Dublin's 24h bus services

trellheim

Like I said its the best served place in dublin outside the city centre - thats undeniable . Do you not see your posts as a bit airport centric there - do you not think people need to get in and out of

My point is that 39 was planned in as the first because - lets see - its the most needed . Some deal was done to swap the 39 for the 41 here . No-one is saying people on the 41 wont benefit here or that it too is not needed

Some deal was done to swap stuff round

Do you think the 39 was picked originally just to be discarded . As someone rightly said above swap the 15 for the 16 and then do the 39 bang both problems solved as the 16 corridor can deal with a lot of the southside 15 corridor and do the airport as well

L1011

Depots and numbers of staff available probably had something to do with the route selection? They're still training in new recruits at a decent pace

bikeman1

trellheim I think you are being very unfair suggesting that the 41 corridor is the best served in Dublin already. That is simply not true. I live on the corridor and I think Devnull's post above hits the nail on the head.

If you live in Santry, Whitehall, Upper Dromcondra or Swords it is not easy to get to the airport at the crucial times. That is in time for the 05:45 - 07:00 wave of flights (the 05:00 bus is not early enough and doesn't run on Sunday's) for either residents or airport workers. I find it funny that living close to the airport, I have no PT to get there, yet people from Donegal, Galway, Belfast, Cork or Dalkey can all easily make these flights. Similarly at the other end of the day staff / crew / residents cannot get home off the late arrivals. Then after getting to the top of the queue for a taxi, the drivers often moan at doing such a "short run"!

We have an airport with 31m pax this year, a road that goes from the number 1 city in the country via the biggest people hub in the country to the 10th largest town in the country and you are arguing that it doesn't deserve a 24 hour service??

ArmaniJeanss

bk wrote: »

Yep, that was what I was suggesting once BusConnects happens, an A-N route that combines the A2 (16) and A4 (41) almost exactly like the above.

For all the core routes, I think it will make more sense to have dedicated night routes on each corridor that combines the most sensible parts of the daytime routes. A-N, B-N, C-N, etc.

Doing what you suggest can lead to something like the 39N nitelink, which is borderline unusable for those at the end of the route as it first goes into every nook and cranny of 3 or 4 of the N3 routes.

I'm a huge believer that these routes should be a continuation of the day-time service, that we completely normalise it that it's just a case that the 41 or 15 or 46a is now a 24-hour route. That the people who use these routes have consistency on what their service is. Starting from different parts of town or going alternate directions just because it's past midnight isn't a good idea imo.

thomasj

In fairness the 39/a route needs to be a 24 hours route but in the meantime it's fair to say the route is struggling atm and while we're waiting for 24 hours maybe the existing service can be sorted

- capacity issues on the route after 7pm right up to 10 sometimes 11

- morning peak issues: they're using harristown "euros" to maintain a 10 minute frequency between 8am-9am and at least twice this week there were a no-show resulting in a 20+ minute gap.

- complaints of 30 minutes waits down to traffic issues in the evening peak

- and the occasional no-show due to "operational difficulties"

On the 41 issue, it's fair to say there should be a 24 hour service to the airport but for people in other parts of Dublin , how to they get to the City to get the bus to the Airport ?

Just pointing out between 5am-6am there's only 1 41 service and no 41c services. The 39a however are running every 10 minutes. That's just a beside the point !

thomasj

Like I said before , come December you'll see full VTs on the 39Ns/70Ns as you see every year , for Dublin bus commerical service that's a goldmine. But it will probably the last year you see that .

Jamie2k9

The 41 was an always the first candidate and NTA/DB made reference to this when Noel Rock threw his toys out of the pram that Cork got a 24/7 service first.

Was there any public reference to 39 as a first route?

I could think of a few reasons why 41 jumped the queue (If the 39 starting is true) but would prefer to try clarify if my suspicions are correct first.

thomasj

Last year Ray Coyne revealed to the Oireachtas transport committee that the plan was to launch 24 hour services on the Blanchardstown, Airport and N11 corridors.

