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Rats burrowing into compost bin

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    #92
    smacl
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 15,722 Mod ✭✭✭✭smacl


    Graces7 wrote: »
    This is a small island.

    My father had a small island on Lough Corrib where there was a big rat problem. He set traps every night and emptied them each morning for a month and it didn't make much difference. The problem turned out that he was keeping chickens and the rats were after the food. He got rid of the chickens and the rats left of their own accord. Apparently you'd see them migrating from island to island en-masse every now and again as one food source became exhausted and they went looking for the next one.

    I think they can breed to meet the available food source very quickly, so in that scenario either removing the food source or introducing a predator makes sense. There used to be a fair population of stoats in Ireland at one point that served as a natural predator in rural areas but not sure if this is still the case.


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    #93
    Graces7
    Registered Users Posts: 32,634 ✭✭✭✭Graces7


    smacl wrote: »
    My father had a small island on Lough Corrib where there was a big rat problem. He set traps every night and emptied them each morning for a month and it didn't make much difference. The problem turned out that he was keeping chickens and the rats were after the food. He got rid of the chickens and the rats left of their own accord. Apparently you'd see them migrating from island to island en-masse every now and again as one food source became exhausted and they went looking for the next one.

    I think they can breed to meet the available food source very quickly, so in that scenario either removing the food source or introducing a predator makes sense. There used to be a fair population of stoats in Ireland at one point that served as a natural predator in rural areas but not sure if this is still the case.

    some wonderful images... Nothing for them here but abundance up the lanes.. Maybe my cats who roam free will sort the lot out!

    Odd as until a few years ago there was a serious cat problem on the island. I was quizzed when I arrived re whether my cats were fixed. only a couple of other cats here now. Maddening thing is that the man who organised the purge kept HIS tom entire as did one other resident.. as there are no entire females why should they pay.to get them fixed..

    wonder what impact mink have had on the rat population in Ireland?


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    #94
    kylith
    Registered Users Posts: 17,736 ✭✭✭✭kylith


    magicbastarder wrote: »
    i'm genuinely curious as to why they 'rescue' them so?

    Because the option is often either trap, neuter, and rehome as farmyard ratters or euthanasia. Feral cat colonies are generally unwelcome in urban areas but can be a boon on a farm.


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    #95
    ytpe2r5bxkn0c1
    Closed Accounts Posts: 32,688 ✭✭✭✭ytpe2r5bxkn0c1


    Brussels Sprout wrote: »
    A month ago I got a compost bin for my organic waste which I have sitting on a raised bed. In retrospect the surrounding area was not very level. Last week I noticed that there were some burrow-holes leading into the bin from both sides. Then during the week I actually saw a rat from my kitchen window.

    Today I went to the garden centre and got a bag of top soil which I used to fill in the holes and pack down the surrounding area on all sides of the bin. Literally an hour later I spotted not 1 but 2 rats back at the bin. They immediately began trying to burrow down through the new soil and without too much difficulty one of them managed to gain access via the gate mechanism at the front which they inadvertently managed to knock out of place.

    I went out and replaced that back in position but 20 minutes later they were back again and started burrowing from both sides. I have no doubt that they well have a new entrance hole into it soon enough.

    What are my options here? I would prefer not to poison them.

    As for attracting them in the first place. I haven't put any cooked food, meat or fish in there. I did however put some broken up egg-shells in there so I'll stop that now. I saw one of them emerge with a piece of carrot so it looks like they're happy to eat the organic waste.


    Suspect A: https://imgur.com/ZUneFQQ
    with suspect B: https://imgur.com/tnkaM6B

    I was taking a few barrow loads of compost from the bins today and turning the remaining material when your post got me thinking. I have, despite being in a rural location, never had a rat in the compost bins. So, let's get back to the original question and try to determine the cause of the problem. You don't put cooked foods or meats in the bin, so the usual culprit is eliminated. Is the material in the bin too wet or too dry? It should be damp but not overly wet. A properly moist bin will break down material quicker and be less attractive to rats. Are you getting a good mix of materials? Is it all just kitchen vegetable waste or are you adding grass clippings too? And, have you been turning it?

    Something is specifically attracting the rats and that needs to be sorted, rather than trapping, building a barrier or relying on a cat.


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    #96
    New Home
    Moderators, Arts Moderators, Recreation & Hobbies Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators Posts: 76,464 Mod ✭✭✭✭New Home


    Another thing I noticed is that rats prefer compost bins in corners, or near shelter. If there's plenty of room around them then not so much. I don't know how scientific that is, but that's what I've noticed, anyway.


