Logitech Harmony Remotes RIP

bk · 11-04-2021 12:03pm #1

Looks like Logitech are going to stop making and selling Logitech Harmony remotes! They say they will continue to support existing remotes:

https://www.theverge.com/2021/4/10/22377015/logitech-discontinues-harmony-universal-remotes

I'll admit that while I still have mine, I've mostly stopped using it in the past year. In the past year I've been able to upgrade my entire AV setup and as a result greatly simplified my setup, so didn't really need it any more.

LG OLED TV with Webos, which works extremely well for all the streaming services, so no need for separate streaming sticks. Also has Freesat and Saorview tuners built-in, so that eliminated the need for a separate satellite set top box.

Basically just have the Switch and PS5 plugged into the TV, but you mostly use a game controller to use those anyway and they are CEC controlled.

For audio I switched to a high end Dolby Atmos soundbar, which use eARC so it automatically works with the TV with no fiddling needed.

Basically everything works easily with just the LG remote now.

I do miss using the Harmony Elite remote. The build quality, how it fits your hands and positioning of the buttons is so much better then the LG, and I totally miss the light up buttons which is great when watching the TV with lights off and the buttons to directly control smart deives and lights from the remote.

But it only works with IR with the LG TV, while the LG remote uses bluetooth, which is a lot more reliable. A real pity that they didn't allow Harmony to use bluetooth too to connect to the LG TV.

I suppose it is good that things have become easier to control without the need of a third party remote. That CEC and bluetooth remotes are becoming mainstream and replacing janky IR. But sad to see Harmony come to an end.

11-04-2021 12:18pm

I have 2 in different rooms and use them daily. I will always have one while I have a Shield as we use that for everything, IPTV, Emby, Netflix, Amazon, YouTube and all the various types of gaming etc. In the kitchen I have a Mibox doing the same with my downgraded 50' LG non smart TV.

11-04-2021 12:20pm

Mine was never any use and couldn’t do a few of things I bought it for. It’s still set up beside the telly but haven’t picked it up in months.

bk · 11-04-2021 12:27pm

Deleted User wrote: »

I have 2 in different rooms and use them daily. I will always have one while I have a Shield as we use that for everything, IPTV, Emby, Netflix, Amazon, YouTube and all the various types of gaming etc. In the kitchen I have a Mibox doing the same with my downgraded 50' LG non smart TV.

Yes, the shield is great, but I have to admit I've stopped using it too! The LG TV can run all those apps too, except for gaming, but then you are into using the game controller anyway.

I had the Shield plugged into the TV for a few months, but didn't use it!

11-04-2021 12:46pm

Same here. As good as it was, my Shield went to the attic when I got my Samsung TV as it has all the apps I use on it. The Shield was the main reason I bought the Harmony in the first place as official Nvidia remotes were like gold dust.
If I ever set up a second TV I’ll set them up again, though it’ll probably be as handy buy a smart TV in the first place.

11-04-2021 12:50pm

bk wrote: »

Yes, the shield is great, but I have to admit I've stopped using it too! The LG TV can run all those apps too, except for gaming, but then you are into using the game controller anyway.

I had the Shield plugged into the TV for a few months, but didn't use it!

I have an Emby server, some of the uncompressed 4k and 1080p content is much higher bitrate that smart TVs can handle where the Shield handles them fine. Other than that I'd have used the Samsung UI and the Emby app

I also have an older surround receiver with IR, this needs the harmony or I'm using its remote. I don't use the TV speakers at all. I've had CEC turned off on all my devices for years to suit harmony so I have no idea how good it is these days.

bk · 11-04-2021 1:23pm

Deleted User wrote: »

I have an Emby server, some of the uncompressed 4k and 1080p content is much higher bitrate that smart TVs can handle where the Shield handles them fine. Other than that I'd have used the Samsung UI and the Emby app

Yep, obviously can differ from TV to TV, new, high end LG's can handle 4k uncompressed UHD Blurays with no issues at all. Though I use Plex rather then Emby, but I'd assume much the same.

It is exactly the reason I kept the shield plugged in for a few months, I thought I might hit a couple of high bitrate streams that wouldn't work on the TV, but hit non, all worked perfectly, so took it off.

Though I'd point out that the Shield works fine controlled by CEC from the LG remote, I'd assume the Sammy would be the same.

Deleted User wrote: »

I also have an older surround receiver with IR, this needs the harmony or I'm using its remote. I don't use the TV speakers at all. I've had CEC turned off on all my devices for years to suit harmony so I have no idea how good it is these days.

