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Applying For Sandhurst

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    #62
    Lemming
    Registered Users Posts: 14,148 ✭✭✭✭Lemming


    A.Tomas wrote: »
    http://www.irishstatutebook.ie/1954/en/act/pub/0018/sec0312.html#zza18y1954s312

    And your thoughts on all of this are A Tomas? ... I'm sure that you've cast a fine legal eye over the above link also?

    Seeing as you've so studiously applied a blistering commentary and in-depth opinion on the matter, I'm sure you'll also be posting in all of the non-UK forces threads, of which there have been more than a few of late, now wont you?


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    #63
    A.Tomas
    Registered Users Posts: 159 ✭✭A.Tomas


    Nope.


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    #64
    Lemming
    Registered Users Posts: 14,148 ✭✭✭✭Lemming


    A.Tomas wrote: »
    Nope.

    Yeah, that's what I thought.



    I must be psychic or something ...


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    #65
    REPSOC1916
    Closed Accounts Posts: 162 ✭✭REPSOC1916


    Lemming wrote: »
    And your thoughts on all of this are A Tomas? ... I'm sure that you've cast a fine legal eye over the above link also?

    Seeing as you've so studiously applied a blistering commentary and in-depth opinion on the matter, I'm sure you'll also be posting in all of the non-UK forces threads, of which there have been more than a few of late, now wont you?

    You're breaking the law. And funnily enough the owners of this site are as well by not taking action against this.
    It shall not be lawful for any person—


    (a) to induce, procure or persuade any person in the State to accept or agree to accept any commission or engagement in any military, naval or air force maintained by the Government of any other State, or


    (b) to print within the State or cause or procure to be printed within the State any notice or advertisement in relation to the procurement of personnel for any military, naval or air force maintained by the Government of any other State, or


    (c) to publish or cause or procure to be published within the State any such notice or advertisement as is mentioned in paragraph (b) of this subsection which is printed within the State.


    (2) Every person who acts in contravention of this section shall be guilty of an offence under this section and shall be liable on summary conviction thereof to a fine not exceeding one hundred pounds or, at the discretion of the court, to imprisonment for any term not exceeding six months or to both such fine and imprisonment.

    What has gone on here would be classified as inducing and procuring.


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    #66
    Lemming
    Registered Users Posts: 14,148 ✭✭✭✭Lemming


    REPSOC1916 wrote: »
    You're breaking the law. And funnily enough the owners of this site are as well by not taking action against this.



    What has gone on here would be classified as inducing and procuring.

    I'm no legal expert - nor are you I suspect (and I do also make note of your username). But a rudimentary perusal of the language of that text - and it's all in the language - goes as follows:

    Point a makes reference to induce or otherwise convince people to join a foreign power. Now, nobody has thus far on this thread asked what they should do. Thus nobody has been 'induced' or otherwise persuaded in that regard. The few posters that have expressed interest have asked specific questions and would appear to have already made their minds up on the matter.

    point b makes reference to posting notices i.e. advertisement of recruitment, of which this thread does not fall under. Why? Because it's not a recruitment notice. Further, the OP who created this thread asked a very pointed question regards their own desire to apply.

    So, no. Boards.ie is not breaking the law as best I can tell in my unqualified opinion. If they were, I'm sure this thread - and every other BA/US/FFL/etc. thread would have been long gone.

    Edit: And I'll challenge you to tell me exactly where I have broken the law. Please do. I'm all ears.


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    #67
    A.Tomas
    Registered Users Posts: 159 ✭✭A.Tomas


    Lemming wrote: »
    I'm no legal expert

    point b makes reference to posting notices i.e. advertisement of recruitment, of which this thread does not fall under. Why? Because it's not a recruitment notice. Further, the OP who created this thread asked a very pointed question regards their own desire to apply.

    So, no. Boards.ie is not breaking the law as best I can tell in my unqualified opinion. If they were, I'm sure this thread - and every other BA/US/FFL/etc. thread would have been long gone.

