Louise O'Neill on manned mission to Mars: "Why not go to Venus?" (MOD Warning post 1)

Wibbs · 13-11-2017 2:48pm

Grayson wrote: »

Are you saying that some feminists have rape fantasies about living in a totalitarian society?

Can you explain how you came to that conclusion.

Here we go... Oh and in before the "he said rape and fantasy, ohmigod!! *triggered* He is a rape apologist" or some such ballsology. The relevant word here is fantasy. Just so we're clear. Definition and explanations concerning the topic here.

A rigid totalitarian society with overtones of Judaeo-Christian sexual power and shame and women forced into sexual trysts with men, the main man of the story being a good looking bloke(Joseph Fiennes in the TV adaptation), that engages more because of the heroine's personality and appeal and extends the "relationship" beyond the perfunctory act required. So referencing that Psychology Today link we have elements of sexual blame avoidance and sexual desirability and only our heroine can change him, tame the hated powerful man(a staple of romance novels across time and culture). Throw in the feminist take of late(which Atwood has been uncomfortable about). So yeah one could argue the "rape fantasy" angle, as I have.

One might imagine if we did live in a patriarchal society in the west(and I would argue we most certainly don't, socially anyway), that The Handmaid's Tale would resonate with and have more appeal to men. What with all the nooky on tap from very controlled women, it's essentially a harem fantasy, but it doesn't.

Ulysses Gaze · 13-11-2017 2:49pm

Prune Tracy wrote: »

"It’s all too much for me so I take refuge under the bedcovers and am eventually coaxed out by my mother who helps me pack. And when I say help me pack, I mean that I supervise. And when I say supervise, I mean I yell at her for packing the dark grey hoodie when I clearly said the light grey hoodie. She then places the suitcases in the car, buckling under their weight..."

I remember reading that and thinking surely a feminist would have more respect for her mother.

She also said Ireland is like The Handmaid's Tale.

Been reading about Yemen this weekend and to be honest I'm still in fecking bits. Beyond upsetting. Of course there is nothing wrong with addressing problems in your own country but it's the lack of perspective that gets me.

It's making a mockery of feminism.

splinter65 · 13-11-2017 2:49pm

anna080 wrote: »

I'm starting to think I'm living in a parallel universe where I get by day to day without anyone offending me. I get up, go to work, use public transport- nobody says anything inappropriate. I work with people, men and women, who are all perfectly lovely- nobody shows anybody any penises (penii?) I sometimes walk home, and pass many people in the street, nobody harasses me or pulls down their trousers and pants.
I mean, who are these people?
Maybe I'm just really ugly.

No I’m the same as you Anna and I think? I’m older than you.
30+ years out there in the adult world every single day and no penises whatsoever.
No molestations, no discrimination no fondling.
Nada. Zilch.

PeterParker957 · 13-11-2017 2:50pm

Hector Savage wrote: »

Exactly, no one is suggesting anyone wants to be raped !
But these people wallow in their "victimhood" ...

The whole #MeToo is utter s***e.

Now this:

http://www.thejournal.ie/hollywood-march-sexual-assault-3694243-Nov2017/

How much more ????

Hector Savage · 13-11-2017 2:51pm

PeterParker957 wrote: »

Our resident feminist was all over this series.

Her "equal life partner" (I s**t you not, that's what she calls the poor schmuck ELP for short) is called Conor and I really expected her to changer name to OffCon.

Bat crap crazy stuff.

My God, the poor guy ... is this him ?
article-1353274-0D06CEF1000005DC-459_1024x615_large.jpg

PeterParker957 · 13-11-2017 2:52pm

Wibbs wrote: »

Here we go... Oh and in before the "he said rape and fantasy, ohmigod!! *triggered* He is a rape apologist" or some such ballsology. The relevant word here is fantasy. Just so we're clear. Definition and explanations concerning the topic here.