This I think is the key. It is the AV setup. There were a few months between buying the LG TV and buying the new soundbar when I was using an older AV receiver and 5.1 speakers. During that time Harmony was a most have to control the AV. It was when I went to the eARC soundbar that the Harmony was no longer needed. Using eARC it works just like using the TV's inbuilt speakers, in terms of control, obviously way better sound.

So I think Harmony is still a most if you have an older TV or AV receiver, but once you upgrade to new gear that well supports CEC and eARC, it becomes less necessary.

I just wish you could buy a premium version of the LG remote, with better button layout, light up buttons, etc.

degsie · 11-04-2021 2:07pm

Use both my harmony touch and harmony companion with hub daily. Would be lost without them tbh.

Basq · 11-04-2021 2:13pm

Yeah, HDMI-CEC has somewhat dampened the appetite for Harmony remotes IMO.

Had Harmony One years ago and it never really grabbed me..

dam099 · 11-04-2021 2:41pm

HDMI-CEC is very hit and miss though, I have a Sony Amp and LG OLED and they do not play well together at all when HDMI-CEC is on, I then have to use an Apple TV to get Atmos on Netflix because the EARC requires CEC to be on (in theory EARC can supposedly work without CEC but that's not how Sony have implemented).

Also while its possible to use built in Apps to watch streaming services, chances are support for the Apps may be end of life well before your TV is, so a streaming stick may be required down the line to continue using them on your TV.

I also dont think a TV remote using CEC would give me the control over the Amp I need such as changing sound fields between regular TV, movie watching and music listening.

Will definitely miss Harmony whenever mine finally gives up the ghost if I cant replace it.

Bluefoam · 11-04-2021 2:58pm

Mine is central to my living room setup... Makes my TV, shield, hue lights and speaker system all work together...

I may even but a second remote as a backup. I'd be devastated if anything happened to it...

ongarite · 11-04-2021 3:03pm

Has been relegated to very niche market who's fans are very vocal based on the uproar they are making online.

Reality is that Smart TVs, streaming devices and sound bars have killed off these devices for all but the niche market.

99.9% of TV consumers don't have an AV receiver or 5/7.1 surround sound with 6 devices connected to it, to make use of these remotes.

HDMI-CEC is "good enough" for the average user.

Clareman · 11-04-2021 6:12pm

I had a 1 for all remote for years, then got a "smart" one where you pointed the IR to the receiver to program it, then thanks to Samsung having IR blasters in their phones I used Peel for years, then I had VU+ boxes that had remotes that could control a few things, once I went down the Shield route though that was it, in fact I went looking for the TV remote a while ago and couldn't find it. As a backup I've the Android remote app on my phone and table, that's handy for when I lose the remote for the Google TV, which happens quite a lot actually

Sleeper12 · 11-04-2021 7:05pm

I have a Harmony Elite remote with hub. I used it every day until I bought a Firecube. The cube remote controls my amp, tv and any streaming app. I haven't picked up the Harmony remote since. I still find the harmony hub very useful. It's an important part of my smart home setup

12-04-2021 10:45am

I've been a massive fan of them for 10+ years.
I just hope they keep the website up or offer it offline.

I actually need mine, good example is my switch from tv to projector scene.
one button , turns off the TV, drops the motorized screen & motorized projector, switches on the projector and turns the AVR to video output 2 and turns off the lights!

Without it I would need 6 remotes to do it.

Bluefoam · 12-04-2021 11:09am

Maybe people haven't been using the full feature set, but the big advantage for me is that when I turn on the TV/Shield, that the lights come on at the same time and scene is set... Can't imaginhe having to use a light switch again...

bk · 12-04-2021 11:50am

Bluefoam wrote: »

Maybe people haven't been using the full feature set, but the big advantage for me is that when I turn on the TV/Shield, that the lights come on at the same time and scene is set... Can't imaginhe having to use a light switch again...

Yep, I use to do similar with the Harmony remote.

Now I have voice routines for Google Home and Alexa to do the same.

"Alexa, TV time", turns off all lights, turns on strip behind TV, turns off the display on Alexa, etc.

LG remote has a mic and both Alexa and Google Home built in. Sammy soundbar has Alexa built in. Plus I've got Google Home in the room, LOL too many devices with it built in now!!

Can also trigger a Siri shortcut from iphone or Apple watch.

It is however one more button action then using Harmony and I did prefer the physicalness of Harmony routines, I prefer not to use voice *

On the upside GH/Alexa support far more devices then Harmony does.

* Actually thinking of getting a smart button to stick on the coffee table to trigger the routine.

theteal · 12-04-2021 12:27pm

Only yesterday I was thinking that I may be in the market for a new one as the current one has taken a few too many falls and sometimes I can feel the insides move about with a little shake. I think it's the Harmony One - IR based, no base station. It still works great and I've no plan to change the setup. I can't fathom getting the 4 dedicated remotes (well 3, xbox controller still needed for games) out of storage.