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    #97
    smacl
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 15,722 Mod ✭✭✭✭smacl


    Ivory Lively Graphic wrote: »
    Something is specifically attracting the rats and that needs to be sorted, rather than trapping, building a barrier or relying on a cat.

    Composting can generate a lot of heat. Outside of food, warm shelter could prove attractive.


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    #98
    New Home
    Moderators, Arts Moderators, Recreation & Hobbies Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators Posts: 76,464 Mod ✭✭✭✭New Home


    I also think it's because they can have a somewhat sheltered escape route.


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    #99
    nafisjedriel
    Registered Users Posts: 5 ✭nafisjedriel


    I've seen rats chew the side of a wooden stable and the bottom of a heavy duty agricultural feed bin. If you dont wish to use bait - then use a live trap as it sounds like you have a breeding colony within reach.


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    #100
    ytpe2r5bxkn0c1
    Closed Accounts Posts: 32,688 ✭✭✭✭ytpe2r5bxkn0c1


    smacl wrote: »
    Composting can generate a lot of heat. Outside of food, warm shelter could prove attractive.

    This is what I'm trying to tie down. Any decent compost should be producing substantial heat but most are not bothered by rats.


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    #101
    Pretzill
    Registered Users Posts: 4,683 ✭✭✭Pretzill


    Seemingly if you cover the veggie scraps with clippings (or grass) or bury it a little deeper in - turn the pile regularly and keep it moist they won't be so attracted to it. Some say planting mint nearby will deter them but I'm not inclined to believe that one :)


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    #102
    ytpe2r5bxkn0c1
    Closed Accounts Posts: 32,688 ✭✭✭✭ytpe2r5bxkn0c1


    Pretzill wrote: »
    Seemingly if you cover the veggie scraps with clippings (or grass) or bury it a little deeper in - turn the pile regularly and keep it moist they won't be so attracted to it. Some say planting mint nearby will deter them but I'm not inclined to believe that one :)
    Not sure about mint but the rest fits with my experience and with what I asked the OP.


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    #103
    smacl
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 15,722 Mod ✭✭✭✭smacl


    Ivory Lively Graphic wrote: »
    This is what I'm trying to tie down. Any decent compost should be producing substantial heat but most are not bothered by rats.

    Never had rats in the composter but had mice a few times. AFAIK they like the worms as food so combine that with warmth and shelter and it makes for a bijou residence.


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    #104
    gman2k
    Registered Users Posts: 4,076 ✭✭✭gman2k


    I caught one smallish rat with a trap in my composter a couple of days ago, reset it again with peanut butter and hopefully get the rest of the family!
    I have the trap tied to the the bin,.as they can pull them back down into the compost as they try to struggle out - especially if they are just caught by the leg. I had to polish off a good few last year that were still alive.


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    #105
    smacl
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 15,722 Mod ✭✭✭✭smacl


    gman2k wrote: »
    I caught one smallish rat with a trap in my composter a couple of days ago, reset it again with peanut butter and hopefully get the rest of the family!
    I have the trap tied to the the bin,.as they can pull them back down into the compost as they try to struggle out - especially if they are just caught by the leg. I had to polish off a good few last year that were still alive.

    First time we knew we had rats was when I put down two mouse traps and both were gone in the morning. I still keep a few mouse and rat traps set under the cupboards where the cats are too big to get in and have them secured using piano wire. Lesson learned.


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    #106
    s7ryf3925pivug
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,007 ✭✭✭s7ryf3925pivug


    gman2k wrote: »
    I had to polish off a good few last year that were still alive.
    Get better traps?

    There should be a minimum standard for traps that they can consistently kill immediately. I guess that means they would be more hazardous for other animals including humans though.


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    #107
    gman2k
    Registered Users Posts: 4,076 ✭✭✭gman2k


    Fatima Plain Goalkeeper wrote:
    There should be a minimum standard for traps that they can consistently kill immediately. I guess that means they would be more hazardous for other animals including humans though.


    They are actual rat traps, but if Roland is only caught by the leg in it, then he is unlikely to die until "helped".


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    #108
    gozunda
    Registered Users Posts: 18,996 ✭✭✭✭gozunda


    nafisjedriel wrote: »
    I've seen rats chew the side of a wooden stable and the bottom of a heavy duty agricultural feed bin. If you dont wish to use bait - then use a live trap as it sounds like you have a breeding colony within reach.

