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US Presidential Election 2020

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    #3092
    Foxtrol
    Registered Users Posts: 11,010 ✭✭✭✭Foxtrol


    marno21 wrote: »
    Mike Bloomberg has given the Democrats, Biden especially, a taste of what they need to do to level up the playing field here. There is no point in playing nice this time, you will lose.

    There is plenty off fodder there for them, all the brain misfirings if he mentions Biden's mental state, the clips of him talking about Ivanka if he rolls out creepy Joe etc

    The same tactic should be used on Senate races in Colorado, Maine, North Carolina, Arizona, Georgia, Iowa and Montana (now that it looks like Bullock is running).

    Then again, the shambles that the administration is making of the coronavirus outbreak, and the crashing stock market may do a lot of the work for the Democrats.

    Bloomberg will be just keep doing that himself. He's keeping a lot of his team together and just putting money into taking Trump out


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    #3093
    Rjd2
    Registered Users Posts: 12,006 ✭✭✭✭Rjd2


    eire4 wrote: »
    There is absolutely no question Biden if he becomes president will be fully down with continuing the corporate Democrats policies economically which come from the Milton Frideman disaster capitalism playbook and which has seen the rich continue to gobble up more and more of the pie in the US and income inequality continue to get worse.

    Indeed.

    Biden will be a better president than Trump because how could anyone not be,,,,but the same issues that allowed Trump to become president will for the most part not be tacked.

    The likes of Yang, Gabbard, Warren and Bernie were some of the few who seemed more interested in trying to tackle the inequality that led to Trump winning.

    However many of the corporate Dems had no interest, instead screamed Putin@~!~!! and focused more on the obnoxiousness of the man rather than what led to plenty of Obama voters who were so disillusioned they voted for Trump.


    AOC when she argued for Bernie made the point that a moderate Dem is not the long term answer because what comes after 4 years of "same as usual" for the Dems won't be pleasant to say the least.


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    #3094
    The Nal
    Registered Users Posts: 12,454 ✭✭✭✭The Nal


    Rjd2 wrote: »
    Indeed.

    Biden will be a better president than Trump because how could anyone not be,,,,

    Trump is a better president that his Republican predecessor.


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    #3095
    briany
    Registered Users Posts: 13,543 ✭✭✭✭briany


    Rjd2 wrote: »

    AOC when she argued for Bernie made the point that a moderate Dem is not the long term answer because what comes after 4 years of "same as usual" for the Dems won't be pleasant to say the least.

    I think she is correct in saying this, but I also think America's political system is so opposed that a more left of centre candidate like Bernie wouldn't be much better in terms of what comes after. Bernie would be able to get very little done because he wouldn't only be opposed by the Republicans, but also by a majority of his own party, who don't even really accept him as one of their own. He'd have to resort to executive orders and be called a socialist dictator by every right-wing outlet in the states. The pushback on this would be mighty.

    In reality, the office of president isn't even what Americans should be focusing on. If progressives want real change, then they have to be voting in such candidates right from the bottom up and maintain their cause over a sustained period of time, not just for the POTUS election season.


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    #3096
    Quin_Dub
    Moderators, Politics Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators Posts: 15,000 Mod ✭✭✭✭Quin_Dub


    The Nal wrote: »
    Trump is a better president that his Republican predecessor.

    By what measure??

    Not saying that GWB was great by any stretch of the imagination , but in what specific ways is Trump "Better"??

    I'd argue that they were both bad, albeit in different ways , but I'd have Trump comfortably ahead on points in the "Which was worse" competition.


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    #3097
    Quin_Dub
    Moderators, Politics Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators Posts: 15,000 Mod ✭✭✭✭Quin_Dub


    briany wrote: »
    I think she is correct in saying this, but I also think America's political system is so opposed that a more left of centre candidate like Bernie wouldn't be much better in terms of what comes after. Bernie would be able to get very little done because he wouldn't only be opposed by the Republicans, but also by a majority of his own party, who don't even really accept him as one of their own. He'd have to resort to executive orders and be called a socialist dictator by every right-wing outlet in the states. The pushback on this would be mighty.

    In reality, the office of president isn't even what Americans should be focusing on. If progressives want real change, then they have to be voting in such candidates right from the bottom up and maintain their cause over a sustained period of time, not just for the POTUS election season.

    Absolutely - It's all about the Senate and the Judiciary. The GOP recognised that a long time ago.

    If Biden or Sanders were to win in November it's all largely for nought if McConnell still leads the Senate.

    Equally though , if the Democrats take the Senate , then it really doesn't matter a whole lot if Trump get re-elected.


