Is there a point to making children learn irish in school anymore?

The Point to Making Children Learn Irish in School:

Ok! Enough about culture and identity! Who cares, right? You are who you are and maybe you can lead a horse to water but you can't make him drink.

What most of us seem to agree on is the importance of choice and self-determination. And compelling children to learn a dying language is contrary to that principle, right?

Wrong.

In fact, the best justification to continue with compulsory Irish-language policies is precisely to support the idea of "choice."

Start with the following assumption:

People who wish to learn and to use Irish in their daily lives should have the right to do so.

Besides being democratic, this principle is supported by the Eureopean Charter for Regional or Minority Languages, which has been ratified not only by the Republic of Ireland but by the United Kingdom as well.

Unless I'm mistaken, the pending Language Bill that has been drafted by the Department of Arts, Heritage, Islands and the Gaeltacht would specify that Irish-language users have a right to obtain services in Irish from the State (or at least from certain departments).

Subsequently, the State would require an adequate pool of civil servants who are fluent in Irish to provide these services, translate official state documents, etc. This is not a choice. This is an obligation on the part of the government.

Thus, the State not only would have a valid interest in promoting Irish-language education but they have a duty to do so, as a signatory to the European charter. Just as the state has an interest in promoting math and sciences in order to produce techically skilled graduates, a compulsory langauge policy is necessary to produce an adequate pool of prospective civil servants.

As citizens, you have the right to throw aside the langauge if you choose to do so, unless your working as a civil servant and you're called up to provide services in Irish--then it's part of your job. However, as citizens, you also have certain duties to the state which are part of the reciprocal social contract.

Finally, if you want to be good Europeans, then you're honor-bound to acknowledge the conventions of Europe, which include minority language rights.

And, if you don't want to be good Europeans, then clearly there's something wrong with you!

Ok your still a little ****ed up in that i was also talking about culture as well adn being "Irish". My Mother is Irish and my Father is English, I am Irish, i live in Ireland, i respect the culture and i have inheated the culture form my morther and her famly. i am NOT Engilsh because i have never lived or considerd there culture to me my culture and heratage, im irish, its on my berth cert and its on my passport, but most of all its in ME, and its not for u to deside about weather or not it is my heatage. So plz just drop it. And also i noticed u have not rely sayed aay thing about what i was saying, because i can not speek irish due to a learning disablity that makes me "Anglo-Irish"? Because if thats true i think there are alot of "Anglo-Irish" people who would not see your "great Vision"

If you abandon Irish your children will certainly blame you for the death of the language.

<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">...Groibhear on the other hand, is not Irish.</font>

I never claimed to be.

B'fhéidir gurb' fhearr é "garránach"?

I think it's important that kids talk about why they don't like Irish, and why they don't want to learn it.

I like Irish, and would happily speak it to anyone who'd like to speak to me (unless they correct me, in which case I will kill them and put their body in a suitcase, with "sin tusa leat" scrawled on the outside).

But it's obvious I'm in a minority, and I'd like to know why. There must be a reason for the great dislike kids have for Irish, and for learning it, and until this is acknowledged and examined, and the reasons for it are understood, Irish hasn't a chance.

Funny thing is, if you look back to the 1960s you'll find the same debate going on - about Latin. And of course Latin disappeared from the curriculum, and now there are kids saying thay'd love to learn it. O tempora, o mores.

Tá go maith, feicim go bhfuil orm rud an-shimpli a rá, míniú beag.
OK, I see I have to say something very simple, a little explanation
focail as Gaeilge:
Éireannach - a citizen of Poblacht na hÉireann. So, a catholic Irish speaking person in Northern Irealnd is not Éireannach (although some of them are working on it...) Ar an láimh eile, only English speaking amadáin in the republic are! Nach ionatch é sin?
Gaelach - a true Irishman, Irish speaking, native to the island of Ireland, be his/her mother or father penguins or Marsians. Mar sin, na stóiriní, ní sibh Gaelaigh ar chor ar bith, náire an domhain oraibhse.
Gaeilgeoir - an Irish speaking person anywhere on the globe, penguins included.