AlekSmart

Jamie2k9 wrote: »

The 41 was an always the first candidate and NTA/DB made reference to this when Noel Rock threw his toys out of the pram that Cork got a 24/7 service first.

Was there any public reference to 39 as a first route?

I could think of a few reasons why 41 jumped the queue (If the 39 starting is true) but would prefer to try clarify if my suspicions are correct first.

During the early planning phase,it appeared that the NTA's preffered option was a selection of "Corridor" night-routes,with the 39A and 145 to merge,offering a single Bray-Blanchardstown route and the 41/25 doing similar on a North-West alignment.

It now appears that the NTA have had a rethink on the routing issue,and are focusing on simply making existing routes 24 hour.

howiya

IE 222 wrote: »

I was referring to the 15. But a 16 skipping Beaumont and doing the Swords part of the 41 would of been ideal, 2 routes covered in 1. During the early hours it wouldn't add much more than 15 mins onto the route.

Public transport is bad enough in Beaumont without taking routes out of it

IE 222

howiya wrote: »

Public transport is bad enough in Beaumont without taking routes out of it

Can't loose what you don't already have.

howiya

IE 222 wrote: »

Can't loose what you don't already have.

What's the point of a night version of the 16 that skips Beaumont? As you've already alluded to traffic would be light during the early hours. Plenty of airport/airline staff in the area

IE 222

howiya wrote: »

What's the point of a night version of the 16 that skips Beaumont? As you've already alluded to traffic would be light during the early hours. Plenty of airport/airline staff in the area

It's not a drastic detour. The bus stops are still within walking distance.

thomasj

AlekSmart wrote:

It now appears that the NTA have had a rethink on the routing issue,and are focusing on simply making existing routes 24 hour.

Was there not an issue with drivers and toilet breaks after hours?

Because I would've thought in this scenario Dublin Airport would have been a more suitable terminus for this scenario than Swords Manor?

Has this issue been resolved?

AlekSmart

thomasj wrote: »

Was there not an issue with drivers and toilet breaks after hours?

Because I would've thought in this scenario Dublin Airport would have been a more suitable terminus for this scenario than Swords Manor?

Has this issue been resolved?

The "issue" of toilet provision is not specific to Night services,but was raised as part of the broader scenario,including the ongoing campaign to attract more female applicants to Busdriving.

It is far from being resolved,and looms over the entire Busconnects project.

Even London,with it's Bus & Tube Station infrastructure has had to get real in relation to the very basic provisions of such facilities.

TfL have just completed a £6,000,000 project to install 42 "Comfort Units" which now leaves London Busdrivers with almost 100% availability across it's Bus network.

https://www.standard.co.uk/news/transport/sadiq-khan-to-spend-6m-on-toilets-for-london-bus-drivers-a3765906.html

https://www.london.gov.uk/questions/2014/1208

It is to be assumed that our NTA,which readily admits to it's fondness for "The London Model" will do it's utmost to follow TfL's lead in this regard.

thomasj

AlekSmart wrote:

The "issue" of toilet provision is not specific to Night services,but was raised as part of the broader scenario,including the ongoing campaign to attract more female applicants to Busdriving.

That's a fair point but in the short-term, at least in the daytime, drivers could use the toilet facilities of local businesses. Drivers won't have that option for the most part at 3am in the morning.

AlekSmart

thomasj wrote: »

That's a fair point but in the short-term, at least in the daytime, drivers could use the toilet facilities of local businesses. Drivers won't have that option for the most part at 3am in the morning.

Oddly enough it's not quite as clear as that.

The number of businesses with Publicly available Toilet Facilities are limited anyway.
Businesses prepared to allow unfettered access to Busdrivers or any other group will be even less.

Questions regarding Employers/Occupiers liability now exist,after some businesses raised the issue of indemnity insurance,all of which we may dismiss...until something happens,whereafter we ask why it hadn't been foreseen...:rolleyes:

With the availabilty of Summerhill Garage as the City Centre base for duties,the issue is temporarily "solved",but with the NTA seeking a 10 route network of routes,it remains to be seen if any real thought has been given to the minutae ?

punisher5112

thomasj wrote: »

That's a fair point but in the short-term, at least in the daytime, drivers could use the toilet facilities of local businesses. Drivers won't have that option for the most part at 3am in the morning.

