Help: New Development with Mgt Company? (Newcastle,Co Dublin)

Tom_Walsh

Hi All,

Hoping someone can over me some guidance on this. We are currently thinking of buying in this new development from Pavement Homes in Newcastle, Co Dublin (saint Finians Way, Newcastle South). All the talks with the agent were going well but now we are being told that there is going to be a management company set up.

It's an 'exclusive' new development of just 18 homes - all 3 and 4 bed to my knowledge, no apartments. I am surprised to hear of a management company? I assumed new build estates would be maintained by the builder until taken in charge by the local county council?

I feel like it will be a lot of added stress now having an Owners management company and paying yearly charges/fees on top of our mortgage. In reality there are not a lot of common areas apart from a small green area/proposed playground.

It seems pointless and unnecessary setting up a mangement company for the 18 new home owners, registering a business, paying an accountant, potentially being a director, chasing management fees, attending meetings etc. Should the Builder not maintain the common areas until council take charge?

Any help/advice is greatly appreciated. Or if your buying in this development please let me know how you feel about this?

godtabh

It’s your issue not there’s. If you don’t want the hassle go else where.

SDCC are very pro active about taking in charge if built right. I’d question that

Caranica

Lots of house only developments have management companies, the days of Councils taking every development in charge or long gone. Even when they do take some elements in charge, they often don't take landscaping and car parks in charge so you would need a management company to administer those on a statutory basis.

Tom_Walsh

godtabh wrote: »

It’s your issue not there’s. If you don’t want the hassle go else where.

SDCC are very pro active about taking in charge if built right. I’d question that

I am well aware of this, I am just asking is this a common practice in the housing industry! Something we could push back on. No need to be so blunt! No point in commenting with the negativity!

Tom_Walsh

Caranica wrote: »

Lots of house only developments have management companies, the days of Councils taking every development in charge or long gone. Even when they do take some elements in charge, they often don't take landscaping and car parks in charge so you would need a management company to administer those on a statutory basis.

Thanks Caranica - good to know that it is more common than i thought. We are FTB so just assumed council would be looking after the upkeep. The additional cost of an OMC is just something we had not planned for so wanted some opinions to gain a better understanding. Thanks again!

Tom_Walsh

godtabh wrote: »

It’s your issue not there’s. If you don’t want the hassle go else where.

SDCC are very pro active about taking in charge if built right. I’d question that

It might be worth us reaching out to SDCC to see how many years it might take for them to take charge of the estate - what do you think?

DubLad69

I would much rather a management company. I'm buying a house now that will be taken in charge by Kildare CoCo and am worried about the standard they will maintain it at.

At least with a management co you have some control

cronos

I would suggest trying to use it as a group buying mechanism. Like group window cleaning etc... ours does that and it's useful... also ours covers bins...

dubrov

If there is a management company being setup, I doubt that SDCC will ever take the public areas in charge.

It's fairly common in dublin now for new developments to have a management company.

It is a real negative for new build estates. Whatever the builder is telling you the fees are, they will likely be double that long term.

You'll need to weigh up if it is worth it to get a new build house. An older estate around the corner might have much more public space with no management fee

Tom_Walsh

DubLad69 wrote: »

I would much rather a management company. I'm buying a house now that will be taken in charge by Kildare CoCo and am worried about the standard they will maintain it at.

At least with a management co you have some control

Fair point but with such a small estate (18 homes) you would not expect that much work is required for the builder to maintain before SDCC take charge. With a new estate your would expect roads, kerbs, footpaths etc to be good for at least 10+ years. So its literally cutting the grass. Thanks thought for the comment, seems like it's not as bas as i initially thought.

Tom_Walsh

cronos wrote: »

I would suggest trying to use it as a group buying mechanism. Like group window cleaning etc... ours does that and it's useful... also ours covers bins...

Thats another good point/positive. Thanks

Tom_Walsh

dubrov wrote: »

If there is a management company being setup, I doubt that SDCC will ever take the public areas in charge.

