Rats burrowing into compost bin

Lumen · 17-06-2019 11:56am

Fatima Plain Goalkeeper wrote: »

I guess that would make the diseases they transmit gods creatures too.

Obviously rats are obviously a health risk obviously

Wild birds are also a health risk, they can transmit bird flu which is frequently deadly.

But people still feed birds.

New Home · 17-06-2019 12:00pm

Poison is terrible. Aside from the smell, the rats themselves die in absolute agony (and there really isn't any need for that), other animals may get to it and end up the same way, or they may eat the dead rats and, yes, you guessed it, end up being poisoned themselves.

auspicious · 17-06-2019 12:01pm

Lumen wrote: »

Wild birds are also a health risk, they can transmit bird flu which is frequently deadly.

But people still feed birds.

European bird numbers have fallen 55% in the last 30 years.
Birdwatch Ireland says two thirds of our 202 regularly occurring birds are red and amber-listed. Those are the two most critical conservation ratings.
Scientists say the bird decline correlates to the dramatic reduction in insect life.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.irishexaminer.com/breakingnews/lifestyle/outdoorsandgarden/alarming-decline-in-insects-means-a-fall-in-bird-populations-928323.html

Everyone should help them out by feeding.

s7ryf3925pivug · 17-06-2019 12:45pm

auspicious wrote: »

European bird numbers have fallen 55% in the last 30 years.
Birdwatch Ireland says two thirds of our 202 regularly occurring birds are red and amber-listed. Those are the two most critical conservation ratings.
Scientists say the bird decline correlates to the dramatic reduction in insect life.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.irishexaminer.com/breakingnews/lifestyle/outdoorsandgarden/alarming-decline-in-insects-means-a-fall-in-bird-populations-928323.html

Everyone should help them out by feeding.

meadowing is also supposed to help, in the sense of letting grass grow pretty long. It should increase insect numbers. We're doing this with one of our lawns, which we don't use as a play area etc.

Day Lewin · 17-06-2019 5:47pm

The drips and spillages where seeds fall from a bird feeder are soon hoovered up by pigeons and squirrels.

A fear of rodents is no good reason to not feed the birds.

Don't forget - rats are everywhere that humans go: from the Arctic circle to the tops of mountains.
In the waterpipes under the pavement, in roofs of buildings.

We don't really mind them as long as we don't see them!

gozunda · 17-06-2019 6:44pm

Day Lewin wrote: »

The drips and spillages where seeds fall from a bird feeder are soon hoovered up by pigeons and squirrels.
A fear of rodents is no good reason to not feed the birds.

Don't forget - rats are everywhere that humans go: from the Arctic circle to the tops of mountains.
In the waterpipes under the pavement, in roofs of buildings.

We don't really mind them as long as we don't see them!

Dont have to see them tbh. It's quite easy to smell rats. Rats also leave a very distinctive unpleasant smell. There may also be grease trails on walls and rat droppings etc where they access a building etc.

Rats are responsible for sizeable food losses worldwide either by eating or contaminating grain and food shipments. Granted they are everywhere but without some control - their numbers can quickly become a bio and health hazard to both other animals and humans.

With regard to birds rats will also eat eggs and young nestlings where they are in reach. Ground nesting birds can also suffer significant losses.

pablo128 · 17-06-2019 6:47pm

We had mice in a shed beside a bird feeder in the back garden. I set a few traps and got quite a few. A day or so later the baby mice came out, presumably looking for mammy and daddy, and were promptly killed by the birds!

Lumen · 17-06-2019 9:00pm

auspicious wrote: »

European bird numbers have fallen 55% in the last 30 years.
Birdwatch Ireland says two thirds of our 202 regularly occurring birds are red and amber-listed. Those are the two most critical conservation ratings.
Scientists say the bird decline correlates to the dramatic reduction in insect life.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.irishexaminer.com/breakingnews/lifestyle/outdoorsandgarden/alarming-decline-in-insects-means-a-fall-in-bird-populations-928323.html

Everyone should help them out by feeding.

Sure, I didn't say don't feed them, it's just the inconsistency I'm pointing out.

smacl · 18-06-2019 8:26am

Must be a bit of karma in this thread as our younger tom caught his first rat last night which pleased myself and my wife as our older tom is on his last legs. Less good was her finding a dead mouse in the laundry basket this morning also due to said young tom. Swings and roundabouts

Brussels Sprout · 18-06-2019 9:47am

Update: Due to the position of the compost bin on the corner of a raised bed and also with some plastic liner directly behind it there is only about 30 degrees that are vunerable to tunnelling. I have placed a mound of rocks on this area. I noticed that the rats were managing to burrow underneath from behind these so whenever they did this I just filled in the tunnels with more rocks and reconfigured the pile. There haven’t been any new tunnels in the past 24 hours. Now I’d like this think that this is due to them giving up, however the truth is likely a bit more macabre.

