Dublin's 24h bus services

Xterminator · 18-11-2019 10:42am

CIARAN_BOYLE wrote: »

While a 24 hour bus service could be great I do feel that the core business (ie service during rush hour) really needs to improve before Dublin bus and nta invest in a 24 hour service.

Mind you I am biased as I am at present standing in the cold as 3 timetabled busses have failed to arrive.

the two are not exclusive. there is no reason to halt 24hr busses until busconnects plans are bedded in.

I suspect you don't work shift work, and hence see the 24hrs bus service as a nice extra you might use twice a year. But more and more people work late/early and this service will make a real difference to their quality of life.

devnull · 18-11-2019 12:18pm

Full press release from the NTA:
https://www.nationaltransport.ie/news/two-bus-routes-in-dublin-go-24-hours/

Two Dublin Bus routes will become 24-hour services on Sunday 1 December.

Both the 41 and the 15 will operate on an around-the-clock basis from that date as part of the Transport for Ireland public transport network.

The 41 runs from the city centre to the airport and on to Swords, while the 15 runs from Ballycullen Road, through the city centre, on to Clongriffin.

Up to now, these services have run from early morning to late evening Monday to Saturday, with shorter hours of operation on Sunday.

From December 1, daytime frequency on the 15 and the 41 will improve, and they will run at a 30-minute frequency throughout the night from 12 midnight to 05.00.

The fare structure will remain unchanged, which means there will be no additional charge to the customer for travelling late at night.

TFI Leap Card, Free Travel Card and cash will all continue to be accepted as payment by drivers.

NTA CEO Anne Graham said:“The manner in which Dublin functions as a city has shifted gradually but dramatically in recent years. It is no longer the case that city shuts down at 11 or 12 at night.

The patterns of work and socialising have changed. For instance, the success in attracting to the city, major employers who are headquartered many time-zones away, serving markets around the world, means that commercial and economic activity in Dublin continues around the clock.

The airport has become busier and busier, in recent years, and is itself a major employer. There is a clear demand for more transport options to the airport, not just for their passengers, but for the thousands of people whose jobs require them to be at work early in the morning or late into the night.

These two 24-hour routes are a clear indication of the commitment by NTA and Dublin Bus to providing a public transport service that reflects the changing city.”

Dublin Bus CEO Ray Coyne said: “The introduction of 24 hour services on Routes 15 and 41 is a significant opportunity to continue the growth and success of Dublin Bus and is an important step forward for our city.

Our 24-hour bus services will bring the many benefits of public transport to even more people and businesses including mobility, safety, sustainability and inclusion.

These services will help unlock the full potential of Dublin’s vibrant and growing night-time economy, while also providing early morning journeys into the city centre for our commuters, further assisting in the fight against congestion.”

cgcsb · 18-11-2019 2:32pm

Would have been great if they mentioned other routes in the press release for 24hr operations in the new year. The 39 and any of the n11 routes would be most welcome. I assume there'll be night luas and darts this December?

markpb · 18-11-2019 3:15pm

CIARAN_BOYLE wrote: »

While a 24 hour bus service could be great I do feel that the core business (ie service during rush hour) really needs to improve before Dublin bus and nta invest in a 24 hour service.

The peak time bus service is probably reaching the limits of what is possible without massive investment in infrastructure, ticketing and buses. All of those things will take a long time to deliver and we know they're in progress so there's no reason not to look at other improvements that are quicker to implement.

haulier · 18-11-2019 3:23pm

The 155 would have staff facilities in BRAY Depot during the night - as far as I'm aware Bray is open 24/7

bk · 18-11-2019 3:39pm

CIARAN_BOYLE wrote: »

While a 24 hour bus service could be great I do feel that the core business (ie service during rush hour) really needs to improve before Dublin bus and nta invest in a 24 hour service.

Mind you I am biased as I am at present standing in the cold as 3 timetabled busses have failed to arrive.

While you are absolutely correct that peak time services desperately need improving and I've no doubt that the NTA and DB know that very well, unfortunately the only real way to improve the peak time services is with the BusConnects infrastructure plan, to give more dedicated bus lanes, etc. And that sort of development takes years to implement unfortunately.

In the mean time, there isn't any reason why they can't work on other, easier, projects in parallel, which help build out a better overall bus service.

In the past few months we have seen them greatly increase frequency off peak and weekend, which was badly needed to create an all day service. We are now starting to see a proper night time service. Over the next year or two we are likely to see the 90 minute ticket, new ticketing options, work towards eliminating driver interaction, cashless buses, all buses having dual doors, new orbital routes, reorganised routes under busconnects, etc.

