Golf Lockdown Discussion No discussion of breaking Restrictions

mighty magpie · 08-06-2020 1:50pm

prawnsambo wrote: »

Certainly every club that uses Master Scoreboard and Golfraffix's system plus a couple more like IG would. Last I heard, HowDidIDo were working on adding the facility, but no sign of that yet. Latest version of the app on Google Play seems to be from last year.

HDID i do have a beta version that our club were asked to trial over the weekend.
Worked well with score input and results being published saturday evening. Some chancer thought it would be funny to enter a birdie birdie par birdie start, 57 points, 23 handicap. Club should cut him on badness.

prawnsambo · 08-06-2020 1:54pm

mighty magpie wrote: »

HDID i do have a beta version that our club were asked to trial over the weekend.
Worked well with score input and results being published saturday evening. Some chancer thought it would be funny to enter a birdie birdie par birdie start, 57 points, 23 handicap. Club should cut him on badness.

That's good news. Assuming it passes beta, it should be ready in time.

bustercherry · 08-06-2020 2:19pm

prawnsambo wrote: »

It's not a 'couple of comps'. It's the loss of all competition, green fee and society income since 21st March. It will now be over a quarter of a year of lost income by the time that income starts flowing in again.

It is in the context to the amendment to the phase 2 guidelines though and only in the context of a members owned club whereby they use the competion fees for operating expenses.

No one is disputing the other stuff but the hysteria about a club folding because lost income from member only closed comps is a bit of an overreaction.

thecomedian · 08-06-2020 2:32pm

It’s not so much folding but the much needed funds.
5/6 thousand is still a lot

CalamariFritti · 08-06-2020 2:36pm

No one is saying hysterically clubs will be folding. But on the other hand you cant just dismiss that preparations were made and that an additional shortfall will have to accounted for. Nobody is going nuts here saying GUI pushes clubs into bankruptcy. All people are saying is that they were let down by their governing body. And they were.

prawnsambo · 08-06-2020 2:40pm

CalamariFritti wrote: »

No one is saying hysterically clubs will be folding. But on the other hand you cant just dismiss that preparations were made and that an additional shortfall will have to accounted for. Nobody is going nuts here saying GUI pushes clubs into bankruptcy. All people are saying is that they were let down by their governing body. And they were.

It also hits the stuff at the margins. Clubs might have had plans for improvements or ground works that may now be put off until next year.

bustercherry · 08-06-2020 2:57pm

prawnsambo wrote: »

It also hits the stuff at the margins. Clubs might have had plans for improvements or ground works that may now be put off until next year.

Why would any club in their right mind plan capital expenditure projects of member competition fees? Covid or no covid, that "should" never happen otherwise the club is not being managed correctly.

prawnsambo · 08-06-2020 3:02pm

bustercherry wrote: »

Why would any club in their right mind plan capital expenditure projects of member competition fees? Covid or no covid, that "should" never happen otherwise the club is not being managed correctly.

That's not what I said. And none of the things I mentioned were capital expenditure.

GreeBo · 08-06-2020 3:02pm

Our plan was to verbally agree your score with your playing partners, print their name and if you had more than 24 points in 12 holes, take a photo and submit via email.

bustercherry · 08-06-2020 3:13pm

prawnsambo wrote: »

That's not what I said. And none of the things I mentioned were capital expenditure.

Sorry improvements would be capex.

Again I keep coming back to the point, I'm pointing out that loss of "member comp revenue" for "member owned clubs" over the next 3 weeks will hardly be the tipping point. All the rest of the points are valid in the grand scheme of things but not what was being debated.

bustercherry · 08-06-2020 3:15pm

thecomedian wrote: »

It’s not so much folding but the much needed funds.
5/6 thousand is still a lot

Hypothetically 6 "closed member comps" gone for a club (some may have more and opens/semi-opens don't count). Looking at profit generated of 1k per comp.