2 nights ago I was watching TV when I heard a thud from the kitchen window – the unmistakeable sound of a bird flying into it. I heard some cheeping but when I went outside I couldn’t see any bird so assumed that he must not have been injured and flown away. Last night I was looking out at the yard when I saw a rat dart out with a large piece of bird carcass in its mouth. Judging from the direction of where it came from the bird must have been in behind the wheelie bins where they likely got to him.

Graces7 · 18-06-2019 1:08pm

smacl wrote: »

Must be a bit of karma in this thread as our younger tom caught his first rat last night which pleased myself and my wife as our older tom is on his last legs. Less good was her finding a dead mouse in the laundry basket this morning also due to said young tom. Swings and roundabouts

when I moved here, deep rural and island, the place had been empty five years. There was no problem inside but in the old cattle sheds.. I had 3 cats then and the oldest was the best ratter ever. He spent and still spends, hours by the rat run and every day or so there would be a dead rat for me. One was the size of a small cat; never seen the like. Freaked me out.

Not seen a rat around for many months .

Doctors room ghost · 18-06-2019 2:21pm

smacl wrote: »

Must be a bit of karma in this thread as our younger tom caught his first rat last night which pleased myself and my wife as our older tom is on his last legs. Less good was her finding a dead mouse in the laundry basket this morning also due to said young tom. Swings and roundabouts

My cateen got killed on the road.fcuker that hit him left him there.
Least he could do was throw him up on the ditch.

I saw a great documentary one time where people meet up in New York at night with their ratting dogs and go on a ratty hunt.it looked like great craic and it brought people together as a community group.
Like a fox hunt but the Fox is replaced by the rat.

There’s some greyhounds aswell as terriers that are great ratters

New Home · 18-06-2019 4:47pm

Sorry to hear about your cat, DRG.

Bass Reeves · 18-06-2019 5:40pm

Brussels Sprout wrote: »

Update: Due to the position of the compost bin on the corner of a raised bed and also with some plastic liner directly behind it there is only about 30 degrees that are vunerable to tunnelling. I have placed a mound of rocks on this area. I noticed that the rats were managing to burrow underneath from behind these so whenever they did this I just filled in the tunnels with more rocks and reconfigured the pile. There haven’t been any new tunnels in the past 24 hours. Now I’d like this think that this is due to them giving up, however the truth is likely a bit more macabre.

2 nights ago I was watching TV when I heard a thud from the kitchen window – the unmistakeable sound of a bird flying into it. I heard some cheeping but when I went outside I couldn’t see any bird so assumed that he must not have been injured and flown away. Last night I was looking out at the yard when I saw a rat dart out with a large piece of bird carcass in its mouth. Judging from the direction of where it came from the bird must have been in behind the wheelie bins where they likely got to him.

Quit the messing decide on posion or traps but get it sorted before they move in with you. There must be a a good few around you. If you see rats you are in real trouble.

smacl · 19-06-2019 2:58pm

Bass Reeves wrote: »

Quit the messing decide on a cat posion or traps but get it sorted before they move in with you. There must be a a good few around you. If you see rats you are in real trouble.

FYP

Jimmy McGill · 19-06-2019 3:13pm

We had a similar problem a couple of years ago. We got 2 puppies and 2 kittens and we haven't seen any since. Problem solved, with 4 great pets to boot.

Stop moaning ffs · 19-06-2019 4:57pm

Another myth perhaps but rats will move elsewhere if they even see cats or dogs and or smell their pee?

Any truth?

New Home · 19-06-2019 5:01pm

Myth. They may be more careful, but they won't leave, if they find shelter/food.

pablo128 · 19-06-2019 7:43pm

I have been told that ferret droppings are a great deterrent. I don't know how true it is.

Bass Reeves · 19-06-2019 9:58pm

some dogs and cats will not attcak rats. rats will sense that and take advantage of it. You need a cat whoes mother was a hunter to train there offspring to kill a rat.

s7ryf3925pivug · 19-06-2019 10:55pm

Look for a shelter that has feral cats. They will be the best hunters.

smacl · 20-06-2019 9:04am

pablo128 wrote: »

I have been told that ferret droppings are a great deterrent. I don't know how true it is.

