E scooters and space cadets

Working class heroes · 14-11-2019 10:24pm

magicbastarder wrote: »

it's quite simple. there's no enforcement on the roads, for any sort of road user. proposing new regulations is all well and good, but the first step is enforcement of the existing regs.

True. But no point in adding another problem now is there...

Working class heroes · 14-11-2019 10:30pm

monument wrote: »

Whataboutery is a supporter of one paramilitary when confronted with the wrongs they did deflecting and saying what about the other paramilitary or what about the police or army etc.

Whataboutery might also be somebody giving out about scooter users killing children and somebody else saying what about motorists.

Whataboutery is not saying that there's relatively little danger posed by people walking, cycling and on scooters, so, they don't need a competency test. You might argue the point that they are wrong, but it's not whataboutery in any real sense of the phrase.

It most certainly is whataboutery.
Someone bringing up the dangers of one form of transport is countered by the fact the that another is more dangerous. It might be true but it doesn’t make the initial point wrong. It’s deflection.
Edit: on second reading of you post I get what you are saying with regards your last point. Fair enough.
But I stand by my thoughts above.

Working class heroes · 14-11-2019 10:34pm

donvito99 wrote: »

The M50 every morning does not support your argument that if people receive some sort of education or training that they will abide by whatever is supposedly instilled in them.

Or indeed every roundabout in Ireland.

Or every yellow box. And every solid white line.

Sorry, by your logic as soon as some turns 17 they should be handed the keys of a car and told to work away. No point training them as they’ll probably crash anyway.
Sorry I don’t accept that. Like I said, its nonsense. IMO.

donvito99 · 14-11-2019 10:43pm

Working class heroes wrote: »

Sorry, by your logic as soon as some turns 17 they should be handed the keys of a car and told to work away. No point training them as they’ll probably crash anyway.
Sorry I don’t accept that. Like I said, its nonsense. IMO.

Are u reading any of these posts?

You are advocating mandatory lessons for people on scooters to rein in their behaviour. That's obviously a silly idea as it doesn't even work for motorists.

Nanny state

Working class heroes · 14-11-2019 10:49pm

donvito99 wrote: »

Are u reading any of these posts?

You are advocating mandatory lessons for people on scooters to rein in their behaviour. That's obviously a silly idea as it doesn't even work for motorists.

Nanny state

Yes I am reading them. Are you reading mine?
Of course it works for motorists. As bad as people’s behavior may or may not be now imagine what it would be like in a free for all situation.

If they continue to use the roads as they are using them now then yes, they should be subject to the relevant regulations and/or restrictions.

CramCycle · 14-11-2019 11:00pm

pablo128 wrote: »

We are not peasants who have to cycle to work. We like to travel in comfort, with the heating/aircon on, dry as a bone, and not soaked in sweat before we begin our days work.

I did it for long enough when I was younger. It's not for me anymore.

I prefer to watch the peasants in their cars as I cycle in Dublin. If cycling is cheaper than driving, your doing it wring.

On a more serious note, alot of cars on the road are a poverty trap for people who don't realise how easy life could be. I see students and people who are working low paid jobs around me driving in.

People want to waste an extra few hours a day listening to rubbish on the radio, fire away, less cyclists at the junctions when I get there. But if your time is worth so little that you have an extra hour or two to throw away daily, then I hate to say it, maybe the people passing you by in traffic on the bus or on a bike are not the peasants.

Working class heroes · 14-11-2019 11:13pm

CramCycle wrote: »

I prefer to watch the peasants in their cars as I cycle in Dublin. If cycling is cheaper than driving, your doing it wring.

On a more serious note, alot of cars on the road are a poverty trap for people who don't realise how easy life could be. I see students and people who are working low paid jobs around me driving in.

People want to waste an extra few hours a day listening to rubbish on the radio, fire away, less cyclists at the junctions when I get there. But if your time is worth so little that you have an extra hour or two to throw away daily, then I hate to say it, maybe the people passing you by in traffic on the bus or on a bike are not the peasants.