So, in my humble foreign opinion, if you had the first thing with you about your culture, you would not dare say that Gaeilge is not to be obligatory in schools there, no matter how unimportant in your life, however close to extinction she may be. The only thing you have to do is to open your mouths and say cupla focail gach lá to anybody around you, I mean, if YOU do it, it has to be fashionable enough. This way, all your lip service just goes on to say how little you care, and me, as a foreigner, can ask you, if you care so little for your treasure, your own ex-language, how on earth do you expect me to believe that you can truly care for anybody else. If you don't, b'fhéidir gur fearr leat buail an bothar, a mhic, agus téigh ar áit an mbonn go Meiricea sabhair, saol álainn is ea é ansiúd, agus do thír chaite fós i bhfuil agus fuath agus Béarla priomhtheanga an domhain ar aon chor... Tá a fhios ag madaraí an bhaile nach bhfuil ceart agat, buíochas le Dia.

Check out http://www.ireland.com/newspaper/front/2001/0809/fro3.htm

<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by Gróibhear:
Agus?!? An bhfuil aon tuairim agat faoi?
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Tá.

<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">
Is spéisiúl é go bfhuil a lán daoine tógtha don smaoineamh go bhfuil an "ceart" ag tuismitheoirí agus páistí an teanga a sheachaint
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Ní mise. Aontaím go huile is go hiomlán leis an scoil faoin cheist seo. Sa chéad dul síos, mura mbeidh na páistí sásta fanacht sa rang scoile (faoi mar atá siad anois), cá mbeidh siad? An mbeadh na tuimitheoirí sásta íoc as babysitter doibh?


[This message has been edited by groovebabe (edited 09-08-2001).]

Was it your letter in the Irish Times?

<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by Neil3030:
Do you not think of it as an embarresment not being able to speak the language of your country?</font>

Nope, can't say I've ever lost sleep over it to be honest.
I was in honours Irish in secondary, all I can remember now is the odd phrase, and those long lists of dum-duit-do-di charts that I don't quite know what to do with anyway.
Sod it, I'm glad my first language is English.

<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by Fand:

And the Israelis, who arrived in Israel with only one language really in common - English -
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An bhfuilir cinnte? Ní dóigh liom go raibh Béarla ag Giúdaigh na Rúise nó ag Giúdaigh an Ghearmáin nuair a bhunaíodh stáit an Iosrael. Agus dá bhrí sin, bhí sé níos furasta an Eabhrais a roghnú mar mheán cumarsáide.

Dá mbeadh Francis ag muintir Chorcaí agus Spáinnis ag muintir na Gaillimhe, bheadh sé éasca go leor an Ghaeilge chur chun cinn mar theanga choitianta freisin. Faraoir, is é an Béarla atá acu agus tá tionchar na teanga sin ag dul ó neart go neart ar fud an domhain. Mar sin, measaim gur drochshampla í an Eabhrais.

Is fíu an sraith raidió "Language Steamrollers" (m.s. Béarla, Spáinnis, Sínis), a bhí á chraoladh ar an BBC World Service le déanaí, a chloisteáil má tá suim agat san ábhar seo.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/worldservice/index.shtml

Are you sure? I doubt if the Jews of Germany or Russia had English when Israel was established. It was easy, therefore, to use Hebrew as a common means of communication.

If Corkonians spoke French, and Galwegians spoke Spanish, then it would be easy to develop Irish as a common language. But they speak English.

The destruction of languages is, unfortunately, continuing apace thoughout the world - the main culprits termed "Language Steamrollers", as used in the recent BBC series.

Sod it, I'm glad my first language is English.

Eh, if you only knew how a good part of the world sees your Hiberno-English, you wouldn't be so bold...
I think you should speak only your English, Irish is too good for you.