    Edit: And I'll challenge you to tell me exactly where I have broken the law. Please do. I'm all ears.



    I didn't think you were an expert. Indeed, why would a bunch of kids playing army be? But, others are inducing Irish people on an Irish website to join a foreign army through posting links to the British recruiters.


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    #68
    RMD
    Registered Users Posts: 2,662 ✭✭✭RMD


    REPSOC1916 wrote: »
    What has gone on here would be classified as inducing and procuring.

    Advice is offered to those already interested in joining. They were already "induced" and "procured" in essence before the topic was even created. Will you kick up the same problem when someone wants to join the FFL or US forces? Or this just another bit of Brit-bashing?

    If you care about this so much though feel free to report me to the Gardai.


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    #69
    Manic Moran
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 16,223 Mod ✭✭✭✭Manic Moran


    Oddly enough, this issue has already come to the attention of the Boards staff, there's a thread on it over on the moderator's legal issues forum from the last time this came up, in July.

    From the legal mind: "This should be given its plain meaning. That is, that there must be a degree of inducement, procurement or persuasion on a person to accept a position."

    Thanks for reminding me, though, I must add this to the charter update this week. There are still limitations as to what can be said, but nobody has gone there thus far. For example, we can't go about linking to the recruiter websites.

    NTM


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    #70
    goldie fish
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,195 ✭✭✭goldie fish


    Manic Moran wrote: »
    Oddly enough, this issue has already come to the attention of the Boards staff, there's a thread on it over on the moderator's legal issues forum from the last time this came up, in July.

    From the legal mind: "This should be given its plain meaning. That is, that there must be a degree of inducement, procurement or persuasion on a person to accept a position."

    Thanks for reminding me, though, I must add this to the charter update this week. There are still limitations as to what can be said, but nobody has gone there thus far. For example, we can't go about linking to the recruiter websites.

    NTM
    1282628575.jpg


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    #71
    DipStick McSwindler
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,460 ✭✭✭DipStick McSwindler


    This post has been deleted.


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    #72
    shaneybaby
    Registered Users Posts: 415 ✭✭shaneybaby


    I thought this was an all ireland website not just an Irish Republic one? Maybe i'm wrong.

    If it's an Island of Ireland one then there really can't be any issue, who's to say the ad was aimed at Republic citizens. In fact if the law was to be applied strictly then any search engine or such like who returned recruitment info on the FF Legion or the US army would be subject to prosecution.


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    #73
    tac foley
    Registered Users Posts: 5,504 ✭✭✭tac foley


    shaneybaby wrote: »
    I thought this was an all ireland website not just an Irish Republic one? Maybe i'm wrong.

    :D

    tac


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    #74
    OS119
    Registered Users Posts: 2,518 ✭✭✭OS119


    shaneybaby wrote: »
    I thought this was an all ireland website not just an Irish Republic one? Maybe i'm wrong.

    its a very odd deliniation - there's a PSNI recruitment forum on Boards.ie, indicating an 'all Ireland' stance, but a ban on UK Armed Forces recruitment indicating an RoI stance.

    so, its possible to 'recruit' for the armed PSNI officer providing overwatch for the BA IEDD officer, but not that IEDD officer, or the armed PSNI officer sitting in a BA Lynx, or RAF Puma, but not the guy flying it.

    not exactly logical is it?

    and Tac, of course Gunners push the Royal Regiment - Gunners are humanitarians who want people to be the best they possibly can be, not waste their lives with dead end careers such as fast jet pilots, donkey-whallopers, or indeed dirty nut-stranglers!:D


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    #75
    tac foley
    Registered Users Posts: 5,504 ✭✭✭tac foley


    OS119 wrote: »
    ...and Tac, of course Gunners push the Royal Regiment - Gunners are humanitarians who want people to be the best they possibly can be, not waste their lives with dead end careers such as fast jet pilots, donkey-whallopers, or indeed dirty nut-stranglers!:D

    St Barbara for ever!