It's fairly common in dublin now for new developments to have a management company.

It is a real negative for new build estates. Whatever the builder is telling you the fees are, they will likely be double that long term.

You'll need to weigh up if it is worth it to get a new build house. An older estate around the corner might have much more public space with no management fee

This is it. I might check on some of the other new developments in Newcastle, Rathcoole to see if there is management fees. Did not realise it was common. Like you take a loan of say 300K or 1100 PM to buy a house for 350-380K. A Mgt Fee of 100e PM will be 12K Per annum or 32K over term of mortgage. So like you said maybe look at second hand now. Pros and cons to both, good point thank you! Obviously no HTB and A Rating so higher energy costs, the Joys!

Wildly Boaring

In Meath a new estate
Builder cut grass for one year.
Looking like Meath will take over after 2 or 2.5.
They will not landscape.

We do not have a management company.
The residents have formed a management committee.
A company has been voted against by a considerable margin.

The committee have hired a guy to cut the grass.
It's coming in at 200 annually.
Will obviously have to contribute if upkeep outside Meath remit occurs.

Meath will be responsible for public lighting, sewers, drainage. That's about it as far as I can see.
A council taking in charge is not the big bonus it once was.

dubrov

I assume they own the shared areas as well and will cover insurance. This is key as it means you don't need a management company then with all the associated administrative costs.

Your management fee would be likely 3 times higher without the council

Wildly Boaring

dubrov wrote: »

I assume they own the shares areas as well and will cover insurance. This is key as it means you don't need a management company then with all the associated administrative costs.

Your management fee would be likely 3 times higher without the council

Yes.
Got it one.
And they take a hammering for it unfortunately.
Plenty claims in recent years have paid out substantial sums for cuts and bruises on green areas

Tom_Walsh

Wildly Boaring wrote: »

In Meath a new estate
Builder cut grass for one year.
Looking like Meath will take over after 2 or 2.5.
They will not landscape.

We do not have a management company.
The residents have formed a management committee.
A company has been voted against by a considerable margin.

The committee have hired a guy to cut the grass.
It's coming in at 200 annually.
Will obviously have to contribute if upkeep outside Meath remit occurs.

Meath will be responsible for public lighting, sewers, drainage. That's about it as far as I can see.
A council taking in charge is not the big bonus it once was.

Yeah this situation seems ideal. No owners management company, just a committee. So you don't have to register a company, pay for insurance, pay an accountant etc. Just seem like stress that you don't want when buying your first home! Thanks for the post man!

Tom_Walsh

dubrov wrote: »

I assume they own the shared areas as well and will cover insurance. This is key as it means you don't need a management company then with all the associated administrative costs.

Your management fee would be likely 3 times higher without the council

Exactly. I know it is hard to tell but what would you estimate for a small 18 house development with only a small common green area. Looking at minimum 50e PM anyways ? Thanks

kippy

Management companies and all of the BS around them are the one of the many failures of housing policy in the past two decades, particularly when you:
1. Pay a housing tax.
2. The developer paid significant fees to the council on building etc.
The whole are is a disaster if you ask me and mainly because of the overhead costs.

In a previous estate, of 20 odd semi and terraced houses we would have paid about 600,per annum which covered minimal grass cutting, and feck all else, mostly admin, insurance and ESB for lights. External house maintenance to a point was covered but painting usually a bigger amount of money every five years. The place hadn't been taken in charge and the developer was long outta business.
Where we are now there's no management company as the council have taken the shared areas, lights etc in charge but we pay 150 or so a year into fund grass cutting, tree maintenance, flower planting etc on a much bigger scale than last estate with about 30 detached houses.
So I think a mix is a good option, council take in charge but residents manage most of the maintenance.
I know places with apartments and bigger mixed estates have much higher fees as well as bills with lifts, on site sewerage systems etc often having to be paid for by residents.

