm

[Deleted User] wrote: »

I like your suggestion of tax credits. Personally, I think that they should be for all children until they finish college. Working parents need to be supported more.

It would be the ideal but the only way I would see it working would be an option between increased children's allowance or tax credits, or an idea like that.The idea that one parent stays at home seems to still be a very strong one in Government policies towards children (except in Revenue where they assume we all work and pay tax).So there would have to be something to balance it out for stay at home parents, in order for it to get traction politically.

If there was a roll eye icon on the mobile Boards site, it would be inserted here......

Lackey · 12-04-2019 12:04pm

Jan is a tough call
But I agree that you look at the finish line not the start.
From my area and others I know of, most kids are 18/19 finishing school going to college/apprenticeship etc so have most of the 18ths happening in around 5th year/summer before 6th year (with TY which is mostly popular now)
What age group do you want them hanging out with?
Will they be on the same age sports team as their classmates or the year below?
Maybe ask around your area and your chosen secondary school, what are the average ages where you are? That might help guide you.

gnf_ireland · 12-04-2019 12:16pm

Neyite wrote: »

It reduced ours by a few hundred a month - very welcome, but I was still forking out nearly 500 a month to top it up to cover the full time care. Far from free.

I have just been come out of the creche system and my two are now in school. The infant cycle is 4 hours 40 minutes per day, so slightly longer than the ECCE period, so cover is still required after school and on holidays. Depending on the time your child's school starts, cover may also be required for drop-offs in the morning.

I can assume you that childcare was easier when they were in creche, albeit more expensive. However, I now start work later and have to work later as a result of school drop-offs. If I had to pay someone to do that for me, I think it would be similar priced to previous...

Just to emphasize, you are not comparing like with like. ECCE does not provide full time care, and neither does a school. This 500 euro a month is unlikely to disappear when they start school

gnf_ireland · 12-04-2019 12:28pm

OP, it is a really tough one and really does depend on the school and class. Can you find out the age profiles of children in the current junior Infants?

For example, in our school (South Dublin), the 2018 starters ranged from March 2013 to April 2014. There was 1 April 2014, 1 March 2014 and 3 February 2014's in the class of 27 (2 classes of JI, but no idea what the other half set-up is and they were split alphabetically on their surname). On the other side, there was 1 March 2013 and 2 April 2013 children.

The year before (2017 starters), they ranged from May 2012 to April 2013. There was 1 May 2012, 2 June 2012 and 6 July 2012 in a class of 32. On the other side there was 3 March 2013 and 2 April 2013.

In 2016 (before the second ECCE year came in), the age distribution was from June 2011 to July 2012, with 4 students between June & July 2012, from a 'double' class of 49. There were 13 younger than mid-February 2012 in the class.

I know the details as I have children in both Senior Infants and Junior Infants in the school.

What is clearly seen is a pattern changed from children ranging from June-July to one from March-April since the second ECCE year came in. If the child was born after 31st March, I would not consider sending them, and in reality I would really question after 28th February. Mine youngest is early February and I can see her 'immaturity' compared to the ones the year older. She is getting on fine at school, but there is still a level of immaturity there in comparison to some of the others.

gnf_ireland · 12-04-2019 12:37pm

NashD wrote: »

I would prefer her to be one of the older kids in her group. Someone pointed out to me recently that starting her at 4.5 could mean she is starting with almost 6 years olds and down the line I think that could potentially mean she is more innocent and naive and easily swayed. But who knows! Right now she is a tough cookie and the boss in her class.

My husband is on the other side of the fence, leaving her until 5.5 years would mean she is in her preschool class for 3 years and has probably had to see all her buddies heading off to school without her. He thinks she will be bored and should start school at 4.5 years. I don't think boredom is enough of a merit though... I mean what happens if she is bored in 3rd class or 2nd year...

