New 'Fast' bike

a_shed · 10-06-2021 2:02pm #1

I currently have a 4 year old £1000 bike (aluminium frame, carbon forks, ultegra groupset), which I like. Every now and then I think of upgrading.

I have a gift voucher for £1000 and so went along to my local bike shop on Saturday to see what was on offer. I was immediately steered towards a 4.5k thing of beauty, with the promise of being easily able to maintain speeds of 27+ mph with little effort (direct quote was 'you wonder why the pros are so fast? It's their bikes, once you hit 27/28mph it so easy to maintain'!).

When I said my budget was nowhere near 4.5k, I was shown a Giant TCR 3 Disc - 2.1k, full carbon, I must say it was a beautiful looking machine.

Anyway, my question is to those who have gone from a 1k bike to a 2k carbon, do you find a significant difference in average speed between the two?
(Please, no posts about losing weight and you'll go faster, or get fitter and you'll go faster..).

Is it worth the spend?

I tend to go on more leisurely spins of 100+k (have never raced and never will) but every so often I challenge myself to a 10 mile TT to boost the ego and try and beat my personal best, and going fast is fun, so a lighter and better equipped bike might be worth it.

Any thoughts would be appreciated.

Dcully · 10-06-2021 2:14pm

I didn't find much of a difference in speed to be honest but the carbon did mitigate humps and bumps a bit better but only really noticeable on long spins.

At the end of the day you still have to pedal it but a new bike is nice.
Lots to keep in mind geometry, components etc.

dahat · 10-06-2021 2:23pm

Giant TCR 3 Disc - 2.1k, full carbon - showing as Tiagra groupset for that price, christ above.

As Dcully said no matter what the bike your legs will be the same. Buy the best bike you can afford is the advice i'll give you.

fat bloke · 10-06-2021 2:24pm

In my experience, a good aero bike definitely increases your speed over an appropriate course. I mean aerodynamics is definitely a thing, its not a pseudo-science. But I'm talking about 0.5 or 1kph increases, not "instant pro, just add water".

. But neither can you ride roughshod over the importance of light weight and light weight and aero is an expensive combination. The one thing that's absolutely sure is that disc brakes will absolutely not make you any faster.

Anyway, it's always nice to go shopping. If it was me I'd buy an absolute superbike second hand and use my 1000 euro voucher for a fup-off set of wheels.

BailMeOut · 10-06-2021 2:26pm

for speed, it's never the bike and always the engine!

I'd spend the money on new wheels, tyres and a professional fitting!

Weepsie · 10-06-2021 2:28pm

I'd be finding a new bike shop if that's their advice. They're just trying to sell rather that rather than give real advice.

ednwireland · 10-06-2021 2:30pm

I like the whooshing sound my 50mm carbon wheels make.
am I faster err no age and weight are putting paid to that.
although my di2 synapse is a lot more comfortable then my 2010 focus cayo was (both carbon)

magicbastarder · 10-06-2021 2:40pm

what Weepsie said.

but this quote:

a_shed wrote: »

with the promise of being easily able to maintain speeds of 27+ mph with little effort (direct quote was 'you wonder why the pros are so fast? It's their bikes, once you hit 27/28mph it so easy to maintain'!).

did they say kph or mph?
either way, it's curious; it's easy enough with a modicum of fitness to maintain 27km/h, and is well below what pros would manage; but maintaining 27mph is a *whole* different ballgame. it's over 43km/h, and maintaining that on any bike is not easy.

a_shed · 10-06-2021 2:44pm

yip - miles per hour !!

Dexif · 10-06-2021 2:45pm

Probably depends also on whether you're spending alot of time in the hills. I ride a Ti bike which is fantastic but alot heavier than carbon. I recently had a loan of a carbon bike which was about 2kg lighter and was knocking about 5 - 10% off times on hill segments. Not much difference on the flat though as it wasn't aero...

a_shed · 10-06-2021 2:46pm

ednwireland wrote: »

I like the whooshing sound my 50mm carbon wheels make.
am I faster err no age and weight are putting paid to that.
although my di2 synapse is a lot more comfortable then my 2010 focus cayo was (both carbon)

Can I ask what wheels you have?

nicksnikita · 10-06-2021 3:30pm

BailMeOut wrote: »

for speed, it's never the bike and always the engine!

I'd spend the money on new wheels, tyres and a professional fitting!

