Deadlift twice a week?

seefin · 23-01-2021 1:02pm #1

Had a trainer pre covid and was deadlifting heavy once a week (upto 5 reps sets) and on second day would do 2 sets of 8 reps. Been doing similar on my own since. Am intermediate, been lifting about 2 and a half years. Everything online says to only deadlift once a week. I hate to change as overall volume will decrease so logically I could lose strength? Im progressing nice and slowly with current routine so part of me is thinking to continue until i plateau?

the baby bull elephant · 23-01-2021 1:22pm

seefin wrote: »

Had a trainer pre covid and was deadlifting heavy once a week (upto 5 reps sets) and on second day would do 2 sets of 8 reps. Been doing similar on my own since. Am intermediate, been lifting about 2 and a half years. Everything online says to only deadlift once a week. I hate to change as overall volume will decrease so logically I could lose strength? Im progressing nice and slowly with current routine so part of me is thinking to continue until i plateau?

If it's working for you keep doing it. The internet likes dealing in absolutes but it's rarely that simple. There are a number of good programmes that split deadlift volume over different days and frequency is a useful tool. As long as you're recovering fine and progressing you're grand

Alf Veedersane · 23-01-2021 2:41pm

the baby bull elephant wrote: »

If it's working for you keep doing it. The internet likes dealing in absolutes but it's rarely that simple. There are a number of good programmes that split deadlift volume over different days and frequency is a useful tool. As long as you're recovering fine and progressing you're grand

As TBBE said, recovery is the main metric. The second day is a lower intensity so is going to be less taxing.

eet fuk · 23-01-2021 10:10pm

I deadlift twice per week and I haven’t exploded

Yet

Black Sheep · 24-01-2021 12:07pm

Super common to have a deadlift as main movement one day, and on another day to have a deadlift or deadlift variation as assistance lift.

It's not the movement pattern of the deadlift that could make it an issue, it's the effect on your recovery if the intensity / volume is too much.

When it's an assistance lift it's likely that it's a sub maximal weight and not crushing volume. For your deadlift progression you'd be worse off if you dropped it, actually.

So the "Only deadlift once a week" thing is true, but what the author likely means is don't try to progress heavy deadlifts more than once a week, or try to do too much deadlift volume in a second workout.

seefin · 24-01-2021 5:13pm

Black Sheep wrote: »

Super common to have a deadlift as main movement one day, and on another day to have a deadlift or deadlift variation as assistance lift.

It's not the movement pattern of the deadlift that could make it an issue, it's the effect on your recovery if the intensity / volume is too much.

When it's an assistance lift it's likely that it's a sub maximal weight and not crushing volume. For your deadlift progression you'd be worse off if you dropped it, actually.

So the "Only deadlift once a week" thing is true, but what the author likely means is don't try to progress heavy deadlifts more than once a week, or try to do too much deadlift volume in a second workout.

Thanks for that. Am doing 2 sets of 8 DLs in my second workout and 2 sets of 8 RDLs. I find the sets of 8 DLs taxing, just calculated and theyre 86% of my 1 RM( I reset halfway through, take a few breaths before completing the set) . Should i be doing lower weight for these sets? ie should they be lower effort

Black Sheep · 24-01-2021 11:12pm

seefin wrote: »

Thanks for that. Am doing 2 sets of 8 DLs in my second workout and 2 sets of 8 RDLs. I find the sets of 8 DLs taxing, just calculated and theyre 86% of my 1 RM( I reset halfway through, take a few breaths before completing the set) . Should i be doing lower weight for these sets? ie should they be lower effort

If your deadlift is still progressing on your heavy day then don’t change anything.

86% of your 1rm for 8 reps is a quite heavy though, it would imply they are really intense sets to say the least. But if your deadlift is still progressing don’t worry. It could imply your real 1rm is more than you think.

Mellor · 25-01-2021 9:40am

seefin wrote: »

I find the sets of 8 DLs taxing, just calculated and theyre 86% of my 1 RM

What % are you sets of 5?

1RM calculators put 5reps at 86/87%
And 8reps at 78-80%

seefin · 25-01-2021 11:00am

Mellor wrote: »

What % are you sets of 5?