All these projects are needed, in addition to peak time improvements and there is no reason why all can't be advanced.

dfx- · 18-11-2019 3:56pm

Qrt wrote: »

This must be the 40? It’s always the 40.

27 is a good bet for this too. Usually bookended by the arrival of a 27C.

thomasj wrote: »

I got a mail from the NTA saying that the 39A is on the list of routes to become 24 hours in 2020.

You'll have an equal chance of getting a 39A at 3am as you do now at 9pm

thomasj · 18-11-2019 4:07pm

dfx- wrote:

You'll have an equal chance of getting a 39A at 3am as you do now at 9pm

Haha :rofl:

punisher5112 · 18-11-2019 4:09pm

haulier wrote: »

The 155 would have staff facilities in BRAY Depot during the night - as far as I'm aware Bray is open 24/7

There would be nowhere for to park the bus.

The yard would be full.

Huge risk leaving at the station at them times the bus would be destroyed.

Most 2019 SG ticket equipment fails as soon as there is a cash fare given. Has to be reset to then go again the next person.

Then when someone wants to pay for another on LEAP it crashes also....

devnull · 18-11-2019 4:59pm

Timetables now up

15
https://www.dublinbus.ie/Your-Journey1/Timetables/All-Timetables/152/

41
https://www.dublinbus.ie/Your-Journey1/Timetables/All-Timetables/4121/

41 gets a frequency boost at other times as well.

trellheim · 18-11-2019 5:27pm

41 VS 39 Arguments aside does anyone have a serious motive for the 15 vs a tallaght route or even 15 vs 39

I cant see a reason for it , is it to keep a depot happy or something vs another depot ? its nice if you want to go hiking in the dublin mountains at 0300 but I cant see it as a specific route

Joker2019 · 18-11-2019 5:49pm

haulier wrote: »

The 155 would have staff facilities in BRAY Depot during the night - as far as I'm aware Bray is open 24/7

The 155 and any N11 route could just use Donnybrook garage for breaks as they do at the moment. Likewise the 39a could use Donnybrook for breaks overnight

Joker2019 · 18-11-2019 5:54pm

As for drivers having to break in Summerhill surely the easiest solution is to open up the Earl Place canteen overnight and restrict it to code or key card access only after a certain time for drivers to take their breaks in overnight. That would solve the issue or just make the overnight duties short so they do not require break. Also is there any extra pay or incentives for drivers to do the overnight duties?

bk · 18-11-2019 6:05pm

Joker2019 wrote: »

As for drivers having to break in Summerhill surely the easiest solution is to open up the Earl Place canteen overnight and restrict it to code or key card access only after a certain time for drivers to take their breaks in overnight.

Yes, I was thinking the same myself. I suppose the complaint with it is that it is down the back of a dark alley, so perhaps a bit "dodgy".

An alternative perhaps would be for the NTA to rent a small office space above some shops on O'Connell St or near by. Wouldn't need to be large, given the number of staff at night, just a toilet and perhaps a sofa to relax on, automatic coffee machine, etc.

If Citylink can rent a ground floor office/waiting room on Aston Quay, I don't see why NTA couldn't do the same, over the shop office space is usually even cheaper.

Joker2019 · 18-11-2019 6:32pm

bk wrote: »

Yes, I was thinking the same myself. I suppose the complaint with it is that it is down the back of a dark alley, so perhaps a bit "dodgy".

An alternative perhaps would be for the NTA to rent a small office space above some shops on O'Connell St or near by. Wouldn't need to be large, given the number of staff at night, just a toilet and perhaps a sofa to relax on, automatic coffee machine, etc.

If Citylink can rent a ground floor office/waiting room on Aston Quay, I don't see why NTA couldn't do the same, over the shop office space is usually even cheaper.

There has to be some sort of staff facilities in the Head Office as well don't see why that can't be opened either. I think the whole security and safety risks about this is being overplayed as usual for this sort of thing. Most of the trouble on DB buses happens between the hours of 7 and 10 in the evening generally it seems when it comes to things like stone throwing which generally is the most common form of anti social behaviour on buses in Dublin.

Its the usual naysayers who thought the Dublin bikes would end up in the Liffey think the 24hr service will be a free for all. I can't see any problems.

haulier · 18-11-2019 6:36pm

Re BRAY Depot :

Part of the discussion referred to Drivers needing to have access to physical needs facilities at night when very few options are available - therefore mention was made of the possibility of Bray. It could be a long 2 hours DONNYBROOK/BRAY/DONNYBROOK

dashcamdanny · 18-11-2019 8:22pm

Joker2019 wrote: »

There has to be some sort of staff facilities in the Head Office as well don't see why that can't be opened either. I think the whole security and safety risks about this is being overplayed as usual for this sort of thing. Most of the trouble on DB buses happens between the hours of 7 and 10 in the evening generally it seems when it comes to things like stone throwing which generally is the most common form of anti social behaviour on buses in Dublin.