Don't know about the droppings, but many years ago a friend in school used to keep ferrets and make great pocket money taking them around some of the local factories and storehouses catching rats.

magicbastarder · 20-06-2019 9:10am

Fatima Plain Goalkeeper wrote: »

Look for a shelter that has feral cats. They will be the best hunters.

an animal shelter would be (or should be) damn slow to re-home cats to people who specifically want them to catch rats.

smacl · 20-06-2019 9:11am

Fatima Plain Goalkeeper wrote: »

Look for a shelter that has feral cats. They will be the best hunters.

Most of our cats have either been found cats that have just rocked up to the front door or kittens fostered through the DSPCA that we've hung on to. Of the five we've had so far, the toms that are allowed roam seem to be best hunters. Currently down to three, with the two fatalities hit by cars.

Graces7 · 20-06-2019 9:11am

New Home wrote: »

Myth. They may be more careful, but they won't leave, if they find shelter/food.

Once a cat has killed one, they will all leave. Have seen that happen twice. My cats here are fierce and merciless ratters and after several kills not a rat anywhere near for months.

Graces7 · 20-06-2019 9:12am

magicbastarder wrote: »

an animal shelter would be (or should be) damn slow to re-home cats to people who specifically want them to catch rats.

Thank you.

Three of my five cats are skilled and merciless ratters and total pets also.

s7ryf3925pivug · 20-06-2019 9:28am

magicbastarder wrote: »

an animal shelter would be (or should be) damn slow to re-home cats to people who specifically want them to catch rats.

An animal charity here specifically encourages adoption of their rescued feral cats to catch rats on farms. It says it on their site. Feral cats are not pets.

mugsymugsy · 20-06-2019 7:54pm

Pretty sure I just saw a mouse scurrying away from compost bin will have to have words with the two cats. They have left birds and mice as presents before so not sure why they have been lazy. I have seen the cats patrolling the compost recently

magicbastarder · 20-06-2019 7:55pm

Fatima Plain Goalkeeper wrote: »

An animal charity here specifically encourages adoption of their rescued feral cats to catch rats on farms. It says it on their site. Feral cats are not pets.

i'm genuinely curious as to why they 'rescue' them so?

mugsymugsy · 20-06-2019 7:57pm

magicbastarder wrote: »

i'm genuinely curious as to why they 'rescue' them so?

Trap neuter release. Stop crazy amount of feral cars breeding

chicorytip · 20-06-2019 8:48pm

bkrangle wrote:

I've got bird feeders with trays underneath which catches some, but not all, of the spillage

bkrangle wrote:

The type of seed can affect the amount of waste a lot too. I tend to go for sunflower hearts and less mess varieties than the standard mixed seed now.

Birdseed will always attract vermin. Use raisins, nuts or brown breadcrumbs in very small amounts and feed twice a day if you are around. You will attract Robins, Blackbirds, Sparrows and Thrushes mostly.These are very friendly birds who will practically eat out your hand after a while and will always signal their presence with song and will be quite happy to have you stand and watch as they feed which is always a great pleasure.

bobbyss · 21-06-2019 6:00am

Stop moaning ffs wrote:

Another myth perhaps but rats will move elsewhere if they even see cats or dogs and or smell their pee?

Stop moaning ffs wrote:

Any truth?

I had thought and hoped that was the case too. Our dog is incontinent and leaves small pools under her when she gets up. She smells awful. We have gone to vet and she takes tablets. But we had rats at the same time!

So no truth necessarily. But a dog will alert you to them and smell them. We poisioned them. They were under floor and behind wall. Inaccessible to us. Dreadful smell that lasted about over a month. Then bluebottles. We had to use incense to cover the smell. Could have no guests etc. Dreadful experience.

Day Lewin · 21-06-2019 11:54am

Not precisely relevant to compost bins: but...

One thing that deters rats is the smoke from burning chillies.
I've done this - the smoke is acrid, corrosive - don't stand downwind of it.
Place a rag soaked in eg oil or Vaseline on a small spade or something similar, set light, it should smoulder rather than flame: push into the rat holes.

Rats are Neophobe - they don't trust new or strange things - it is a reason for their great survival. But they also don't like being hassled day after day in their home.

There's a long-established rat labyrinth in the grass verges on my suburban street and sometimes new holes appear in the grass. I'm aggressive about tackling them, though. Chilli smoke and hassle. And no available food.