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    #3098
    Igotadose
    Registered Users Posts: 12,963 ✭✭✭✭Igotadose


    Quin_Dub wrote: »
    Equally though , if the Democrats take the Senate , then it really doesn't matter a whole lot if Trump get re-elected.

    It matters a whole lot. The gutting of regulations and wild-style executive orders will continue, as well as the decay of US foreign relations if Trump's in the WH. Little or no policy will be enacted by Congress as Trump will become veto happy. Plus like the Supreme Court gets down to 7 members should the expected 2 retire in the next few years and the Senate refuses to send nominees.


    Now, if there were Democratic majority in the House and 2/3 in the Senate, that's potentially very entertaining, impeach Trump twice.


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    #3099
    Rjd2
    Registered Users Posts: 12,006 ✭✭✭✭Rjd2


    Quin_Dub wrote: »
    By what measure??

    Not saying that GWB was great by any stretch of the imagination , but in what specific ways is Trump "Better"??

    I'd argue that they were both bad, albeit in different ways , but I'd have Trump comfortably ahead on points in the "Which was worse" competition.

    Neither will be remembered fondly, but Trump for all his flaws wasn't responsible for the Iraq war arguably the biggest policy error of the last 50 years especially when you look at the huge numbers who died and how it still affects America to this day.


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    #3100
    The Nal
    Registered Users Posts: 12,454 ✭✭✭✭The Nal


    Quin_Dub wrote: »
    By what measure??

    By the measure that Trump didn't start an ill-advised unnecessary war largely based on a personal vendetta that destabilised the entire middle east leading to the deaths of millions of people and presided over economic appointments, interest rate hikes and military spending that plunged the planet into the worst recession in 90 years.

    The historical revision of Bush from relentless war monger into some folksie naive good ol' Texan just to make Trump appear worse is baffling to me.


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    #3101
    Brian?
    Moderators, Recreation & Hobbies Moderators Posts: 20,775 Mod ✭✭✭✭Brian?


    Rjd2 wrote: »
    Neither will be remembered fondly, but Trump for all his flaws wasn't responsible for the Iraq war arguably the biggest policy error of the last 50 years especially when you look at the huge numbers who died and how it still affects America to this day.

    The Trump tax cut will prove worse than the Bush one in the long run.

    Trump is an ignorant bully. Dubya was almost a decent human being.

    they/them/theirs


    And so on, and so on …. - Slavoj Žižek




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    #3102
    Quin_Dub
    Moderators, Politics Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators Posts: 15,000 Mod ✭✭✭✭Quin_Dub


    The Nal wrote: »
    By the measure that Trump didn't start an ill-advised unnecessary war largely based on a personal vendetta that destabilised the entire middle east leading to the deaths of millions of people and presided over economic appointments, interest rate hikes and military spending that plunged the planet into the worst recession in 90 years.

    The historical revision of Bush from relentless war monger into some folksie naive good ol' Texan just to make Trump appear worse is baffling to me.

    I'm certainly not one for letting Bush off the hook.

    He started a war to gain revenge for his father , or at least he allowed himself to be led into War by his fathers cronies that he had brought with him into Government.

    For that he should never be forgiven.

    In terms of his economic policies , he was fairly standard issue GOP and Trump is doing much the same and maybe worse , it just hasn't hit quite yet.

    I mean look at Trump , cutting taxes and interest rates in a growing economy leaving himself absolutely nowhere to go when things go bad and they will, possibly sooner than expected with the hit the economy is going to take over the summer from the Corona virus.

    Trying to stack rank Trump and Bush in some kind of hierarchy of Presidential effectiveness is like deciding which turd would be less disgusting to make a cake with.


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    #3103
    eire4
    Registered Users Posts: 6,627 ✭✭✭eire4


    Rjd2 wrote: »
    Indeed.

    Biden will be a better president than Trump because how could anyone not be,,,,but the same issues that allowed Trump to become president will for the most part not be tacked.

    The likes of Yang, Gabbard, Warren and Bernie were some of the few who seemed more interested in trying to tackle the inequality that led to Trump winning.

    However many of the corporate Dems had no interest, instead screamed Putin@~!~!! and focused more on the obnoxiousness of the man rather than what led to plenty of Obama voters who were so disillusioned they voted for Trump.


    AOC when she argued for Bernie made the point that a moderate Dem is not the long term answer because what comes after 4 years of "same as usual" for the Dems won't be pleasant to say the least.

    Your spot on there. 4 more years of yet another corporate Democrat in power is not what the US needs at all. It will likely only lead to another far right Republican administration in reaction just as 8 years of Obama's corporate Democratic administration did. As ell as at state levels during Obama's tenure the Democrats got absolutely destroyed.


