Advertisement
If you have a new account but are having problems posting or verifying your account, please email us on hello@boards.ie for help. Thanks :)
Hello all! Please ensure that you are posting a new thread or question in the appropriate forum. The Feedback forum is overwhelmed with questions that are having to be moved elsewhere. If you need help to verify your account contact hello@boards.ie
Hi all,
Vanilla are planning an update to the site on April 24th (next Wednesday). It is a major PHP8 update which is expected to boost performance across the site. The site will be down from 7pm and it is expected to take about an hour to complete. We appreciate your patience during the update.
Thanks all.

Luas Finglas

Options
12357…23

Comments

  • Options
    #122
    Pete_Cavan
    Registered Users Posts: 6,704 ✭✭✭Pete_Cavan


    Idbatterim wrote: »
    luas ten km is one thing, its the twenty something km distance that is the issue. Anyway, if they can be upgraded to metro later on, and this is planned for, from the get go, its not a bad way to get the ball rolling...

    Twenty something km is not a issue for buses, particularly when there is motorway half the way and there should be (post BusConnects) good quality bus lanes the remainder. In fact, that is the kind of thing buses are perfect for. I doubt this route will be suitable for upgrading to Metro, there won't be the required segregation. It is a route suited to Luas in terms of length and area served, as long as they don't lump a chunk of north county Dublin and the south west corner of Meath onto it to.


  • Options
    #123
    Idbatterim
    Registered Users Posts: 17,840 ✭✭✭✭Idbatterim


    Pete_Cavan wrote: »
    Twenty something km is not a issue for buses, particularly when there is motorway half the way and there should be (post BusConnects) good quality bus lanes the remainder. In fact, that is the kind of thing buses are perfect for. I doubt this route will be suitable for upgrading to Metro, there won't be the required segregation. It is a route suited to Luas in terms of length and area served, as long as they don't lump a chunk of north county Dublin and the south west corner of Meath onto it to.

    how close the airport is to the city, or its in the city, is a pain in the ass. How many acres is that stopping from being developed for housing?


  • Options
    #124
    marno21
    Moderators, Entertainment Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 14,344 Mod ✭✭✭✭marno21


    Idbatterim wrote: »
    how close the airport is to the city, or its in the city, is a pain in the ass. How many acres is that stopping from being developed for housing?

    This would be a valid point if there were land shortages in the city. Or the suburbs. Neither of which is the case

    Building the airport further out requires extra transporting too. The airport in its current location is quite convenient for both the city and the motorway network.


  • Options
    #125
    bk
    Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators, Technology & Internet Moderators Posts: 22,463 Mod ✭✭✭✭bk


    SeanW wrote: »
    Fifth and finally, your concern about P&R users "eating up pt capacity which urban regeneration will rely on" can be addressed by making sure that the capacity of thing is sufficient to serve all its users, now and for the foreseeable future.

    That is easier said then done! A tram simply has a maximum capacity. It is more then a bus line, but less then a Metro.

    You can’t just wave a magic wand and add capacity beyond its physical limitations. The two Luas lines are already some of the highest capacity tram lines in the world. Most European cities would have long ago converted such overcrowded lines to Metro.

    The point is, if you are planning new Luas lines, you certainly have to be realistic and plan for the maximum capacity of the system. No point in spending tens of millions extra in inducing demand that the new system can’t then handle. Better to spend that money on systems that can handle that demand. Metrolink, Dart Expansion, Dart Underground, etc.


