Wife speaking her native language to our kids and I feel alienated

LegacyUser · 30-09-2020 10:08pm #1

Hello Good People,

I know I should be speaking with my Wife about these things rather than posting about it online but I needed to get my thoughts down on paper first and perhaps get some advice and perspective, which would be greatly appriciated.

My ( late twenties ) wife ( early twenties ) of 3 years and I have two girls together, a 3 year old and a newborn. I am Irish, she is from eastern Europe.

It was a whirlwind romance. Married after barely two years, first kid after 3 and now another. I have always wanted a Family and couldn't be happier on that front, becoming and being a Husband and Father is the best thing to every happen to me.

Naturally I always understood that my Wife's native language is not English. However, she has lived here a lof of her life so is completely fluent in English. Her family live here too. She always speaks her native language around them though as they still struggle with it.

My issue ? ( I hate using the word issue ); She speaks her native language to both our kids constantly. Not just a little bit, it's the entire time. I feel alienated and an outsider as a Parent when she does this. I have no idea what shes saying or what they are saying back. In principle and back in the early days I was thinking this would be great, my kids learning two languages natively growing up. They are like sponges at this age. Fast forward 3 years and my Daughter answers me in her Mothers native language even if I speak in English to her. I have made every effort to learn the language and can understand some sentences and most words but it's not an easy language to learn. I have been as opened minded and patient as possible. Put myself in her shoes. Understanding she wants to maintain her heritage with our kids, I am totally ok with that but I had hoped we'd take a hybrid approach. 50/50. That's not the case.

I talk to my kids in English all of the time. I read them Bed time stories, she reads them stories in her language. They call out for the books in my wifes language more than they do with English which then means she's reading to them more.

I just feel a little lost and not entirely included in the parenting of my girls.

I have brought it up a few times, she says she'll try speak English more but it never lasts. I have not brought it up too often because I honestly feel like an ass.

Advice welcomed, thank you

Loveinapril · 01-10-2020 7:32am

To be honest, I would probably let this one go. Most bi- lingual families I know have each parent speak their own native language with the kids,my brother's family included. I think it might be the best way to teach them. You live in Ireland so your childrens' whole lives will be through English soon (school, friends, hobbies and clubs etc.). This is the most they will ever hear their mother's language so why not have them learn when they are learning language in general?!

01-10-2020 7:37am

Consider if you lived in Eastern Europe, wouldn’t you want to teach your kids how to speak English even if your wife didn’t speak it?

Ranjo · 01-10-2020 7:38am

It's a great thing to grow up native tongue of two languages. I suggest that you get on board and learn the language, it is part of your family. You don't need to get fluent but enough to not feel alienated.

As the kids get older they will change to speaking mostly English as they spend more time with other kids.

Tom Mann Centuria · 01-10-2020 7:41am

Do bring it up again, I think if you say what you've said here, to your wife, there nothing arsey about it.

screamer · 01-10-2020 7:44am

My dad is not Irish, but fluent in English too. He never taught us his language, the only time we’d hear it was when he was on the phone to his family, and we equally felt alienated, so I know how you feel.
Looking back as an adult now I can see though, my dad was correct, he told us as kids you’ll never live there, the language will be of no use to you all and better to know your own languages well. ( my dad is from very far away and a little used language these days).
I know exactly the alienation you feel and speak about and I wouldn’t let it go, it’s not right to feel excluded in your own family. I’d let your wife know how it makes you feel, and see if you can have some rules around when which language is spoken, as in if you’re all there, English, if she’s there with the kids herself work away in polish. However, if it’s that strongly a thing for your wife, maybe you need to learn a cupla focail of your wife’s language too, as a compromise.

Alun · 01-10-2020 7:44am

I used to work in a European institution in Germany where we had staff from all over Europe working, and many of those were couples from different countries. So you'd have, for example, an English / French couple with kids attending a school in Germany. The advice from everyone was always to be consistent with language use, and for each parent to communicate with the children in their own native language. Children are very versatile and quick to learn at that age and can grow up bilingual or even trilingual without actually realising it. If you're not consistent, and switch languages, it can cause confusion, and problems down the line.

Mrs OBumble · 01-10-2020 7:48am

Why haven't you learned at least the basics of her language, so that you can communicate with her family?

dvdman1 · 01-10-2020 7:52am

Im in a very similar situation, my wife speaks her native tongue all the time to my kids...