Say average comp fee is 5 euro and (prudently) a third of the comp fees are redistributed in prizes but I'd argue more due to classes etc... - you are looking at needing 300 entries per comp to get those figures.

Even without the Covid restrictions on the timesheets (8 minute intervals), you would be looking at comps timesheets running >10 hours to get 300 out? Someone correct the math please :pac:

That is a big member comp to run twice a week and you need a big member base to start with. Those aren't the sort of member owned clubs that would be risk.

CalamariFritti · 08-06-2020 3:55pm

I don't understand why we are now getting bogged down into penny pinching. Whether its 3k or 5k or 6k doesn't change the fact that it was a poor show by the GUI and they knew it or else they wouldnt have come out with it late on Friday evening.

My club runs a competition every day of the week bar Saturday. Ladies, long handicaps, seniors, four balls, mens & ladies, mens. It wasn't going to be an insignificant amount in any case.

08-06-2020 3:59pm

CalamariFritti wrote: »

I don't understand why we are now getting bogged down into penny pinching. Whether its 3k or 5k or 6k doesn't change the fact that it was a poor show by the GUI and they knew it or else they wouldnt have come out with it late on Friday evening.

My club runs a competition every day of the week bar Saturday. Ladies, long handicaps, seniors, four balls, mens & ladies, mens. It wasn't going to be an insignificant amount in any case.

It was a cowardly way to do it there is no doubt.

thecomedian · 08-06-2020 4:02pm

bustercherry wrote: »

Hypothetically 6 "closed member comps" gone for a club (some may have more and opens/semi-opens don't count). Looking at profit generated of 1k per comp.

Say average comp fee is 5 euro and (prudently) a third of the comp fees are redistributed in prizes but I'd argue more due to classes etc... - you are looking at needing 300 entries per comp to get those figures.

Even without the Covid restrictions on the timesheets (8 minute intervals), you would be looking at comps timesheets running >10 hours to get 300 out? Someone correct the math please :pac:

That is a big member comp to run twice a week and you need a big member base to start with. Those aren't the sort of member owned clubs that would be risk.

Tomorrow there is well over 100 out on the course. That would be the normal day for the midweek comp. take 100 of them playing a comp at 7/8 euro a go. I’d hope the same for Saturday and Sunday.
Prizes are not that much where I am about 100/150 max

The fact that they are running a fun scramble comp this weekend means that they could really do with the money.

CalamariFritti · 08-06-2020 4:03pm

Exactly wrote: »

It was a cowardly way to do it there is no doubt.

Exactly :eek:

Kingswood Rover · 08-06-2020 10:42pm

One thing i think a lot of clubs may consider keeping is the requirement for people to book a every time they want to play. it seems that people who may like a game but on their own may be availing of games more because they have now know they have someone to play with. This will also help the quieter competition days at clubs where people just turn up enter and play leaving time sheet very blank looking thus dissuading people wanting to play but unwilling to risk travelling and being left on their own.

Raisins · 09-06-2020 12:19pm

In principle the expert group have lumped golf competition into re opening competitions for all sports. Does that not mean it’s unlikely there’ll even be a resumption of golf competition on 29th June? There’s no way they’ll approve GAA, rugby, soccer competition on that date in the start of phase 3.

Whatever about this mess so far I hope the GUI are working around the clock to get comps running for phase 3. I’ve a bad feeling they’ll only approve closed competitions but opens will have to wait or something stupid like that.

CalamariFritti · 09-06-2020 12:45pm

Thats what it sounds like but when you have two 'old-school' beaurocratic entitles like Sports Ireland and GUI lock horns you'll probably never know the real reason unless you're on the inside. Could be money, could be politics, could be personal, could be what they say it is, could be anything. The only thing I'm almost certain it is not is COVID19.

gypsy79 · 09-06-2020 12:55pm

Raisins wrote: »

Whatever about this mess so far I hope the GUI are working around the clock to get comps running for phase 3. I’ve a bad feeling they’ll only approve closed competitions but opens will have to wait or something stupid like that.