Anyway, if you are going in with your eyes open( you have been told there is a management fee/structue) don't assume it's a short term thing.

Tom_Walsh

kippy wrote: »

Management companies and all of the BS around them are the one of the many failures of housing policy in the past two decades, particularly when you:
1. Pay a housing tax.
2. The developer paid significant fees to the council on building etc.
The whole are is a disaster if you ask me and mainly because of the overhead costs.

In a previous estate, of 20 odd semi and terraced houses we would have paid about 600,per annum which covered minimal grass cutting, and feck all else, mostly admin, insurance and ESB for lights. External house maintenance to a point was covered but painting usually a bigger amount of money every five years. The place hadn't been taken in charge and the developer was long outta business.
Where we are now there's no management company as the council have taken the shared areas, lights etc in charge but we pay 150 or so a year into fund grass cutting, tree maintenance, flower planting etc on a much bigger scale than last estate with about 30 detached houses.
So I think a mix is a good option, council take in charge but residents manage most of the maintenance.
I know places with apartments and bigger mixed estates have much higher fees as well as bills with lifts, on site sewerage systems etc often having to be paid for by residents.

Anyway, if you are going in with your eyes open( you have been told there is a management fee/structue) don't assume it's a short term thing.

This is excellent help, many thanks for writing. I honestly think it will stop us from proceeding. As you mentioned above its just BS really. Your second house you ended up in sounds like the more ideal scenario. Paying app 600e Per annum for not much i'd imagine it will be! And i could end up being sucked into becoming a director as that's in my nature. Thanks again really insightful!

kippy

Tom_Walsh wrote: »

This is excellent help, many thanks for writing. I honestly think it will stop us from proceeding. As you mentioned above its just BS really. Your second house you ended up in sounds like the more ideal scenario. Paying app 600e Per annum for not much i'd imagine it will be! And i could end up being sucked into becoming a director as that's in my nature. Thanks again really insightful!

No problem.
I'd say that the biggest challenge is getting the council to take parts of the estate/the estate in charge. Often times there are things the builder has over looked or not fully completed that stop the council doing this.

The second estate is definetly the best case scenario but I do know a good few residents put in a lot of work to make sure the council took responsibility for the tricky parts. As I said, there's a LOT more shared area and a lot more landscaping than the old estate so the €150 that goes to the 2 person (voluntary) residents committe is well spent.
A lot of these issues are made worse/better by the people in the estate and what they can and will do to improve things for the entire estate.

The issue with the first estate was essentially no one knew or was able to do what was needed to get the council involved and the management agent (who definely had the wherwithall to assist) didn't have an encentive to do this.

Caranica

Tom_Walsh wrote: »

Yeah this situation seems ideal. No owners management company, just a committee. So you don't have to register a company, pay for insurance, pay an accountant etc. Just seem like stress that you don't want when buying your first home! Thanks for the post man!

You're very wrong if you think that is ideal. A committee has no statutory basis, a management company does. You sign legal documents committing to pay management fees and they are 100% enforceable. Residents committee contributions are not.

Management fees for house only developments are rarely huge, a couple of hundred euro a year. Small price to pay to keep your development looking attractive and help keep property values up.

Wildly Boaring

None of the companies I know of only are changing 200 quid. 3 or 4 times that

kippy

Caranica wrote: »

You're very wrong if you think that is ideal. A committee has no statutory basis, a management company does. You sign legal documents committing to pay management fees and they are 100% enforceable. Residents committee contributions are not.

Management fees for house only developments are rarely huge, a couple of hundred euro a year. Small price to pay to keep your development looking attractive and help keep property values up.

I'm not aware of any management companies that keep their fees that low......
Not to say it isn't happenig out there but it's hard to see how.
The management agents fees on a regular year would go into a couple of grand, fairly easily.