    Really Lol. New poster? Found copy and paste? Well done there lad :pac:
    gozunda wrote: »
    Rats will burrow, chew and generally get through just about anything except decent concrete and metal. They also bring with them the danger of wiles disease - a danger in a garden especially if there are small children playing. I've seen rats chew the side of a wooden stable and the bottom of a heavy duty agricultural feed bin. If you dont wish to use bait - then use a live trap as it sounds like you have a breeding colony within reach. The eggshells are irrelevant and as you said they are eating the vegetable matter - they will quite happily come back for more of that. Here have a couple of farm cats that do the work of keeping rat numbers to a minimum. Good job they do to.

    Immitation and flattery and all that kind of stuff ;)


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    #109
    looksee
    Registered Users Posts: 28,118 ✭✭✭✭looksee


    smacl wrote: »
    My father had a small island on Lough Corrib where there was a big rat problem. He set traps every night and emptied them each morning for a month and it didn't make much difference. The problem turned out that he was keeping chickens and the rats were after the food. He got rid of the chickens and the rats left of their own accord. Apparently you'd see them migrating from island to island en-masse every now and again as one food source became exhausted and they went looking for the next one.
    .

    Sorry, bit OT but I am fascinated - did they swim?


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    #110
    smacl
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 15,722 Mod ✭✭✭✭smacl


    looksee wrote: »
    Sorry, bit OT but I am fascinated - did they swim?

    Yes, pretty much like a large brown carpet going across the lake by all accounts. I was too young to remember it first hand, but the father commented on it regularly. I have had rats swim up beside me on occasion in a lake in France and they are certainly good swimmers.

    To the best of my knowledge, on an island without natural predators they'll breed to meet the available food source very quickly and then migrate en-masse as it becomes exhausted and they begin to starve. Rats can breed very quickly indeed, if you believe Wikipedia a single mating pair can result in a population of 15 thousand in a single year in optimal conditions. As such, the single best method of controlling them is eliminating the food source. Killing them via traps or poison isn't going to have much long term effect. Natural predators will also help keep things in check but aren't a solution if they pose a problem as well, e.g. feral cats, mink, etc..


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    #111
    peasant
    Registered Users Posts: 17,819 ✭✭✭✭peasant


    Fatima Plain Goalkeeper wrote: »
    Get better traps?

    There should be a minimum standard for traps that they can consistently kill immediately. I guess that means they would be more hazardous for other animals including humans though.

    Rats are extremely weary of any kind of trap...basically of anything new in their environment. Lured by the bait, they throw some of that caution to the wind, but still go to great lengths to avoid direct contact.
    Most rat traps (the snappy kind) are designed for a full frontal approach...the rats sneak round the back though or climb over the top / approach from all sorts of angles.

    Often times this means they get the bait without releasing the trap, release the trap and then get the bait or get caught only by the leg or tail so that they suffer but don't die.
    I've hat to despatch too many rats that had pretty gruesome injuries...I've totally given up on snap traps.

    For me it's either a live trap (which they avoid like the plague) or a certain killer like the goodnature one mentioned earlier.


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    #112
    pablo128
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,221 ✭✭✭pablo128


    peasant wrote: »
    Rats are extremely weary of any kind of trap...basically of anything new in their environment. Lured by the bait, they throw some of that caution to the wind, but still go to great lengths to avoid direct contact.
    Most rat traps (the snappy kind) are designed for a full frontal approach...the rats sneak round the back though or climb over the top / approach from all sorts of angles.

    Often times this means they get the bait without releasing the trap, release the trap and then get the bait or get caught only by the leg or tail so that they suffer but don't die.
    I've hat to despatch too many rats that had pretty gruesome injuries...I've totally given up on snap traps.

    For me it's either a live trap (which they avoid like the plague) or a certain killer like the goodnature one mentioned earlier.

    Simply channel their access so they have to walk across the traps. They don't tend to like wide open spaces and will often run along the bottom of a wall for example. Use that against them.

    I've dealt with rats and mice quite a few times and traps never failed to catch them, although I have had to finish a few off with a belt of a stick or worse.


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    #113
    Graces7
    Registered Users Posts: 32,634 ✭✭✭✭Graces7


    smacl wrote: »
    Yes, pretty much like a large brown carpet going across the lake by all accounts. I was too young to remember it first hand, but the father commented on it regularly. I have had rats swim up beside me on occasion in a lake in France and they are certainly good swimmers.

