Carlsen vs Karjakin FIDE World Chess Championship 2016 NYC

Absoluvely

Game 1 of the World Championship starts in under 4 hours! The build-up of anticipation and excitement across this forum over the past few weeks has been scintillating.


Magnus Carlsen has won 6, drawn 14 and lost just 1 game over the past two championships. Whereas this will be Karjakin's first World Chamionship experience. The Norwegian is a heavy favourite, but in a year of Brexit beating Bremain, Ireland beating NZ and Trump beating Hillary, can Sergey beat Magnus? Is this going to be the first of many Carlsen-Karjakin World Championship matches?


Following Agon's failure to secure injunctions to block the transmission of all unofficial match coverage, including the moves themselves, you can follow the event for free on chess24.com. GM Eric Hansen & GM Robin van Kampen have been announced as commentators. https://chess24.com/en/watch/live-tournaments/carlsen-karjakin-world-chess-championship-2016/1/1/1

You are also welcome to pay $15 to watch it on the official site. http://nyc2016.fide.com/


My prediction: Carlsen 6.5 - 4.5 Karjakin after 11 games.


From what I can gather, this is the playing schedule.

Day |Date|Round|Irish Time|White Pieces
Friday|11th|

1

|19:00|Carlsen
Saturday|12th|

2

|19:00|Karjakin
Sunday|13th|Rest Day|
Monday|14th|

3

|19:00|Carlsen
Tuesday|15th|

4

|19:00|Karjakin
Wednesday|16th|Rest Day|
Thursday|17th|

5

|19:00|Carlsen
Friday|18th|

6

|19:00|Karjakin
Saturday|19th|Rest Day|
Sunday|20th|

7

|19:00|Karjakin
Monday|21st|

8

|19:00|Carlsen
Tuesday|22nd|Rest Day|
Wednesday|23rd|

9

|19:00|Karjakin
Thursday|24th|

10

|19:00|Carlsen
Friday|25th|Rest Day|
Saturday|26th|

11

|19:00|Karjakin
Sunday|27th|Rest Day|
Monday|28th|

12

|19:00|Carlsen
Tuesday|29th|Rest Day|
Wednesday|30th|Tie Breaks|

cdeb

So 1-1 after two opening draws. Neither a classic particularly; an interesting nuance in the endgame in the first (20. g4 instead of the played 20. g3), and a curious discussion about Ireland's rugby and football successes in the chess.com comments on the second game.

Obviously with a relatively short and important match, it's a bit much to expect fireworks from the off. But I guess let's see how the next couple of rounds go.

sodacat11

Twelve games is far too short for a world championship match and pays little respect to the tradition of such matches.
Worse still is the possibility of a penalty shoot out at the end of it. It would be much better to have a 21 game match with the challenger getting the extra white then in the event of a tie the champion retains his title.
I would love to see Karjakin win the title but if I had the choice between Carlsen doing so in normal time or Karjakin winning some meaningless shoot out then I would prefer the former.
History and tradition seems to mean nothing to people any more.

Tychoo

Am i wrong but they don't seem to be the same buzz about this series of games compared to the last.

L1m1tless

I think there would be more buzz if Caruana had won the candidates.

caissa007

L1m1tless wrote: »

I think there would be more buzz if Caruana had won the candidates.

I think there would also have been more buzz if big Vlad had got candidates wild card and had got a crack at Carlsen.

sodacat11

The Kramnik/ Caruana points are very valid. I think too that the world championship lost a lot with Fischer's defection then the farcical Kasparov v Short match and the times we had two "world champions" (some of the FIDE ones I can't even remember , was Ponomariov or Khalifman one of them??). The title is also being devalued by the use of tie breakers in the process. If someone wins by means of blitz or rapid then all it means is that they are better at THAT form of chess. A world championship should purely be about classic chess.

caissa007

sodacat11 wrote: »

The Kramnik/ Caruana points are very valid. I think too that the world championship lost a lot with Fischer's defection then the farcical Kasparov v Short match and the times we had two "world champions" (some of the FIDE ones I can't even remember , was Ponomariov or Khalifman one of them??). The title is also being devalued by the use of tie breakers in the process. If someone wins by means of blitz or rapid then all it means is that they are better at THAT form of chess. A world championship should purely be about classic chess.