  • Options
    #126
    SeanW
    Registered Users Posts: 8,744 ✭✭✭SeanW


    Pete_Cavan wrote: »
    Your rant about buses need to be reassessed in terms of BusConnects which will bring in big changes. If BusConnects are Luas Finglas we're in place, there would be less cars and buses on the road which would really improve bus journey times from Ashbourne.
    BusConnects will help, but remember that Dublin was first laid out in the 10th century and even in newer cities that are well laid out (like New York with its grid patterns) there is only so much that you can get out of surface transport. Dublin is at or near the limits of that. In addition to have Trinity College, a solid mile+ squared of no streets, right in the city centre and in everyone's way as they try to get from North to South or from places like Merrion Square towards the West. Bad as this was, it was fine before the Luas Cross City, now it's a shambles. The gov. tried to get more out of the city streets and it backfired.
    Taking the road bridge over the M50 for Luas is going to be met with significant opposition, much like closing Dunville Ave. Getting to the other side of the M50 would certainly be the source of significant cost and/or delay.
    There is plenty of road space on St. Margarets' Road up to the R122 junction that could easily accommodate tram lanes. Once you turn at the R104/R122 roundabout, you cross the M50 and are into open countryside. It would be simple enough to add tram tracks and powerline to the two lane bridge and share the road between the trams and the insignificant levels of traffic on it. If need be, the bridge could be widened to have traffic lanes and tram lanes, the latter of which buses would be allowed to use as well, presumably.

    There's no reason, except being penny-wise and pound-foolish, to have a P&R in Charlestown and not just beyond the M50. Zero. And you're not going to get much more transport service in Dublin via surface streets, BusConnects or no BusConnects. Ask anyone who has the misfortune of commuting into the central area by any mode. The city is FAR beyond that.
    We really need to stop looking at Luas as the solution to all our problems. Luas is great but it has limitations and shouldn't be serving areas 10km away. Talk about making sure that the capacity is sufficient to serve all its users, now and for the foreseeable future means recognising this reality.
    On what basis have you reached the conclusion that a line with a proper P&R at the end could not possibly serve all its users?
    If Luas Finglas opened in the morning, it would attract significant numbers of users. It is probably a decade from opening and the population is growing. Lots of apartments at Charlestown SC and Dublin Industrial Estate should be the next Cherrywood (ironically the current Green Line which was to serve Cherrywood is approaching breaking point before any apartments are finished there).
    Yes, the Green Line Luas needs to be upgraded to Metro. Not exactly news to anyone here ...


  • Advertisement
  • Options
    #127
    cgcsb
    Registered Users Posts: 9,275 ✭✭✭cgcsb


    I don't mind the extension to Finglas because it's a relatively close suburb. Serving Bray with on street trams is mental though.

    We need more central tram capacity. A new line from Ringsend to st James is essential, a new line from UCD to Fairview crossing the east of the city centre and another cross city line from brownstone to Harold's X. This would add lots of capacity, endless suburban extensions just put central sections under pressure. We only have 2 lines in the centre one north-south and the other east-west. We need to be doubling the central capacity before the suburban lines go ahead


  • Options
    #128
    Muahahaha
    Registered Users Posts: 19,610 ✭✭✭✭Muahahaha


    I can see the arguments for the Bray extension. But with the Green line already jammers and the building of 25,000 units at Cherrywood it would be like throwing petrol on a fire.

    Agree that new central lines should take priority though. That said the Finglas extension at only 4km and which opens up the Dublin Industrial Estate to lots of new housing would be an easy win. Just gotta go a bit further for a proper Park and Ride north of the m50 but Im sure they'll figure that out.


  • Options
    #129
    CatInABox
    Moderators, Computer Games Moderators, Recreation & Hobbies Moderators Posts: 10,232 Mod ✭✭✭✭CatInABox


    Muahahaha wrote: »
    I can see the arguments for the Bray extension. But with the Green line already jammers and the building of 25,000 units at Cherrywood it would be like throwing petrol on a fire.

    Agree that new central lines should take priority though. That said the Finglas extension at only 4km and which opens up the Dublin Industrial Estate to lots of new housing would be an easy win. Just gotta go a bit further for a proper Park and Ride north of the m50 but Im sure they'll figure that out.

    Yeah, I'm pretty sure that they'll extend beyond the M50, just don't know how yet.

    As to the Bray extension, it makes sense, but only if the Metrolink Green Line upgrade is in place. As that's been delayed, so to has the Bray extension. I'm pretty sure that's why the Finglas extension has gone from being very far down in the plans, to being the first priority now that the Metrolink resources are being freed up.


  • Options
    #130
    Peregrine
    Moderators, Education Moderators Posts: 26,399 Mod ✭✭✭✭Peregrine


    Looks like it could be an online consultation for the EPR with online events with the NTA.


