Why is there ever a debate about who was the best Irish Sports person ever? READ OP

Feisar · 29-07-2020 11:18am

Oranage2 wrote: »

It's definitely McGregor, he's taken over Keane and Harrington as our most famous sport star, he's also our richest sportsman. Northern Irish people who identify as British aren't Irish to me.

In 10 years his Twitter crap and thuggery will be forgotten and he'll be recognized as our greatest Worldwide without a doubt.

He's 10 and 2 in the UFC, most famous/richest is not necessarily congruent with best. In terms of being a prize fighter he's obviously a massive success. However when we get all misty eyed and talk about people in the running for GOAT he's a flash in the pan.

partyguinness · 29-07-2020 11:29am

Oranage2 wrote: »

It's definitely McGregor, he's taken over Keane and Harrington as our most famous sport star, he's also our richest sportsman. Northern Irish people who identify as British aren't Irish to me.

In 10 years his Twitter crap and thuggery will be forgotten and he'll be recognized as our greatest Worldwide without a doubt.

This is not a debate about who is the most famous.

partyguinness · 29-07-2020 11:42am

Okay so let's look a NON-EXHAUSTIVE list of candidates:

Football
Giles
Brady
McGrath
Keane (why not both Robbie and Roy)
Best

Athletics
Sonia O'Sullivan
Ronnie Delaney
Pat O'Callaghan
Eamonn Coughlan
John Tracey
Olive Loughnane
Derval O'Rourke
Bob Tisdall

Boxing
Katie Taylor
Wayne McCullogh
Steve Collins
McGuigan
Sam Storey

Cycling
Sean Kelly
Stephen Roche

Swimming
Michelle Smith

Snooker
Ken Doherty
Taylor
Higgins

Golf
Harrington
McIllroy
McDowell

The Tetrarch · 29-07-2020 11:59am

My choices
Football: Liam Brady
Athletics: Ray Flynn
Boxing: no opinion
Cycling: Sean Kelly
Swimming: no opinion
Snooker: Ken Doherty
Golf: Padraig Harrington

My overall choice is Sean Kelly.

Feisar · 29-07-2020 12:17pm

partyguinness wrote: »

Okay so let's look a NON-EXHAUSTIVE list of candidates:

Football
Giles
Brady
McGrath
Keane (why not both Robbie and Roy)
Best

Athletics
Sonia O'Sullivan
Ronnie Delaney
Pat O'Callaghan
Eamonn Coughlan
John Tracey
Olive Loughnane
Derval O'Rourke
Bob Tisdall

Boxing
Katie Taylor
Wayne McCullogh
Steve Collins
McGuigan
Sam Storey

Cycling
Sean Kelly
Stephen Roche

Swimming
Michelle Smith

Snooker
Ken Doherty
Taylor
Higgins

Golf
Harrington
McIllroy
McDowell

We now need a weighting system that balances:

team/individual sport
elite level participation numbers
achievements

Kilboor · 29-07-2020 12:19pm

partyguinness wrote: »

Okay so let's look a NON-EXHAUSTIVE list of candidates:

Football
Giles
Brady
McGrath
Keane (why not both Robbie and Roy)
Best

Athletics
Sonia O'Sullivan
Ronnie Delaney
Pat O'Callaghan
Eamonn Coughlan
John Tracey
Olive Loughnane
Derval O'Rourke
Bob Tisdall

Boxing
Katie Taylor
Wayne McCullogh
Steve Collins
McGuigan
Sam Storey

Cycling
Sean Kelly
Stephen Roche

Swimming
Michelle Smith

Snooker
Ken Doherty
Taylor
Higgins

Golf
Harrington
McIllroy
McDowell

I'd include Andy Lee in the Boxing too

Water John · 29-07-2020 12:20pm

Plasandrunt wrote: »

Sorry

It's Sir Anthony McCoy

The Champ.

The sport will never see his likes again.

If you're Irish you do not use the title 'Sir'

Randy Archer · 29-07-2020 12:26pm

Fr D Maugire wrote: »

I think if you narrow it to one day races, then Kelly would be Top 5 ever, Merckx, Van Looy and then a toss up between De Vlaeminck, Gilbert and Kelly.

Would Sonia be top 5 female distance runner ever?, Diababa, Defar, Cheruyiot, Tulu, Szabo have more medals at Olympic/World level, then do you include champions at 800/1500m? How would you define distance running? 800m up to Marathon or only distances Sonia competed at?