Its the usual naysayers who thought the Dublin bikes would end up in the Liffey think the 24hr service will be a free for all. I can't see any problems.

Most trouble inside the bus happens when people are drunk and up for a fight.

Which is going to be between 1200 and 300 ... And once this catches on, these buses will be full at those times. Safety of staff is not being overplayed . Staff also dont want to be wandering the streets on their break while all the ejits are out, full of drink.

As far as I know, not many have put their name down for the night shift yet. Its a bit of a **** show. TBH

dashcamdanny · 18-11-2019 8:23pm

Joker2019 wrote: »

There has to be some sort of staff facilities in the Head Office as well don't see why that can't be opened either. I think the whole security and safety risks about this is being overplayed as usual for this sort of thing. Most of the trouble on DB buses happens between the hours of 7 and 10 in the evening generally it seems when it comes to things like stone throwing which generally is the most common form of anti social behaviour on buses in Dublin.

Its the usual naysayers who thought the Dublin bikes would end up in the Liffey think the 24hr service will be a free for all. I can't see any problems.

Most trouble inside the bus happens when people are drunk and up for a fight.

Which is going to be between 1200 and 300 ... And once this catches on, these buses will be full at those times. Safety of staff is not being overplayed . Staff also dont want to be wandering the streets on their break while all the ejits are out, full of drink.

As far as I know, not many have put their name down for the night shift yet. Its a bit of a sh1t show. TBH

Qrt · 18-11-2019 8:37pm

trellheim wrote: »

41 VS 39 Arguments aside does anyone have a serious motive for the 15 vs a tallaght route or even 15 vs 39

I cant see a reason for it , is it to keep a depot happy or something vs another depot ? its nice if you want to go hiking in the dublin mountains at 0300 but I cant see it as a specific route

15 is Rathmines. There and Drumcondra are fairly busy commercial areas, moreso than Cork Street, Crumlin, etc where there’s f*ck all. Stoneybatter is too but I wouldn’t say as much as the other two, for the moment anyway.

ITV2 · 18-11-2019 8:42pm

As far as I know, not many have put their name down for the night shift yet. Its a bit of a sh1t show. TBH[/QUOTE]

I heard it was a full house on the list for the NS 15 ?

bk · 18-11-2019 9:12pm

Joker2019 wrote: »

There has to be some sort of staff facilities in the Head Office as well don't see why that can't be opened either. I think the whole security and safety risks about this is being overplayed as usual for this sort of thing.

Jeez... How did I forget that DB HQ is right there on O'Connell St! Total brain fart :rolleyes:

It should be easy for them to offer facilities there. As you say a combination of keycard and pin so staff can access part of the building to use toilets, etc. Might require a bit of renovation, changing doors, etc. But relatively cheap and easy in the greater schemes of things.

thenightman · 18-11-2019 9:50pm

Hopefully we'll get a 24 hour service out in Clondalkin by 2030, and area where taxis are prohibitively expensive from the city centre for most people not getting taxis in groups. N11 route will be next, then N4 I'd say.

cgcsb · 18-11-2019 10:54pm

markpb wrote: »

The peak time bus service is probably reaching the limits of what is possible without massive investment in infrastructure, ticketing and buses. All of those things will take a long time to deliver and we know they're in progress so there's no reason not to look at other improvements that are quicker to implement.

Well that's only half true. Making all buses use the centre doors could be done tomorrow. We could have anpr enforcement and a flat 90 minute fare by the new year and the bus connects network changes could be there by spring. But we don't want to is the simple answer. Even bringing out 24 hour routes attracts the great unwashed commentary: what abou de homeless and wha about drink etc.

zanardi · 25-11-2019 12:43am

Looks like testing is underway.

Kermit.de.frog · 25-11-2019 2:29am

No transport police coming in Dublin to police 24 hour services, or any services for that matter.

https://www.irishtimes.com/news/ireland/irish-news/garda-will-not-introduce-dedicated-unit-for-transport-services-1.4093700?mode=amp

Lord Ross is the most useless transport minister in the states history.

Personally I don't agree with introducing services when we don't have basics like proper security.

I also think drivers are at risk on these services primarily due to alcohol.

