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Carlsen vs Karjakin FIDE World Chess Championship 2016 NYC

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    #32
    ComDubh
    Closed Accounts Posts: 108 ✭✭ComDubh


    I feel like Carlsen has been messing about, not taking his task that seriously and waiting for a win to fall into his lap. After yesterday's cold shower, will he be able to collect himself and show that he truly is one of the all-time greats? I hope so.


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    #33
    Tim Harding
    Closed Accounts Posts: 954 ✭✭✭Tim Harding


    Carlsen seems to have had a death-wish in yesterday's game. I agree it's a real test for him now to play proper chess and somehow win at least one of the last four games without losing another.

    It's bad news for the people behind the new documentary movie about him (opening at the Irish Film Theatre and maybe elsewhere next weekend). They should have opened the film before the match; very bad marketing by them if Carlsen is dethroned!


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    #34
    osmiumartist
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 916 ✭✭✭osmiumartist


    Craaaaap. Jan and Pete had me convinced it was a definite draw and I turned in. Magnus lost his nerve first and blew it. Could be all over, but definitely a better (in the entertainment) few games ahead!


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    #35
    Tim Harding
    Closed Accounts Posts: 954 ✭✭✭Tim Harding


    I also missed the finish for the same reason - with the additional excuse that it was an hour later where I am at present and there was a tournament game to play next day.

    I wouldn't say Magnus lost his nerve - he had too much of that - but he lost his sense of balance which is normally so assured and then missed some tactic or other, probably that Qf5 would be met by ...Ng4+ forcing off queens and promoting the a-pawn. Danny King's video on the ChessBase site is worth a watch.


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    #36
    osmiumartist
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 916 ✭✭✭osmiumartist


    Magnus will probably go for the 8 hour pawn push game tonight. He's pretty good at it usually to be fair.


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    #37
    Tim Harding
    Closed Accounts Posts: 954 ✭✭✭Tim Harding


    Carlsen levels the match in Game 10. I am waiting for a good explanation of why Karjakin either didn't see or rejected the forced draw that commentators are saying was there for him with Nxf2+ at moves 20 and 21.


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    #38
    Inquitus
    Registered Users Posts: 13,734 ✭✭✭✭Inquitus


    Tim Harding wrote: »
    Carlsen levels the match in Game 10. I am waiting for a good explanation of why Karjakin either didn't see or rejected the forced draw that commentators are saying was there for him with Nxf2+ at moves 20 and 21.

    He didn't see it he said in the post match press conference, he would have taken it in heartbeat leaving him 1 up with 2 to play and annulling one of Carlsen's only 2 white games.


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    #39
    Tychoo
    Closed Accounts Posts: 175 ✭✭Tychoo


    :)And he's back in the game:D


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    #40
    sodacat11
    Registered Users Posts: 1,297 ✭✭✭sodacat11


    We are now two games away from a meaningless speedchess play off. Whoever wins (hopefully Karjakin) I hope that they at least can do it in a classical chess game, otherwise we may as well just toss a coin to see is the world champion. What a far cry this is from the great matches of the past Kasparov v Karpov,, Fischer v Spassky,, Alekhine v Capablanca,, Bronstein v Botvinnik to name but a few.


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    #41
    ComDubh
    Closed Accounts Posts: 108 ✭✭ComDubh


    The 12-game format doesn't lend itself to a titanic struggle alas. I hope Carlsen wins as he really plays chess -- the positions may be dry but but creates wins of of the tiniest of pluses, better than the deadeningly dull draws many of the others produce. I also think he'll show himself to be one of the greatest players of all time, whereas I don't think Karjakin is in this league.


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    #42
    Inquitus
    Registered Users Posts: 13,734 ✭✭✭✭Inquitus


    sodacat11 wrote: »
    We are now two games away from a meaningless speedchess play off. Whoever wins (hopefully Karjakin) I hope that they at least can do it in a classical chess game, otherwise we may as well just toss a coin to see is the world champion. What a far cry this is from the great matches of the past Kasparov v Karpov,, Fischer v Spassky,, Alekhine v Capablanca,, Bronstein v Botvinnik to name but a few.

    Indeed since 1984 we have gone from first to 6 wins, to best of 24 matches in 85, to best of 12 in recent times, with the potential for coin toss speedchess to decide.

    I like the 85 format, 24 games and if it's tied at the end the champion retains the title.


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    #43
    Tim Harding
    Closed Accounts Posts: 954 ✭✭✭Tim Harding


    Inquitus wrote: »
    He didn't see it he said in the post match press conference, he would have taken it in heartbeat leaving him 1 up with 2 to play and annulling one of Carlsen's only 2 white games.

    Wesley So's annotations are now up at

    http://en.chessbase.com/post/newsblog-wcc-carlsen-karjakin-2016-11-25-en

    He's saying that 20...Nxf2+ might have been risky as Carlsen could have gone for two rooks versus knight - a variation that Svidler and Gustafsson found eventually on chess24. But Wesley says that after 20...d5 21 Qh5 Karjakin definitely had a draw with 21...Nxf2+ if correctly followed up (not easy).

    I guess we won't have definitive notes to the crucial games in the match until the next issue of New In Chess is published.