Can’t argue with that!

pablo128 · 14-11-2019 11:54pm

CramCycle wrote: »

I prefer to watch the peasants in their cars as I cycle in Dublin. If cycling is cheaper than driving, your doing it wring.

On a more serious note, alot of cars on the road are a poverty trap for people who don't realise how easy life could be. I see students and people who are working low paid jobs around me driving in.

People want to waste an extra few hours a day listening to rubbish on the radio, fire away, less cyclists at the junctions when I get there. But if your time is worth so little that you have an extra hour or two to throw away daily, then I hate to say it, maybe the people passing you by in traffic on the bus or on a bike are not the peasants.

I hope you enjoyed the cold and rain immensely this morning on your cycle to work. I had a 25 minute drive to work, to be fair my only gripe is that the car took a little longer to warm up as it was Baltic.

Meanwhile my missus would have done the same journey in 10 minutes, as she works close to me but starts later. That's after hitting the gym in the morning which is about 20kms away.

I actually have little gripe with cyclists or electric scooters other than thinking that the electric scooters can be dangerous for their users on an open road.

I make a conscious decision to run 2 cars. I am a car enthusiast, and ex mechanic. I have an interest in cars and motorcycles. Myself and my missus are middle aged now, and no amount of cajoling, encouraging or downright insults are ever going to force us out of our cars and onto bicycles.

Again, enjoy your commute tomorrow. Hopefully you don't have ice cold rain pummelling your face on your way.

CramCycle · 15-11-2019 12:29am

pablo128 wrote: »

hope you enjoyed the cold and rain immensely this morning on your cycle to work. I had a 25 minute drive to work, to be fair my only gripe is that the car took a little longer to warm up as it was Baltic.

Wasn't actually cold this morning for me. Based in Dublin so typically warmer than the rest of the country I will admit.

Meanwhile my missus would have done the same journey in 10 minutes, as she works close to me but starts later. That's after hitting the gym in the morning which is about 20kms away.

That's great for you. Not sure of the relevance but good for you both.

Iactually have little gripe with cyclists or electric scooters other than thinking that the electric scooters can be dangerous for their users on an open road.

I have no gripe with escooters at all, they are slow and ugly but that's not my problem. There are few collision scenarios thanks to their small wheels and low base where they won't be the worse off by a country mile, no matter what or who they hit.

I

make a conscious decision to run 2 cars. I am a car enthusiast, and ex mechanic. I have an interest in cars and motorcycles. Myself and my missus are middle aged now, and no amount of cajoling, encouraging or downright insults are ever going to force us out of our cars and onto bicycles.

Same here, not a mechanic, that was my dad's stick but run two cars. I honestly don't care whether people drive or cycle. Everyone is entitled to get about how they want, so long as they don't act like d1cks, who cares. Personally I think anyone driving within spitting distance of an urban centre is a bit mental but each to their own, a good friend of mine actually enjoys sitting in the car for a few hours, let them at it, I can't see the attraction, I like to be doing stuff with family and friends but she claims it's relaxing. This said, I'd have no issue with any motorist if they all could retain her zen like approach. Also sadly middle aged myself

Again, enjoy your commute tomorrow. Hopefully you don't have ice cold rain pummelling your face on your way.

My daughter's boyfriend said the same to me today, funnily enough, when your moving and appropriately dressed, it's actually fine, certainly wakes you up for the day.

I wish everyone enjoyed their commute as much as me, if they did, their would certainly be less angry people on the roads. You sound like you enjoy yours, and that's great, hope it continues to be as nice for you.

I am a selfish ass, I hope people have a nice commute but if they don't, so long as I don't suffer their ill will, I don't give a fiddler's. I luckily have the choice of car, bus or bike. The bike makes more sense for me, it might not for everyone.