Our TV is excellent but old by current smart standards (admittedly, Pana's smart interface is old before you turn it on) so the xbox handles Now, Disney and physical disks which the Harmony does easily and means the wife does not need to go near the xbox controller which quite frankly is a bonus for all of us.

John mac · 12-04-2021 7:44pm

couldnt be without mine, how would i change from netflix on the fire tv to the satellite receiver , and a particular channel ,.
..needs 3 remotes at present , (fire tv, sat box and receiver amp)
one click and everything changes , including lights.
how will google home control the reciever ,? or the tviar box for that matter .
would need to put a smart plug on the tv , (its an old panny plasma , still great pic )
having the tvstation picons on the remote is handy too so dont need to remember channel numbers.
i do like being able to say to my watch "hey google turn on the tv"

so could it be done without the harmony ?

Sleeper12 · 12-04-2021 7:50pm

John mac wrote:

so could it be done without the harmony ?

Alexa or Google Assistant might be able do it. The Harmony hub definitely makes it easy

John mac · 12-04-2021 7:54pm

Sleeper12 wrote: »

Alexa or Google Assistant might be able do it. The Harmony hub definitely makes it easy

how would it be made to control my Yamaha amp for instance.?

12-04-2021 7:54pm

It seems the general consensus is that people who have brand new hardware and only use one source on their TV are happy with CEC. This probably accounts for 99% of the market. Whereas anyone with a mix of older and new hardware using several sources needs a harmony.

Sleeper12 · 12-04-2021 8:39pm

John mac wrote:

how would it be made to control my Yamaha amp for instance.?

If you have the harmony hub it can be connected to Alexa or Google Assistant. You can then control all of the devices by voice. Very little need for any remote control then. Harmony hub controls anything with a remote. I can open & close my Velux blinds though the hub and with my voice

John mac · 12-04-2021 9:24pm

Sleeper12 wrote: »

If you have the harmony hub it can be connected to Alexa or Google Assistant. You can then control all of the devices by voice. Very little need for any remote control then. Harmony hub controls anything with a remote. I can open & close my Velux blinds though the hub and with my voice

yea thats how i do it . (still need the harmony though.. )

theteal · 13-04-2021 10:06am

Can I run a test case by ye, if you'd be so kind to indulge me?

Current setup:
Panasonic DX902 - "old" TV but still one of the best LCDs ever sold so it's going nowhere
Virgin Media box - latest UK model
JBL 9.1 sound bar - connected via ARC to TV
Xbox One X - connected to HDMI in of soundbar

Right now, Harmony routines are:
Watch TV - TV on set to HDMI 1, VM box on, JBL on set to TV
Netflix - TV on set to Netflix (native app), JBL on set to TV
Xbox - TV on set to HMDI 2, JBL on set to HDMI, Xbox on (as mentioned this covers disks, Now, Disney, Prime etc)

With no immediate plans to change any of this kit, what options would work if Harmony was no more?

13-04-2021 10:11am

theteal wrote: »

Can I run a test case by ye, if you'd be so kind to indulge me?

Current setup:
Panasonic DX902 - "old" TV but still one of the best LCDs ever sold so it's going nowhere
Virgin Media box - latest UK model
JBL 9.1 sound bar - connected via ARC to TV
Xbox One X - connected to HDMI in of soundbar

Right now, Harmony routines are:
Watch TV - TV on set to HDMI 1, VM box on, JBL on set to TV
Netflix - TV on set to Netflix (native app), JBL on set to TV
Xbox - TV on set to HMDI 2, JBL on set to HDMI, Xbox on (as mentioned this covers disks, Now, Disney, Prime etc)

With no immediate plans to change any of this kit, what options would work if Harmony was no more?

It will probably just keep working unchanged but if we lose the Logitech database we will lose the chance of new devices being added. This is the fear.

bk · 13-04-2021 2:44pm

Deleted User wrote: »

It seems the general consensus is that people who have brand new hardware and only use one source on their TV are happy with CEC. This probably accounts for 99% of the market. Whereas anyone with a mix of older and new hardware using several sources needs a harmony.

Yes, I think the real key is eARC.

Previously it was AV/soundbars that really complicated things IME, you needed multiple remotes to switch device, select source, etc. In my experience eARC completely fixes this and makes separate AV/soundbars just work without any need for fiddling.

eARC doesn't actually use CEC, it uses it's own control protocol that seems to be very reliable.