A rigid totalitarian society with overtones of Judaeo-Christian sexual power and shame and women forced into sexual trysts with men, the main man of the story being a good looking bloke(Joseph Fiennes in the TV adaptation), that engages more because of the heroine's personality and appeal and extends the "relationship" beyond the perfunctory act required. So referencing that Psychology Today link we have elements of sexual blame avoidance and sexual desirability and only our heroine can change him, tame the hated powerful man(a staple of romance novels across time and culture). Throw in the feminist take of late(which Atwood has been uncomfortable about). So yeah one could argue the "rape fantasy" angle, as I have.

One might imagine if we did live in a patriarchal society in the west(and I would argue we most certainly don't, socially anyway), that The Handmaid's Tale would resonate with and have more appeal to men. What with all the nooky on tap from very controlled women, it's essentially a harem fantasy, but it doesn't.

@Wibbs - the work nut job went on a rant once about how all men seem to think women just want to be subservient to them, how they think men want women to bow to their every need and practically be a man's sex slave.

Went on for a good ten minutes.

She only stopped as her and her sister we're going to queue up to watch the first Fifty Shades film.

#irony

PeterParker957 · 13-11-2017 2:52pm

Hector Savage wrote: »

My God, the poor guy ... is this him ?

I imagine so yeah!!!!!!!

Wibbs · 13-11-2017 2:56pm

Grayson wrote: »

Considering that statistically something like 1/4 women will experience some kind of sexual assault

That "statistic" is based on and originates with the 1980's Koss study - and I use that term very bloody loosely - of college students and has been referenced ever since as a "fact"(though depending on who one reads it can go from 1 in 3 to 1 in 6). Said Koss study was so full of holes Swiss cheese factories are jealous. The questionnaire was a mess of leading questions, but most of all it was Koss who decided on behalf of the women polled who was assaulted and who wasn't. Even when the women themselves stated quite clearly they hadn't been and it was consensual.

Prune Tracy · 13-11-2017 2:58pm

Ulysses Gaze wrote: »

Yep, Ireland doesn't have abortion so it's like Gilead - where women can't work, can't drive, can't own anything and are forced into surrogacy. Twilight Zone **** like.

Ulysses Gaze · 13-11-2017 3:02pm

Prune Tracy wrote: »

Yep, Ireland doesn't have abortion so it's like Gilead - where women can't work, can't drive, can't own anything and are forced into surrogacy. Twilight Zone **** like.

Pockets of the Gilead world may exist in the West, but they are more likely to exist in cultures that have been imported from the Third World. Cultures that the Far-Left, and feminists, increasingly defend to the hilt btw.

But Gilead almost certainly exists in the Middle-East. And even in South Asia to a degree.

Grayson · 13-11-2017 3:03pm

Prune Tracy wrote: »

Think he was just using the term "rape fantasy" as a metaphor for wanting to be oppressed - and it really does seem that way.

I am a woman, who deplores misogyny, wants the 8th repealed, wants women to be seen as more than just how sexy we are etc, but this version of feminism is just victimhood seeking.

I still don't see how rape fantasy means wants to be oppressed. It's a fcuking horrific phease to use. Implying that certain women want to be raped.

Grayson · 13-11-2017 3:09pm

Ulysses Gaze wrote: »

Pockets of the Gilead world may exist in the West, but they are more likely to exist in cultures that have been imported from the Third World. Cultures that the Far-Left, and feminists, increasingly defend to the hilt btw.

But Gilead almost certainly exists in the Middle-East. And even in South Asia to a degree.

When I think of those cultures in the west I think of fundamentalist mormons, fundamentalist christians like mennonites, some dodgy baptist congregations and Opus Dei.
If you want to see a horrific story you should read about the mennonites in Bolivia and the 2013 rape case.

BTW, where are these feminists that defend cultures that oppress women. I can't think of any feminist that has ever defended Saudi.

PeterParker957 · 13-11-2017 3:10pm

Grayson wrote: »

I still don't see how rape fantasy means wants to be oppressed. It's a fcuking horrific phease to use. Implying that certain women want to be raped.

Plenty of women have used it. They're just as sick.

Prune Tracy · 13-11-2017 3:11pm

Grayson wrote: »

I still don't see how rape fantasy means wants to be oppressed. It's a fcuking horrific phease to use. Implying that certain women want to be raped.