I would settle for that at this stage

RGS · 09-06-2020 1:41pm

Looks like the GUI roadmap is now in conflict with the Guidelines issued by Failte Ireland today for the reopening of Hotels and Guesthouses.

They are indicating tee times must be at 15 minute intervals.(page 24 of the booklet)
https://failtecdn.azureedge.net/failteireland/Guidelines-for-Re-opening-Hotels-and-Guesthouses.pdf

Surely the operation of golf courses is a matter for the GUI and Sports Ireland not Failte Ireland.

So we could have two different regimes depending on where the course is located. Hotel run courses 15 min tee intervals. Other golf courses 10 minute intervals by 10 August.

There is a serious lack of inter departmental discussion in this country.

Golf is my Game · 09-06-2020 5:43pm

RGS wrote: »

So we could have two different regimes depending on where the course is located. Hotel run courses 15 min tee intervals. Other golf courses 10 minute intervals by 10 August.

There is a serious lack of inter departmental discussion in this country.

Possibly. But I think if theyre not talking about such things as consistency in minutes of gaps between golfers, a topic so trivial as probably not even worth the talk, then it might be a good sign. Theres more important stuff to be getting right at the moment.

GreeBo · 09-06-2020 7:00pm

RGS wrote: »

Looks like the GUI roadmap is now in conflict with the Guidelines issued by Failte Ireland today for the reopening of Hotels and Guesthouses.

They are indicating tee times must be at 15 minute intervals.(page 24 of the booklet)
https://failtecdn.azureedge.net/failteireland/Guidelines-for-Re-opening-Hotels-and-Guesthouses.pdf

Surely the operation of golf courses is a matter for the GUI and Sports Ireland not Failte Ireland.

I'd guess thats the difference between members and guests.
The contact tracing group would be a lot smaller for members of a golf club (i.e. its the same group of people always) compared to more casual, resort golfers/guests.

Again, this is all from a generic, regulatory point of view.

DuckSlice · 09-06-2020 11:06pm

How will clubs tackle the payment of comp fees? Not many people carrying cash now. No problem for bigger clubs, but there is lots of clubs that don’t have a person in the clubhouse all the time and usually the fee is 6/7/8 Euro.

Is there a system for contactless payment that can be set to a certain fee then reset after each payment?

mike12 · 10-06-2020 5:56am

etxp wrote: »

How will clubs tackle the payment of comp fees? Not many people carrying cash now. No problem for bigger clubs, but there is lots of clubs that don’t have a person in the clubhouse all the time and usually the fee is 6/7/8 Euro.

Is there a system for contactless payment that can be set to a certain fee then reset after each payment?

Most of the booking apps have a purse system that's the way we pay for comps.

You could use revelout.

CalamariFritti · 10-06-2020 6:47am

In the real world handing cash doesn’t seem to be much of an issue. See supermarkets and now shops. And cash has always been dirty anyway.

However for the sake of formulating a ‘safe’ policy one could stick the cash in an envelope with their name on it. And clubs could let that envelope sit for 24 hours.

Same with score cards.

Which will only defer the problem elsewhere I guess. Eventually people will run out of the exact amount of change and will have to go to the supermarket or bank for it. Someone’s got to handle cash.

PARlance · 10-06-2020 11:03am

CalamariFritti wrote: »

In the real world handing cash doesn’t seem to be much of an issue. See supermarkets and now shops. And cash has always been dirty anyway.

However for the sake of formulating a ‘safe’ policy one could stick the cash in an envelope with their name on it. And clubs could let that envelope sit for 24 hours.

Same with score cards.

Which will only defer the problem elsewhere I guess. Eventually people will run out of the exact amount of change and will have to go to the supermarket or bank for it. Someone’s got to handle cash.