100% agree.
Aluminium frame, Ultegra group, good wheels and tyres >>> carbon frame, basic wheels, Tiagra group.

fat bloke · 10-06-2021 3:46pm

a_shed wrote: »

I currently have a 4 year old £1000 bike (aluminium frame, carbon forks, ultegra groupset), which I like.

The ol bike inflation is pretty scary.

4 years later here's how much ultegra aluminium costs... :eek:

https://www.clarkesofcavan.ie/shop/cycling/cannondale-caad13-disc-ultegra-road-bike-2020/

ednwireland · 10-06-2021 4:21pm

a_shed wrote: »

Can I ask what wheels you have?

i broke a spoke on the fulcrum 6 db's that came with the bike but i had decided to do a summer upgrade for my birthday anyway, i was balking at the prices of a full carbon wheelset until i found a scratched set of bontrager aeolus 5 tlr for 750 euro on mantel.com (i couldnt find mark on them).

i just got some spokes for the fulcrum wheels (from italy) so will repair and hopefully use those in the winter

fat bloke wrote: »

The ol bike inflation is pretty scary.

4 years later here's how much ultegra aluminium costs... :eek:

i hear that my 2019 cannondale synapse di2 cost 2.8k at the start of 2020

Macy0161 · 10-06-2021 4:44pm

fat bloke wrote: »

The ol bike inflation is pretty scary.

4 years later here's how much ultegra aluminium costs... :eek:

CAAD's were always expensive for AL though? iirc from when I brought my TCR (early 2018) that they were ball park the same price as similar spec'd carbon. You can get carbon ultegra from the likes of Cube for less than that CAAD.

Anyway OP, i'd shop around a bit first before making any decision.

CantGetNoSleep · 10-06-2021 4:58pm

fat bloke wrote: »

The ol bike inflation is pretty scary.

4 years later here's how much ultegra aluminium costs... :eek:

https://www.clarkesofcavan.ie/shop/cycling/cannondale-caad13-disc-ultegra-road-bike-2020/

Crazy, I bought a 105 Synapse (carbon + hydraulic disk) for 1199 in 2018.

OP - I wouldn't spend that much without really considering what you want out of the upgrade. I have a bike with an rrp of 4899, and there is little difference to the much cheaper bike above

Dow99 · 10-06-2021 5:02pm

a_shed wrote: »

yip - miles per hour !!

Forget the bike,, You will need a peloton and an 7 man lead out train.
25mph = 40km/p. The pros dont even ride at those speeds on their own

Daroxtar · 10-06-2021 11:13pm

fat bloke wrote: »

The ol bike inflation is pretty scary.

4 years later here's how much ultegra aluminium costs... :eek:

https://www.clarkesofcavan.ie/shop/cycling/cannondale-caad13-disc-ultegra-road-bike-2020/

I bought my Wilier Cento 1SR (at the time only the Zero7 ranked higher in the Wilier hierarchy) full Ultegra for €2700.
Equivalent bike now is over €5k

dahat · 11-06-2021 6:40am

Bought a disc braked Merida Reacto (new model) this year for a shade over 3k. In these days I thought it was priced well for the spec plus the stock wheel set is way better than I espected.

The new Merida models are worth looking if you are buying.

this.lad · 11-06-2021 7:31am

Last August I went from a €650 Defy 5, to a 3.5k TCR Advanced.

Am I faster? Yes

Is it the bike? I don't know.

The defy is 8 speed, gearing is gappy, and maybe the components etc weren't high quality.

I find the new bike fits me better, even though I thought I was okay on the old one, when I get back on it now I feel really awkward.

I think part of the improvement is the fact that I trained indoors over the winter as the bike has a power meter. But I was already doing better last autumn.

Another part is definitely that I love the bike, and can't stay if it and really want to push it out. I rode it into work and home yesterday. I picked up 4 prs and a KOM, I have never had a KOM before.

I want to go out now where I was getting fed up on the other one.

So in summary, I don't think a bike, alone, will necessarily make you faster but if it gets you out more - go for it.

strmin · 11-06-2021 8:08am

fat bloke wrote: »

The ol bike inflation is pretty scary.

4 years later here's how much ultegra aluminium costs... :eek:

https://www.clarkesofcavan.ie/shop/cycling/cannondale-caad13-disc-ultegra-road-bike-2020/

It has disc brakes, so it's worth it. That's the best marketing trick bike industry has come up with in the very long time.
Few years ago everybody talked about light weight, now it's only disk brakes that matters.

byrnem31 · 11-06-2021 8:31am

I went from a €1k bike, alliminium cube nuroad with tiagra to a €2.25k giant-defy-advanced 2 2020 with 105. The difference is night and day.