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    #3104
    Foxtrol
    Registered Users Posts: 11,010 ✭✭✭✭Foxtrol


    eire4 wrote: »
    Your spot on there. 4 more years of yet another corporate Democrat in power is not what the US needs at all. It will likely only lead to another far right Republican administration in reaction just as 8 years of Obama's corporate Democratic administration did. As ell as at state levels during Obama's tenure the Democrats got absolutely destroyed.

    This makes absolutely no sense.

    Calling Obama a corporate democrat is laughable, straight out of the Bernie playbook of calling names at everyone who would dare compromise to get things done.

    What possible rationale do you have for blaming 'far right' republicans on Obama? I dont think the way to avoid a repeat is to pander to those that resented a black president, it is pathetic to even suggest it.

    Democrats got destroyed at the state level because a mix of Obama's more progressive policies and the simple fact that democrats switch off too easily between presidential cycles, alongside many of the same folks that sat out in 2016 sulking that their favourite didn't get the nomination. Republicans generally get in line and vote for the person on the ticket. Hopefully Trump will be a warning to future generations but I doubt it, we saw how quickly the Gore loss was forgotten.


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    #3105
    Rjd2
    Registered Users Posts: 12,006 ✭✭✭✭Rjd2


    O'Neill wrote: »
    I have to ask where on earth did this 'bernie bros' come from? Every video I've seen of him giving speeches, it was very mixed gender! Also, the people that's associated with his campaign (Nina Turner, AOC, Rashida Talib, Ilan Omar) aren't exactly white men, unless I completely misunderstood the term.

    Their was a study that was done recently which has emerged the Bernie Bro smear is a myth which is what others and me have said here previously.

    The corporate Dems however know its bollocks but its been a useful weapon to smear the one serious progressive in the race.

    https://www.salon.com/2020/03/09/there-is-hard-data-that-shows-bernie-bros-are-a-myth/


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    #3106
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    Trump will pummel Biden. Dems will still force a corporate shill on the people in 2024 and lose.


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    #3107
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    Foxtrol wrote: »
    This makes absolutely no sense.

    Calling Obama a corporate democrat is laughable, straight out of the Bernie playbook of calling names at everyone who would dare compromise to get things done.

    What possible rationale do you have for blaming 'far right' republicans on Obama? I dont think the way to avoid a repeat is to pander to those that resented a black president, it is pathetic to even suggest it.

    Democrats got destroyed at the state level because a mix of Obama's more progressive policies and the simple fact that democrats switch off too easily between presidential cycles, alongside many of the same folks that sat out in 2016 sulking that their favourite didn't get the nomination. Republicans generally get in line and vote for the person on the ticket. Hopefully Trump will be a warning to future generations but I doubt it, we saw how quickly the Gore loss was forgotten.

    Obama bailed out Wall Street and massacred an incalculable number of people with his drone strikes.

    The literal definition of a corporate Democrat.

    Obama is, has, and always will be a glorified Republican.


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    #3108
    briany
    Registered Users Posts: 13,543 ✭✭✭✭briany


    How sporting of the Democrats. They're putting up Joe Biden; a senile old man with no message whatsoever in order to give Trump a fighting chance.


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    #3109
    eagle eye
    Registered Users Posts: 37,512 ✭✭✭✭eagle eye


    Deleted User wrote:
    Obama is, has, and always will be a glorified Republican.
    I don't think he was a great President but this is a ridiculous statement. He will go down in history as a great man, he did lots of great things before he was POTUS and I believe he'll do lots more in the years ahead.
    You clearly haven't a clue based off of that statement.


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    #3110
    eagle eye
    Registered Users Posts: 37,512 ✭✭✭✭eagle eye


    Deleted User wrote:
    Trump will pummel Biden. Dems will still force a corporate shill on the people in 2024 and lose.
    They have a bunch of great candidates, some of which I mentioned recently on this thread. If they put up somebody in the 40-55 age bracket they'll win in 2024.


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    #3111
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    eagle eye wrote: »
    I don't think he was a great President but this is a ridiculous statement. He will go down in history as a great man, he did lots of great things before he was POTUS and I believe he'll do lots more in the years ahead.
    You clearly haven't a clue based off of that statement.

    No he won't.

    You're living in fantasy land. I'm living in reality. You're pretending that Obama was reasonable.

    Obama murdered an incalculable number of people.


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    #3112
    duploelabs
    Registered Users Posts: 11,135 ✭✭✭✭duploelabs


    [Deleted User] wrote: »
    No he won't.

    You're living in fantasy land. I'm living in reality. You're pretending that Obama was reasonable.

    Obama murdered an incalculable number of people.
    Show me an American president who didn't.
    At least he didn't take steps to actively hide civilian deaths from drone strikes. Which president was that?? Don't tell me dont tell me I'll guess soon enough


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    #3113
    everlast75
    Registered Users Posts: 18,981 ✭✭✭✭everlast75


    [Deleted User] wrote: »
    Obama murdered an incalculable number of people.