It's a metaphor. It's not literal so it's not implying anyone actually wants to be raped. And rape fantasy is a thing in role-play. I can't understand it for the life of me but it exists. Also, look at S&M.

Prune Tracy · 13-11-2017 3:13pm

Grayson wrote: »

When I think of those cultures in the west I think of fundamentalist mormons, fundamentalist christians like mennonites, some dodgy baptist congregations and Opus Dei.
If you want to see a horrific story you should read about the mennonites in Bolivia and the 2013 rape case.

BTW, where are these feminists that defend cultures that oppress women. I can't think of any feminist that has ever defended Saudi.

They're not defending them - they're pretending it's as bad in the west. Yes I know that mennonites case and thankfully it's not typical of the west at all.

PeterParker957 · 13-11-2017 3:13pm

Prune Tracy wrote: »

It's a metaphor. It's not literal so it's not implying anyone actually wants to be raped. And rape fantasy is a thing in role-play. I can't understand it for the life of me but it exists. Also, look at S&M.

+1

Pardon the pun but it beats the hell out of me.

Wombatman · 13-11-2017 3:13pm

anna080 wrote: »

I work with people, men and women, who are all perfectly lovely- nobody shows anybody any penises (penii?)

Consensual genital display at work is fun and a great way to run down the clock, no?

Only messing. But it got me thinking of playing doctor as a kid. I'm sure many on here did it. Maybe Louise missed out or something, and it was a contributing factor to her becoming a mentalist.

Wiki says :

Playing doctor is considered by most child psychologists to be a normal step in childhood development between the ages of approximately three and six years, so long as all parties are willing participants and relatively close in age. However, it can be a source of discomfort to some parents to discover their children are engaging in such an activity. Parenting professionals often advise parents to view such a discovery as an opportunity to calmly teach their children about the differences between the sexes, personal privacy, and respecting the privacy of other children.

Will I Am Not · 13-11-2017 4:11pm

PeterParker957 wrote: »

Is that really 204,000 retweets ???

Is it the same penis ???

I don’t know. Maybe they all watched The Crying Game?

Grayson · 13-11-2017 4:21pm

Prune Tracy wrote: »

They're not defending them - they're pretending it's as bad in the west. Yes I know that mennonites case and thankfully it's not typical of the west at all.

Did you read my post? I was replying to a post that said those cultures, cultures like saudi, were defended. Here's the phrase from the post i was replying to

Cultures that the Far-Left, and feminists, increasingly defend to the hilt btw.

And in the post I was replying to it said pockets of these cultures exist in the west but it's most likely to be imported religions. I was pointing out that there's plenty of these pockets that aren't imported religions. In fact I'd go so far as to say in the US in particular I'd say it's far more likely to be christians.

Grayson · 13-11-2017 4:26pm

The Fake Sheikh wrote: »

I don’t know. Maybe they all watched The Crying Game?

Nobody wanted to see that.

Omackeral · 13-11-2017 4:38pm

Grayson wrote: »

I still don't see how rape fantasy means wants to be oppressed. It's a fcuking horrific phease to use. Implying that certain women want to be raped.

It's part of rape culture.

The_Kew_Tour · 13-11-2017 5:01pm

Seems like we have Blindboy and Lon threads think they would actually make great couple.

They could sprout all the crap for hours and hours and nobody will question them or they won't debate.

Perfect match.

Will I Am Not · 13-11-2017 5:04pm

The_Kew_Tour wrote: »

Seems like we have Blindboy and Lon threads think they would actually make great couple.

They could sprout all the crap for hours and hours and nobody will question them or they won't debate.

Perfect match.

And she wouldn’t have to look at a man’s face when they’re riding. You could be on to something there.

PeterParker957 · 13-11-2017 5:08pm

The Fake Sheikh wrote: »

And she wouldn’t have to look at a man’s face when they’re riding. You could be on to something there.

But think of the children - literally!! Aaargh!!!!

timmy880 · 13-11-2017 5:08pm

Louise O'Neill needs to keep her profile out there. It's good for her book sales and will be good for whenever her next documentary on every man being a b@stard is.

Best to ignore. I've lost count of how many threads there are about her at this stage.