  • Options
    #131
    roadmaster
    Registered Users Posts: 3,594 ✭✭✭roadmaster


    Some good news this is taken from a job description for a TII design engineer The role is particularly for key capital projects such as Luas Finglas and Luas Cork). Hopefully this may be a sign it may progress quicker


  • Advertisement
  • Options
    #132
    LXFlyer
    Registered Users Posts: 17,542 ✭✭✭✭LXFlyer


    The minutes of the NTA Board Meeting in May indicate that a non-statutory consultation on the emerging preferred route for the LUAS extension to Finglas will be held shortly (date not specified).


  • Options
    #133
    Kevtherev1
    Registered Users Posts: 154 ✭✭Kevtherev1


    Ok a prediction, i predict Luas Finglas will start construction in Summer 2025. And will open to public at 2pm Saturday December 9th 2028.

    These threads run for years so lets see out it matches up. :P


  • Options
    #134
    Peregrine
    Moderators, Education Moderators Posts: 26,399 Mod ✭✭✭✭Peregrine


    Peregrine wrote: »
    Looks like it could be an online consultation for the EPR with online events with the NTA.

    Starts on 28th July


  • Options
    #135
    noelfirl
    Registered Users Posts: 625 ✭✭✭noelfirl


    https://twitter.com/RoisinShortall/status/1286701128969850882


  • Options
    #136
    p_haugh
    Registered Users Posts: 1,118 ✭✭✭p_haugh


    https://twitter.com/DublinCommuters/status/1286975654202941442?s=19

    Early look at the proposed routing


  • Options
    #137
    AngryLips
    Registered Users Posts: 2,677 ✭✭✭AngryLips


    That's a fairly sharp turn and climb over the Maynooth line ...and only 4 stops, thought it would be more than that.


  • Options
    #138
    MJohnston
    Registered Users Posts: 10,501 ✭✭✭✭MJohnston


    I think the Park and Ride being at Charlestown S.C. is a mistake due to traffic issues onto and off of the N2.

    The P&R should be outside of the M50 on a dedicated M2 junction. Maybe about 1km extra of track and a bridge over the M50.

    I’ll be making a submission to this effect once the consultation starts.


  • Options
    #139
    Muahahaha
    Registered Users Posts: 19,610 ✭✭✭✭Muahahaha


    yeah would agree, park and rides need to be quick to get in and get out of. As it stands there are large traffic back ups to get from Charlestown SC out onto the N2 to head north during rush hour. It would be typical for it to take 10 minutes just to get onto the N2 around 5pm. Its already a busy enough area without bringing several hundred more cars into it for a park and ride. Theres lots of land beside the N2 outside the m50 which would allow cars to get in and out quickly if the Luas just went a further 500m north and terminated there.


  • Options
    #140
    ncounties
    Registered Users Posts: 270 ✭✭ncounties


    MJohnston wrote: »
    I think the Park and Ride being at Charlestown S.C. is a mistake due to traffic issues onto and off of the N2.

    The P&R should be outside of the M50 on a dedicated M2 junction. Maybe about 1km extra of track and a bridge over the M50.

    I’ll be making a submission to this effect once the consultation starts.

    I used to work of Melville Road, and the traffic is horrendous as it is, at the junction of Charlestown place and the N2. I'll make a submission to the same effect.


  • Options
    #141
    Muahahaha
    Registered Users Posts: 19,610 ✭✭✭✭Muahahaha


    yeah will likely make a submission myself to that effect even though Im not in the area all that often anymore. But when I was getting out onto the N2 at rush hour could take a car three or four traffic light sequences and 10 maybe 12 minutes. Adding a park and ride into that mix would be chaos and Im surprised they are even considering it.

    The Luas could go up to the top of the St.Margrets Road and go left at the roundabout after Bord Gais and over the m50 on that bridge (which would have to be widened and presumably strengthened). Then when it gets beyond the Baleskin refuge center about 300 metres after the bridge there are fields there which also border the N2 and would be a good location for a park and ride.


  • Advertisement
  • Options
    #142
    Peregrine
    Moderators, Education Moderators Posts: 26,399 Mod ✭✭✭✭Peregrine


    This could be the same P&R as the BusConnects one. I doubt they'd build two.