One thing I didnt realise was how late female distance running was added to the olympics, was only in the 80s that the 3k, 10k and Marathon were added. First Worlds were only in 1983 and ever 4 years for the first 3 editions. Hard to define top female distance runners before then when there was so few opportunities for them. Gives an advantage to Sonia in being ranked high as there was so little history before her era.

Sonia competed at 1,500 ,3000, 5000 to 10,000 m

Here era started around 1991

Szabo , the Romanian .lol. Wasn’t she caught with drugs ?

Bobblehats · 29-07-2020 12:30pm

That’s a long list of remarkably irish names in the main.

For now...

Dr Bob · 29-07-2020 12:30pm

jaykay74 wrote: »

George Best

Well he was a superstar , but apparently he 'looks like a woman and he wears a bra.'
I am basing this off something I heard in the schoolyard 30 odd years ago , so it may be incorrect.

Tell me how · 29-07-2020 12:32pm

partyguinness wrote: »

Okay so let's look a NON-EXHAUSTIVE list of candidates:

Football
Giles
Brady
McGrath
Keane (why not both Robbie and Roy)
Best

Athletics
Sonia O'Sullivan
Ronnie Delaney
Pat O'Callaghan
Eamonn Coughlan
John Tracey
Olive Loughnane
Derval O'Rourke
Bob Tisdall

Boxing
Katie Taylor
Wayne McCullogh
Steve Collins
McGuigan
Sam Storey

Cycling
Sean Kelly
Stephen Roche

Swimming
Michelle Smith

Snooker
Ken Doherty
Taylor
Higgins

Golf
Harrington
McIllroy
McDowell

Rugby and GAA fans are somewhat bemused.

partyguinness · 29-07-2020 12:47pm

Tell me how wrote: »

Rugby and GAA fans are somewhat bemused.

Perhaps that is because they do not understand the meaning of NON-EXHAUSTIVE.

Morrison J · 29-07-2020 2:01pm

Kilboor wrote: »

I'd include Andy Lee in the Boxing too

And Jimmy McLarnin. Quite comfortably the greatest Irish boxer of all time.

Carl Frampton will have the chance to become our first three weight world champion this year too. Should definitely make any shortlist. Easily the best of of this era.

Randy Archer · 29-07-2020 2:10pm

afro man wrote: »

Belfast is on the island of ireland.. Under British control but for me anybody born in six counties is irish whether they like it it not..

No one cares what you think. Objectively and in the eyes of the rest of the world, Belfast is British, baby

Randy Archer · 29-07-2020 2:13pm

castletownman wrote: »

I would discredit O'Driscoll and O'Connell entirely because as captains, and the apparent reverance that holds in rugby, they have a black mark over them for Ireland's constant under-performance at the World Cup.

If they were as great leaders as they are claimed to be, they would have summoned a big knock-out win out of somewhere. In fact, Roy Keane's performances in the qualifiers for the 2002 World Cup trumps anything BOD and POC did for Ireland in terms of performing on the grand stage.

Greats in their sport, but not among Ireland's best ever. In my opinion, of course.

Keane allowing his mental health and booze problems get the better of him in Saipan completely destroys all his efforts in those Wc qualifiers

While I do loath the media love in on rugby , the last World Cup that “Pauli” (sigh) played in, the Irish team was ravished with injuries by the QF , him included

Randy Archer · 29-07-2020 2:17pm

partyguinness wrote: »

Because it is McCarthy's job to manage. Look up the definition.

Let's pretend you are in the workplace and your boss has a problem with you. Does your boss:-

a. Call you into your office and have speak to you in private, or
b. Call a meeting of the entire workforce and berate you in front of your colleagues?

I am not saying Keane was right re the interview but McCarthy had a choice to make and he made a bad choice.

He called that meeting because:

a. He didnt have the balls to do it in private.

Oh and remember Keane actually offered to go to McCarthy's room and bury the hachet in private (verified by others) and McCarthy wouldnt have it. His mind was made up Keane was out and Keane went fine "Fcuk you too". Mccarthy didnt have the balls to look Keane in the eye.

b. He wanted to make an example of Keane in front of everyone

McCarthy wanted to provoke a reaction or was incredibly stupid if he didnt see it coming. I mean really, when McCarthy called that meeting in froint of the entire squad and staff what did he expect?

Keane behaved in the exact same manner in 2004 in Portugal whole United were on pre season. So Fergie was too scared to call him out in private ?