Ulysses Gaze · 13-11-2017 5:12pm

The_Kew_Tour wrote: »

Seems like we have Blindboy and Lon threads think they would actually make great couple.

They could sprout all the crap for hours and hours and nobody will question them or they won't debate.

Perfect match.

You could be on to something....

https://twitter.com/oneilllo/status/799763305111965697

Prune Tracy · 13-11-2017 5:16pm

anna080 wrote: »

I'm starting to think I'm living in a parallel universe where I get by day to day without anyone offending me. I get up, go to work, use public transport- nobody says anything inappropriate. I work with people, men and women, who are all perfectly lovely- nobody shows anybody any penises (penii?) I sometimes walk home, and pass many people in the street, nobody harasses me or pulls down their trousers and pants.
I mean, who are these people?
Maybe I'm just really ugly.

The #metoo thing is tricky because you don't want to be that asshole who seems to be downplaying the devastation of rape/sexual abuse/sexual assault.

The objection people have however is to the way sexual abuse and sexual assault are being redefined. I've had my ass and boob grabbed without invitation - but was it sexual assault or just someone being a drunken idiot? For me it was the latter. Ok people have different boundaries and that's personal, but a bit of stepping back is no harm - is it a matter for the guards? Is it perhaps trivialising what sexual assault/abuse is when there are people who have been put through unimaginable horror as opposed to being on the receiving end of someone being an asshole to them? (Which unfortunately happens constantly in all kinds of situations).

And this stuff of women dressing sexy and then complaining about men being interested in them sexually - why dress sexily so?! It's completely contradictory.

People object to men being defensive over the #metoo thing. But I can see why they are. It paints a picture of a world where women are continuously abused, where nearly all men are predatory. This is not reality. Then you've got the real extreme end of feminism telling men they should feel contrite about this. Wtf?! Of course they're going to object.

If they put themselves in men's shoes - we wouldn't accept being told that we women should all feel responsible because of some women being abusive to men. That's only something a misogynist would think.

The very same applies here. You know the way there is a handful of men who go on as if women can't get through the day without making a false rape claim? Total rubbish of course and will always get my defences up. This is what men are feeling in relation to the #metoo thing.

Grayson · 13-11-2017 6:08pm

Prune Tracy wrote: »

The #metoo thing is tricky because you don't want to be that asshole who seems to be downplaying the devastation of rape/sexual abuse/sexual assault.

The objection people have however is to the way sexual abuse and sexual assault are being redefined. I've had my ass and boob grabbed without invitation - but was it sexual assault or just someone being a drunken idiot? For me it was the latter. Ok people have different boundaries and that's personal, but a bit of stepping back is no harm - is it a matter for the guards? Is it perhaps trivialising what sexual assault/abuse is when there are people who have been put through unimaginable horror as opposed to being on the receiving end of someone being an asshole to them? (Which unfortunately happens constantly in all kinds of situations).

And this stuff of women dressing sexy and then complaining about men being interested in them sexually - why dress sexily so?! It's completely contradictory.

People object to men being defensive over the #metoo thing. But I can see why they are. It paints a picture of a world where women are continuously abused, where nearly all men are predatory. This is not reality. Then you've got the real extreme end of feminism telling men they should feel contrite about this. Wtf?! Of course they're going to object.

If they put themselves in men's shoes - we wouldn't accept being told that we women should all feel responsible because of some women being abusive to men. That's only something a misogynist would think.

The very same applies here. You know the way there is a handful of men who go on as if women can't get through the day without making a false rape claim? Total rubbish of course and will always get my defences up. This is what men are feeling in relation to the #metoo thing.

I think it's very rare anyone says all men are responsible.
As for a drunk guy grabbing you, is it assault or something less. Well, can't it be both. No-one is saying that it's the same as rape but if sexual assault was a spectrum it would be on that spectrum. And it shouldn't be acceptable no matter what gender or orientation does it.

It is more difficult for women though. If a woman grabbed my ass I could tell her to feck off. It might be awkward but i probably wouldn't be physically threatened. If you do it there's always the chance the guy could turn verbally or physically abusive and that puts a woman into a different situation where they are more likely to try and diffuse the situation rather than confront it.