What I've done, is set myself up as the advanced english language tutor.
Yes my wife speaks great english but she doesnt have the full articulation daddy the native speaker has haha
I teach the long articulate language to my kids, ill deliberately use interesting and rare descriptive words. My kids love this as they speak them back to mammy and she becomes lost.

TheBlackPill · 01-10-2020 7:54am

Same situation my house. Perfectly.cool with it. Only.problem is the wife's home culture is a cultural wasteland. The kids will not be using their second language to read great works of literature, but the second language greatly increases their options. >50 million speakers and no westerners(count on two hands)speak the language

Tombo2001 · 01-10-2020 7:57am

My brothers wife did same, but kids never ended up learning the language...

I can see why she is doing it. It is a sensitive issue, handle with care.

irelandrover · 01-10-2020 7:57am

Does your wife stay at home and mind the children? Or are they in daycare?

We are in the same situation. We live abroad and my wife speaks the local language. I only speak English. We have a rule that when the three of us are together we speak English. My child still speaks far more Dutch as that's what she hears in daycare. If we go on holiday its all English and then English becomes her first language.

I think once your child starts school her English will become her main language. I think it would br unreasonable that you don't want your wife speaking her language with the children but a rule that when ye are altogether that ye speak English is fair enough.

Gruffalux · 01-10-2020 7:58am

The best thing is for you to go all out and learn the language even if it is difficult. You are in your 20s and still at a good plastic stage for learning. I try to learn new languages sometimes, most recently Danish, but it doesn't help that remembering why I came into a room can sometimes be a challenge these days! Less of the procrastination - learn the language.

Tombo2001 · 01-10-2020 7:59am

TheBlackPill wrote: »

Same situation my house. Perfectly.cool with it. Only.problem is the wife's home culture is a cultural wasteland. The kids will not be using their second language to read great works of literature, but the second language greatly increases their options. >50 million speakers and no westerners(count on two hands)speak the language

She's a geordie?

TheBlackPill · 01-10-2020 8:08am

Fortunately not. Filipina. Great people but their country has been historically treated badly and exploited.. ie islamic rule, then 400 year of spanish colonialism, then 4 years of Japanese savagery, and lately a client state of the yanks. Think of irish culture post famine and before the Gaelic revival

Treppen · 01-10-2020 8:10am

On a tangent. But your daughter's will have an easy H1 if they take the language in the leaving cert.

Yellow pack crisps · 01-10-2020 8:41am

A speech language expert will always tell you that one parent should speak their native language to their as children as should the other, less confusing for the child, the kids mature and once they start school etc they morph back in to the language of the country they are living in with the added benefit of maintaining a second language. This is a brilliant thing when they are in education doing exams etc. Guaranteed A as they can take their second language as a subject, also it’s a well known fact that once you have a second language it’s easier to learn a third etc. Honestly OP I’d leave it as it’s beneficial to your kids. That’s a sacrifice we sometimes are told about when having kids. If your relationship with your wife is good otherwise then you have no real reason to stop it, it will be worth it when you have bilingual kids.

osarusan · 01-10-2020 9:07am

My perspective as an Irish father married to a Japanese woman who has lived in both countries. We went through the same issues to some extent, although it wasn't contentious like yours seems to be.

Firstly, as long as you are in Ireland then once they go to school, English will take over completely, no matter what your wife does.

I'd leave it to be honest, for a couple for reasons. Firstly, there are real cognitive benefits to bilingualism in infancy, not only in terms of ability to learn even more languages, but also, it activates more regions of the brain and increases general cognitive reserve, and it's even speculated that it can delay the effects of conditions like dementia.

Secondly, it's completely reasonable for her to want them to learn her native language, to be able to communicate with your wife's family, to be more comfortable on trips to her home country, and so on.

Keep doing what you are doing, read and talk to them as much as possible, they are soaking it all up even if they are more comfortable in her native language at the moment. As long as you stay in Ireland, their development as native speakers of english is a certainty. In a few years the issue will by trying to maintain their proficiency in their mother's native language, and all the time put in now (even if you feel excluded in a way) will show its value then.