Personally I'm much more concerned about the shorter matches. I think the FIDE "championships" can be just ignored. Even 16 game matches would avoid the possibility of relative journeymen like Gelfand or Karjakin intruding on the pantheon of greats stretching back to Steinitz. Other than arguably Euwe there have been no flukey world champions. I'd hate to see a "lesser" light join this group

sodacat11

caissa007 wrote: »

Personally I'm much more concerned about the shorter matches. I think the FIDE "championships" can be just ignored. Even 16 game matches would avoid the possibility of relative journeymen like Gelfand or Karjakin intruding on the pantheon of greats stretching back to Steinitz. Other than arguably Euwe there have been no flukey world champions. I'd hate to see a "lesser" light join this group

I used to share your view of Max Euwe until I read a very interesting article on him in NIC some time ago. He was a much greater talent than we give him credit for. Quite apart from him,I think any player in any era that can get into the top ten or twelve players in the world is worthy of respect.

Tim Harding

Euwe was a worthy world champion though lucky to catch Alekhine when he wasn't entirely sober.

Kasimdzhanov and Ponomariov winning the FIDE world title in knockout tournaments (equivalent to World Cups) was a bad joke, though they were both reasonably strong GMs, and of course chose the right time to peak.

zeitnot

caissa007 wrote: »

sodacat11 wrote: »

The Kramnik/ Caruana points are very valid. I think too that the world championship lost a lot with Fischer's defection then the farcical Kasparov v Short match and the times we had two "world champions" (some of the FIDE ones I can't even remember , was Ponomariov or Khalifman one of them??). The title is also being devalued by the use of tie breakers in the process. If someone wins by means of blitz or rapid then all it means is that they are better at THAT form of chess. A world championship should purely be about classic chess.

Personally I'm much more concerned about the shorter matches.

I was too. But then I read some remarks from players in the 60's who hated the system of Candidates matches. They felt they were playing far too many games and that FIDE didn't care what they thought. All the players at the top now say that 12 games should be enough.
I agree that a rapid playoff is ridiculous.

L1m1tless

Chance for Magnus to win here in Game 3

Tim Harding

At 1115 pm (after 45...Rh3) Magnus looks like he realises he has let Karjakin off, or at least made it much harder for himself.

On Worldchess, Nepo reckons White should have played Rb8 (I think he means at move 42).

Tychoo

So what's happened. Is the game over.

Tim Harding

Tychoo wrote: »

So what's happened. Is the game over.

NO, watch at

https://chess24.com/en/watch/live-tournaments/carlsen-karjakin-world-chess-championship-2016/1/1/3

Tychoo

Sound Tim.

Bombadil10

Some exciting twists and turns at the end of game 3. Karjakin allowed himself to be put in a very difficult position and then made a blunder that Carlsen failed to capitalise on. Can hardly be blamed after 6 hours of play and with so little time on the clock. Great to see such dynamic endgames being played at this level.

osmiumartist

Sergey already looks like he'll be manning the battlements for the evening.

Tychoo

Another draw. The tension is building

Tychoo

Another draw yesterday. Very little chatter here on the boards. Shows the level of interest is low.

cdeb

I was actually a bit surprised to see round 5 had been played already when I checked earlier today!

The games are picking up a bit after the first two quiet draws. But it does need a win soon at this stage I think.

L1m1tless

I watch the games each evening but not much to chat about really. The commentary on Chess24 is pretty funny though

Inquitus

It's kinda short for a world champs with just 12 standard format games. A win either way at this point would be huge and require a rethink by the loser. Carlsen came close a couple of times, but Sergey's endgame defence has been faultless. Magnus with black today again, but then the closest game to a result was Magnus with black a few days ago.