We were in a similar situation with our older one, where all her friends in creche were going to school, including some younger than her and we did not consider sending her. She was a May child and said it was too young. We decided to move her from a creche to a separate preschool and was fantastic in that she done different things with different people and got to grow in maturity during it. She is the eldest in her class though.

The younger one is a February baby and we had a tough call to make. In some ways we wanted to hold her back but we knew a May baby was the eldest the year before, so a February baby would be a total outlier. She is a very different child though and mentally is very independent minded (stubborn in other words), to the extreme. Whereas the older one would be swayed easily, the second one would not. We made the call to send her, and as I said in a previous post, her immaturity does show at times (especially on play dates and the likes).

Academically she is fine - she had listed to the older one do homework all year and knew most of her jolly phonics sounds etc etc. But that is only part of the infants cycle, and its not about counting to 20 etc. Its about applying this in the environment they are in.

I would also have said she would have bossed the place around, but its very different in reality. A year makes a massive difference at that age, and I see the older ones are the ones who tend to be the 'leaders' in general

Peppery · 12-04-2019 12:42pm

I think there are arguments for both and, as you say, whatever decision you make will end up being the right decision!

I would recommend that you think about social aspects more than academic however. I have taught infants and it's all about the social skills! Like other posters have said, most (I would say all given the right opportunities at home) children are bright and soak up learning. There will be one or two who are excelling academically at the end of the year but I have never seen a child bored in infants because they find the work easy. It's up to the teacher to challenge with extra reading and other work if necessary but the focus in infants is learning through play, hands-on activities, oral language development and socialising. The children who are bored at school are children who are not ready for school socially - they can be very bright but if they aren't mature enough to handle the large numbers, the noise, the yard, putting on/taking off various clothing, lining up, listening to other children and eating independently, then they can find primary school stressful.

goldlocks10 · 13-04-2019 12:13pm

I sent to school when 5.Feb baby. There was a fight in the playground and it really upset her. So I can only guess how bad it would have been if she was younger going to school.

byhookorbycrook · 14-04-2019 8:00pm

Primary teacher here. I would keep him . Yes, he sounds well up academically, but you mention that he can be cranky etc- that's often down to not being able to cope properly with all the social demands around him. He will be going from a small adult/child ratio to one where it may be 30 children to 1 adult. A good preschool will ensure that he won't be bored.

"Keeping a child back a class" has been shown to have very negative effects on a child and in any case, the DES are really clamping down on this- immaturity isn't considered as an acceptable reason to do so.

Chocolate fiend · 17-04-2019 2:57am

I am in Australia and here children have to be in school by the time they are 6, there is still an 18 month (or more sometimes) disparity in the classroom but I am very glad that I kept my daughter until she was about to turn 6. She is in her second year now and doing really well. I fully believe that the time we had together cannot be replicated at any other point in their lives, we spent the year before school doing so much fun (free) stuff and while she would have been ready for school the year before she was very ready when she started and never looked back. Some of the younger children seem to struggle more with being apart from their parents or sitting still for any length of time. She went in and loved the rules from day one.

RentDayBlues · 18-04-2019 11:50am

Our feb baby is going to start this September - she turned 5 this February just gone.

The school she's going to is oversubscribed so she didn't get in last year, meaning the decision was out of our hands. I am so grateful it was, with hindsight!

16 from her Montessori class started last September so I thought she'd be devastated, she couldn't have cared less! Kids are so adaptable, parents are the ones who worry.

This extra year in Montessori has been the making of her. Had she started last September she'd have survived it - but now I can see that starting at 5.5 she'll thrive! She's already reading and doing what most of the JI are doing anyway but she'll have the advantage of being the eldest, being in class with girls who are the same age for sports etc. My eldest is July and some of her friends were 4 starting and you can see the difference.

Prior to our situation I would always have been pro sending them at 4.5 but I know that the right decision was made for us. She's not bored in Montessori, they have worked around her - they are trained to educate up to 12 years in most cases

Age to start school

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