Randy Archer · 29-07-2020 2:19pm

Water John wrote: »

NI and its citizens are in reality both Irish and GB. Some sports are All Ireland also. Recognise the reality.

Irish citizenship is only optional . Unionist don’t consider themselves Irish . Why should they be imposed with Irish citizenship ? You seriously misunderstand GFA

afro man · 29-07-2020 2:24pm

Randy Archer wrote: »

No one cares what you think. Objectively and in the eyes of the rest of the world, Belfast is British, baby

Randy

you must care with that reply

check your world map / Atlas Belfast located in the little Island called Ireland

Water John · 29-07-2020 2:25pm

Some very staunch unionists had no problem wearing the green Ireland rugby jersey. It's a bit more nuanced than you're making it out to be.

Randy Archer · 29-07-2020 2:25pm

Edgware wrote: »

Christy Ring, Jimmy Doyle, Eddie Keher would wipe the eye of any of the robots of the present time. Whingers that cant do anything without getting the services of their psychologist, dietician or motivator.

That’s why I always loved John Mullane . He might come across as bit of a headbanger but he was always up for it . ‘‘Tis the Passion , Michael , the love of the game”

Randy Archer · 29-07-2020 2:30pm

Water John wrote: »

Some very staunch unionists had no problem wearing the green Ireland rugby jersey. It's a bit more nuanced than you're making it out to be.

IRFU were always a bit pro Unionist even if they were always Dublin based (soccer, it was originally Belfast based ). Sure they won’t Allow our anthem be sung when “away from home” nor our fleg

It’s not really the same . Sure lucozade still think that we are part of the “home nations”

There’s one brilliant game Ireland played , against Engerland in Croker . Flannery and Hayes crying rocks Amhrann an bhfiann , but when Ireland’s call came on they along with O’Gara, pure stone faced , credit to Best , sometimes you could see him hmm the real anthem

salmocab · 29-07-2020 2:33pm

Water John wrote: »

Some very staunch unionists had no problem wearing the green Ireland rugby jersey. It's a bit more nuanced than you're making it out to be.

I think most sports are played on an all island basis, soccer is a bit of an outlier.

EmmetSpiceland · 29-07-2020 3:11pm

Randy Archer wrote: »

IRFU were always a bit pro Unionist even if they were always Dublin based (soccer, it was originally Belfast based ). Sure they won’t Allow our anthem be sung when “away from home” nor our fleg

It’s not really the same . Sure lucozade still think that we are part of the “home nations”

There’s one brilliant game Ireland played , against Engerland in Croker . Flannery and Hayes crying rocks Amhrann an bhfiann , but when Ireland’s call came on they along with O’Gara, pure stone faced , credit to Best , sometimes you could see him hmm the real anthem

It’s long past the time the IRFU stop flying the tricolour and ditch the soccer anthem for “home” rugby fixtures.

Seeing the tricolour and an Ulster flag flying a little lower is a beyond a joke, at this “stage”. Just fly the flag of the IRFU as it includes the flags of every province.

Singing two “anthems” is just wasting time. Sing the one that represents the “whole island”, as that is who the team are representing.

JohnnyFlash · 29-07-2020 3:48pm

EmmetSpiceland wrote: »

It’s long past the time the IRFU stop flying the tricolour and ditch the soccer anthem for “home” rugby fixtures.

Seeing the tricolour and an Ulster flag flying a little lower is a beyond a joke, at this “stage”. Just fly the flag of the IRFU as it includes the flags of every province.

Singing two “anthems” is just wasting time. Sing the one that represents the “whole island”, as that is who the team are representing.

It’s a terrible anthem though. Sounds like something that was written by committee.

EmmetSpiceland · 29-07-2020 3:54pm

JohnnyFlash wrote: »

It’s a terrible anthem though. Sounds like something that was written by committee.

No arguments here, J, but it’s not for people of your generation, or mine. I’d only sing it at “away” games, to be honest.

Tell me how · 29-07-2020 4:00pm

JohnnyFlash wrote: »

It’s a terrible anthem though. Sounds like something that was written by committee.

What would you rather have in its place though*

I actually quite like Ireland's Call as it ticks a few boxes.

Short verses,
Upbeat Tempo
References all areas of country
Conveys a patriotic sense and one of togetherness
Chorus is suitable for being sung by a crowd at a sporting event.