There's no logic to a lot of things these days. You go into a supermarket, you are encouraged to tap for payment and then the cashier still hands you a paper receipt... same cashier has probably scanned hundreds, if not thousands, of items that other people have touched.

All this while scorecards have created a great conundrum for golf clubs.

It's daft when compared but these are the times we're living through and Golf is privileged in a sense, so we've to be extra sensitive.

Poker Face · 11-06-2020 11:10pm

Anyones club starting their singles matchplay and fourball matchplay before June 29th. I know of a club doing their draw at the weekend and you can play from Monday.

youcancallmeal · 12-06-2020 9:17am

Poker Face wrote: »

Anyones club starting their singles matchplay and fourball matchplay before June 29th. I know of a club doing their draw at the weekend and you can play from Monday.

I was hoping they might do that in our place but at the moment Saturday is only day you can play 18, every other day is 9 only

FixdePitchmark · 14-06-2020 6:10pm

I know it is a global pandemic - nobody has anywhere to go - who cares and all that.

But jaysus - lads have forgot how to get around a course as a 4 ball. Nightmare stuff.

Maybe the general lack of urgency or care in society is seen in courses now.

I know, I know - relax where have you got to go anyway. But for people who like and play golf - there should be a natural flow to the game.

No one cares.

Golfhead65 · 14-06-2020 6:42pm

FixdePitchmark wrote: »

I know it is a global pandemic - nobody has anywhere to go - who cares and all that.

But jaysus - lads have forgot how to get around a course as a 4 ball. Nightmare stuff.

Maybe the general lack of urgency or care in society is seen in courses now.

I know, I know - relax where have you got to go anyway. But for people who like and play golf - there should be a natural flow to the game.

No one cares.

Not too bad in our club, when we were 3 balls it was 3hr 15 ish now with 4 balls it's 3hr 50 ish..This morning my 4 ball teed off at 8:54am and finished at 12:37 so not bad

FixdePitchmark · 14-06-2020 7:21pm

Golfhead65 wrote: »

Not too bad in our club, when we were 3 balls it was 3hr 15 ish now with 4 balls it's 3hr 50 ish..This morning my 4 ball teed off at 8:54am and finished at 12:37 so not bad

In fairness - I think i just got use to the 3 balls.

Looks like pressure coming off course a little - when not the weekend. I might stay away at weekends. Because can only play twice a week anyway.

twounderpar · 20-06-2020 6:57pm

Are there any plans to reduce the 14 minute gap for fourballs back to the regular 9 minute interval.

morrga · 20-06-2020 10:26pm

Are there any plans to take the flagsticks out?

blackbox · 20-06-2020 11:09pm

morrga wrote: »

Are there any plans to take the flagsticks out?

Flagsticks don't bother me but I'd like the bunker rakes back!

HighLine · 20-06-2020 11:35pm

blackbox wrote: »

Flagsticks don't bother me but I'd like the bunker rakes back!

Get your club to implement the local rule for placing in bunkers. This ensures an even playing field with afternoon players not having to play out of footprints. And it will still be qualifying for handicap purposes.

GolfNut33 · 21-06-2020 12:17am

HighLine wrote: »

Get your club to implement the local rule for placing in bunkers. This ensures an even playing field with afternoon players not having to play out of footprints. And it will still be qualifying for handicap purposes.

Favours the higher HC players though.

Seve OB · 21-06-2020 12:58am

GolfNut33 wrote: »

Favours the higher HC players though.

it favours everyone the same

slingerz · 21-06-2020 3:30pm

FixdePitchmark wrote: »

I know it is a global pandemic - nobody has anywhere to go - who cares and all that.

But jaysus - lads have forgot how to get around a course as a 4 ball. Nightmare stuff.

Maybe the general lack of urgency or care in society is seen in courses now.

I know, I know - relax where have you got to go anyway. But for people who like and play golf - there should be a natural flow to the game.