LeinsterDub · 15-11-2019 12:54am

https://twitter.com/aaroadwash/

This is what one day and one users highlighting the motordom this country has decided to ignore looks like

But apparently we are meant to get mad at scooters, cyclist and pedestrians

magicbastarder · 15-11-2019 1:19am

pablo128 wrote: »

I hope you enjoyed the cold and rain immensely this morning on your cycle to work.

i cycled to work in that cold and rain and got neither cold nor wet. cyclists don't cycle naked, you know.

granted, i will allow that i was happy not to have been out cycling yesterday evening.
that said, i had an errand to run yesterday evening in the car, and i would still have preferred to have been on the bike. at one point, the car was telling me the engine had been running over 35 minutes with an average speed attained of 9km/h. i walk at about 6km/h.

pablo128 · 15-11-2019 1:30am

magicbastarder wrote: »

i cycled to work in that cold and rain and got neither cold nor wet. cyclists don't cycle naked, you know.

granted, i will allow that i was happy not to have been out cycling yesterday evening.
that said, i had an errand to run yesterday evening in the car, and i would still have preferred to have been on the bike. at one point, the car was telling me the engine had been running over 35 minutes with an average speed attained of 9km/h. i walk at about 6km/h.

It was pretty miserable yesterday alright. The only thing my car was telling me that I cared about was the inside temperature was at a steady 25 degrees.

Duckjob · 15-11-2019 10:09am

pablo128 wrote: »

It was pretty miserable yesterday alright. The only thing my car was telling me that I cared about was the inside temperature was at a steady 25 degrees.

Does it share any interesting data on the Co2 / Nox levels you're inhaling for hours on end from inside your comfy little air bubble ?

Stark · 15-11-2019 10:15am

I cycled yesterday. I had to throw on an extra base layer under my jacket. How awful.

Utter Consternation · 15-11-2019 11:00am

pablo128 wrote: »

I hope you enjoyed the cold and rain immensely this morning on your cycle to work. I had a 25 minute drive to work, to be fair my only gripe is that the car took a little longer to warm up as it was Baltic.

Meanwhile my missus would have done the same journey in 10 minutes, as she works close to me but starts later. That's after hitting the gym in the morning which is about 20kms away.

I actually have little gripe with cyclists or electric scooters other than thinking that the electric scooters can be dangerous for their users on an open road.

I make a conscious decision to run 2 cars. I am a car enthusiast, and ex mechanic. I have an interest in cars and motorcycles. Myself and my missus are middle aged now, and no amount of cajoling, encouraging or downright insults are ever going to force us out of our cars and onto bicycles.

Again, enjoy your commute tomorrow. Hopefully you don't have ice cold rain pummelling your face on your way.

Good for you, amigo. What's with the persecution complex though? Are there hordes of people hounding you to stop using your car?

pablo128 · 15-11-2019 11:45am

Duckjob wrote: »

Does it share any interesting data on the Co2 / Nox levels you're inhaling for hours on end from inside your comfy little air bubble ?

Sure look, I'll take my chances. Hopefully the pollen filter catches some of it.

Thelonious Monk · 15-11-2019 12:04pm

https://www.thejournal.ie/woman-dies-car-collision-clare-4892674-Nov2019

Look at this. Yet another tragedy of a pedestrian killed by a car. 5 comments. Every recently article in the journal about cycling has had 200+ comments freaking out about how much of a threat and danger cyclists are.
Except they're f*cking harmless really aren't they? eScooters and bikes are not the problem on our roads.
Why do people in cars literally get away with murder?

Working class heroes · 15-11-2019 2:59pm

Thelonious Monk wrote: »

https://www.thejournal.ie/woman-dies-car-collision-clare-4892674-Nov2019

Look at this. Yet another tragedy of a pedestrian killed by a car. 5 comments. Every recently article in the journal about cycling has had 200+ comments freaking out about how much of a threat and danger cyclists are.
Except they're f*cking harmless really aren't they? eScooters and bikes are not the problem on our roads.
Why do people in cars literally get away with murder?

Another “look overt there” post. Nothing wrong with your post per say but it doesn’t relate to the arguments for/against e scooters here.