Hard when there is nowhere at either end.

It's a basic right and the council's have a lot to answer for shutting down all the public toilets we had.

Terrible how we are expected to hold on for up to 7 hours at times.
Some shifts are that long as a workout and time to get there as in town.

howiya

IE 222 wrote: »

It's not a drastic detour. The bus stops are still within walking distance.

You didn't answer the question. What are you gaining by not serving Beaumont? What's the logic behind it?

trellheim

the only thing I can think of is avoiding the detour into the hospital around whitehall .

trellheim

We have an airport with 31m pax this year, a road that goes from the number 1 city in the country via the biggest people hub in the country to the 10th largest town in the country and you are arguing that it doesn't deserve a 24 hour service??

What I actually said was the Airport is the best served place in the country for PT outside the City centre

The 39 Blanch corridor as pointed out above was to be first , NOT the 41 ; it has been changed. I am not denying the need, just that when it was all looked at back then, the 39 and NOT the airport was first.


As I said, swap the 15 to the 16 , and change the 41 to the 39 and you've fixed it - Airport gets served with the 16 and the 39 does Blanch

IE 222

howiya wrote: »

You didn't answer the question. What are you gaining by not serving Beaumont? What's the logic behind it?

Keeping routes direct instead of weaving around residential roads at 3am for the sake of 1 or 2 people an hour. As I said its merging 2 routes into one. Basically 16 Southside route & 41 Northside route. I haven't seen or heard anyone including yourself question why the 41 can't be detoured around Beaumont which would suggest to me is that there is very little demand or requirement to do so.

Before long you'll have people and politicians either demanding 24hr routes outside their house or complaining about noisy buses passing up their road in the early hours or attracting people to gather around outside their house at 3am waiting for a bus.

howiya

IE 222 wrote: »

Keeping routes direct instead of weaving around residential roads at 3am for the sake of 1 or 2 people an hour. As I said its merging 2 routes into one. Basically 16 Southside route & 41 Northside route. I haven't seen or heard anyone including yourself question why the 41 can't be detoured around Beaumont which would suggest to me is that there is very little demand or requirement to do so.

Before long you'll have people and politicians either demanding 24hr routes outside their house or complaining about noisy buses passing up their road in the early hours or attracting people to gather around outside their house at 3am waiting for a bus.

I don't want the 41 to divert around Beaumont. We already have a bus route that goes to the airport. The problem with is that it's unusable for people who need to be in the airport in advance of the first wave of flights. A 24hr 16 would solve that and serve the southside. I only need it once or twice a month but there are plenty airport/airline staff in the area.

Bizarrely when I lived on the southside I was a 10 minute walk from an early morning airport service. Maybe I should try and move back there.

bk

thomasj wrote: »

On the 41 issue, it's fair to say there should be a 24 hour service to the airport but for people in other parts of Dublin , how to they get to the City to get the bus to the Airport ?

The suggestion seems to be that there will end up being a network of roughly 10 our so night routes on the main corridors into the city. I'd assume that they will all meet up somewhere like Westmorland Street, where people can transfer from other routes onto a 41N, with hopefully the new 90 minute ticket.

A proper night time network.

ArmaniJeanss wrote: »

I'm a huge believer that these routes should be a continuation of the day-time service, that we completely normalise it that it's just a case that the 41 or 15 or 46a is now a 24-hour route.

It simply doesn't make sense. Dublin has over 120 routes, but there isn't going to be 120 24/7 routes, there will just be 10 or so on the core routes into the city.

That means that many people would end up with no night time route if they just stuck to the normal daytime routes. Traffic congestion is WAY lighter at night time, so adjusting routes to take in as many people as is reasonable makes complete sense for night time routes.