The defy is better in every way. I would splash out a little bit more and aim for 105. The tiagra I had was 10 speed and didn't like the spread on the gears. With 11 on the 105, I find it much better to cycle with. Plus 105 is bombproof and is more than enough for anyone not racing.

The tcr is a more an aggressive riding position. Look at endurance bikes too, ie, defy, cube attain gtc sl etc.

Because I have a carbon bike which now has a set of hunt carbons wheels that looks the business, I love going out on it. I'm getting into the cycling big time now and I'm doing a 100klm ride tomorrow and next week.

So go for it, buy something decent now.

ciara1052 · 11-06-2021 11:12am

byrnem31 wrote: »

I went from a €1k bike, alliminium cube nuroad with tiagra to a €2.25k giant-defy-advanced 2 2020 with 105. The difference is night and day.

The defy is better in every way. I would splash out a little bit more and aim for 105. The tiagra I had was 10 speed and didn't like the spread on the gears. With 11 on the 105, I find it much better to cycle with. Plus 105 is bombproof and is more than enough for anyone not racing.

The tcr is a more an aggressive riding position. Look at endurance bikes too, ie, defy, cube attain gtc sl etc.

Because I have a carbon bike which now has a set of hunt carbons wheels that looks the business, I love going out on it. I'm getting into the cycling big time now and I'm doing a 100klm ride tomorrow and next week.

So go for it, buy something decent now.

Not the OP but I'm in the exact same position you were in (... being forced to upgrade due to issues with my old 1k 'entry level' bike). No interest in racing but I like going out for longer rides at the weekends. I've been trying to justify spending a bit more and getting a bike fit this time. Glad to hear it was worth it!

magicbastarder · 11-06-2021 12:03pm

ciara1052 wrote: »

(... being forced to upgrade due to issues with my old 1k 'entry level' bike)

repairs that are not economically justifiable? or sizing?

Plastik · 11-06-2021 12:15pm

Pinkbike did an article recently on 2021 vs 2011 mtb prices, which I thought was interesting and revealing. https://www.pinkbike.com/news/throwback-thursday-how-much-have-mountain-bike-prices-changed-in-the-past-10-years.html

It would be interesting to see a similar one done on road prices at some stage. Road is in a strange place for the past few years though. Standards have been changing so quickly that it's hard to do any sort of true comparison.

magicbastarder · 11-06-2021 12:17pm

GCN had a short bit about bike inflation on the GCN weekly show recently - it's as much a talking point to prompt people to respond though.

byrnem31 · 11-06-2021 12:18pm

ciara1052 wrote: »

Not the OP but I'm in the exact same position you were in (... being forced to upgrade due to issues with my old 1k 'entry level' bike). No interest in racing but I like going out for longer rides at the weekends. I've been trying to justify spending a bit more and getting a bike fit this time. Glad to hear it was worth it!

You will cycle more the better bike you have. That's my experience.

magicbastarder · 11-06-2021 12:25pm

regarding prices - in the january sales during the euro/punt changeover, i bought a bike in cycleways (assembled in house) for IRL£1000 (reduced from IRL£1400 i think).
terry dolan aluminium frame, 9 speed 105, gipiemme tecno 024 wheels.
according to the CSO inflation calculator, inflation in ireland has risen 30% since then, which would place that bike at just shy of €1700 now.
which still seems ballpark for a decent alu bike with 105?
just checked - a giant contend SL is €1,429.

G1032 · 11-06-2021 12:26pm

fat bloke wrote: »

The ol bike inflation is pretty scary.

4 years later here's how much ultegra aluminium costs... :eek:

https://www.clarkesofcavan.ie/shop/cycling/cannondale-caad13-disc-ultegra-road-bike-2020/

This is incredible

I bought a CAAD12 in Feb 2019. 105 was €1580. Ultegra would have been an extra €600

So a 2019 CAAD12 Ultegra was €2180 v €3542.40 for the CAAD13 today.
That's a 62% price increase in 2 years.
Insane

Don't know what I'm gonna do when I need a new bike. Looking more and more like I'll be buying a frame and transferring the groupset.

Large bottle small glass · 11-06-2021 12:48pm

G1032 wrote: »

Don't know what I'm gonna do when I need a new bike. Looking more and more like I'll be buying a frame and transferring the groupset.