*(An interesting but off topic conversation as if ever a UI comes about, the anthem will be changed)

Bellbottoms · 29-07-2020 4:02pm

It's easily Eoin Morgan. Football might be watched by millions. But cricket fans are in the billions. You might not like it. But it's true.

Tell me how · 29-07-2020 4:07pm

Bellbottoms wrote: »

It's easily Eoin Morgan. Football might be watched by millions. But cricket fans are in the billions. You might not like it. But it's true.

Just because something is widely play/watched, does not mean that it is either the best sport, or, that any one individual is necessarily the best sports person because they play it.

How would you compare the skill of a cricketer compared to that of a hurler on a purely basic level for example?

Feisar · 29-07-2020 4:11pm

Tell me how wrote: »

What would you rather have in its place though*

I actually quite like Ireland's Call as it ticks a few boxes.
Short verses,

Upbeat Tempo

References all areas of country

Conveys a patriotic sense and one of togetherness

Chorus is suitable for being sung by a crowd at a sporting event.

*(An interesting but off topic conversation as if ever a UI comes about, the anthem will be changed)

It's as generic as could be though. Swap out Ireland for China, four provinces with 26 provinces and tall for small.

Bogwoppit · 29-07-2020 4:12pm

Dan Donnelly, one of the greatest boxers ever to have lived.

Check out his story and tell me how you could possibly disagree.

Mysterypunter · 29-07-2020 4:14pm

Bellbottoms wrote: »

It's easily Eoin Morgan. Football might be watched by millions. But cricket fans are in the billions. You might not like it. But it's true.

Ed Joyce was better than him, just about 10 years older. Morgan is a good shout though.

Tell me how · 29-07-2020 4:23pm

Feisar wrote: »

It's as generic as could be though. Swap out Ireland for China, four provinces with 26 provinces and tall for small.

:pac::pac::pac:

ahnowbrowncow · 29-07-2020 4:57pm

Bellbottoms wrote: »

It's easily Eoin Morgan. Football might be watched by millions. But cricket fans are in the billions. You might not like it. But it's true.

It's about participation levels when talking about best sportsperson, not number of fans or viewing numbers. It's widely accepted that football has the highest particpation numbers of any sport.

Plus I highly doubt cricket viewership figures surpass football. Cricket world cup had viewing figures of 700m in comparison to the football world cup having 3.5bn

Randy Archer · 29-07-2020 5:00pm

afro man wrote: »

Randy

you must care with that reply check your world map / Atlas Belfast located in the little Island called Ireland

Politics defines the world . Belfast is British . Return to school . Better still, since you love geography, pop up there when you can. You won’t be in any doubt when you waltz are city centre

Bellbottoms · 29-07-2020 5:00pm

Tell me how wrote: »

How would you compare the skill of a cricketer compared to that of a hurler on a purely basic level for example?

I don't know. How would you?
How do you compare a hurler to a soccer player for that matter. Or a boxer?

If we are talking about the most successful it's Morgan. No question. Went from playing a minority sport in North Dublin to CPT of the British cricket team. He might not be well known in Ireland. But he is easily the most well known Irish sportsman in the world.

Followed by McGregor and then the golfers. In terms of name recognition.

Randy Archer · 29-07-2020 5:02pm

EmmetSpiceland wrote: »

It’s long past the time the IRFU stop flying the tricolour and ditch the soccer anthem for “home” rugby fixtures.

Seeing the tricolour and an Ulster flag flying a little lower is a beyond a joke, at this “stage”. Just fly the flag of the IRFU as it includes the flags of every province.

Singing two “anthems” is just wasting time. Sing the one that represents the “whole island”, as that is who the team are representing.

Just have the four province IRFU flag and leave things well alone . Go to the bar or out on the kettle when the anthems come on . Agreed

Randy Archer · 29-07-2020 5:02pm

JohnnyFlash wrote: »

It’s a terrible anthem though. Sounds like something that was written by committee.

Just play teenage kicks by the undertones or ghost town by the specials

Feisar · 29-07-2020 5:20pm

Randy Archer wrote: »

Politics defines the world . Belfast is British . Return to school . Better still, since you love geography, pop up there when you can. You won’t be in any doubt when you waltz are city centre

Belfast is Irish the same way Paris is European.

partyguinness · 29-07-2020 5:22pm

Bellbottoms wrote: »

It's easily Eoin Morgan. Football might be watched by millions. But cricket fans are in the billions. You might not like it. But it's true.