01-10-2020 10:09am

There is a theory in France that certain dialects didn't die out because the mothers in those areas speak to their children in the language they were spoken to as a child. Not sure how true that is but it makes sense. Personally think you have the capacity to learn the language if this is a real issue for you, it's not like the kids can have a very advanced knowledge of it yet. Surely you can manage to learn enough to read a few kids books?

The real challenge will be when you get the kids into the local gaelscoil, then you can have your revenge.... (joking-ish).

Idle Passerby · 01-10-2020 10:30am

I don't think it's fair to ask a mother not to speak her native tongue to her children, especially when they are so young. Like others have said, English will become their main language once they start school.

You say you've tried to learn it yourself, your eldest is only 3. I'm sure you could become fluent enough to carry a conversation with a 3 year old without too much difficulty.

JPup · 01-10-2020 10:42am

My opinion is that you should not ask your wife to speak her native language less often around the kids. That is unreasonable and would be bad for her and the children and would it really even be better for you? You need to spin your thinking on this around 180 degrees and try to see the positives. As others have said, it's great for the kids to be learning a second language so young. It expands their mind and will make it much easier for them to connect with your wife's family and culture as they get older.

From your point of view there is one very obvious solution staring you in the face. Learn the language! You don't want to be the dummy in the room at family weddings in years to come with everyone else speaking a language that you don't understand. Not trying to be harsh but there's no reason at all you can't pick up at least a good level of comprehension if you try. It'll be good for you too. When you hit a certain age, it's all too easy for us to close our minds to new ideas so pushing your brain in this way would be beneficial for you more generally. Sign up for an online course, download the duolingo app and ask your wife to help you to read some of the kiddie books you have around the house. Once covid has passed, try to take an hour's lesson once a week with a native speaker who isn't your wife. You'll pick it up in no time.

01-10-2020 10:47am

Your wife is absolutely correct. The kids will benefit from this approach and will not only bilingual but will probable master additional languages easier.

Instead of feeling left out, try learning some or make it inclusive.

My wife speaks Spanish to the kids. Despite years of trying, I'm still useless beyond the basics. Guess who translates for me? My 6 and 8 year olds. They jump from one to the other, feel great doing something others struggle with and love being so helpful to their thick father when he ventures out alone.

Of course I survive without them, I'm not that bad but it's a nice experience with my kids who I only see sparingly.

Atlantic Dawn · 01-10-2020 10:49am

Your wife has the correct approach, I think it's great, why haven't you picked it up? I've 2 friends with kids married to foreign women and both are at a good level of fluency in that language now too, they love having the language when interacting with the wife's family back in their country.

01-10-2020 10:55am

Atlantic Dawn wrote: »

Your wife has the correct approach, I think it's great, why haven't you picked it up? I've 2 friends with kids married to foreign women and both are at a good level of fluency in that language now too, they love having the language when interacting with the wife's family back in their country.

People always say this but languages are a skill like all others. I can't speak any other language but have tried many because as you say, it's a great ability to have. I spent 3 years in Spain, attended classes and still can't get it. I'm excellent at other things though.

Emme · 01-10-2020 11:47am

OP have you learnt any of your wife's language? She is right to raise your children bilingual. They will not be a the disadvantage most Irish children are when it comes to learning languages later in life. They will find it easier to pick up other languages now they are bilingual.

My advice: let your wife continue with the children as she is and learn some of her language yourself.

Xterminator · 01-10-2020 12:36pm

Hi Op

I think it is great for the kids if your wife speaks her native language and they are raised bi-lingual. I wont bther quoting sources but suffice it to say it is good for their cognitive development.

It is good for your wife to feel that connection to her home and culture and share that bond with your children. That it is as it should be.

the only downside is how it affects you and how it makes you feel. I think you need to change your mindset. I would advise you start a language course to pick up the language conversationally then you won't be as excluded.

I would point out your wife speaks both languages, and i presume she would like to visit her home at some stage? The whole family would benefit from your participating in this part of your children's life, and not just sitting passively on the sidelines looking in and feeling left out.

strandroad · 01-10-2020 12:36pm

You are excluding yourself by not learning your family's language - your thinking is that it is your wife's language, but it is and will remain your childrens' language too. They all speak it and you should learn it. How come don't you have enough to understand simple repetitive child friendly dialogue yet?

