Help: New Development with Mgt Company? (Newcastle,Co Dublin)

Tom_Walsh · 30-11-2020 9:55pm

dubrov wrote: »

I guess that's an advantage of buying into an older estate. You can see if things are maintained without a management company before you buy.
If not, it is usually a warning to stay clear.

Yes great point my parents bought in Naas in a lovely estate with big green area and nice landscaping. Bought 25 years ago app and builder looked after estate until council took charge. Something like that is ideal in my eyes, suppose its all part of the learning process in buying a house! Thanks

Tom_Walsh · 30-11-2020 10:00pm

Cyrus wrote: »

i think you need to figure out if the CoCo are ever taking it in charge, id suggest they probably arent. I live in a similar sized estate and part of the planning was that there would be an OMC set up and the common areas wouldnt be taken in charge, we have our bins managed centrally (with a seperate shed with large bins rather than everyone having bins line up outside their house) some electricity, some insurances, landscaping and then the fee for the mgt co that we have appointed as well.

The biggest costs are a prof mgt co circa 3.5k per annum (you dont have to do it, but you are relying on a volunteer from the residents), audit 1.5k per annum, landscaping 4.5k and bins circa 4k that alone spread over 20 houses is 675, there are other smaller costs so ours is generally 1k per annum. And we have done a lot of extra landscaping ourselves as residents aswell.

Co Co not taking it in charge isnt any reflection on the build quality, its just not nearly as common as it was, especially on smaller infill sites.

Yes its actually not in the planning that a mangement company is required. The builder has decided this themselves that one must be set up. If it was in planning permission i would not mind as much. Thats a great breakdown of potential costs. Is the insurance you pay like public liability insurance? Say if someone falls over in the estate? And do you pay for the electricity for the street lights? I like the idea of bins being lined up outside the houses in fairness. The reason i said Co Council not taking in charge is to my knowledge they would only take charge of the estate after they have an engineer/surveyor come out to the estate to inspect same and the quality of the roads, footpaths, drainage, common areas etc. I could be wrong. Thanks again very insightful

Cyrus · 01-12-2020 11:27am

Tom_Walsh wrote: »

Yes its actually not in the planning that a mangement company is required. The builder has decided this themselves that one must be set up. If it was in planning permission i would not mind as much. Thats a great breakdown of potential costs. Is the insurance you pay like public liability insurance? Say if someone falls over in the estate? And do you pay for the electricity for the street lights? I like the idea of bins being lined up outside the houses in fairness. The reason i said Co Council not taking in charge is to my knowledge they would only take charge of the estate after they have an engineer/surveyor come out to the estate to inspect same and the quality of the roads, footpaths, drainage, common areas etc. I could be wrong. Thanks again very insightful

id ask the agent or the builder if you can is the council taking the estate in charge in the future, thats the easiest way to find out.

Yes the insurance is public liability and also insurance for the residents who act as directors. We pay the street light electricty and maintenance.

SwimClub · 07-12-2020 9:22pm

I just assumed this was a scam by the builders, I'd never buy into a place with a maintenance fee, the other issue with new builds is lack of garden and chance of being overlooked by apartments in phase N. The people on here for maintenance fees are surely builders.

Caranica · 07-12-2020 9:34pm

SwimClub wrote: »

I just assumed this was a scam by the builders, I'd never buy into a place with a maintenance fee, the other issue with new builds is lack of garden and chance of being overlooked by apartments in phase N. The people on here for maintenance fees are surely builders.

Absolute nonsense. I'm a director in a managed development. An owner occupier who has no connection to any builder. I just care enough about my investment and my development to have gotten involved to protect the interests of all owners in the development.

SwimClub · 07-12-2020 10:26pm

Caranica wrote: »

Absolute nonsense. I'm a director in a managed development. An owner occupier who has no connection to any builder. I just care enough about my investment and my development to have gotten involved to protect the interests of all owners in the development.

And none of these are set up by builders as an ongoing stream of cash for themselves. They are so noble that they too want to "protect the interests of all owners in the development" even after they've sold the properties. Such a virtuous lobby in Ireland.