No one cares.

At our club I think the larger intervals between groups will stay after covid. Everyone seems to be happier with the gaps and you never find yourself waiting or having balls rained down on you. Timesheet is busy but everyone still gets out

Golf is my Game · 21-06-2020 3:44pm

I think the longer gaps are a good thing as long as your club can take it. If you have too many members for that, then it will lead to lads getting bummed about not getting a slot. Golf has just slowed down, so with tighter gaps there is going to be bunching to the slowest on the course and lads giving about about being held up. Most I see bitching about it, are probably just about as slow themselves, but just not on this round. People going well, or trying some new move, or some nonsense gimmick like aimpoint or looking at putts by holding up the putter and **** will be slower. So the whinger might be moaning about being held up today because his score is a mes and he just wants to move on, but another day he would be the slow one and not give a **** about the rest backing up behind him. People immitating the pros and longer and more difficult course is the real cause of slow play. And its not going to change. Get used to it. Andthe bigger gaps makes it more pleasureable for all where in general, at least you keep moving as theirs minutes between the groups to concertina the field a little without having to wait on tees.

twounderpar · 21-06-2020 7:53pm

I don't think it will suit too many clubs to continue with the 14 minute gap instead of the 9 minute gap. It means that in every 2hrs and
6 mins you will you will get 36 players on the timesheet instead of 56. Over the course of a day from 7a.m. to 3.26p.m that would mean
80 golfers less on the sheet.

That's going to cause difficulties for lots of clubs.I presume the health experts will have the final say on this.

Golfgraffix · 21-06-2020 8:05pm

twounderpar wrote: »

Are there any plans to reduce the 14 minute gap for fourballs back to the regular 9 minute interval.

Would you believe that 4 balls at 9 minutes is slower than 4 balls at 10 minutes. I will try an dig out the numbers behind it

finglashoop · 21-06-2020 8:15pm

The biggest hold up i can see is that the people doing the holding up dont let anyone through.

I always wait for first green to be cleared before teeing off.

Golf is my Game · 21-06-2020 8:21pm

Sure would. The bigger the gaps, the faster the round.
Thats why 14 mins is so nice. If you can get a slot of course. The smaller the gap, the more people the slowest group will slow up behind them. So the average round time reduces. The bigger the gaps, the less effect the slowcoaches have, and so the quicker players get around without being held up. So average round is quicker. Take the extreme - 1 hour gaps. Everyone would get around with no one being held up, so rounds are at their quickest for everyone.

almostover · 21-06-2020 8:22pm

Golf is my Game wrote: »

I think the longer gaps are a good thing as long as your club can take it. If you have too many members for that, then it will lead to lads getting bummed about not getting a slot. Golf has just slowed down, so with tighter gaps there is going to be bunching to the slowest on the course and lads giving about about being held up. Most I see bitching about it, are probably just about as slow themselves, but just not on this round. People going well, or trying some new move, or some nonsense gimmick like aimpoint or looking at putts by holding up the putter and **** will be slower. So the whinger might be moaning about being held up today because his score is a mes and he just wants to move on, but another day he would be the slow one and not give a **** about the rest backing up behind him. People immitating the pros and longer and more difficult course is the real cause of slow play. And its not going to change. Get used to it. Andthe bigger gaps makes it more pleasureable for all where in general, at least you keep moving as theirs minutes between the groups to concertina the field a little without having to wait on tees.