Thelonious Monk · 15-11-2019 3:12pm

Working class heroes wrote: »

Another “look overt there” post. Nothing wrong with your post per say but it doesn’t relate to the arguments for/against e scooters here.

There is no argument. eScooters and bicycles are harmless. Some motorists may find them a nuisance but that's about as far as it goes. I just can't understand why a cyclist breaking red lights or not wearing high vis causes such outrage, whereas you can kill people willy nilly with a car and no one cares. Can you imagine the furore if it was in the news that a cyclist hurt someone? It's utterly bizarre.

https://www.thejournal.ie/woman-critical-collision-cyclist-3920019-Mar2018/

Look at this. 200 and odd posts, and it doesn't even say who was at fault. Why is there such outrage over this, but no one gives a f*ck when a car kills someone?

Working class heroes · 15-11-2019 3:17pm

Thelonious Monk wrote: »

There is no argument. eScooters and bicycles are harmless. Some motorists may find them a nuisance but that's about as far as it goes. I just can't understand why a cyclist breaking red lights or not wearing high vis causes such outrage, whereas you can kill people willy nilly with a car and no one cares. It's utterly bizarre.

E scooters are not harmless. A cyclist breaking a red light is not harmless. Anyone who thinks otherwise is either clueless or trolling IMO.
As for your last sentence......Christ on a bike!!

In response to your quick edit. So what. Unfortunate and all that is, this thread is about e scooters. Have a look at the title.

McGrath5 · 15-11-2019 3:19pm

Thelonious Monk wrote: »

There is no argument. eScooters and bicycles are harmless. Some motorists may find them a nuisance but that's about as far as it goes. I just can't understand why a cyclist breaking red lights or not wearing high vis causes such outrage, whereas you can kill people willy nilly with a car and no one cares. Can you imagine the furore if it was in the news that a cyclist hurt someone? It's utterly bizarre.

https://www.thejournal.ie/woman-critical-collision-cyclist-3920019-Mar2018/

Look at this. 200 and odd posts, and it doesn't even say who was at fault. Why is there such outrage over this, but no one gives a f*ck when a car kills someone?

I think it's down to the endless hours people spend in their cars, angry, frustrated and jealous of cyclists or people on escooters "skipping" the traffic while they have been sold a dream by the motor industry of going anywhere, anytime with nothing in their way.

Stark · 15-11-2019 3:56pm

Working class heroes wrote: »

Another “look overt there” post. Nothing wrong with your post per say but it doesn’t relate to the arguments for/against e scooters here.

It's about priorities. There's a reason e-scooters are low down on the agenda list. Sorry your kid got a whack but it's still small change in the grand scheme of things. Things would be a lot different if he/she got hit by something faster/heavier.

pablo128 · 15-11-2019 5:12pm

It's gas the posters on here who harp on about drivers murdering cyclists when most of them are drivers themselves.

Hypocrites.

Stark · 15-11-2019 5:33pm

How is that hypocritical?

I'm careful when I drive. Unlike some drivers I don't go crying when someone suggests that I should have to pay more attention/accept more responsibility when driving than I do when walking or cycling (or using a scooter for that matter although I don't own one) because that's just common sense imo. It's a dangerous activity which I'm well aware of and prepared to accept whatever is needed to mitigate the risk to others. Not whinge just because "they get to do it!".

pablo128 · 15-11-2019 5:48pm

Stark wrote: »

How is that hypocritical?

I'm careful when I drive. Unlike some drivers I don't go crying when someone suggests that I should have to pay more attention/accept more responsibility when driving than I do when walking or cycling (or using a scooter for that matter although I don't own one) because that's just common sense imo. It's a dangerous activity which I'm well aware of and prepared to accept whatever is needed to mitigate the risk to others. Not whinge just because "they get to do it!".

Oh okay. You are a super careful driver, but everyone else is not. Got it now.