Caranica · 07-12-2020 10:31pm

SwimClub wrote: »

And none of these are set up by builders as an ongoing stream of cash for themselves. They are so noble that they too want to "protect the interests of all owners in the development" even after they've sold the properties. Such a virtuous lobby in Ireland.

Our builders moved out when all the properties were sold, the builders don't get the fees, never did. The management company is independent of the developers and ours had an independent management agent from Day 1. Sounds to me like you need to do a little reading as you don't know what you're talking about.

Graham · 07-12-2020 10:54pm

SwimClub wrote: »

I just assumed this was a scam by the builders, I'd never buy into a place with a maintenance fee, the other issue with new builds is lack of garden and chance of being overlooked by apartments in phase N. The people on here for maintenance fees are surely builders.

You would be wrong.

Each development has an Owners Management Company (OMC). The builder is required to setup the OMC for the development ready for transfer to the owners.

The OMC is owned by the homeowners, one home = 1 share / 1vote.

The builders don't set the fees. The builders don't get the fees. The OMC does.

Each OMC appoints its own directors and sets its own fees.

SwimClub · 07-12-2020 11:41pm

So what has changed versus the majority of older houses that don't have a service charge?
You get to live in an area with generic tidy landscaping policed by busybody neighbours with too much time on their hands and pay over 1k per annum for the privilege. No thank you!

SwimClub · 07-12-2020 11:43pm

Or you are in a development with mixed apartments and houses and are subsidising the fees for their lifts etc.

Graham · 08-12-2020 12:15am

SwimClub wrote: »

Or you are in a development with mixed apartments and houses and are subsidising the fees for their lifts etc.

It is common for houses and apartments to have different management fees precisely for that reason.

DaveyDave · 08-12-2020 12:20am

Personally I don't agree with management companies. I live in West Dublin, SDCC have planning requirements where 40% of houses aren't allowed have private driveways, so no gardens and parking spaces require planting between every 5 parking spaces or 3 parallel spaces, they're forcing estates to be built with shrubs and trees that will 100% require serious upkeep and I'm not a fan. It seems they're being designed to not be taken over. We even have to pay to rent the equipment for electric car charging, that the council required in 10% of all parking.

If you're buying a house in a small development it shouldn't be too bad as there shouldn't be many issues in the future. My estate is large and has several apartment blocks, we had to get parking enforcement because apartments kept taking housing private parking spaces. Smaller developments shouldn't have these issues other than general upkeep.

Graham wrote: »

It is common for houses and apartments to have different management fees precisely for that reason.

Exactly and it should be clearly laid out in the budget. My estate has blocks of apartments and duplexes, they both pay additional fees for insurance, maintenance, lifts, cleaning etc then there's a common fee that everyone pays for landscaping, bins etc.

Cyrus · 08-12-2020 8:27am

SwimClub wrote: »

So what has changed versus the majority of older houses that don't have a service charge?
You get to live in an area with generic tidy landscaping policed by busybody neighbours with too much time on their hands and pay over 1k per annum for the privilege. No thank you!

It’s been established that you don’t know what you are talking about so why continue with it ?

SwimClub · 08-12-2020 9:34am

Cyrus wrote: »

It’s been established that you don’t know what you are talking about so why continue with it ?

What is clear is that a lot of people are on here defending maintenance fees.

A recent poster points out that the council are implementing planning laws that impact on them. So the `follow the money approach' is leading to some answers now.

They are clearly not something the majority of people want, people want houses with gardens not shared common areas that require maintenance.

They are forced into these maintenance fees, another bill for life for which you get very little over someone in a house that doesn't have to pay them.

They seem to be a result of these high density setups. You're in your living room with someone arriving into the shared parking space outside the front of your house with full beam lights on late at night.

How many builders are living in houses like these I wonder.

Cyrus · 08-12-2020 10:45am

SwimClub wrote: »

What is clear is that a lot of people are on here defending maintenance fees.

A recent poster points out that the council are implementing planning laws that impact on them. So the `follow the money approach' is leading to some answers now.

They are clearly not something the majority of people want, people want houses with gardens not shared common areas that require maintenance.

They are forced into these maintenance fees, another bill for life for which you get very little over someone in a house that doesn't have to pay them.