1RM calculators put 5reps at 86/87%
And 8reps at 78-80%

That's about 89%. My bench is similar, based on my 5rm or 8rm my 1rm should be higher there too . My trainer previously reckoned it was to do with whatever muscle fibre types I had. More endurance type fibres maybe? Maybe I should be looking at effort on the lighter deadlift day and not having the intensity so high. I've read a bit about rpe. Tbh in most of my lifting sessions,pretty much every set, I'm maxing out ( stop with at most 1 extra rep in the tank).Ah maybe I'm overanalyzing, just concerned about injury if am overdoing .
Am thinking of following a program like madcow or so I dont have to think for myself. Want a ppl program ideally as allows me to workout most days, good for my sanity with lockdowns

Alf Veedersane · 25-01-2021 12:11pm

seefin wrote: »

That's about 89%. My bench is similar, based on my 5rm or 8rm my 1rm should be higher there too . My trainer previously reckoned it was to do with whatever muscle fibre types I had. More endurance type fibres maybe? Maybe I should be looking at effort on the lighter deadlift day and not having the intensity so high. I've read a bit about rpe. Tbh in most of my lifting sessions,pretty much every set, I'm maxing out ( stop with at most 1 extra rep in the tank).Ah maybe I'm overanalyzing, just concerned about injury if am overdoing .
Am thinking of following a program like madcow or so I dont have to think for myself. Want a ppl program ideally as allows me to workout most days, good for my sanity with lockdowns

I'd dial back the second day a little. If you're getting that close to failure and having a mini-break in the middle, then it's a touch too heavy.

You could look at variations that complement the deadlift but where a heavy load on that movement is not as heavy as deadlift load so it's extra volume in hip hinging but not as taxing. Things like deficit deads, RDLs, snatch-grip deadlifts, etc.

Mellor · 25-01-2021 12:15pm

It could simply be a case that the max you’re calculating off isn’t a true 1RM. That’s a good thing, means you have more in the tank.

Mad cow is a good program. What do you currently do for weight increases?

seefin · 25-01-2021 12:59pm

Mellor wrote: »

It could simply be a case that the max you’re calculating off isn’t a true 1RM. That’s a good thing, means you have more in the tank.

Mad cow is a good program. What do you currently do for weight increases?

Am female, 50kg, so so using microplates for increases. Adding 0.5kg each week to DL on both the strength day and the volume day. Slow progress but probably will stall some stage. Could I break madcow into upper/lower days? I used do full body workouts prior to covid but finding my bench is progressing alot more when doing upper/lower split. That might mean 6 days a week though so not ideal. Also i love pull-ups so would want to continue doing them. Can i tell you my current program and see what you think?
Either way,I was thinking i might dial back the weight a little on the sets of 8 DLs so theyre not as taxing(even 2kg). Its more sustainable . It goes against the grain to dial back but feck it.

seefin · 25-01-2021 1:46pm

Alf Veedersane wrote: »

I'd dial back the second day a little. If you're getting that close to failure and having a mini-break in the middle, then it's a touch too heavy.

You could look at variations that complement the deadlift but where a heavy load on that movement is not as heavy as deadlift load so it's extra volume in hip hinging but not as taxing. Things like deficit deads, RDLs, snatch-grip deadlifts, etc.

Thanks Alf. I might do 4 sets of RDLs instead of 2. Or take a few kgs off the DLs. Should i still be adding weight onto my sets of 8 each week, or maybe only add every 2 weeks? Just focus on adding to my sets of 5 or 3 ?

Alf Veedersane · 25-01-2021 1:55pm

seefin wrote: »

Thanks Alf. I might do 4 sets of RDLs instead of 2. Or take a few kgs off the DLs. Should i still be adding weight onto my sets of 8 each week, or maybe only add every 2 weeks? Just focus on adding to my sets of 5 or 3 ?

I don't think you need to do 4 sets of RDLs just because the load is lighter. You can see how it feels but I wouldn't rush into increasing the volume because the load is lighter.

You can add weight to the lighter day but you need to be honest with yourself about the overall impact on recovery that it has. It's a way of getting in extra volume without taxing the body. Bear in mind that you said they're quite taxing and you have to take a break midway through. They don't have to be that taxing to be effective.

You want your overall volume to be effective but if you try and throw too much at it, you just start working against yourself.

Cill94 · 25-01-2021 2:18pm

seefin wrote: »

Am female

This likely explains the high % for your sets of 8. Very common for females to be able to do more reps at relatively higher percentages of their 1RM.

Black Sheep · 25-01-2021 2:27pm

seefin wrote: »

Am female, 50kg, so so using microplates for increases. Adding 0.5kg each week to DL on both the strength day and the volume day. Slow progress but probably will stall some stage. Could I break madcow into upper/lower days? I used do full body workouts prior to covid but finding my bench is progressing alot more when doing upper/lower split. That might mean 6 days a week though so not ideal. Also i love pull-ups so would want to continue doing them. Can i tell you my current program and see what you think?
Either way,I was thinking i might dial back the weight a little on the sets of 8 DLs so theyre not as taxing(even 2kg). Its more sustainable . It goes against the grain to dial back but feck it.