Agree with you on the "ideal" scenario. However as I said, a lot of how easy these things are in practice are down to the people and the type of estate.

dubrov

Caranica wrote: »

Management fees for house only developments are rarely huge, a couple of hundred euro a year. Small price to pay to keep your development looking attractive and help keep property values up.

I doubt there is a management fee in the country only costing 200 per year. Even if it delivered zero services, that sort of fee would be absorbed pretty quickly on the administrative side. Think annual report filings, audits, GDPR, dealing with members etc.

It is sad to see that councils have penny-pinched to save on costs for new developments even though their economy of scale could deliver the same thing for a fraction of the price.

irlrobins

Tom_Walsh wrote: »

This is it. I might check on some of the other new developments in Newcastle, Rathcoole to see if there is management fees. Did not realise it was common. Like you take a loan of say 300K or 1100 PM to buy a house for 350-380K. A Mgt Fee of 100e PM will be 12K Per annum or 32K over term of mortgage. So like you said maybe look at second hand now. Pros and cons to both, good point thank you! Obviously no HTB and A Rating so higher energy costs, the Joys!

Unlikely that your Management Fees are going to be anywhere near €100 a month. My house in an estate in Dublin is €600 for the year, but that includes all waste charges. If each house in your estate has their own bins, then you're prob talking €300-400 a year, maybe less.

Main expenses on the OMC would be

• Electricity for public lighting
• Landscaping
• Insurance
• Administration (accountants, etc)
• Maintenance
• Sinking fund contribution
• Security/CCTV

The OMC could save money by not appointing a management agent and deal with contractors directly, but that assumes one or more owners are happy to take this on without compensation.

And as others pointed out, it's pretty much the norm to have an OMC in new developments, even if they are houses only.

Tom_Walsh

kippy wrote: »

No problem.
I'd say that the biggest challenge is getting the council to take parts of the estate/the estate in charge. Often times there are things the builder has over looked or not fully completed that stop the council doing this.

The second estate is definetly the best case scenario but I do know a good few residents put in a lot of work to make sure the council took responsibility for the tricky parts. As I said, there's a LOT more shared area and a lot more landscaping than the old estate so the €150 that goes to the 2 person (voluntary) residents committe is well spent.
A lot of these issues are made worse/better by the people in the estate and what they can and will do to improve things for the entire estate.

The issue with the first estate was essentially no one knew or was able to do what was needed to get the council involved and the management agent (who definely had the wherwithall to assist) didn't have an encentive to do this.

Thats the thing , you don't know what builder your getting. They might build you your house and as soon as last one is sold they are gone and never to be heard. OMC picks up the pieces for any works not completed to a high / safe standard.

100% agree it's going to help with the characters living in the estate and there willingness to help. I have no issues helping with a residents association but OMC just seems like different ball game. I know people are saying its the new norm but i know of multiple developments at the moment where builder is maintaining estate until council take over same. Think i'll look into those, thanks again

Tom_Walsh

Caranica wrote: »

You're very wrong if you think that is ideal. A committee has no statutory basis, a management company does. You sign legal documents committing to pay management fees and they are 100% enforceable. Residents committee contributions are not.

Management fees for house only developments are rarely huge, a couple of hundred euro a year. Small price to pay to keep your development looking attractive and help keep property values up.

I suppose the ideal scenario in my opinion is the builder maintains their work until council take charge. If your spending 370K on a house the last thing you want to do is start paying for the electricity on the street and the landscaping of the area - you've just spent your life savings and taking a massive mortgage for 35 years. Your taking on a big monthly repayment you dont want another 50-100e extra on top of that. Thats the way i feel anyways, I have no interest in chasing people people for management fees trying to enforce it. Couple of hundred a year seems way off too IMO when you think of the things that need to be covered - insurance, registering business name, accounting fees, electricity, maintenance, landscaping....potential road, kerb, footpath work down the line all between 18 households. I think more like 70-100 PM.