It's not a popularity contest or who is the most famous or watched by the most.

Tell me how · 29-07-2020 5:25pm

Bogwoppit wrote: »

Dan Donnelly, one of the greatest boxers ever to have lived.

Check out his story and tell me how you could possibly disagree.

Had two significant fights.

The first ended in controversy after his challenger abandoned after claiming Donnelly had, the second would have WADA investigating (see below).

If one popular story is to be believed, Donnelly, who was being badly beaten in the fifth round, was saved by the magical properties of a lump of sugar cane slipped to him by Captain Kelly's sister

RollieFingers · 29-07-2020 5:40pm

McGregor, no doubt about it.

Fr D Maugire · 29-07-2020 6:25pm

Randy Archer wrote: »

Sonia competed at 1,500 ,3000, 5000 to 10,000 m

Here era started around 1991

Szabo , the Romanian .lol. Wasn’t she caught with drugs ?

Well, from what I can find, a friend or relative was found with products, but was cleared of any wrongdoing as they were not PEDs or banned.

TBH, the whole drugs thing is hit and miss. Sonia ran at a time when EPO was the drug of choice, but there was no test for it during most of her career. That is not accussing her of doping, just highlighting how random the whole doping thing was. End of the day Lance Armstrong was never caught and if not for being a complete dick, would probably have skated as well. I just think people swallow the whole Irish athletes dont cheat line a little too easily.

So do you think Sonia would be Top 5 in the history of womens distance running?

Water John · 29-07-2020 7:37pm

Runners at the time, knew Szabo was dodgy.

Bellbottoms · 29-07-2020 10:27pm

partyguinness wrote: »

It's not a popularity contest or who is the most famous or watched by the most.

Then what is it?

What criteria do you use to determine the best Irish sportsperson ever?

Morgan is one of the top players in the world in a sport played by billions.

Tell me how · 29-07-2020 10:38pm

Bellbottoms wrote: »

Then what is it?

What criteria do you use to determine the best Irish sportsperson ever?

Morgan is one of the top players in the world in a sport played by billions.

I'd be taking consideration of the skill level or athleticism to play that sport as a fairly heavy weighting in the consideration of the best sportsperson.

I'm not saying there is no skill in Cricket, there certainly is in bowling, but, I wouldn't think it is comparable to that exhibited within soccer, GAA, rugby, Tennis, golf, etc etc.

Same goes for athleticism, I would rate the average runner, swimmer, cyclist, as significantly more athletic than the average cricketer.

Fr D Maugire · 29-07-2020 10:45pm

Bellbottoms wrote: »

Then what is it?

What criteria do you use to determine the best Irish sportsperson ever?

Morgan is one of the top players in the world in a sport played by billions.

Surely the criteria should be the greatest within their own sport, where they stand on the legends roll call.

That is why I have been saying Sean Kelly, even today he will appear on most Top 10 cyclists of all-time lists. Not for a year, a few years, or for a decade, but of ALL TIME. If you want to narrow it futher to his speciality, one day racing. He would be Top 5 ever.

How many other athletes do we have that would be considered in the Top 5-10 of all time within their sport.

I do not know where the likes of Brian O'Driscoll or Eoin Morgan stand within their sports, but Roy Keane or Padraig Harrington are definitely not in that exalted company in their sports.

Maybe Sonia is within Female Distance running, again I am not sure if she would be ranked that high.

As for McGregor, he gets a lot of publicity, but I have exactly zero interest in MMA so no idea where he stands, plus it is a relatively new sport. Ditto female boxing, a even more limited pool to choose from.

Tuco88 · 29-07-2020 11:18pm

Id give it to Denis Irwin. Class act on and off the Field.
Talyor in close second.

eagle eye · 30-07-2020 12:05am

He plays for another nation, he can hardly be considered an Irish sportsperson.

eagle eye · 30-07-2020 12:06am

Fr D Maugire wrote:

Surely the criteria should be the greatest within their own sport, where they stand on the legends roll call.

Well then Katie Taylor wins by a mile.

Mysterypunter · 30-07-2020 12:18am

eagle eye wrote: »

Well then Katie Taylor wins by a mile.

If a Taylor is the winner it should be Dennis Taylor. Beat Steve Davis in the greatest comeback ever. Waiting for snooker is not a sport, he's a norrie answers

Why is there ever a debate about who was the best Irish Sports person ever? *READ OP*

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Why is there ever a debate about who was the best Irish Sports person ever? READ OP