I'd suspect even if the 24/7 routes are longer and take on more areas, they will still be far much faster then at rush hour via a more direct routing.

IE 222

howiya wrote: »

I don't want the 41 to divert around Beaumont. We already have a bus route that goes to the airport. The problem with is that it's unusable for people who need to be in the airport in advance of the first wave of flights. A 24hr 16 would solve that and serve the southside. I only need it once or twice a month but there are plenty airport/airline staff in the area.

Bizarrely when I lived on the southside I was a 10 minute walk from an early morning airport service. Maybe I should try and move back there.

A 16 bus stop will still only be a 10 min walk from a 41 bus stop.

Jamie2k9

They are not expected to walk, plenty of shops with rest areas for short brakes in town.

thenightman

Jamie2k9 wrote: »

They are not expected to walk, plenty of shops with rest areas for short brakes in town.

At 3am? near Eden Quay? Only places are the 24H McDonald's/Burger King etc which are full of drunks at that hour. Not much of a relaxing break going to be had in there.

Jamie2k9

thenightman wrote: »

At 3am? near Eden Quay? Only places are the 24H McDonald's/Burger King etc which are full of drunks at that hour. Not much of a relaxing break going to be had in there.

I can think of 4-5 24/7 shops with seating within 5-10min walks. I still don't see the appeal of going back to a depot either on foot or a bus in general because it just eats into your time.

How long is the break?

punisher5112

Is there public toilets, eh no there ain't.....

This is an absolute sh1t show.....

Only thing is if bus connects is done right then maybe, not holding my breath but maybe they will actually plan and put in facilities for drivers day or night....

Another thing that's shocking is the city had numerous public toilets and all were shut or knocked down or filled in.

Crazy that in a bustling city such as Dublin and it has no facilities at all for the public or drivers and so on.

AlekSmart

cgcsb wrote: »

Why is other people being drunk a problem? Surely some people on your bus will be drunk? Nothing wrong with summerhill either. And there are several 24 hr establishments around no different from 9 at night really.

Drunkness may not be a problem in Dublin and reports of it in or around the City Centre may well be overdone.

However,current Bus design incorporates a security screen for a reason,and it is'nt down to some designer thinking it would look nice.It is an integral part of the Busdrivers Personal Protection Equipment (PPE).

Sadly,as many Uniform wearers will attest,the cloth you wear can,and does attract attention,sometimes in the worst possible manner,add in a few Pints/Lines and you could quite reasonably infer that the potential risk has increased substantially,but now without the protection of a screen.

With Public Transport undertakings now mounting large scale campaigns to attract more applications from Females,it is difficult to see how a total absence of Toilet Facilities added to an early morning Dublin Saunter through the "North Inner City" will do much to ensure these campaigns success.

AngryLips

So did the 24-hour service start already?

Qrt

Can someone fix the grammar in the thread title? Genuinely feel the blood pressure going higher when I see it.

bk

Qrt wrote: »

Can someone fix the grammar in the thread title? Genuinely feel the blood pressure going higher when I see it.

Done

punisher5112

AngryLips wrote: »

So did the 24-hour service start already?

No it's not but shortly.....

15 on 30th November

jamo2oo9

Is the 24hr bus service definitely going ahead? I don't see any official statement from NTA or Dublin Bus about it. DB normally announce schedule changes 4/5 weeks in advance and so far, nothing.

devnull

jamo2oo9 wrote: »

Is the 24hr bus service definitely going ahead? I don't see any official statement from NTA or Dublin Bus about it. DB normally announce schedule changes 4/5 weeks in advance and so far, nothing.

Nothing has been officially confirmed yet, but the plan was to go live on 1st December, subject to everything falling into place and everyone involved being ready in time to commence services.

Peregrine

NTA sent out a press release: https://www.irishexaminer.com/breakingnews/ireland/dublins-first-24-hour-bus-routes-announced-964759.html

bg07

Are any other routes likely to follow soon or are further expansion subject to an extended trial of the first routes?