It is recommended practice for each native speaker parent to communicate with children in their native tongue, your wife is not doing anything unusual at all!

Sardonicat · 01-10-2020 12:40pm

Mrs OBumble wrote: »

Why haven't you learned at least the basics of her language, so that you can communicate with her family?

He has

Thelonious Monk · 01-10-2020 12:59pm

Atlantic Dawn wrote: »

Your wife has the correct approach, I think it's great, why haven't you picked it up? I've 2 friends with kids married to foreign women and both are at a good level of fluency in that language now too, they love having the language when interacting with the wife's family back in their country.

We don't know the language, if it's Spanish or French or something I would expect someone to try at least but Asian languages, well I've never met any westerner who can speak any Asian language, far easier said than done.
Anyway my brother's kid is Colombian and the ma speaks Spanish and he speaks English and Spanish and it doesn't seem to cause any issues.
I don't really get why you have a problem with the whole thing OP, it's good for the kids brain to learn 2 languages at an early age.

Emme · 01-10-2020 1:00pm

Thelonious Monk wrote: »

We don't know the language, if it's Spanish or French or something I would expect someone to try at least but Asian languages, well I've never met any westerner who can speak any Asian language.
Anyway my brother's kid is Colombian and the ma speaks Spanish and he speaks English and Spanish and it doesn't seem to cause any issues.
I don't really get why you have a problem with the whole thing OP, it's good for the kids brain to learn 2 languages at an early age.

I think his wife is Polish. That is a difficult language so it's best the children learn it as early as possible.

cannotlogin · 01-10-2020 1:06pm

School is likely to takeover in the long run & English will become the main language.

If your wife can teach them so easily, why can't she teach you too. Aim to become fluent in her language too, learn at that same page as the kids if it seems overwhelming to learn faster.

sammyjo90 · 01-10-2020 1:17pm

She is eastern european so I would assume its a slavic language at least.
They are incredibly hard to learn. I have tried and even the way they teach you is not how different dialects speak.. different grammer etc.

OP as others have said its great for them to learn. Could you ask her to only speak it when u arent around so all 4 of you can talk to eachother? I have seen other families do this
It must be hard to not be able to have a conversation with the whole family if she talks in her language to them all the time even when you are there.

ShamNNspace · 01-10-2020 1:37pm

My opinion, Im older but was in the same boat. From what I see your wife has already made a great sacrifice to opt to live in a country in which the first language is not hers, she has done this for Love and I believe its a small thing to let her speak her language with her children, after all how great it will be in years to come when your children can converse freely with their cousins, granny etc when they go over on holidays, its lovely to see and imv you should aim to improve your own language skills, you have a great chance as you can learn alongside your own children. I think we sometimes forget the sacrifices people make to uproot and make their lives in a society which doesn't communicate in their own language. It can be lonely sometimes no matter how proficient one is in a second language.. I know this from my own life experience. Imv this is not a problem but an opportunity, a great one and you should embrace it you will be happier for it..... My tuppence worth

keano25 · 01-10-2020 1:44pm

Don't worry about it, encourage it.

There's two kids who are friends on our road who's parents are from Lithuania. I often here them speaking, for example Girl A "bla bla bla" saying something in Lithuanian, girl B answering her in English "ya I know"

I think it's fantastic when I hear them, I would love if my kids could speak 2 languages at 10 years of age.

English will take over once they start attending school and everyday life in Ireland.

Tork · 01-10-2020 2:06pm

Do you distrust your wife or think she might want to move back home, by any chance?

sammyjo90 · 01-10-2020 2:27pm

ShamNNspace wrote: »

My opinion, Im older but was in the same boat. From what I see your wife has already made a great sacrifice to opt to live in a country in which the first language is not hers, she has done this for Love and I believe its a small thing to let her speak her language with her children, after all how great it will be in years to come when your children can converse freely with their cousins, granny etc when they go over on holidays, its lovely to see and imv you should aim to improve your own language skills, you have a great chance as you can learn alongside your own children. I think we sometimes forget the sacrifices people make to uproot and make their lives in a society which doesn't communicate in their own language. It can be lonely sometimes no matter how proficient one is in a second language.. I know this from my own life experience. Imv this is not a problem but an opportunity, a great one and you should embrace it you will be happier for it..... My tuppence worth

She did not uproot her life for him and stay in this country for love. It says in the OP she has lived here for many years and so does her family.