They seem to be a result of these high density setups. You're in your living room with someone arriving into the shared parking space outside the front of your house with full beam lights on late at night.

How many builders are living in houses like these I wonder.

take off your tin foil hat, the responses you are getting are from people who know what they are talking about.

and no one is forced is buy a house in a new estate.

builders get nothing out of these OMCs, its the council that is saving money on maintaining the common areas.

SwimClub · 08-12-2020 11:08am

Cyrus wrote: »

take off your tin foil hat, the responses you are getting are from people who know what they are talking about.

and no one is forced is buy a house in a new estate.

builders get nothing out of these OMCs, its the council that is saving money on maintaining the common areas.

And the builders that profit from squeezing 10 houses and and apartment block into a site where before there would be 10 houses with gardens.

dubrov · 08-12-2020 11:15am

You are both partially right.
Councils are using it as a means to save money. Not only do they load taxes onto new homes but then they welch on providing services to these new homes. It seems completely unfair that the council will look after insurance/street lighting etc. in one estate but not another.

There is definitely a lot of waste with management fees, even in well run developments. The paperwork and organising insurance/bills etc all takes time and costs money. In poorly run developments managing agents can take over and fees skyrocket. I have seen north of 3k fees for a 2 bed apartment with a lift but no outside common areas in Dublin city centre.

In addition to the above, there are stories of where builders have retained large numbers of units within developments. As each unit has a vote, they effectively retain control of the management company and can appoint whoever they want to run it. Obviously other members can take the builder to court if they think they are using it as a personal piggy bank but this can be costly and difficult to prove.

Personally I would avoid management fees if I could. New builds have a lot going for them though (A-rated, young families in area) but you have to trade that off against mgt fees, tiny gardens and more expensive

Cyrus · 08-12-2020 11:38am

dubrov wrote: »

You are both partially right.
Councils are using it as a means to save money. Not only do they load taxes onto new homes but then they welch on providing services to these new homes. It seems completely unfair that the council will look after insurance/street lighting etc. in one estate but not another.

There is definitely a lot of waste with management fees, even in well run developments. The paperwork and organising insurance/bills etc all takes time and costs money. In poorly run developments managing agents can take over and fees skyrocket. I have seen north of 3k fees for a 2 bed apartment with a lift but no outside common areas in Dublin city centre.

In addition to the above, there are stories of where builders have retained large numbers of units within developments. As each unit has a vote, they effectively retain control of the management company and can appoint whoever they want to run it. Obviously other members can take the builder to court if they think they are using it as a personal piggy bank but this can be costly and difficult to prove.

Personally I would avoid management fees if I could. New builds have a lot going for them though (A-rated, young families in area) but you have to trade that off against mgt fees, tiny gardens and more expensive

not all new builds have tiny gardens. my new build has a decent sized garden, no apartments and only 20 houses, its a configuration that works for me, and comparing what i paid for the house against what i had bid on other older houses in the area that needed extensive refurbishment and extending it was a better financial choice. sure i dont have a 90m long back garden but i dont really need one either.

the OMC here is run very well but you are right there are costs associated such as the appt of a management agent which will cost 3.5k a year and insurances but on the flip side we get to maintain the place as wish, the landscaping is excellent and its brings the neighbours together, generally anyway.

thats not always the case but people dont have to buy anywhere, they can weigh up all the factors and make a decision that suits them.

Cyrus · 08-12-2020 11:39am

SwimClub wrote: »

And the builders that profit from squeezing 10 houses and and apartment block into a site where before there would be 10 houses with gardens.

again the councils have minimum density requirements now, im sure the builders dont mind either but the day of builders building houses with massive back gardens is gone for now, you wont get planning.

SEPT 23 1989 · 08-12-2020 1:17pm

It took 10 years for the council to take over the roads and lights in my estate there is still a management company for cutting grass etc

Graham · 09-12-2020 12:46am

Mod Note

SwimClub, housing densities are not relevant to this thread. If you wish to discuss housing densities for new development please start a new thread.

Thanks

Do not reply to this post.

Help: New Development with Mgt Company? (Newcastle,Co Dublin)

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