    Some of the very best times I ever spent were weekend shooting AS90 at Larkhill - from outside the turret...

    Watching those humungous big bullets lofting their way into the clear blue skies as a deceptively slow-moving dot and disappearing over the near horizon....aaaaaah, happy days, eh?

    If I hadn't been what I was, I think that I'd have enjoyed being a gunner.

    tac


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    #76
    Border-Rat
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 921 ✭✭✭Border-Rat


    Interesting. The law is being broken on this forum, and if it isn't, it regularly borders on it with the repeated British military jerk-fest threads. I'll be keeping an eye on this forum.


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    #77
    Delancey
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,451 ✭✭✭Delancey


    OS119 wrote: »
    its a very odd deliniation - there's a PSNI recruitment forum on Boards.ie, indicating an 'all Ireland' stance, but a ban on UK Armed Forces recruitment indicating an RoI stance.

    so, its possible to 'recruit' for the armed PSNI officer providing overwatch for the BA IEDD officer, but not that IEDD officer, or the armed PSNI officer sitting in a BA Lynx, or RAF Puma, but not the guy flying it.

    not exactly logical is it?

    and Tac, of course Gunners push the Royal Regiment - Gunners are humanitarians who want people to be the best they possibly can be, not waste their lives with dead end careers such as fast jet pilots, donkey-whallopers, or indeed dirty nut-stranglers!:D

    PSNI depite being armed are not classed as a military force - simples really :pac:


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    #78
    Poccington
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,497 ✭✭✭Poccington


    Border-Rat wrote: »
    Interesting. The law is being broken on this forum, and if it isn't, it regularly borders on it with the repeated British military jerk-fest threads. I'll be keeping an eye on this forum.

    If you can show and provide concrete evidence, not just your interpretation, where on this forum, that the Defence Act is being breached, I invite you to contact Boards HQ and notify them. Otherwise, I'd suggest that you keep your little threats of "Keeping an eye on this forum" to yourself, or your tenure here will not last much longer.


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    #79
    goldie fish
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,195 ✭✭✭goldie fish


    Poccington wrote: »
    If you can show and provide concrete evidence, not just your interpretation, where on this forum, that the Defence Act is being breached, I invite you to contact Boards HQ and notify them. Otherwise, I'd suggest that you keep your little threats of "Keeping an eye on this forum" to yourself, or your tenure here will not last much longer.


    He/she or someone similar has opened a similarly themed thread on Politics.ie, to stir the barstool rabble that frequent that site. Very sad.
    http://www.politics.ie/forum/defence/182269-british-army-recruitment-irish-website-illegal-surely.html


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    #80
    Manic Moran
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 16,223 Mod ✭✭✭✭Manic Moran


    What other websites do or get up to is their own problem.

    However, to the politics.ie people reading this, welcome, enjoy your visit.

    NTM


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    #81
    DipStick McSwindler
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,460 ✭✭✭DipStick McSwindler


    This post has been deleted.


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    #82
    Morpheus
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 2,688 Mod ✭✭✭✭Morpheus


    Just ignore any terrorist supporters who talk trash and best of luck to you with the brits, only wish i was young enough to join myself now.


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    #83
    DipStick McSwindler
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,460 ✭✭✭DipStick McSwindler


    This post has been deleted.


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    #84
    A.Tomas
    Registered Users Posts: 159 ✭✭A.Tomas


    Poccington wrote: »
    If you can show and provide concrete evidence, not just your interpretation, where on this forum, that the Defence Act is being breached, I invite you to contact Boards HQ and notify them. Otherwise, I'd suggest that you keep your little threats of "Keeping an eye on this forum" to yourself, or your tenure here will not last much longer.