It'll calm down again, it is not just bikes where price have gone mental.

Try buying machinery, vintage cars, new and used cars, property; prices are insane in many instances. I would assume (but I don't know) art and the likes also.

Shimano groupset shortages (sold at a higher price) and also a lower output for bike manufacturers means they have to more profit per bike to survive.

Macy0161 · 11-06-2021 2:35pm

There has to be an element of supply and demand, too? Also, BTW increase...

at1withmyself · 11-06-2021 2:53pm

magicbastarder wrote: »

regarding prices - in the january sales during the euro/punt changeover, i bought a bike in cycleways (assembled in house) for IRL£1000 (reduced from IRL£1400 i think).
terry dolan aluminium frame, 9 speed 105, gipiemme tecno 024 wheels.
according to the CSO inflation calculator, inflation in ireland has risen 30% since then, which would place that bike at just shy of €1700 now.
which still seems ballpark for a decent alu bike with 105?
just checked - a giant contend SL is €1,429.

That giant thought was under 1200 in 2020 model so inflation in last year is through the roof

dahat · 11-06-2021 3:05pm

Large bottle small glass wrote: »

It'll calm down again, it is not just bikes where price have gone mental.

Try buying machinery, vintage cars, new and used cars, property; prices are insane in many instances. I would assume (but I don't know) art and the likes also.

Shimano groupset shortages (sold at a higher price) and also a lower output for bike manufacturers means they have to more profit per bike to survive.

Brexit was a huge influence coming after the Covid crisis. My job deals with worldwide supply chain and you wouldn’t believe the shortages of the most random items.

Weepsie · 11-06-2021 3:37pm

Macy0161 wrote: »

There has to be an element of supply and demand, too? Also, BTW increase...

This really.

One brand has ample frames to supply shops, but they don't have groupsets. My lbs has asked for the frames as they have groupsets they can fit and they won't supply them as frame only

magicbastarder · 11-06-2021 3:48pm

at1withmyself wrote: »

That giant thought was under 1200 in 2020 model so inflation in last year is through the roof

under €1200 last year is cheaper than the pre-sale price i'd have paid for mine in 2002 - without even adjusting for inflation.
granted, there are some differences in spec level, but the price difference doesn't seem to be outrageous.

ciara1052 · 11-06-2021 11:07pm

magicbastarder wrote: »

repairs that are not economically justifiable? or sizing?

I brought it to two shops who told me it wouldn't be worth repairing (I will say I've got 4/5 years of cycling out of it. I went in with one issue and was told I'd also have to replace a load of other components too. I think it was a case of it costing >400e all together and the bike isn't worth that anymore?).

magicbastarder · 11-06-2021 11:28pm

€400 is a lot to spend on a bike. what did they say needed replacing?

Wildly Boaring · 11-06-2021 11:28pm

ciara1052 wrote: »

I brought it to two shops who told me it wouldn't be worth repairing (I will say I've got 4/5 years of cycling out of it. I went in with one issue and was told I'd also have to replace a load of other components too. I think it was a case of it costing >400e all together and the bike isn't worth that anymore?).

Is it broken?
The age is immaterial.
What's wrong with it?

Also €400 to sort out a bike might seem a lot on a cheaper bike. But the bike should be sorted after the spend. Might do another 5 years with minimal outlay

11-06-2021 11:37pm

400???? That would buy a full group set replacement shifters, cranks, derailleurs and all for a Claris/Sora level bike plus labour????????

https://www.ribblecycles.co.uk/shimano-sora-3000-9-speed-double-groupset/ No way all that needs replacing. You'd be getting money's worth for 400 if it did.

EDIT: Maybe the rims are complete toast which is a cost in itself that might make the sums add up.

ciara1052 · 12-06-2021 1:58pm

Wildly Boaring wrote: »

Is it broken?
The age is immaterial.
What's wrong with it?

Also €400 to sort out a bike might seem a lot on a cheaper bike. But the bike should be sorted after the spend. Might do another 5 years with minimal outlay

magicbastarder wrote: »

€400 is a lot to spend on a bike. what did they say needed replacing?

Deleted User wrote: »

400???? That would buy a full group set replacement shifters, cranks, derailleurs and all for a Claris/Sora level bike plus labour????????

https://www.ribblecycles.co.uk/shimano-sora-3000-9-speed-double-groupset/ No way all that needs replacing. You'd be getting money's worth for 400 if it did.

EDIT: Maybe the rims are complete toast which is a cost in itself that might make the sums add up.