Being female is a potential factor here.

Makes a bit of sense why you can rep out 86% of your 1rm. Your trainer may have been alluding to this.

https://startingstrength.com/article/training_female_lifters_neuromuscular_efficiency

I do think as Mellor says your true 1rm could still be higher too I.e might not be 86% in fact, but it doesn’t really matter, just keep progressing and you’re good.

seefin · 25-01-2021 7:17pm

Black Sheep wrote: »

Being female is a potential factor here.

Makes a bit of sense why you can rep out 86% of your 1rm. Your trainer may have been alluding to this.

https://startingstrength.com/article/training_female_lifters_neuromuscular_efficiency

I do think as Mellor says your true 1rm could still be higher too I.e might not be 86% in fact, but it doesn’t really matter, just keep progressing and you’re good.

Really interesting article, makes sense.
I nearly cried when I read this .
"Heavy 3s for 4-5 sets 3 days per week, with no light days may be necessary to drive a strength increase in more advanced females. Such a schedule would kill most men, and is necessary for most women" .
I feel tired already

Alf Veedersane · 25-01-2021 7:41pm

seefin wrote: »

Really interesting article, makes sense.
I nearly cried when I read this .
"Heavy 3s for 4-5 sets 3 days per week, with no light days may be necessary to drive a strength increase in more advanced females. Such a schedule would kill most men, and is necessary for most women" .
I feel tired already

You have to factor in that it was written by Rippetoe as well.

Good article here too

https://mennohenselmans.com/why-women-should-not-train-like-men/

seefin · 25-01-2021 7:55pm

Alf Veedersane wrote: »

You have to factor in that it was written by Rippetoe as well.

Good article here too

https://mennohenselmans.com/why-women-should-not-train-like-men/

Thanks Alf. Rippletoe is arguing that I need to go lower reps whereas Menno is saying I should concede and stick to what i do best ie higher reps. Menno is more of a bodybuilder but I'm more interested in strength . So as compromise, I'll stick to half and half as am already doing. Except alot of sets of 3 rather than sets of 5 on my heavy days( currently doing 2 @ 5, 1@ 4, and 2 @3).
And these articles also imply that programs that work for men may not work same for women
Feck it, I'll continue as am, just with less intensity on the lighter day. Ill wait until plateau ( or get injured) before changing up things

Black Sheep · 25-01-2021 8:41pm

seefin wrote: »

Really interesting article, makes sense.
I nearly cried when I read this .
"Heavy 3s for 4-5 sets 3 days per week, with no light days may be necessary to drive a strength increase in more advanced females. Such a schedule would kill most men, and is necessary for most women" .
I feel tired already

Ha ha, I would take that assertion with a pinch of salt as Alf says. There are probably lots of people who have trained more female lifters than Rip.

In Starting Strength “advanced” also usually refers to their idea of really experienced lifters who have exhausted other ways of making progress. It’s a small cohort.

Honestly, as you say - keep going till you plateau. Then look about.

seefin · 25-01-2021 8:47pm

Black Sheep wrote: »

Ha ha, I would take that assertion with a pinch of salt as Alf says. There are probably lots of people who have trained more female lifters than Rip.

In Starting Strength “advanced” also usually refers to their idea of really experienced lifters who have exhausted other ways of making progress. It’s a small cohort.

Honestly, as you say - keep going till you plateau. Then look about.

Phew. I didnt get Alfs reference that Rippletoe hasnt trained many women. My future isnt looking so bleak now. Cheers guys, ye've been really helpful

Alf Veedersane · 25-01-2021 9:19pm

seefin wrote: »

Thanks Alf. Rippletoe is arguing that I need to go lower reps whereas Menno is saying I should concede and stick to what i do best ie higher reps. Menno is more of a bodybuilder but I'm more interested in strength . So as compromise, I'll stick to half and half as am already doing. Except alot of sets of 3 rather than sets of 5 on my heavy days( currently doing 2 @ 5, 1@ 4, and 2 @3).
And these articles also imply that programs that work for men may not work same for women
Feck it, I'll continue as am, just with less intensity on the lighter day. Ill wait until plateau ( or get injured) before changing up things

The fact that he's a bodybuilder isn't hugely relevant since he's mostly referencing strength.

What he's saying is that because women can handle more volume than men at a given intensity, that it makes more sense to do a lot of your training at a level that means higher reps than it would be for men. It doesn't mean you never train heavy. Just train more often where you can maximise strength.