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    #44
    sodacat11
    Registered Users Posts: 1,297 ✭✭✭sodacat11


    I turned on chess24 at 7,40 tonight expecting to see an exciting final game and it was already over,what a farce!! This has got to be the stupidest world title match ever. Blitz or rapid is no way to decide the champion.
    I blame FIDE, it has been slowly but surely ruining classical chess with the silly new time controls where we don't even have 2 hours for 40 moves.The only advantage I can see with this is for the arbiters who (like teachers) get paid more for working less.


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    #45
    Inquitus
    Registered Users Posts: 13,734 ✭✭✭✭Inquitus


    Magnus trusts he is the best Rapid/Blitz player on the planet and allows an easy draw, you can't blame him, the facts say he is!


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    #46
    Inquitus
    Registered Users Posts: 13,734 ✭✭✭✭Inquitus


    sodacat11 wrote: »
    I turned on chess24 at 7,40 tonight expecting to see an exciting final game and it was already over,what a farce!! This has got to be the stupidest world title match ever. Blitz or rapid is no way to decide the champion.
    I blame FIDE, it has been slowly but surely ruining classical chess with the silly new time controls where we don't even have 2 hours for 40 moves.The only advantage I can see with this is for the arbiters who (like teachers) get paid more for working less.

    I agree, a coin toss to decide initial colour and play classic every day until we have a game winner would be a more appropriate tie breaker.


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    #47
    osmiumartist
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 916 ✭✭✭osmiumartist


    Inquitus wrote: »
    Magnus trusts he is the best Rapid/Blitz player on the planet and allows an easy draw, you can't blame him, the facts say he is!
    Although the same could be said about classical and how did that work out...:D
    Dire last game, and yeah, missed half of it!


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    #48
    Inquitus
    Registered Users Posts: 13,734 ✭✭✭✭Inquitus


    osmiumartist wrote: »
    Although the same could be said about classical and how did that work out...:D
    Dire last game, and yeah, missed half of it!

    Agreed, but statistically speaking his chances in 1 classic game with white are worse than his chances in 4 rapid games........at least according to Jan's estimates which I would agree with.


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    #49
    EnPassant
    Registered Users Posts: 273 ✭✭EnPassant


    Inquitus wrote: »
    Magnus trusts he is the best Rapid/Blitz player on the planet and allows an easy draw, you can't blame him, the facts say he is!
    osmiumartist wrote: »
    Although the same could be said about classical and how did that work out...:D

    Both Karjakin and Carlsen have previously won the World Rapid Play Championship ...

    Maybe we should have a similar play-off for the Irish Championship in future instead of having joint champions ... it could be run online if the players lived far apart.


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    #50
    Tim Harding
    Closed Accounts Posts: 954 ✭✭✭Tim Harding


    This has been undoubtedly the most boring and least inspiring World Championship match in living memory and this game was the nadir.

    FIDE are largely to blame because the 12-game format leaves so little room for recovery from error. Carlsen at least made some effort to win some games (and it cost him one).

    Karjakin has been totally negative and it will be very bad for chess if he wins the play-off.
    Carlsen does not deserve much praise, though.


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    #51
    Sicilian Slayer
    Registered Users Posts: 1 ✭Sicilian Slayer


    I agree that this was a disappointing match, but would 24 boring games be any better than 12? Perhaps the solution is a 1948 style world championship tournament with 3 points for a win.


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    #52
    osmiumartist
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 916 ✭✭✭osmiumartist


    The whole format only makes sense when the match could potentially last for months, which now it can't. May as well just have a tournament to decide it, or give the cash to the best performance over the year.


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    #53
    sodacat11
    Registered Users Posts: 1,297 ✭✭✭sodacat11


    osmiumartist wrote: »
    The whole format only makes sense when the match could potentially last for months, which now it can't. May as well just have a tournament to decide it, or give the cash to the best performance over the year.
    I think that they should play an uneven number of games e.g 21 with the challenger getting the extra white but if the match ends level then the champion retains his crown.
    Having rapid to decide the classic chess world champion is ridiculous,they may just as well play  table tennis or snooker  to decide..


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    #54
    L1m1tless
    Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 2,164 Mod ✭✭✭✭L1m1tless


    Can't believe Magnus missed a mate in 22. Such a n00b :D


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    #55
    osmiumartist
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 916 ✭✭✭osmiumartist


    Sergey's up that creek without a paddle... could be over if Carlsen presses this time!

    Breathtaking. There's really nothing like Magnus in the mood.


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    #56
    Inquitus
    Registered Users Posts: 13,734 ✭✭✭✭Inquitus


    osmiumartist wrote: »
    Sergey's up that creek without a paddle... could be over if Carlsen presses this time!

    Breathtaking. There's really nothing like Magnus in the mood.

    Obtained, arguable the advantage, with either side of the board in every rapid game, hard to see how he loses with white in the final rapid and doesn't win the WC.


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    #57
    ComDubh
    Closed Accounts Posts: 108 ✭✭ComDubh


    And ugly match overall, but finished with the prettiest mate!


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    #58
    Tychoo
    Closed Accounts Posts: 175 ✭✭Tychoo


    Thank God its over. Well done to Carlsen but Fide will have to look at the format for the next championship. I think a lot of PR damage has been done to chess


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