I'm all for keeping up the pace of play but some lads at our club are more interested in what time they get around in rather than their scores. There's a group that somehow always end up being my Sunday morning 3 ball and they are lightning fast but are just bunting the ball around the place. No practice swings, reading of putts, lining up. Just step up and go. And then be up the *ss of the group in front. It's taking us 3hrs 5mins to play a 3 ball with 14 mins spacing and the lads are on top of us by the turn every time. Were not slow but we at least care where our shots go!

mjsc1970 · 21-06-2020 10:29pm

almostover wrote: »

I'm all for keeping up the pace of play but some lads at our club are more interested in what time they get around in rather than their scores. There's a group that somehow always end up being my Sunday morning 3 ball and they are lightning fast but are just bunting the ball around the place. No practice swings, reading of putts, lining up. Just step up and go. And then be up the *ss of the group in front. It's taking us 3hrs 5mins to play a 3 ball with 14 mins spacing and the lads are on top of us by the turn every time. Were not slow but we at least care where our shots go!

For everyone's sake, those lads should really aim to be 1st off first thing in the morning. Then everyone enjoys their game.

Golf is my Game · 21-06-2020 10:40pm

There is a strange superiority complex from fast players that I dont think they really have right to which is assuming they are the right speed and slower players are the wrong speed, and so, should slower players should get out of their way, play at a time of the day that doesnt suit them like first in the morning, that they are responsible for other lads not enjoying their game, and they should change their style of play to those of the faster player.
Theres a fair few faster lads too who if they have score going will slow themselves down too, look for balls giving themselves a very generous benefit of the doubt on the time allowed to do so, and are happy to blame being helled up on the reason for their blowing a good score - even though their well capable of blowing it all on their own.

GolfNut33 · 21-06-2020 11:53pm

Seve OB wrote: »

it favours everyone the same

I disagree. I'm seeing high lads sitting the ball up nice and high in bunkers. Then getting out easily where normally they'd really struggle unless the lie was good.

Low lads will always be better out of bunkers than high lads from whichever lie. I hate playing golf when you're allowed pick the ball up. Good scores don't count. That's just my opinion.

willabur · 22-06-2020 1:03pm

punishment for being in a bunker shouldn't mean you cannot get out of the bunker. Higher skilled player will produce a better shot more often regardless of the lie

blue note · 22-06-2020 2:48pm

finglashoop wrote: »

The biggest hold up i can see is that the people doing the holding up dont let anyone through.

I always wait for first green to be cleared before teeing off.

The thing i never understand about calling guys through speeding things up is this...

On a Sunday comp where things are moving slow, essentially everyone is moving at the pace of the group in front. If that group is playing at a 4hr 30min round, so is everyone waiting behind them.

If they call someone through, that's great for the group they call through. However, you'll always end up waiting a little when you call a group through, whatever way you do it. It'll add a few minutes to their round. And those few minutes will be added to the rounds of everyone who doesn't get called through.

This is just relating to people playing slowly, not those looking for a ball not calling people through.

And I also have a problem with some people's belief that the whole course should be playing at their speed golf pace. Slow play is unacceptable. But if the group ahead is moving along at a good pace then don't be trying to make them feel under pressure to hurry up.

GreeBo · 22-06-2020 2:56pm

blue note wrote: »

The thing i never understand about calling guys through speeding things up is this...

On a Sunday comp where things are moving slow, essentially everyone is moving at the pace of the group in front. If that group is playing at a 4hr 30min round, so is everyone waiting behind them.

If they call someone through, that's great for the group they call through. However, you'll always end up waiting a little when you call a group through, whatever way you do it. It'll add a few minutes to their round. And those few minutes will be added to the rounds of everyone who doesn't get called through.

This is just relating to people playing slowly, not those looking for a ball not calling people through.

And I also have a problem with some people's belief that the whole course should be playing at their speed golf pace. Slow play is unacceptable. But if the group ahead is moving along at a good pace then don't be trying to make them feel under pressure to hurry up.

Then you call through the next group through aswell.
Anytime there is daylight in front of you and someone behind you, you should call them through, even if that means calling through 3-4 groups.

I've played behind groups that are have lost 2 holes after 5, but will refuse to let more than 1 group through, its shameful.

Golf Lockdown Discussion ** No discussion of breaking Restrictions **

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Golf Lockdown Discussion No discussion of breaking Restrictions