Tom_Walsh

Wildly Boaring wrote: »

None of the companies I know of only are changing 200 quid. 3 or 4 times that

^^^This , ive only ever heard of mgt fees being around 800-2K per annume

Tom_Walsh

irlrobins wrote: »

Unlikely that your Management Fees are going to be anywhere near €100 a month. My house in an estate in Dublin is €600 for the year, but that includes all waste charges. If each house in your estate has their own bins, then you're prob talking €300-400 a year, maybe less.

Main expenses on the OMC would be

• Electricity for public lighting
• Landscaping
• Insurance
• Administration (accountants, etc)
• Maintenance
• Sinking fund contribution
• Security/CCTV

The OMC could save money by not appointing a management agent and deal with contractors directly, but that assumes one or more owners are happy to take this on without compensation.

And as others pointed out, it's pretty much the norm to have an OMC in new developments, even if they are houses only.

Very good and useful post thanks for sharing. Appreciate that

Graham

Tom_Walsh wrote: »

^^^This , ive only ever heard of mgt fees being around 800-2K per annume

That sounds more like apartment service charges that a house on an estate.

kippy

Graham wrote: »

That sounds more like apartment service charges that a house on an estate.

Same difference really. Last place I was in, very small estate 18 or 20 houses, very little greenery. 600 odd per year and had been going up.
Once you have an agent involved you are probably looking at a fee of no less than 2k per annum (which is roughly what our estate were paying)
Granted apartment blocks can be significantly lower cost per unit paid to agent but generally more costs for stuff like lifts, shared fire and security equipment etc.

Caranica

Our development is a flat budget split based on size rather than type of unit. But I know that the one after us split fees per unit type and houses are paying circa 400 euro. That includes bins.

You're better off paying 400 a year with a management company where the 400 can be legally enforced than asking houses to pay 200 voluntarily and collecting half if you're lucky. It makes for very bad blood with neighbours when someone refuses to pay residents association fees. When an agent handles it it is not personal. I'm a director of our management company and they've had to take some owners to court for fees, the agent handles it. It's not that the guy 5 doors down knows that I'm the one who signed the documents with the solicitor to seek the judgement.

Bear in mind that the developer will be liable for the costs involved to establish the company. And as I've previously mentioned, the Council is unlikely to take over landscaping and other elements so there will still be a cost for owners beyond taking in charge.

ec18

having bought in one of pavement homes estates, you'll be left in limbo with them saying the council will take it over and maintain the common areas and the council saying they haven't. Word of advice make sure everything is ship shape before you close the deal, they are a nightmare to get back to fix anything. we closed after they said they'd fix some stuff after closing more fool us and some of out neighbours

Del2005

kippy wrote: »

Management companies and all of the BS around them are the one of the many failures of housing policy in the past two decades, particularly when you:
1. Pay a housing tax.
2. The developer paid significant fees to the council on building etc.
The whole are is a disaster if you ask me and mainly because of the overhead costs.

In a previous estate, of 20 odd semi and terraced houses we would have paid about 600,per annum which covered minimal grass cutting, and feck all else, mostly admin, insurance and ESB for lights. External house maintenance to a point was covered but painting usually a bigger amount of money every five years. The place hadn't been taken in charge and the developer was long outta business.
Where we are now there's no management company as the council have taken the shared areas, lights etc in charge but we pay 150 or so a year into fund grass cutting, tree maintenance, flower planting etc on a much bigger scale than last estate with about 30 detached houses.
So I think a mix is a good option, council take in charge but residents manage most of the maintenance.
I know places with apartments and bigger mixed estates have much higher fees as well as bills with lifts, on site sewerage systems etc often having to be paid for by residents.

Anyway, if you are going in with your eyes open( you have been told there is a management fee/structue) don't assume it's a short term thing.

You had a crap Management company that doesn't mean that all management companies are bad. I'm paying a bit less that €600 for an apartment which hasn't changed that much in >10 years. I've my own front door and bought in a place with no gates, lifts or underground car park. The place is kept spotless, painted every few years and several other big projects done.