I'm not mechanically minded (so apologies if I'm not referring to the correct parts!) but the rear bearing is completely gone (it went mid cycle around 2 months ago - so when the chain rotates the tyre no longer turns?) and when I brought it in they also said I'd need a new front tyre too (the spokes have become a little bit rusty...don't know if that in itself is an issue?), new chain and also that the groupset would need to be replaced (maybe not immediately but very soon by the sounds of it?).

I went to a second shop who gave me a similar cost estimate so didn't really question the work required. It does seem like now is not the time to be getting a new bike (seems like stock is quite low coming into summer) so maybe it is worth getting the repairs done?

fat bloke · 12-06-2021 2:11pm

New wheels, tyres, tubes chain and cassette and a good service with new cables etc. Sure that could easily add up to 400 quid. No need for it to mean writing the bike off though. These are all parts that wear and wear out and can and should be replaced.

byrnem31 · 12-06-2021 3:02pm

Stick another 400 to your repair money and don't bother getting it repaired. Get something like that.

The chan chan man · 12-06-2021 3:05pm

The amount of aul lads I see out on expensive carbon bikes to save half a kg....and the 4 stone belly hanging out of the lycra. Save the money on an expensive frame if you’re not in top shape! LOL

at1withmyself · 12-06-2021 3:05pm

byrnem31 wrote: »

Stick another 400 to your repair money and don't bother getting it repaired. Get something like that.

Eh, that's 1100 no? that would be 700 on top of the 400€ repairs?

Also your back in the same boat again of a bike needing parts to be replaced as its second hand???

at1withmyself · 12-06-2021 3:08pm

The chan chan man wrote: »

The amount of aul lads I see out on expensive carbon bikes to save half a kg....and the 4 stone belly hanging out of the lycra. Save the money on an expensive frame if you’re not in top shape! LOL

I can never understand these type of posts, why can't people just enjoy things and if someone carrying a bit of weight wants to cycle a nice bike then why the LOL's

Just go out and enjoy the ride, never mind what other people cycle!

DaveyDave · 12-06-2021 3:41pm

The chan chan man wrote: »

The amount of aul lads I see out on expensive carbon bikes to save half a kg....and the 4 stone belly hanging out of the lycra. Save the money on an expensive frame if you’re not in top shape! LOL

It's still an upgrade regardless of rider weight though. Just because the rider is overweight doesn't mean there isn't an advantage with a carbon frame, better components etc.

rolling boh · 12-06-2021 4:09pm

The chan chan man wrote: »

The amount of aul lads I see out on expensive carbon bikes to save half a kg....and the 4 stone belly hanging out of the lycra. Save the money on an expensive frame if you’re not in top shape! LOL

See no harm in guys cycling even if they are a bit overweight lots of people have a few grand to spend on a hobby sure a basic enough bike would be enough for a lot of guys out cycling but they have the money so fair play if they want to splash out .

byrnem31 · 12-06-2021 7:46pm

at1withmyself wrote: »

Eh, that's 1100 no? that would be 700 on top of the 400€ repairs?

Also your back in the same boat again of a bike needing parts to be replaced as its second hand???

Offer him 800 and see what he says. The bike is meant to be in good nick so might not need anything for a while.

07Lapierre · 12-06-2021 7:52pm

rolling boh wrote: »

See no harm in guys cycling even if they are a bit overweight lots of people have a few grand to spend on a hobby sure a basic enough bike would be enough for a lot of guys out cycling but they have the money so fair play if they want to splash out .

In my view it’s a good thing. Better than buying a cheap BSO, not being comfortable on it, not using it and eventually not doing anything.

magicbastarder · 12-06-2021 9:24pm

it's a strawman to suggest that overweight guys are buying light bikes because they need the extra 0.5kg weight saving. if someone is 4 stone overweight, they know they're 4 stone overweight but they just went out and bought themselves a nice bike.
my brother in law could have bought a nice bike for the price of the headlights he paid for, for his car. which he didn't *need*, he just wanted nicer headlights.

Seth Brundle · 12-06-2021 11:51pm

The chan chan man wrote: »

The amount of aul lads I see out on expensive carbon bikes to save half a kg....and the 4 stone belly hanging out of the lycra. Save the money on an expensive frame if you’re not in top shape! LOL

So fu**ing what! It's their money to spend on whatever they want.
Fat shaming an overweight person who is out exercising is a prickish thing to do to be honest!

New 'Fast' bike

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