Graces7 · 21-06-2019 2:52pm

Fatima Plain Goalkeeper wrote: »

An animal charity here specifically encourages adoption of their rescued feral cats to catch rats on farms. It says it on their site. Feral cats are not pets.

and feral cats need people who will feed and care for them too. They advertise on donedeal as " farm cats"

pablo128 · 21-06-2019 2:56pm

A cat might kill the rats. A trap will kill the rats, and you don't have to feed a trap or clean it's **** up.

ytpe2r5bxkn0c1 · 21-06-2019 3:37pm

pablo128 wrote: »

A cat might kill the rats. A trap will kill the rats, and you don't have to feed a trap or clean it's **** up.

So true. If you want to kill rats, then get a decent trap. Feral cats are a blight on the countryside, killing birds and small mammals indiscriminately while fouling our gardens in the process.

smacl · 21-06-2019 5:28pm

pablo128 wrote: »

A cat might kill the rats. A trap will kill the rats, and you don't have to feed a trap or clean it's **** up.

My experience has been that rats get smart to traps pretty quickly. After moving in to our current house we caught about half a dozen in the first year and after that nothing, but they were still visible. If you can eliminate the food source and potential for shelter that's grand, but we have a shop next door with a deli counter and the refuse bin is pretty much a running buffet for the local rat population. Cats seem to do a better job, and if you leave a plot for them to crap, they can be trained to use it. We currently have three cats and two dogs and it is the dogs that could do with a lesson or two about not crapping all over the garden.

pablo128 · 21-06-2019 6:31pm

smacl wrote: »

My experience has been that rats get smart to traps pretty quickly. After moving in to our current house we caught about half a dozen in the first year and after that nothing, but they were still visible. If you can eliminate the food source and potential for shelter that's grand, but we have a shop next door with a deli counter and the refuse bin is pretty much a running buffet for the local rat population. Cats seem to do a better job, and if you leave a plot for them to crap, they can be trained to use it. We currently have three cats and two dogs and it is the dogs that could do with a lesson or two about not crapping all over the garden.

As well as baiting the trap, you place it is such a way as the rats have to walk over it. Create a run if you have to. They're smart enough but not that smart.

Pretzill · 24-06-2019 9:32pm

Rats are intelligent little divils and when you get used to seeing them, they become another wild animal in the garden. But they do carry weils and yours (and mine) may not but you do have to be careful. I live rurally and saw rats well before I moved here (actually city rats were much larger and meaner looking)

I did have them in the house here (wintering in the attic) the only solution was to completely refurbish all the fascia boards (they haven't come back in) they do hang around the compost and love the fat balls and nuts we put out for the birds.

We trap them (poison could be a hazard to birds) and while this doesn't remove the population it lowers it, along with the fox eating them and also the (dreaded feral cats) as predators - they are kept to a minimun.

Graces7 · 25-06-2019 5:57am

Pretzill wrote: »

Rats are intelligent little divils and when you get used to seeing them, they become another wild animal in the garden. But they do carry weils and yours (and mine) may not but you do have to be careful. I live rurally and saw rats well before I moved here (actually city rats were much larger and meaner looking)

I did have them in the house here (wintering in the attic) the only solution was to completely refurbish all the fascia boards (they haven't come back in) they do hang around the compost and love the fat balls and nuts we put out for the birds.

We trap them (poison could be a hazard to birds) and while this doesn't remove the population it lowers it, along with the fox eating them and also the (dreaded feral cats) as predators - they are kept to a minimun.

We took a while here to understand what so many rats were doing here as when I moved in the place had been empty for many years and the dwelling itself is a sealed unit. No food anywhere for them.

This is a small island. Three fields away to the south there is a small farm and another smallholding the same to the west. With feed stores and rats and no cats.. So we think that this patch had been a nesting site on their "patch". Rats as you rightly say are highly organised as communities.

They are no longer around here; the run is grown over and they are too canny to try to survive with my team of five cats. and I do not feed the birds or compost so nothing for them. Never seen one the size of the grand daddy... No trap could have caught him! Bigger than my smallest cat. shudders...

smacl · 25-06-2019 9:03am

Graces7 wrote: »

This is a small island.

My father had a small island on Lough Corrib where there was a big rat problem. He set traps every night and emptied them each morning for a month and it didn't make much difference. The problem turned out that he was keeping chickens and the rats were after the food. He got rid of the chickens and the rats left of their own accord. Apparently you'd see them migrating from island to island en-masse every now and again as one food source became exhausted and they went looking for the next one.

I think they can breed to meet the available food source very quickly, so in that scenario either removing the food source or introducing a predator makes sense. There used to be a fair population of stoats in Ireland at one point that served as a natural predator in rural areas but not sure if this is still the case.