At the end of the day when we go about running our society in the manner that we do where public drunkeness is acceptable, where our city is just one giant drinking den, where we have no proper police force or a justice system worthy of the name and little sense of security then we need to accept there are things we just can't have.

I think drivers will be attacked and service cancelled within 6 months.

It does not take rocket science to see what's going to happen here.

I'd be delighted if it goes well though.

Jamie2k9 · 25-11-2019 8:15am

Oh come on there is not a major anti social behaviour issue on buses most of the issues are at certain locations. Nightlinks have operated for years with very few problems.

Its more a train/tram issue.

cgcsb · 25-11-2019 9:42am

There's no transport police at present though adding a 24hr route wont change that.

There's also no statistical basis for your assertion that there is an increase in assaults between midnight and 5. The thing about scumbags is they can be drunk at any hour.

Besides private security in this country can't really deter anything because of the legal system. If a security guard puts their hands on anyone the company gets sued and the scummer gets a windfall.

punisher5112 · 25-11-2019 10:15am

I've had more issues and been attacked in the day more so then night time....

bk · 25-11-2019 7:35pm

Kermit.de.frog wrote: »

Personally I don't agree with introducing services when we don't have basics like proper security.

I also think drivers are at risk on these services primarily due to alcohol.

.......

It does not take rocket science to see what's going to happen here.

While I've long said we should have a dedicated Transport Police Service, the above is a bit much IMO.

We have had the nightlink service operating for decades that is almost completely designed around getting drunk people home after pub/nightclub closing times and it hasn't suffered from any unusual social issues.

By comparison, this service should be better, while of course it will still carry some drunk people home, unlike the nightlink service, it will also be carrying large numbers of tourists to and from the airport and tired shift workers to and from their place of work. So it should be a much more normal service.

Also I think it is wrong to link drunk people to the assholes who assault people! The majority of people who are heading home a bit drunk after a night out are ordinary people just looking to get home after a hopefully fun evening. I'm sure we have all been there and done that in our day and I'm also sure the VAST majority of us never assaulted another person or caused any problems for a driver when heading home.

Assholes on the other hand are assholes and they are still assholes whether they have drink on them or not and time of day doesn't really make much difference either.

dashcamdanny · 25-11-2019 8:19pm

41. No passenger who, in the opinion of an authorized person, is in a state of intoxication or otherwise in an unfit or improper condition shall board or remain on the vehicle.

That basically means an empty 1am bus .

p_haugh · 25-11-2019 9:05pm

dashcamdanny wrote: »

41. No passenger who, in the opinion of an authorized person, is in a state of intoxication or otherwise in an unfit or improper condition shall board or remain on the vehicle.

That basically means an empty 1am bus .

I assume that's from the Dublin Bus bye laws.
In my experience most drivers are quite lax on that during the day, or even when students are going into town for a night out they let them on even though they're intoxicated for the most part.
Now they do stop the bus and usually kick people off if they're being rowdy, chanting, etc.
It's the same with the nitelinks.

jamo2oo9 · 25-11-2019 9:45pm

Yeah, it's basically down to the driver's discretion if they'll allow them on or not.

L1011 · 25-11-2019 10:20pm

I wonder can Kermit detail what difference does this have to the old 6 day Nitelink service (which ran during the first, original heavy cocaine use era at that) or the extant 24h private airport, Expressway and BE commuter services which have not had these issues?

bk · 26-11-2019 12:22am

dashcamdanny wrote: »

41. No passenger who, in the opinion of an authorized person, is in a state of intoxication or otherwise in an unfit or improper condition shall board or remain on the vehicle.

ROFLOL, what about the Nitelink so?!!!!

It's entire reason is to bring drunk people home! And I've seen plenty of drunk people on the 11:30 bus too.

Of course in reality the above is simply to allow a driver to reject a person who is too far gone or they feel will be dangerous or a danger to themselves. If a driver actually tried to keep most "intoxicated" people off the nitelink, I'm sure s/he would be quickly in trouble with DB management.

dashcamdanny wrote: »

That basically means an empty 1am bus .

Accept for all the tourists and staff going to and from the airport and all the folks working in bars/restuarants/cinemas/etc. going home after a hard nights work.

Just like on the 747, Aircoach and all the other late night buses running around the country.

bikeman1 · 26-11-2019 1:38pm

This supposed issue about it being a nightmare is pure rubbish.

There are people using night services across the country every night of the week. Coming home, going to work making their way to the airport and there are very little problems, especially on buses.