There's a big field in front of my apartment of which half is ours the other half is supposed to be looked after by the council. Our half is cut weekly the other part annually and they leave the long grass in the field when it's cut. Walking past the council maintained estates nearby and they are full of rotten leaves, there's no leaves in our development.

kippy

Del2005 wrote: »

You had a crap Management company that doesn't mean that all management companies are bad. I'm paying a bit less that €600 for an apartment which hasn't changed that much in >10 years. I've my own front door and bought in a place with no gates, lifts or underground car park. The place is kept spotless, painted every few years and several other big projects done.

There's a big field in front of my apartment of which half is ours the other half is supposed to be looked after by the council. Our half is cut weekly the other part annually and they leave the long grass in the field when it's cut. Walking past the council maintained estates nearby and they are full of rotten leaves, there's no leaves in our development.

How many units are in your management company?
The companies with the smaller number of Units are going to have to spread the cost of the management agent and indeed all costs over a smaller amount of units which pro-rata means a larger cost per unit.
I didn't say it was a crap management company, just that the whole concept is extremely flawed and yes, I didn't think there was that much value for money in it,when you looked at the amount of grass to cut which was really the only visible side to it. In fairness, I've heard of estates with management companies that were paying more for less. Again, it is down to the people involved but the services of a management agent are pretty much required no matter what.


You may also find an unexpected surprise if you are ever to have to sell your apartment or any property that involves a management company.
I think it may depend on the management agent involved, but essentially the potential buyers solicitor will request all of the legal documentation and accounts from your solicitor which you will need to get from the Management agent. Can vary in cost form zero to four or five hundred euro, based on anecdotal stories I have heard.

If you are in a house in an estate with houses, I don't see the reasoning for them, particularily now when you have a household tax annually, as well as the initial money the developer would have paid the councils as part of the development processes. In apartments with lots of shared internal areas and/or lifts etc perhaps there is reason for them.

Del2005

kippy wrote: »

How many units are in your management company?
The companies with the smaller number of Units are going to have to spread the cost of the management agent and indeed all costs over a smaller amount of units which pro-rata means a larger cost per unit.
I didn't say it was a crap management company, just that the whole concept is extremely flawed and yes, I didn't think there was that much value for money in it,when you looked at the amount of grass to cut which was really the only visible side to it. In fairness, I've heard of estates with management companies that were paying more for less. Again, it is down to the people involved but the services of a management agent are pretty much required no matter what.


You may also find an unexpected surprise if you are ever to have to sell your apartment or any property that involves a management company.
I think it may depend on the management agent involved, but essentially the potential buyers solicitor will request all of the legal documentation and accounts from your solicitor which you will need to get from the Management agent. Can vary in cost form zero to four or five hundred euro, based on anecdotal stories I have heard.

If you are in a house in an estate with houses, I don't see the reasoning for them, particularily now when you have a household tax annually, as well as the initial money the developer would have paid the councils as part of the development processes. In apartments with lots of shared internal areas and/or lifts etc perhaps there is reason for them.

There's a few hundred units. Didn't think about the high fixed costs for an OMC so I suppose the smaller developments would require a bigger service charge.


The majority of councils are under funded and barely maintain their areas, they never cut the grass outside of people's houses and maybe cut green areas once or twice a year. How many people in council maintained estates are paying for grass cutting? And how do they know that they are getting good value for the money they are paying to a completely unregulated organisation taking in substantial amounts in some estates? At least an OMC has to produce accounts and have an AGM, with the ability to call an EGM if necessary.


Dublin's local property tax is used to subsidise other counties. It won't be long before it goes the same way as motor tax, which was supposed to fund local councils, and be taken by general government to be replaced by another tax to fund local councils while we still pay the LPT.

jrosen

Seems like a very small number of homes to justify a management company?