Presume a N11 route is the next priority?

thomasj

I got a mail from the NTA saying that the 39A is on the list of routes to become 24 hours in 2020.

punisher5112

Donnybrook are voting on the new 15 bill this week.

They are rushing this in as so close to Christmas staff won't strike and the bill is absolutely terrible.

I believe there are breaks in the city at around 1am, 2am and 3am.

The duties finish back in the garage.

4 B rota duties will be gone and start times will be earlier.

Walk around check on a Sunday starts around 7 am this will now be around 4 or 4.30am instead.

The duties were expected to be work outs by most of us but it ain't so and it actually is just another increase in work load.

We are now driving much longer routes then ever, more traffic then ever, more aggressive passengers and other road users, new dangerous pass laws for cyclists but yet they put themselves at risk passing on bends, turns, pulling into bus stops, driver seats are an absolutely shocking design with most causing severe leg and back pain, longer duties then ever before and much longer spread out so your whole day/night is gone.

So much more but the work life balance was an issue that was brought up at the last strike but it fell on deaf ears and yet the company took more perks and conditions which have been under constant threat for years.

Lean management was one term side tracked in and this is causing most issues.

Drivers are more and more stressed then ever before and the job has very very little job satisfaction among other issues.

Things have changed so much for the worse.

Peregrine

bg07 wrote: »

Are any other routes likely to follow soon or are further expansion subject to an extended trial of the first routes?

Presume a N11 route is the next priority?

I believe the plan is to go 24hrs on all the spines.

39A, 4 etc. probably next in line.

stephenjmcd

Peregrine wrote: »

I believe the plan is to go 24hrs on all the spines.

39A, 4 etc. probably next in line.

Wouldnt think the 4 would go 24hrs.
Your more likely to see the 39a and one of 145 or 155

Qrt

stephenjmcd wrote: »

Wouldnt think the 4 would go 24hrs.
Your more likely to see the 39a and one of 145 or 155

I can see the 27 on the southside going 24 hour too but not for a while.

thomasj

Qrt wrote:

I can see the 27 on the southside going 24 hour too but not for a while.

Im not so sure ?

Don't get me wrong Tallaght will get a 24 hour route, but 15 already covers most of the Northside leg of the 27 and sure wasn't it said here the plan was for a 24 hour route per branch?

Peregrine

stephenjmcd wrote: »

Wouldnt think the 4 would go 24hrs.
Your more likely to see the 39a and one of 145 or 155

Sorry, yes, 155 might be more likely. I was only thinking of the 4 corridor.

p_haugh

stephenjmcd wrote: »

Wouldnt think the 4 would go 24hrs.
Your more likely to see the 39a and one of 145 or 155

The 155 would be more likely as it covers the 4 north of the Liffey and the 145 south of it. Also there would be no need to serve Heston at that hour as no trains run during the night.
The 7 could be done to cover the southern routing of the 4 since it terminates on town anyways.

cgcsb

They'll probably want to keep the 24hr routes as close to the future spines as possible. If only the spines minus the g and h spines plus the O route operate 24hr that's a pretty solid night time network. Taxi ranks will probably spring up at suburban hubs rather than cause traffic jams on dame st at 4 am

Qrt

thomasj wrote: »

Im not so sure ?

Don't get me wrong Tallaght will get a 24 hour route, but 15 already covers most of the Northside leg of the 27 and sure wasn't it said here the plan was for a 24 hour route per branch?

I did say “on the southside”

CIARAN_BOYLE

While a 24 hour bus service could be great I do feel that the core business (ie service during rush hour) really needs to improve before Dublin bus and nta invest in a 24 hour service.

Mind you I am biased as I am at present standing in the cold as 3 timetabled busses have failed to arrive.

Qrt

CIARAN_BOYLE wrote: »

While a 24 hour bus service could be great I do feel that the core business (ie service during rush hour) really needs to improve before Dublin bus and nta invest in a 24 hour service.

Mind you I am biased as I am at present standing in the cold as 3 timetabled busses have failed to arrive.

This must be the 40? It’s always the 40.