ETA: as Black Sheep said, keep going as you are. Theory is fine and it informs you but it should be used in conjunction with how you feel it's going. Just but just be mindful of how its impacting on your recovery and don't be afraid to dial back the lighter day a touch. I know you said that goes against the grain but sometimes less volume/intensity = more recovery in a way that has a net positive impact.

Alf Veedersane · 26-01-2021 9:29am

Funnily enough, this very topic was the subject of H****y's email yesterday

seefin · 26-01-2021 11:14am

Alf Veedersane wrote: »

Funnily enough, this very topic was the subject of H****y's email yesterday

Whats h*****s email? Is this a guy who used be member of boards and was barred or something? Have vague recollection of this. Intrigued now.

Alf Veedersane · 26-01-2021 11:37am

seefin wrote: »

Whats h*****s email? Is this a guy who used be member of boards and was barred or something? Have vague recollection of this. Intrigued now.

Haha, yeah (James) Hanley.

seefin · 26-01-2021 11:59am

Alf Veedersane wrote: »

Haha, yeah (James) Hanley.

Found him on Facebook and found the post from yesterday re deadlifting twice. Thanks for that

Mr. CooL ICE · 26-01-2021 12:59pm

He definitely does not lurk here at all, at all at all

In fact, I'm tempted to post something utterly cliched and ridiculous just to see if it suddenly appears in one of his ranty emails

Black Sheep · 26-01-2021 1:08pm

Like love letters to the boards.ie he is cruelly exiled from... sob...

Imagefitness · 29-01-2021 1:11pm

Hi Seefin,

Thanks for posting this query. I was wondering if everyone follows internet material, they must have reached their fitness goals. In my initial phase of fitness routine, I also used to follow numerous youtube videos. And what happened next was the worst, I start getting cramps and all. And if I skip any exercise, my muscles start loosening strength and weight gain. I am not against these online materials, as far as you are reaching your goal. But following them correctly and stay in routine is the most important thing.
I consulted a Personal Trainer for this, and he gave really interesting tips. It's good if you are staying on a routine and getting a good result. You should also discuss with your Personal Trainer about this.

seefin · 11-02-2021 1:23pm

Resurrecting this thread. Ive been looking at various programs- id say I'm an 'advanced intermediate'. Most programs seem to be at a lot lower intensity than I've been doing. Even if i assume my 1rm is actually higher than it is(i added on 10%), im consistently lifting at over 90% for most of my lifts. Most programs recommend doing eg 4sets of 4 but at say 82% ,whereas I'm doing at the 91.5% for each set. Hope this makes sense.. I've had about 4 injuries in the past year so wondering if this is the cause?

11-02-2021 2:15pm

I wouldn't like to guess what is causing your injuries specifically but it could be over training or form or form breakdown at that close to max, so still form.
I would do a light week then drop back the weight to 70% 80% and build up again gradually each week. Also see if you could find a coach to do a form check wouldn't hurt and rule that out

Black Sheep · 11-02-2021 3:04pm

seefin wrote: »

Resurrecting this thread. Ive been looking at various programs- id say I'm an 'advanced intermediate'. Most programs seem to be at a lot lower intensity than I've been doing. Even if i assume my 1rm is actually higher than it is(i added on 10%), im consistently lifting at over 90% for most of my lifts. Most programs recommend doing eg 4sets of 4 but at say 82% ,whereas I'm doing at the 91.5% for each set. Hope this makes sense.. I've had about 4 injuries in the past year so wondering if this is the cause?

Ok, it’s really nearly impossible to be definitive based on just a few posts... But if you are an intermediate female then yeah I do think you will be working at a higher percentage than a guy and it’d be normal. For reference, I did a set of 3x5 at 80% yesterday in front squat, as an assistance lift. My wife did 6x4 at 85%. I don’t think I could do that tbh, or certainly not as assistance work.

The injuries could be caused by a lot of things, but for what it’s worth I do a ton of max effort work and stuff close to failure and I do not get injured.I really tend to look more towards bad judgments or inherent technical issues. But I accept bad judgment covers a multitude including people attempting things they should not / are too cold for / do not know how to keep themselves safe doing.

I think you should look for a female coach or a male coach experienced working with female lifters... Online. I can recommend someone my wife works with if you want to PM me.

Mellor · 12-02-2021 3:46am

Hve you tested your 1RMs to the point of failing a 1RM.
I'd be looking at whether your are based of a true 1RM or not before I starting looking for anything else

Deadlift twice a week?

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