  • Options
    #143
    dhaughton99
    Registered Users Posts: 1,695 ✭✭✭dhaughton99


    Kevtherev1 wrote: »
    Ok a prediction, i predict Luas Finglas will start construction in Summer 2025. And will open to public at 2pm Saturday December 9th 2028.

    These threads run for years so lets see out it matches up. :P

    I predict that the country won’t have a pot to piss in around 2025 and Luas Finglas will be long forgotten.


  • Options
    #144
    Muahahaha
    Registered Users Posts: 19,610 ✭✭✭✭Muahahaha


    dhaughton99 wrote: »
    I predict that the country won’t have a pot to piss in around 2025 and Luas Finglas will be long forgotten.


    I think if the country is in recession its actually more likely to go ahead because it is such a small project, just 4kms of track and perhaps around 300m of investment. Were the Metrolink to get postponed due to a recession that then makes the Finglas Luas an easy win for government, it allows them to point at something they are doing and the costs are relatively cheap in the grand scheme of things.


  • Options
    #145
    Idbatterim
    Registered Users Posts: 17,840 ✭✭✭✭Idbatterim


    Hete we go again , basically just come up wity the cheapest option. Build nothing if cost is all they are concerned about and not value...


  • Options
    #146
    AngryLips
    Registered Users Posts: 2,677 ✭✭✭AngryLips


    Idbatterim wrote: »
    Hete we go again , basically just come up wity the cheapest option. Build nothing if cost is all they are concerned about and not value...


    Well for that price you're introducing luas into a new neighbourhood, plus it would further justify the money already spent on the extension to Broombridge because I would hazard a guess that this existing branch probably has the lowest patronage of all the luas arms spanning out of the city centre. For such a low price, it's great value for money and I would hope it acts as a template for more extensions to other parts of the city. Of course, for some people, nothing less than a fully fledged metro is good enough for Dublin regardless of where you want to send it.


  • Options
    #147
    CatInABox
    Moderators, Computer Games Moderators, Recreation & Hobbies Moderators Posts: 10,232 Mod ✭✭✭✭CatInABox


    Looks pretty sensible to me, in fairness. I had been worried that they'd just send it up the Finglas road there, but thankfully they've chosen to run it through the more residential areas there.

    Unsurprised that they stopped it before going over the M50, but I'll be making a submission there too, suggesting that they make the R122 bridge a public transport priority bridge, allowing the locals to still have access, but also allowing the Luas to run across it unimpeded. Not requiring a new bridge should keep the costs down, and would utilise that bridge a bit better.


  • Options
    #148
    roadmaster
    Registered Users Posts: 3,594 ✭✭✭roadmaster


    Is there room at charlestown for a significant P&R?


  • Options
    #149
    Sam Russell
    Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 19,362 Mod ✭✭✭✭Sam Russell


    roadmaster wrote: »
    Is there room at charlestown for a significant P&R?

    How do you get there? It is jammers with local traffic.

    But there is just North of the M50. Cross the M50 on the R122 bridge and turn left. Access the P&R from the N2.


  • Options
    #150
    Pete_Cavan
    Registered Users Posts: 6,704 ✭✭✭Pete_Cavan


    I can't see another junction being added immediately north of the M50, a P&R would have to go at the next existing junction. That would be a fair bit of extra track and would have a significant enough cost. I'm not sure it actually offers that good value when you consider that numbers will be paltry outside of a few hours a day, 5 days a week. The vast majority of the traffic is originating from Ashbourne or Ratoath, better to provide solutions directly from those towns.


  • Advertisement
  • Options
    #151
    Sam Russell
    Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 19,362 Mod ✭✭✭✭Sam Russell


    Pete_Cavan wrote: »
    I can't see another junction being added immediately north of the M50, a P&R would have to go at the next existing junction. That would be a fair bit of extra track and would have a significant enough cost. I'm not sure it actually offers that good value when you consider that numbers will be paltry outside of a few hours a day, 5 days a week. The vast majority of the traffic is originating from Ashbourne or Ratoath, better to provide solutions directly from those towns.

    The R122 is less than 1 km east of the N2 junction, with a nice green field between the two. Perfect for a P&R. It would serve traffic from the M50, M1, and N2. Direct connection to the CC and Sandyford.


Advertisement