I can understand why some men feel under siege when they see all the #metoo stuff. But the correct response to hearing this stuff isn't "But we're all not like that". The correct response is simply saying "that is unacceptable. Those guys are cnuts". To say "not all of us are like that" is making the situation about yourself rather than the victims and the perps.

Edited for some spelling/grammar. Yes I know there's probably more mistakes.

13-11-2017 6:12pm

The_Kew_Tour wrote: »

Seems like we have Blindboy and Lon threads think they would actually make great couple.

They could sprout all the crap for hours and hours and nobody will question them or they won't debate.

Perfect match.

Bressie was retweeting her constantly -and promoting her shtick (according to another forum who has a dislike of Lon) ... blindboy would have competition

Odhinn · 13-11-2017 6:25pm

...... woke bae.

It's frightening to see the speed at which shite falls out of somebodys gob on the other side of the atlantic and is regurgitated on this one.

13-11-2017 6:30pm

Odhinn wrote: »

...... woke bae.

It's frightening to see the speed at which shite falls out of somebodys gob on the other side of the atlantic and is regurgitated on this one.

Her other woke bae is Tupac who has a convictions for the stuff she champions against - I just love her hypocrisy

PeterParker957 · 13-11-2017 7:19pm

Do I want to know what a woke bae is ???

Outlaw Pete · 13-11-2017 7:26pm

Ouch.

https://twitter.com/oneilllo/status/928732712046907392
https://twitter.com/HelenaOToole4FM/status/929076309099245568

One eyed Jack · 13-11-2017 7:30pm

PeterParker957 wrote: »

Do I want to know what a woke bae is ???

Probably not

retro:electro · 13-11-2017 7:31pm

I think she's trolling. Surely nobody could be that much of a gobshlte?

arayess · 13-11-2017 7:31pm

Outlaw Pete wrote: »

Ouch.

https://twitter.com/oneilllo/status/928732712046907392
https://twitter.com/HelenaOToole4FM/status/929076309099245568

all hail helena O Toole !!

13-11-2017 7:37pm

anna080 wrote: »

I think she's trolling. Surely nobody could be that much of a gobshlte?

Knowing someone who has dealt with her - it’s not a troll act and she goes around with an air of self importance - looking at her twitter feed, I do believe this person

One eyed Jack · 13-11-2017 7:38pm

Grayson wrote: »

I can understand why some men feel under siege when they see all the #metoo stuff. But the correct response to hearing this stuff isn't "But we're all not like that". The correct response is simply saying "that is unacceptable. Those guys are cnuts". To say "not all of us are like that" is making the situation about yourself rather than the victims and the perps.

"The correct response"?

As determined by whom exactly?

To say "not all men are like that" is a direct response to the insinuation that all men are like that. It's not making anything any more about themselves, than the person making the insinuation about them in the first place.

Ulysses Gaze · 13-11-2017 7:39pm

Outlaw Pete wrote: »

Ouch.

https://twitter.com/oneilllo/status/928732712046907392
https://twitter.com/HelenaOToole4FM/status/929076309099245568

Is this the type of toxic, Third Wave feminist bolloxology that Blindboy thinks young Irish men need?

Yeah, I can see it really helping them...

WHIP IT! · 13-11-2017 8:22pm

I have two questions...
What's a Woke Bae?
and
What's a Blindboy?

Ulysses Gaze · 13-11-2017 8:24pm

WHIP IT! wrote: »

I have two questions...
What's a Woke Bae?
and
What's a Blindboy?

A woke bae is a boyfriend or (usually male) significant other who is progressive and enlightened in general.

Blindboy Boatclub (to give his full name) is a Limerick "Comedian" with a Spar Bag over his head that has somehow become the "voice of a generation" of young men.......in his own head anyway.

WHIP IT! · 13-11-2017 8:25pm

Ulysses Gaze wrote: »

A woke bae is a boyfriend or (usually male) significant other who is progressive and enlightened in general.

A Blindboy Boatclub (to give his full name) is a Limerick "Comedian" with a Spar Bag over his head that has somehow become the "voice of a generation" of young men.......in his own head anyway.