Graces7 · 25-06-2019 11:12am

smacl wrote: »

My father had a small island on Lough Corrib where there was a big rat problem. He set traps every night and emptied them each morning for a month and it didn't make much difference. The problem turned out that he was keeping chickens and the rats were after the food. He got rid of the chickens and the rats left of their own accord. Apparently you'd see them migrating from island to island en-masse every now and again as one food source became exhausted and they went looking for the next one.

I think they can breed to meet the available food source very quickly, so in that scenario either removing the food source or introducing a predator makes sense. There used to be a fair population of stoats in Ireland at one point that served as a natural predator in rural areas but not sure if this is still the case.

some wonderful images... Nothing for them here but abundance up the lanes.. Maybe my cats who roam free will sort the lot out!

Odd as until a few years ago there was a serious cat problem on the island. I was quizzed when I arrived re whether my cats were fixed. only a couple of other cats here now. Maddening thing is that the man who organised the purge kept HIS tom entire as did one other resident.. as there are no entire females why should they pay.to get them fixed..

wonder what impact mink have had on the rat population in Ireland?

kylith · 25-06-2019 11:28am

magicbastarder wrote: »

i'm genuinely curious as to why they 'rescue' them so?

Because the option is often either trap, neuter, and rehome as farmyard ratters or euthanasia. Feral cat colonies are generally unwelcome in urban areas but can be a boon on a farm.

ytpe2r5bxkn0c1 · 25-06-2019 4:26pm

Brussels Sprout wrote: »

A month ago I got a compost bin for my organic waste which I have sitting on a raised bed. In retrospect the surrounding area was not very level. Last week I noticed that there were some burrow-holes leading into the bin from both sides. Then during the week I actually saw a rat from my kitchen window.

Today I went to the garden centre and got a bag of top soil which I used to fill in the holes and pack down the surrounding area on all sides of the bin. Literally an hour later I spotted not 1 but 2 rats back at the bin. They immediately began trying to burrow down through the new soil and without too much difficulty one of them managed to gain access via the gate mechanism at the front which they inadvertently managed to knock out of place.

I went out and replaced that back in position but 20 minutes later they were back again and started burrowing from both sides. I have no doubt that they well have a new entrance hole into it soon enough.

What are my options here? I would prefer not to poison them.

As for attracting them in the first place. I haven't put any cooked food, meat or fish in there. I did however put some broken up egg-shells in there so I'll stop that now. I saw one of them emerge with a piece of carrot so it looks like they're happy to eat the organic waste.

Suspect A: https://imgur.com/ZUneFQQ
with suspect B: https://imgur.com/tnkaM6B

I was taking a few barrow loads of compost from the bins today and turning the remaining material when your post got me thinking. I have, despite being in a rural location, never had a rat in the compost bins. So, let's get back to the original question and try to determine the cause of the problem. You don't put cooked foods or meats in the bin, so the usual culprit is eliminated. Is the material in the bin too wet or too dry? It should be damp but not overly wet. A properly moist bin will break down material quicker and be less attractive to rats. Are you getting a good mix of materials? Is it all just kitchen vegetable waste or are you adding grass clippings too? And, have you been turning it?

Something is specifically attracting the rats and that needs to be sorted, rather than trapping, building a barrier or relying on a cat.

New Home · 25-06-2019 5:10pm

Another thing I noticed is that rats prefer compost bins in corners, or near shelter. If there's plenty of room around them then not so much. I don't know how scientific that is, but that's what I've noticed, anyway.

smacl · 25-06-2019 6:40pm

Ivory Lively Graphic wrote: »

Something is specifically attracting the rats and that needs to be sorted, rather than trapping, building a barrier or relying on a cat.

Composting can generate a lot of heat. Outside of food, warm shelter could prove attractive.

New Home · 25-06-2019 6:42pm

I also think it's because they can have a somewhat sheltered escape route.

nafisjedriel · 25-06-2019 6:49pm

I've seen rats chew the side of a wooden stable and the bottom of a heavy duty agricultural feed bin. If you dont wish to use bait - then use a live trap as it sounds like you have a breeding colony within reach.

ytpe2r5bxkn0c1 · 25-06-2019 7:14pm

smacl wrote: »

Composting can generate a lot of heat. Outside of food, warm shelter could prove attractive.

This is what I'm trying to tie down. Any decent compost should be producing substantial heat but most are not bothered by rats.

Pretzill · 25-06-2019 7:27pm

Seemingly if you cover the veggie scraps with clippings (or grass) or bury it a little deeper in - turn the pile regularly and keep it moist they won't be so attracted to it. Some say planting mint nearby will deter them but I'm not inclined to believe that one

Rats burrowing into compost bin

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