L1m1tless

Enter our world chpionships comp on the curragh facebook page

osmiumartist

L1m1tless wrote: »

I watch the games each evening but not much to chat about really. The commentary on Chess24 is pretty funny though

Why is Van Wely even there. He's a miserable git.
Hansen isn't always my favourite but this is basically a one man show.
Carlsen has no angles against Sergey at all. Amazing. Could be a template to follow for the others. At least it leaves them in with a chance.

Tim Harding

Chess24 say they will have their top team Svidler + Gustafsson for the second half of the match starting Sunday, so the quality of the commentary should drastically improve. And it certainly needs to.
Let's hope that Magnus Carlsen manages to land a (metaphorical) punch on Putin-loving Karjakin when he next gets White.

osmiumartist

D4... who knows, might be interesting...

And the chess24 coverage is very entertaining.

Tim Harding

Magnus is lucky his blunder was not fatal. So 7 draws and he has survived "Amen Corner" and can enjoy three Whites in the last five games. At least I hope he enjoys them.

Tim Harding

Magnus is sailing close to the wind tonight, with risky 19 Nb5 not being answered by 19...Qg5! as expected by Svidler on chess24. Just when a draw seemed likely it is hotting up and all results are possible.
Karjakin is having a big think about move 20.

osmiumartist

Much better viewing than the last few games. Balanced but with possibilities.

Ficheall

h5! :pac:

ComDubh

I feel like Carlsen has been messing about, not taking his task that seriously and waiting for a win to fall into his lap. After yesterday's cold shower, will he be able to collect himself and show that he truly is one of the all-time greats? I hope so.

Tim Harding

Carlsen seems to have had a death-wish in yesterday's game. I agree it's a real test for him now to play proper chess and somehow win at least one of the last four games without losing another.

It's bad news for the people behind the new documentary movie about him (opening at the Irish Film Theatre and maybe elsewhere next weekend). They should have opened the film before the match; very bad marketing by them if Carlsen is dethroned!

osmiumartist

Craaaaap. Jan and Pete had me convinced it was a definite draw and I turned in. Magnus lost his nerve first and blew it. Could be all over, but definitely a better (in the entertainment) few games ahead!

Tim Harding

I also missed the finish for the same reason - with the additional excuse that it was an hour later where I am at present and there was a tournament game to play next day.

I wouldn't say Magnus lost his nerve - he had too much of that - but he lost his sense of balance which is normally so assured and then missed some tactic or other, probably that Qf5 would be met by ...Ng4+ forcing off queens and promoting the a-pawn. Danny King's video on the ChessBase site is worth a watch.

osmiumartist

Magnus will probably go for the 8 hour pawn push game tonight. He's pretty good at it usually to be fair.

Tim Harding

Carlsen levels the match in Game 10. I am waiting for a good explanation of why Karjakin either didn't see or rejected the forced draw that commentators are saying was there for him with Nxf2+ at moves 20 and 21.

Inquitus

Tim Harding wrote: »

Carlsen levels the match in Game 10. I am waiting for a good explanation of why Karjakin either didn't see or rejected the forced draw that commentators are saying was there for him with Nxf2+ at moves 20 and 21.

He didn't see it he said in the post match press conference, he would have taken it in heartbeat leaving him 1 up with 2 to play and annulling one of Carlsen's only 2 white games.

Tychoo

:)And he's back in the game:D

sodacat11

We are now two games away from a meaningless speedchess play off. Whoever wins (hopefully Karjakin) I hope that they at least can do it in a classical chess game, otherwise we may as well just toss a coin to see is the world champion. What a far cry this is from the great matches of the past Kasparov v Karpov,, Fischer v Spassky,, Alekhine v Capablanca,, Bronstein v Botvinnik to name but a few.

ComDubh

The 12-game format doesn't lend itself to a titanic struggle alas. I hope Carlsen wins as he really plays chess -- the positions may be dry but but creates wins of of the tiniest of pluses, better than the deadeningly dull draws many of the others produce. I also think he'll show himself to be one of the greatest players of all time, whereas I don't think Karjakin is in this league.