Ive heard good and bad tbh. The good being they maintained really well, the bad, they did feck all and still hounded residents for money. Took years to get them out.

However the local authorities wont do any estate maintaining anymore. When the builder signs off the council will if your lucky cut the grass once a year.

I wouldn't be the biggest fan of MC because I think often you over pay however often with a residents association people dont pay up and you end up not being able to fund the estate.

Whatever you do I would really pay attention to details.

kippy

jrosen wrote: »

Seems like a very small number of homes to justify a management company?

Ive heard good and bad tbh. The good being they maintained really well, the bad, they did feck all and still hounded residents for money. Took years to get them out.

However the local authorities wont do any estate maintaining anymore. When the builder signs off the council will if your lucky cut the grass once a year.

I wouldn't be the biggest fan of MC because I think often you over pay however often with a residents association people dont pay up and you end up not being able to fund the estate.

Whatever you do I would really pay attention to details.

It's important to realise that the Management Company IS the owners (or a subgroup of the owners) essentially composed of an elected board made up of owners and usually with the services of a management agent that are the only paid people involved in the company itself.
So the THEM you are referring to is the original developer I assume or maybe its the agent?
As I said early, the effectiveness of whatever is in place, depends very much on the people running it and/or the residents themselves.

jrosen

kippy wrote: »

It's important to realise that the Management Company IS the owners (or a subgroup of the owners) essentially composed of an elected board made up of owners and usually with the services of a management agent that are the only paid people involved in the company itself.
So the THEM you are referring to is the original developer I assume or maybe its the agent?
As I said early, the effectiveness of whatever is in place, depends very much on the people running it and/or the residents themselves.

Sorry I’ve lived in 2 homes with managements companies and both were private companies. There was never a board that included residents. The residents paid for the service.

kippy

jrosen wrote: »

Sorry I’ve lived in 2 homes with managements companies and both were private companies. There was never a board that included residents. The residents paid for the service.

Doesn't sound like an OMC then.
An OMC has directors that are residents generally.
I can't fathom a situation where the property owners don't control some aspect of the management company.


Edit: apologies to the OP..gone off topic.
As you can see, it can be a messy and complex area....

Graham

jrosen wrote: »

Sorry I’ve lived in 2 homes with managements companies and both were private companies. There was never a board that included residents. The residents paid for the service.

Almost every private development has an OMC. Owners Management Company.

The OMC may appoint a managing agent to run the day-to-day operations.

The board of the OMC comprises of owners appointed by vote of the owners

Tom_Walsh

kippy wrote: »

Same difference really. Last place I was in, very small estate 18 or 20 houses, very little greenery. 600 odd per year and had been going up.
Once you have an agent involved you are probably looking at a fee of no less than 2k per annum (which is roughly what our estate were paying)
Granted apartment blocks can be significantly lower cost per unit paid to agent but generally more costs for stuff like lifts, shared fire and security equipment etc.

Yeah like it seems for housing estate with only homes it's likely going to be circa 600e PA rather than the apartment blocks which are more like 1000e+ PA.

Suppose it's just something we didn't think about 600e PA over term of the mortgage is 21,000E on top of the price for the house. And the stress of potentially being a director or the council not wanting to take charge due to major defaults by the builder in the estate. Thats what scares me. Thanks for the response.

Tom_Walsh

Caranica wrote: »

Our development is a flat budget split based on size rather than type of unit. But I know that the one after us split fees per unit type and houses are paying circa 400 euro. That includes bins.

You're better off paying 400 a year with a management company where the 400 can be legally enforced than asking houses to pay 200 voluntarily and collecting half if you're lucky. It makes for very bad blood with neighbours when someone refuses to pay residents association fees. When an agent handles it it is not personal. I'm a director of our management company and they've had to take some owners to court for fees, the agent handles it. It's not that the guy 5 doors down knows that I'm the one who signed the documents with the solicitor to seek the judgement.