    I think that's a good idea.:)

    It shall not be lawful for any person—

    (a) to induce, procure or persuade any person in the State to accept or agree to accept any commission or engagement in any military, naval or air force maintained by the Government of any other State, or

    (b) to print within the State or cause or procure to be printed within the State any notice or advertisement in relation to the procurement of personnel for any military, naval or air force maintained by the Government of any other State, or

    (c) to publish or cause or procure to be published within the State any such notice or advertisement as is mentioned in paragraph (b) of this subsection which is printed within the State.

    (2) Every person who acts in contravention of this section shall be guilty of an offence under this section and shall be liable on summary conviction thereof to a fine not exceeding one hundred pounds or, at the discretion of the court, to imprisonment for any term not exceeding six months or to both such fine and imprisonment.






    From: "OS119" (who does not say what country he is from or what his occupation is)

    i'm not pisssing on anyones bonfire here, but were i sat on the Irish MB, this is what i'd think: do i believe that OCdt Tybalt is really going to be committed to spending 20 years with the IA doing CIT's into Limerick and fcuking about with sandbags whenever it rains when he has the chance to go to Afghanistan with a fighting Brigade and play with GMLRS, Warrior IFV's, Tornado GR4's, AH-64's and to cut about the Helmand desert with 30 of the finest soldiers on Gods green earth?

    the answer, for anyone who has soldiering at the very core of their being, is no. so, am i going to waste an incredibly precious place on a bloke who either isn't going to turn up, or is going to turn up, but then sod off at the first opportunity because he's bored out of his skin? again, no.

    now, that said, you tipping up and already having a ticket to RMAS shows that soldiering is something you really want to do, and that you're acceptable to an army thats fighting its tits off in Afghanistan, and has more candidates for RMAS than it knows what to do with - so thats a good mark on your sheet, but it also tells me that you might be looking for something the IA can't provide.

    Major General Arthur Denaro is Irish, he commanded an SAS sqn, commanded his Cavalry Regiment in the Gulf War, commanded 5 (Infantry) Division, and was Commandant the Royal Military Academy Sandhurst...
    why RIR /IG? you don't have to join an Irish regiment you know...


    You'd swear Boards.ie, that they trying to recruit them.



    "Master of Destiny":

    If you're still interested he'll arrange for you to attend the Army Officer Selection Board (AOSB) Briefing. Pass that and you'll be invited to attend AOSB Main Board. Pass that and you've earned a place at Sandhurst. Throughout the process you'll also visit branches of the army you're interested in, these are called familiarisation (Fam) visits or potential officer (PO) visits. I haven't explained a lot of these terms or what they entail because frankly you can google them and find out for yourself. Also check out http://www.arrse.co.uk/


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    #85
    goldie fish
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,195 ✭✭✭goldie fish


    things on the internet, from a legal POV, are not considered printed matter. Try again.


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    #86
    Manic Moran
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 16,223 Mod ✭✭✭✭Manic Moran


    [Mod]You know, enough of the legal argument. The position of this forum, until I am countermanded by higher authority who have been aware of this issue for months, is that factual discussion to include comparisons of benefits, conditions and duties is permitted as long as there is no demonstable intent to induce someone to join who otherwise may not have.

    Persons who have an objection to this position are entitled to contact Board Admins, the DPP or the DoD.
    [/Mod]

    NTM


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    #87
    OS119
    Registered Users Posts: 2,518 ✭✭✭OS119


    goldie fish wrote: »
    things on the internet, from a legal POV, are not considered printed matter. Try again.

    as importantly, the 'outraged' individual concerned even failed to read the post properly - no inducement, no persuasion, and no procurement. i'll sleep easy in my bed tonight...


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    #88
    DipStick McSwindler
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,460 ✭✭✭DipStick McSwindler


    This post has been deleted.


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    #89
    Manic Moran
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 16,223 Mod ✭✭✭✭Manic Moran


    Not a bad idea.


This discussion has been closed.
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