ShaShaBear · 01-10-2020 2:28pm

I would definitely back down and re-evaluate, OP. Unless you are actually concerned about the "what" your wife is communicating to them (as opposed to the "how"), there are simply nothing but heaps and heaps of benefits!

Myself and my husband are Irish with only English as a language. We put both our girls into the local Irish school purely to at least attempt to reap some of the rewards of being bilingual (even though I know they won't get the use out of Irish that they might out of French, Polish, Japanese etc). I had a horrific experience with the Irish language in school and wanted better for my kids. They (6 and almost 5) can converse entirely with each other in Irish and will switch on a sixpence to English when speaking to us. When they hit Secondary School, Irish will be easy-peasy and a guaranteed good result in exams, and hopefully the mastering of a second language (and a subject that they don't need to work hard at) will mean they can take a third language that will be easier!

Thelonious Monk · 01-10-2020 3:06pm

:pac:

ShaShaBear wrote: »

I would definitely back down and re-evaluate, OP. Unless you are actually concerned about the "what" your wife is communicating to them (as opposed to the "how"), there are simply nothing but heaps and heaps of benefits!

Myself and my husband are Irish with only English as a language. We put both our girls into the local Irish school purely to at least attempt to reap some of the rewards of being bilingual (even though I know they won't get the use out of Irish that they might out of French, Polish, Japanese etc). I had a horrific experience with the Irish language in school and wanted better for my kids. They (6 and almost 5) can converse entirely with each other in Irish and will switch on a sixpence to English when speaking to us. When they hit Secondary School, Irish will be easy-peasy and a guaranteed good result in exams, and hopefully the mastering of a second language (and a subject that they don't need to work hard at) will mean they can take a third language that will be easier!

Yes I went to an Irish school and was fluent back in the day, it really makes languages easier to learn as you get older as you have this innate understanding of language and how it works.
The OP's kids are lucky that they'll be bilingual.

bobbyy gee · 01-10-2020 3:09pm

Learn the language as well

ShamNNspace · 01-10-2020 3:12pm

sammyjo90 wrote: »

She did not uproot her life for him and stay in this country for love. It says in the OP she has lived here for many years and so does her family.

I probably should have worded it better but what I said was she opted to stay here and make her life here, up to that point the option was there to return. While her immediate family may be here I doubt her extended family all live here

Thelonious Monk · 01-10-2020 3:29pm

bobbyy gee wrote: »

Learn the language as well

Asking someone to learn Polish at that stage in his life is too much

LegacyUser · 01-10-2020 3:50pm

Amazing for your kids to have two languages already, it will only benefit them in the long term.

Your wife may live here and speak English but she wants her kids to know and love her culture as well as their Irish culture. If her family don't speak English as well as her I can understand her wanting the kids to learn the language and also if you go visit her country in the future or your kids go when they are older its nice for them to know the language and have a connection to the country. I wish more Irish people felt the same about learning Irish. Have you considered learning the language yourself OP? Even just some basic words so you can chat to your in-laws more? I get feeling left out but there are going to be activities you do in Ireland as the kids grow that your wife won't have grown up with as a child that she might feel she can't connect to and you will find that you share different things with your kids. My mum use to get annoyed at me and my dad laughing over jokes we made up together that she didn't get

My friend is German and married to Pole living in Ireland and he has a child from another relationship with a Danish girl so couple that with speaking English and going to a Gealscoil his kids are speaking so many languages it would make your head spin.

sammyjo90 · 01-10-2020 3:51pm

Thelonious Monk wrote: »

Asking someone to learn Polish at that stage in his life is too much

And he has tried! I tried a few years ago and got absolutely nowhere and I was great at language in school.

As i said before..if the OP is feeling left out of conversation with his kids as a whole family i think he is perfectly ok to raise it with his wife.
He shouldnt stop them learning it but i think it's unfair of his wife to expect the kids to talk in a language around him he cant understand.
Would people be ok if everytime your whole family sits down to dinner you can't understand anyone?

strandroad · 01-10-2020 4:29pm

Thelonious Monk wrote: »

Asking someone to learn Polish at that stage in his life is too much

He's going to miss out on half of his childrens' lives if he doesn't!