Bear in mind that the developer will be liable for the costs involved to establish the company. And as I've previously mentioned, the Council is unlikely to take over landscaping and other elements so there will still be a cost for owners beyond taking in charge.

Good points too. I suppose its matter of preference. Me personally i'd rather no OMC and just the builder be liable for roads, footpaths, green areas etc until council take charge. Then have a residents associates where you pay 200e or something per annum towards making the estate look nice. Whereas others like the management company idea where fees are enforceable etc. Thanks for the post.

Tom_Walsh

ec18 wrote: »

having bought in one of pavement homes estates, you'll be left in limbo with them saying the council will take it over and maintain the common areas and the council saying they haven't. Word of advice make sure everything is ship shape before you close the deal, they are a nightmare to get back to fix anything. we closed after they said they'd fix some stuff after closing more fool us and some of out neighbours

This is very interesting. Because we couldn't not find much on Pavement homes themselves. It says building for over 40 years but the website only had one other development -Market Square in Newcastle. I spotted on another ad on daft they have build homes in Rathcoole and Kill but nothing on their site. Not even contact info. They also have some strange conditions in contracts like if the windows are scratched we cannot delay closing and they will furnish an undertaking to fix them at a later date.....but it sounds like we could be chasing them for a while if we signed contracts on their promise! How did you find the build itself? They look lovely from outside. Kitchens didn't seem to have much counter space etc? But overall build looked good? Thank you really good to hear from someone who bough from pavement homes before.

irlrobins

Tom_Walsh wrote: »

Suppose it's just something we didn't think about 600e PA over term of the mortgage is 21,000E on top of the price for the house.

You're going to have many additional costs associated with running a home over the years, many will be even higher figures, so don't get too hung up on it.

dubrov

irlrobins wrote: »

You're going to have many additional costs associated with running a home over the years, many will be even higher figures, so don't get too hung up on it.

In fairness, it should be factored in. You could potentially have the same house for sale around the corner with no management fee.

Of course you do get some value for your management fee so factoring in admin costs and lack of incentive to shop around, I'd say about 50% is dead money.

Valresnick

Wouldn’t mind a management company around our estate. We see DCC once or twice a year if we are lucky and they simple strim the crap out of everything including all the rubbish and plastics in the hedges and then shag off leaving the place in an absolute tipp.

Tom_Walsh

irlrobins wrote: »

You're going to have many additional costs associated with running a home over the years, many will be even higher figures, so don't get too hung up on it.

This point is exactly why we don't want a management company. It's an additional cost we could do without. Like you said there will be plenty of other things we need to spend the money on. I will leave the street lighting and insurance for the area along with upkeep of roads etc to the builder/council if possible.

Graham

Personally I'd prefer a development with a management company to keep things maintained.

To each their own.

dubrov

Graham wrote: »

Personally I'd prefer a development with a management company to keep things maintained.

To each their own.

I guess that's an advantage of buying into an older estate. You can see if things are maintained without a management company before you buy.
If not, it is usually a warning to stay clear.

Cyrus

i think you need to figure out if the CoCo are ever taking it in charge, id suggest they probably arent. I live in a similar sized estate and part of the planning was that there would be an OMC set up and the common areas wouldnt be taken in charge, we have our bins managed centrally (with a seperate shed with large bins rather than everyone having bins line up outside their house) some electricity, some insurances, landscaping and then the fee for the mgt co that we have appointed as well.

The biggest costs are a prof mgt co circa 3.5k per annum (you dont have to do it, but you are relying on a volunteer from the residents), audit 1.5k per annum, landscaping 4.5k and bins circa 4k that alone spread over 20 houses is 675, there are other smaller costs so ours is generally 1k per annum. And we have done a lot of extra landscaping ourselves as residents aswell.

Co Co not taking it in charge isnt any reflection on the build quality, its just not nearly as common as it was, especially on smaller infill sites.