    To the best of my knowledge, on an island without natural predators they'll breed to meet the available food source very quickly and then migrate en-masse as it becomes exhausted and they begin to starve. Rats can breed very quickly indeed, if you believe Wikipedia a single mating pair can result in a population of 15 thousand in a single year in optimal conditions. As such, the single best method of controlling them is eliminating the food source. Killing them via traps or poison isn't going to have much long term effect. Natural predators will also help keep things in check but aren't a solution if they pose a problem as well, e.g. feral cats, mink, etc..

    reminds of this..

    https://poets.org/poem/pied-piper-hamelin


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    #114
    New Home
    Moderators, Arts Moderators, Recreation & Hobbies Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators Posts: 76,464 Mod ✭✭✭✭New Home


    Apologies, everyone - I hadn't realised what forum I was in.


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    #115
    cheif kaiser
    Registered Users Posts: 632 ✭✭✭cheif kaiser


    I had issues with rats getting under my decking, every time I blocked up one hole, they would burrow another one. My dog used to go mental scratching at the decking trying to get to them.

    I eventually dug a channel around the decking and buried, 18 gauge - 1/2" x 1/2" Welded Wire Mesh, a foot down into the ground and stapled it all around at the back of the front decking board. No issues whatsoever since.

    Incidentally, a rat died at the top of my garden and when I went to dispose of it, a bloody seagull swooped down and took it away. So it seams the food chain with rats and birds, works both ways :D


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    #116
    Brussels Sprout
    Registered Users Posts: 6,609 ✭✭✭Brussels Sprout


    Update: I bought a couple of sheets of wire mesh, placed that underneath the compost bin and the rats haven't been able to get in since. I then decided to try and poison the rats so bought a bait station in Woodies and loaded it with 3 bags of poison. The instructions said not to open the bags so I didn't however after 10 days the rats haven't gone near it. Any suggestions?


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    #117
    Lumen
    Registered Users Posts: 31,016 ✭✭✭✭Lumen


    Did you wear gloves whilst handling the bait station?


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    #118
    Pretzill
    Registered Users Posts: 4,683 ✭✭✭Pretzill


    Brussels Sprout wrote: »
    Update: I bought a couple of sheets of wire mesh, placed that underneath the compost bin and the rats haven't been able to get in since. I then decided to try and poison the rats so bought a bait station in Woodies and loaded it with 3 bags of poison. The instructions said not to open the bags so I didn't however after 10 days the rats haven't gone near it. Any suggestions?

    Be careful if you have pets - they may eat a poisoned rat - (are other wildlife may do too, like owls etc)


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    #119
    Brussels Sprout
    Registered Users Posts: 6,609 ✭✭✭Brussels Sprout


    Lumen wrote: »
    Did you wear gloves whilst handling the bait station?

    The very first time, no. I went to check the bait twice and wore gloves both times. I also moved it from a place out in the open to under a bush, after about 6 days (while wearing gloves)


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    #120
    Bass Reeves
    Registered Users Posts: 18,207 ✭✭✭✭Bass Reeves


    Brussels Sprout wrote: »
    Update: I bought a couple of sheets of wire mesh, placed that underneath the compost bin and the rats haven't been able to get in since. I then decided to try and poison the rats so bought a bait station in Woodies and loaded it with 3 bags of poison. The instructions said not to open the bags so I didn't however after 10 days the rats haven't gone near it. Any suggestions?

    It's very hot weather and they have other accessible food sources. Just leave in position and try not to disturb too much. Rats are sensitive to changes in things.they usually do not go near anything strange for a while.

    If you want a poison well more a way of killing rats without the danger of s poisoned rat being a danger to other animals mix flour with cement or plaster of Paris powder. However make sure it stays dry and pets have no accesse to it. Saw it on the net once

    Slava Ukrainii



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    #121
    pablo128
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,221 ✭✭✭pablo128


    Bass Reeves wrote: »
    It's very hot weather and they have other accessible food sources. Just leave in position and try not to disturb too much. Rats are sensitive to changes in things.they usually do not go near anything strange for a while.

    If you want a poison well more a way of killing rats without the danger of s poisoned rat being a danger to other animals mix flour with cement or plaster of Paris powder. However make sure it stays dry and pets have no accesse to it. Saw it on the net once
    I tried that in an attic. I mixed sunflower seeds in plaster powder but they didn't go near it. I caught a heap of them with traps in the same attic.


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