TheBlackPill · 01-10-2020 4:40pm

Thelonious Monk wrote: »

Asking someone to learn Polish at that stage in his life is too much

would love to read and appreciate Stanislaw Lem in the mother tongue. Translations are excellent

Thelonious Monk · 01-10-2020 4:40pm

strandroad wrote: »

He's going to miss out on half of his childrens' lives if he doesn't!

He's not, and no one ever learns Polish, and even if he did learn it it would take probably 5 or 10 years to speak it properly.
Europeans are immersed in English from a very young age nowadays, all popular culture is in English, for an English speaker to learn Polish properly would be very unheard of, it's nigh impossible without dedicating yourself totally. This is coming from someone who has been learning Spanish on and off for about 15 years and I would still only have a basic enough level of speaking and understanding.

screamer · 01-10-2020 4:45pm

strandroad wrote: »

He's going to miss out on half of his childrens' lives if he doesn't!

Oh what bull, he’ll only miss out if this mammy only speaks in her language, daddy only speaks in his. OP I think everyone is full of ideals in this thread, but really I don’t think it’s the language spoken but the fact that you feel excluded. That’s not right and it’s not sustainable or justifiable just so the kids are bi-lingual. There definitely needs to be some rules around what language is spoken when at home, nothing is worth feeling alienated in your own home over.

Dial Hard · 01-10-2020 4:51pm

screamer wrote: »

There definitely needs to be some rules around what language is spoken when at home, nothing is worth feeling alienated in your own home over.

If I was living in a foreign country, married to someone from that country and raising kids in that country and my partner tried to implement 'rules' about speaking my native tongue to my children at home, I would be having serious words with them about their misplaced sense of entitlement.

sammyjo90 · 01-10-2020 5:22pm

Dial Hard wrote: »

If I was living in a foreign country, married to someone from that country and raising kids in that country and my partner tried to implement 'rules' about speaking my native tongue to my children at home, I would be having serious words with them about their misplaced sense of entitlement.

I wouldnt call it a rule as such. A compromise at best.

Every time his child speaks to him now she replies in another language that he cant understand. He essentially is left out of all conversations when they are all together as a family. I dont see how asking for him to be included in conversations is asking for too much. Would you not want to bond with your kids as a whole unit? Not just when the other parent isnt there?

CelticRambler · 01-10-2020 6:39pm

Thelonious Monk wrote: »

Asking someone to learn Polish at that stage in his life is too much

How old is too old? :eek: The biggest impediment to learning another language is attitude and lack of opportunity to hear and speak it in daily life. This is the main reason why the continentals have so much of an advantage in learning English compared to those reared in an anglophone country - they can access spoken and written English so much more easily in even remote parts of their countries than someone in Cork or Dublin can tune in to [insert any foreign language here]

@OP : I understand your position, having been the other parent in that situation. In our case, it wasn't the fact that the children's mother and I spoke different languages - we're both native English speakers - but we moved to France, the children rapidly took their very limited vocab to new levels, and me being the competitive parent refused to let them overtake me, so we were all speaking French to each other ... except for MrsCR, who just couldn't get into it and felt excluded from what I was doing with the children.

There is, however, only one way for you to resolve this constructively, and that's the one that's been pointed out by so many other posters: improve your own understanding of the language. Use the children's books, get your wife to explain the sentences to you in exactly the same way that she teaches the children. Don't try to learn it, just use it - mistakes and all - and take advantage of the presence of three native speakers in the house to tune your ear to the sounds of the words and phrases.

MissShihTzu · 01-10-2020 6:40pm

I do understand, OP. But this will be beneficial to your children. Why deny them the opportunity to learn another language? And who better to teach them than Mum??

My godson's a good case in point. He's English with a French dad. His grandfather is Greek Cypriot. Guess what? We spoke to him in English, his father in French and his Grandad in Greek. He was a bit slow to speak as he understood all three but couldn't really communicate in any of them.

The result? Bi-lingual in French and English. Good working knowledge of Greek. It's really helped his job prospects. The same with his brother too!

I'd let it go, OP. Oh - and get a decent language course and practice speaking the language with your wife. Get the kids involved too - It'll be fun for all of you!

Wife speaking her native language to our kids and I feel alienated

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