Every weekend between now and Christmas Dublin Bus will be running an extensive Nitelink service, to all corners of the city as they have done for years and years. In fact, many services will be completely over subscribed as taxis are hard to get in town on busy nights.

I know of people who come up to Dublin for an event, go for a few drinks and then return home on one of the overnight buses back to Cork or Galway or Belfast to avoid hotel prices in Dublin. Very few issues reported.

It really needs to be put aside as it being a MAJOR problem. It is a bit like people who said all the Dublin Bikes will be thrown in the Liffey, vandalised or destroyed.

dashcamdanny · 26-11-2019 2:01pm

bk wrote: »

ROFLOL, what about the Nitelink so?!!!!

It's entire reason is to bring drunk people home! And I've seen plenty of drunk people on the 11:30 bus too.

Of course in reality the above is simply to allow a driver to reject a person who is too far gone or they feel will be dangerous or a danger to themselves. If a driver actually tried to keep most "intoxicated" people off the nitelink, I'm sure s/he would be quickly in trouble with DB management.

Accept for all the tourists and staff going to and from the airport and all the folks working in bars/restuarants/cinemas/etc. going home after a hard nights work.

Just like on the 747, Aircoach and all the other late night buses running around the country.

Agreed. And tbh. The night links give very little trouble as most of not everyone is in a jolly mood.
I believe the drivers on the night duty have been given a spare bus to drive themselves back to the garages for lunch break and home time. So they won't have to hang around a town with the usual Dublin drunk rabble.

Jamie2k9 · 27-11-2019 12:12am

Why have timetable been designed like this?

https://www.dublinbus.ie/Your-Journey1/Timetables/All-Timetables/4121/

Qrt · 27-11-2019 12:12am

Jamie2k9 wrote: »

Why have timetable been designed like this?

https://www.dublinbus.ie/Your-Journey1/Timetables/All-Timetables/4121/

Like what exactly?

Jamie2k9 · 27-11-2019 12:13am

Qrt wrote: »

Like what exactly?

They start with 04.00 and end 03.30. It should be 00.00 and end at 23.30.

Qrt · 27-11-2019 12:23am

Jamie2k9 wrote: »

They start with 04.00 and end 03.30. It should be 00.00 and end at 23.30.

I mean, technically yeah, but I guess 4AM would be a common enough cut off point between one day and the next from a human perspective rather than a time perspective (am making a hames of this explanation I know)

L1011 · 27-11-2019 12:24am

Jamie2k9 wrote: »

They start with 04.00 and end 03.30. It should be 00.00 and end at 23.30.

Cutover time for daily tickets possibly?

AlmightyCushion · 27-11-2019 3:09am

Also, from swords to town the bus goes at 1am and 3am on Monday but every other midweek day it goes at 1.30 and 3.30 so makes sense to split the days from 4am to 3.30am.

showpony1 · 27-11-2019 11:25am

Will the daily Luas caps/weekly caps last until midnight that day or midnight Sunday in case of weekly caps?

Qrt · 27-11-2019 9:07pm

showpony1 wrote: »

Will the daily Luas caps/weekly caps last until midnight that day or midnight Sunday in case of weekly caps?

I don’t think it’s midnight. I know the caps apply to the nitelink too.

p_haugh · 28-11-2019 2:39am

Qrt wrote: »

I don’t think it’s midnight. I know the caps apply to the nitelink too.

Everywhere you look says the leap cap doesn't apply to nitelinks, but whenever I've gotten it I've only been charged €2.00 instead of €4.50 when I've reached my daily/weekly cap

Qrt · 28-11-2019 8:21am

p_haugh wrote: »

Everywhere you look says the leap cap doesn't apply to nitelinks, but whenever I've gotten it I've only been charged €2.00 instead of €4.50 when I've reached my daily/weekly cap

It’s a max contribution of 2.50 towards the cap afaik

p_haugh · 28-11-2019 12:02pm

Qrt wrote: »

It’s a max contribution of 2.50 towards the cap afaik

I figured as much, still weird they don't advertise it

L1011 · 28-11-2019 12:22pm

Its beyond not advertising it; they've basically stripped all mention of it from anywhere!

Nitelink services probably only have a few years left before they're all replaced with 24h routes anyway but it'd still make sense to tell people about this.

p_haugh · 28-11-2019 3:32pm

L1011 wrote: »

Its beyond not advertising it; they've basically stripped all mention of it from anywhere!

They specifically mention on the leapcard website that nitelinks (among other services) are excluded from daily/weekly caps.

L1011 · 28-11-2019 3:43pm

Even better then, the only mention of it is wrong.

Dublin's 24h bus services

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