The idea is rather then have multiple devices plugged into an AV, you have them all (game console, satellite box, shield tv, etc.) plugged into the TV, controlled by CEC and then audio is pushed out to the AV/soundbar over eARC. The AV/Soundbar automatically turns on when the TV does and automatically switches to the correct source, etc.

It all just works for the most part. You just use the source button on the TV remote to switch between connected devices and use CEC to navigate them.

In addition if your TV supports Alexa/Google then you can use those via voice to switch device inputs on the TV and even build up routines that turn off lights, etc.

Of course I'm not suggesting that anyone go run out and immediately replace their TV and AV system. Hopefully Harmony continues to work for now.

But when it does come time to upgrade, I do highly recommend making sure that any new TV or AV/Soundbar you buy supports eARC. And maybe also Alexa/GH.

theteal wrote:

With no immediate plans to change any of this kit, what options would work if Harmony was no more?

As Badly fukt says, hopefully Harmony continues to work for years until you do upgrade the TV.

Another option might be the Fire TV cube, which has similar IR blaster functionality. And there is a Broadlink IR device for DIY setups.

I note you have a JBL 9.1 sound bar, that already supports eARC, when you come to upgrade your TV, make sure to get one with eARC too.

BTW your current setup sounds a bit confusing. Why is the Xbox connected to the soundbar rather then to the TV?

If instead you connect both the Xbox and Virgin Media box directly to the TV, you could then use your TV remote to control both (need to turn CEC on both of them).

So:
HDMI 1 - VM Box
HDMI 2 - eARC to JBL soundbar
HDMI 3 - Xbox

Select source 1 to watch TV (VM box), select source 3 to watch xbox, use to TV built in Netflix app. In all cases the JBL soundbar should switch on and output the audio over ARC from the VM box/Xbox.

Obviously you don't need to do that now if you are happy with the Harmony. But it would definitely be an easy alternative if you do.

sphinxicus · 13-04-2021 2:52pm

Deleted User wrote: »

It seems the general consensus is that people who have brand new hardware and only use one source on their TV are happy with CEC. This probably accounts for 99% of the market. Whereas anyone with a mix of older and new hardware using several sources needs a harmony.

I definately fall into the "older hardware". I have the Harmony Elite with the hub. My sky box/dvd player/raspberry Pi running Plex all plug into an old Yamaha AV amp, all located in a different room along with the hub, which sends to my (non-smart) TV via HDMI over cat6 cables into another room. One press of the harmony remote and, for example, sky box turns on, tv turns on, AV amp turns on and switches to correct input. Going back to multiple remotes again would be a disaster.

As far as I'm aware, if they disable the harmony "cloud" the remote should still work offline but you wouldn't be able to make any configuration changes.

Clareman · 13-04-2021 3:21pm

I can see there always being a market for something like this but the fact that everything is getting easier and easier means the market is getting smaller and smaller. We take it for granted a bit there's so much in the TVs now but not too long ago having Netflix, Saroview, FreeSat and (maybe) internet browser would have been 3 or 4 separate boxes, now it's built in so not as complicated at all. Add to this the higher availability of Bluetooth connection makes everything easier still, I couldn't tell you the last time I used my soundbar but I've my shield connected to my Google Max and headset if I do want something "extra"

theteal · 13-04-2021 4:05pm

bk wrote: »

As Badly fukt says, hopefully Harmony continues to work for years until you do upgrade the TV.

Another option might be the Fire TV cube, which has similar IR blaster functionality. And there is a Broadlink IR device for DIY setups.

Not ruled out Cube but not mad for voice command devices. Loved the Kinect, feels like I'd be doing the dirty.

bk wrote: »

I note you have a JBL 9.1 sound bar, that already supports eARC, when you come to upgrade your TV, make sure to get one with eARC too.

Yup, fully aware. TV is too good to dump just for eARC though.

bk wrote: »

BTW your current setup sounds a bit confusing. Why is the Xbox connected to the soundbar rather then to the TV?

Simple answer, Atmos. TV won't pass it, the Xbox will. I can live without it for standard TV but I can make use of it for a lot of media going via the Xbox (i forgot to mention Plex in my list in previous post). I've even considered connecting the Virgin box to the HDMI-in of the xbox to see how that works in a post-kinect world, maybe when I get a bit of quiet time to geek around.

dam099 · 13-04-2021 4:45pm

theteal wrote: »

Simple answer, Atmos. TV won't pass it, the Xbox will. I can live without it for standard TV but I can make use of it for a lot of media going via the Xbox (i forgot to mention Plex in my list in previous post).

I have a similar issue, TV wont pass Atmos to my AVR (well it will do DD+ Atmos but only if I turn on CEC which causes havoc in other ways).

Logitech Harmony Remotes RIP

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