Stark · 15-11-2019 5:56pm

Many drivers are careful. Quite a few are not. And the ones that aren't cause a disproportionate amount of damage with less risk to selves than more vulnerable users. If you're generally concerned about road safety and not just looking to get at people who annoy you, it's clear where the focus needs to be.

pablo128 · 15-11-2019 5:58pm

Stark wrote: »

Many drivers are careful. Quite a few are not. And the ones that aren't cause a disproportionate amount of damage with less risk to selves than more vulnerable users.

So why do you tar all motorists with the same brush, calling them murderers?

It's not motorists v cyclists on the road. We all use the roads together.

Stark · 15-11-2019 6:04pm

pablo128 wrote: »

So why do you tar all motorists with the same brush, calling them murderers?

It's not motorists v cyclists on the road. We all use the roads together.

Aww, not nice being tarred with the one brush is it? Don't worry, you can forget about it all soon enough and get back to trolling the cycling forum.

For the record, I'm only getting at irresponsible drivers. Since I'm sure you're not one of those, you have nothing to be upset about.

Working class heroes · 15-11-2019 8:43pm

Stark wrote: »

It's about priorities. There's a reason e-scooters are low down on the agenda list. Sorry your kid got a whack but it's still small change in the grand scheme of things. Things would be a lot different if he/she got hit by something faster/heavier.

No. This is about e scooters. Nothing else. Why are people trying to shoehorn cars and the like into this.
You might fob off a child getting a whack by one of these but I don’t.

My child wasn’t hit by “something faster/heavier he was hit by a scooter. Once again stop shoehorning.

Stark · 15-11-2019 9:11pm

https://www.outsideonline.com/2405475/e-scooters-not-bad

The stats don't seem to agree with them being dangerous.

I accidentally knocked over a small child when I was out running one evening a few years ago. Should we have a crusade against joggers as well?

Also for all your accusations of whataboutery or shoe-horning, the conclusion is the same, that anything that encourages people out of cars and onto other modes of transport is a net positive for road safety.

magicbastarder · 15-11-2019 10:29pm

pablo128 wrote: »

It's gas the posters on here who harp on about drivers murdering cyclists when most of them are drivers themselves.

Hypocrites.

According to an insurance company in the UK who did research on their motor insurance customers, customers who were also cyclists were making claims at half the rate of non-cyclists. Cyclists are better drivers than non cyclists, on average.

L1011 · 15-11-2019 10:54pm

magicbastarder wrote: »

According to an insurance company in the UK who did research on their motor insurance customers, customers who were also cyclists were making claims at half the rate of non-cyclists. Cyclists are better drivers than non cyclists, on average.

I suspect there an element of twin reasons there - they are likely also driving less. I doubt the figure was claims per million miles but instead time based

magicbastarder · 23-01-2020 12:10pm

the number of e-scooters i see on my commute now has shot up since christmas. must have been a very popular christmas present.

Thelonious Monk · 23-01-2020 1:21pm

So are the Garda seizing them or not?

Working class heroes · 23-01-2020 3:21pm

Thelonious Monk wrote: »

So are the Garda seizing them or not?

Not till after the election......

CramCycle · 23-01-2020 4:18pm

Thelonious Monk wrote: »

So are the Garda seizing them or not?

Some are, some aren't, some seem to not realise others do. I suspect it depends heavily on the Garda and secondly if the Super has directed them to do so, and lastly if they are arsed.

Salary Negotiator · 24-01-2020 2:47pm

L1011 wrote: »

I suspect there an element of twin reasons there - they are likely also driving less. I doubt the figure was claims per million miles but instead time based

That's possible, but there's also a study that shows that cyclist-drivers react quicker to changes in the road scene, be that cyclists or signs etc.

DeWitt · 30-01-2020 1:47pm

Thelonious Monk wrote: »

So are the Garda seizing them or not?

Not out my way at least. One took an interest, asked a few questions like how fast it could go and said to be careful that's it. Another was taking the mick because I still don't have a car. I'm down the midlands tho and there's maybe 2 other users in town so that may be the difference.

E scooters and space cadets

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