Inquitus

sodacat11 wrote: »

We are now two games away from a meaningless speedchess play off. Whoever wins (hopefully Karjakin) I hope that they at least can do it in a classical chess game, otherwise we may as well just toss a coin to see is the world champion. What a far cry this is from the great matches of the past Kasparov v Karpov,, Fischer v Spassky,, Alekhine v Capablanca,, Bronstein v Botvinnik to name but a few.

Indeed since 1984 we have gone from first to 6 wins, to best of 24 matches in 85, to best of 12 in recent times, with the potential for coin toss speedchess to decide.

I like the 85 format, 24 games and if it's tied at the end the champion retains the title.

Tim Harding

Inquitus wrote: »

He didn't see it he said in the post match press conference, he would have taken it in heartbeat leaving him 1 up with 2 to play and annulling one of Carlsen's only 2 white games.

Wesley So's annotations are now up at

http://en.chessbase.com/post/newsblog-wcc-carlsen-karjakin-2016-11-25-en

He's saying that 20...Nxf2+ might have been risky as Carlsen could have gone for two rooks versus knight - a variation that Svidler and Gustafsson found eventually on chess24. But Wesley says that after 20...d5 21 Qh5 Karjakin definitely had a draw with 21...Nxf2+ if correctly followed up (not easy).

I guess we won't have definitive notes to the crucial games in the match until the next issue of New In Chess is published.

sodacat11

I turned on chess24 at 7,40 tonight expecting to see an exciting final game and it was already over,what a farce!! This has got to be the stupidest world title match ever. Blitz or rapid is no way to decide the champion.
I blame FIDE, it has been slowly but surely ruining classical chess with the silly new time controls where we don't even have 2 hours for 40 moves.The only advantage I can see with this is for the arbiters who (like teachers) get paid more for working less.

Inquitus

Magnus trusts he is the best Rapid/Blitz player on the planet and allows an easy draw, you can't blame him, the facts say he is!

Inquitus

sodacat11 wrote: »

I turned on chess24 at 7,40 tonight expecting to see an exciting final game and it was already over,what a farce!! This has got to be the stupidest world title match ever. Blitz or rapid is no way to decide the champion.
I blame FIDE, it has been slowly but surely ruining classical chess with the silly new time controls where we don't even have 2 hours for 40 moves.The only advantage I can see with this is for the arbiters who (like teachers) get paid more for working less.

I agree, a coin toss to decide initial colour and play classic every day until we have a game winner would be a more appropriate tie breaker.

osmiumartist

Inquitus wrote: »

Magnus trusts he is the best Rapid/Blitz player on the planet and allows an easy draw, you can't blame him, the facts say he is!

Although the same could be said about classical and how did that work out...:D
Dire last game, and yeah, missed half of it!

Inquitus

osmiumartist wrote: »

Although the same could be said about classical and how did that work out...:D
Dire last game, and yeah, missed half of it!

Agreed, but statistically speaking his chances in 1 classic game with white are worse than his chances in 4 rapid games........at least according to Jan's estimates which I would agree with.

EnPassant

Inquitus wrote: »

Magnus trusts he is the best Rapid/Blitz player on the planet and allows an easy draw, you can't blame him, the facts say he is!

osmiumartist wrote: »

Although the same could be said about classical and how did that work out...:D

Both Karjakin and Carlsen have previously won the World Rapid Play Championship ...

Maybe we should have a similar play-off for the Irish Championship in future instead of having joint champions ... it could be run online if the players lived far apart.

Tim Harding

This has been undoubtedly the most boring and least inspiring World Championship match in living memory and this game was the nadir.

FIDE are largely to blame because the 12-game format leaves so little room for recovery from error. Carlsen at least made some effort to win some games (and it cost him one).

Karjakin has been totally negative and it will be very bad for chess if he wins the play-off.
Carlsen does not deserve much praise, though.

Sicilian Slayer

I agree that this was a disappointing match, but would 24 boring games be any better than 12? Perhaps the solution is a 1948 style world championship tournament with 3 points for a win.