Ah sh*t - I knew that one!

Thanks UG

The J Stands for Jay · 13-11-2017 8:27pm

PeterParker957 wrote: »

Do I want to know what a woke bae is ???

Isn't bae Danish for sh1te?

Ulysses Gaze · 13-11-2017 8:32pm

McGaggs wrote: »

Isn't bae Danish for sh1te?

I thought it was a British defence contractor

PeterParker957 · 13-11-2017 8:35pm

McGaggs wrote: »

PeterParker957 wrote: »

Do I want to know what a woke bae is ???

Isn't bae Danish for sh1te?

Hopefully tell ya after we win tomorrow night!!!!

Ipso · 13-11-2017 8:37pm

Ulysses Gaze wrote: »

A woke bae is a boyfriend or (usually male) significant other who is progressive and enlightened in general.

Blindboy Boatclub (to give his full name) is a Limerick "Comedian" with a Spar Bag over his head that has somehow become the "voice of a generation" of young men.......in his own head anyway.

It's upon reading things like this that makes me proud not to be on twitter.

Sand · 13-11-2017 8:45pm

Ipso wrote: »

It's upon reading things like this that makes me proud not to be on twitter.

Its getting harder to escape the stupidity. These days, someone saying something unfortunate on Twitter can be the basis of an entire article or news segment.

As for LON, its difficult to say where the blame lies. She may be the one grunting and huffing over the bucket, but its everyone else tucking in with spoons.

Ipso · 13-11-2017 9:01pm

I'm hoping that as this nonsense increases and as they retreat deeper into their echo chamber, that these morons will start to have some kind of purity test to prove their ideology to each other and they will eventually eat each other when someone doesn't say the right thing.

Wibbs · 13-11-2017 9:08pm

Grayson wrote: »

I still don't see how rape fantasy means wants to be oppressed. It's a fcuking horrific phease to use. Implying that certain women want to be raped.

That is not what it means. FFS. *heads desk* Did you even read the link regarding rape fantasy? Clearly not. You just read "rape" and that's enough for you to go off all word pavlovian, no nuance, no understanding.

Ulysses Gaze wrote: »

You could be on to something....

https://twitter.com/oneilllo/status/799763305111965697

"Men need feminism". No, they don't. They need "feminism", a sociopolitical doctrine that lays the blame for all the bad in the world at the feet of men/patriarchy, like they need a hole in the head. It's akin to asking the Grand Mufti of Saudi Arabia to advise Catholics.

Prune Tracy · 13-11-2017 9:16pm

Grayson wrote: »

I think it's very rare anyone says all men are responsible.

It is rare but not that fringe either. It's appearing currently - for instance that thing with the 15 or 20 rules men should follow in order to show that they're not sexual predators. I mean, I'm a woman (and would probably be seen by some as a feminist) and that stuff is just downright astonishing to me, so I can only imagine what it's like to men.

As for a drunk guy grabbing you, is it assault or something less. Well, can't it be both. No-one is saying that it's the same as rape but if sexual assault was a spectrum it would be on that spectrum. And it shouldn't be acceptable no matter what gender or orientation does it.

It shouldn't be accepted. I didn't accept it and told them get their hands off me and do not do it again. But people can be arseholes unfortunately and we need to deal with them instead of wondering whether it's a police matter.

If any such man were verbally abusive to me, I would put money on other men nearby absolutely dashing to my defence. That is how I experience men for the most part.

I can understand why some men feel under siege when they see all the #metoo stuff. But the correct response to hearing this stuff isn't "But we're all not like that". The correct response is simply saying "that is unacceptable. Those guys are cnuts". To say "not all of us are like that" is making the situation about yourself rather than the victims and the perps.

Yeah but whenever I see this stuff about false rape allegations being through the roof, I get so annoyed because I wouldn't dream of doing such an horrific thing, neither would any woman I know... crikey, it's not even in our vocabulary.

It goes without saying that such women are c*nts.

Louise O'Neill on manned mission to Mars: "Why not go to Venus?" (MOD Warning post 1)

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