    Trump literally removed the necessity to log drone deaths, but tell me more about Obama's "incalculable" numbers...


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    #3114
    Brian?
    Moderators, Recreation & Hobbies Moderators Posts: 20,775 Mod ✭✭✭✭Brian?


    [Deleted User] wrote: »
    Obama bailed out Wall Street and massacred an incalculable number of people with his drone strikes.

    The literal definition of a corporate Democrat.

    Obama is, has, and always will be a glorified Republican.

    The reason the Dems lost so many state level elections and the house was because the GOP managed to paint Obama as a Kenyian Lenin. It's laughable to call him a "glorified Republican". He was a pretty straight forward Democrat, slightly more socially liberal than Bill Clinton.

    they/them/theirs


    And so on, and so on …. - Slavoj Žižek




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    #3115
    Brian?
    Moderators, Recreation & Hobbies Moderators Posts: 20,775 Mod ✭✭✭✭Brian?


    [Deleted User] wrote: »
    No he won't.

    You're living in fantasy land. I'm living in reality. You're pretending that Obama was reasonable.

    Obama murdered an incalculable number of people.

    You keep saying "incalculable", but i don't think it means what you think it means. The Obama administration definitely killed a lot of people, but they also tried to keep doing. The Trump admin just stopped counting.

    they/them/theirs


    And so on, and so on …. - Slavoj Žižek




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    #3116
    is_that_so
    Registered Users Posts: 32,136 ✭✭✭✭is_that_so


    Deleted User wrote: »
    Trump will pummel Biden. Dems will still force a corporate shill on the people in 2024 and lose.
    Not if "de virus" doesn't show up his utter ineptitude and that's very likely at present. The stockmarket has deserted him already, also "not his fault". It's McMillan come back to haunt us all!


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    #3117
    The Nal
    Registered Users Posts: 12,454 ✭✭✭✭The Nal


    duploelabs wrote: »
    Show me an American president who didn't.

    Oh well thats ok then. A good man.

    Like all the murderers in Mountjoy are good people except the people who didn't admit to murder.

    A lot of Irish people have a weird "Democrats all good, Republicans all bad" black and white view which is very odd.


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    #3118
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    Brian? wrote: »
    The reason the Dems lost so many state level elections and the house was because the GOP managed to paint Obama as a Kenyian Lenin. It's laughable to call him a "glorified Republican". He was a pretty straight forward Democrat, slightly more socially liberal than Bill Clinton.

    Obama is a literal glorified Republican.

    If you go by the polls he's actually right wing.


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    #3119
    The Nal
    Registered Users Posts: 12,454 ✭✭✭✭The Nal


    Quin_Dub wrote: »
    I'm certainly not one for letting Bush off the hook.

    He started a war to gain revenge for his father , or at least he allowed himself to be led into War by his fathers cronies that he had brought with him into Government.

    For that he should never be forgiven.

    In terms of his economic policies , he was fairly standard issue GOP and Trump is doing much the same and maybe worse , it just hasn't hit quite yet.

    I mean look at Trump , cutting taxes and interest rates in a growing economy leaving himself absolutely nowhere to go when things go bad and they will, possibly sooner than expected with the hit the economy is going to take over the summer from the Corona virus.

    Trying to stack rank Trump and Bush in some kind of hierarchy of Presidential effectiveness is like deciding which turd would be less disgusting to make a cake with.

    No its not. Trump is far better. Remember Bushs reaction to Katrina? I could go on. Endless examples. W is the worst president ever. Apart from James Buchanan maybe.

    Propping up Bush to dump on Trump is bizarre behaviour.


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    #3120
    Brian?
    Moderators, Recreation & Hobbies Moderators Posts: 20,775 Mod ✭✭✭✭Brian?


    Deleted User wrote: »
    Obama is a literal glorified Republican.

    If you go by the polls he's actually right wing.

    He's right wing, just like almost every other Democrat.

    they/them/theirs


    And so on, and so on …. - Slavoj Žižek




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    #3121
    Quin_Dub
    Moderators, Politics Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators Posts: 15,000 Mod ✭✭✭✭Quin_Dub


    The Nal wrote: »
    No its not. Trump is far better. Remember Bushs reaction to Katrina? I could go on. Endless examples. W is the worst president ever. Apart from James Buchanan maybe.

    And tell me , how is Trumps response to the current challenge any better??
    The Nal wrote: »
    Propping up Bush to dump on Trump is bizarre behaviour.

    I'm not propping up Bush in any way , he was roundly awful , but I'm not seeing anything to suggest that Trump is better (even slightly) than he was.


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