Trevor Deely case - new witness

Omackeral · 11-12-2019 3:39pm

tdf7187 wrote: »

surely it is possible that he also fell into the canal, or has that been ruled out?

Canals don't flow as such. He'd have bobbed up or been seen. They're shallow bodies of water. The basin, granted, is larger in area but it would've turned up something by now.

I seem to remember one of the top cops at the time saying he'd love to drain Grand Canal Basin and see what it exposes.

DmanDmythDledge · 11-12-2019 3:44pm

Fiftyfilthy wrote: »

I was replying to the post where the poster mentioned that the 24hr spar on Baggot st was further away than the one on bath avenue

I was just saying, that it was seconds away

Always a possibility the spar on bath avenue stocked something that wasn’t in the Baggot st shop

Maybe felt safer at that particular moment taking that route, more cars, people , residential lights etc

Hard to know

I never said it was further away, my point was going to the one on Upper Baggot St (the one beside Larry Murphy's is the one I thought other posters referred to) on his way home would have added more to the journey than going to the one on Bath Avenue. Google maps confirms this.

tdf7187 · 11-12-2019 3:56pm

Omackeral wrote: »

Canals don't flow as such. He'd have bobbed up or been seen. They're shallow bodies of water. The basin, granted, is larger in area but it would've turned up something by now.

I seem to remember one of the top cops at the time saying he'd love to drain Grand Canal Basin and see what it exposes.

Yes, understood, that makes sense.

smelly sock · 11-12-2019 3:57pm

Omackeral wrote: »

Canals don't flow as such. He'd have bobbed up or been seen. They're shallow bodies of water. The basin, granted, is larger in area but it would've turned up something by now.

I seem to remember one of the top cops at the time saying he'd love to drain Grand Canal Basin and see what it exposes.

They can't drain the basin though which in itself means that it can't be fully ruled out. You'd imagine AGS divers would have found something at the time but limited visibility anything is possible. The Dodder was in a state of flood at the time but again you'd be assuming he made it that far.

I think the theory of him engaging with on street criminals and their activity which turned wrong is more probable.

Fiftyfilthy · 11-12-2019 3:58pm

DmanDmythDledge wrote: »

I never said it was further away, my point was going to the one on Upper Baggot St (the one beside Larry Murphy's is the one I thought other posters referred to) on his way home would have added more to the journey than going to the one on Bath Avenue. Google maps confirms this.

You actually did say that.

Directly behind him in the cctv footage is the petrol station , the spar on Baggot st is just metres away

tdf7187 · 11-12-2019 3:58pm

DmanDmythDledge wrote: »

I never said it was further away, my point was going to the one on Upper Baggot St (the one beside Larry Murphy's is the one I thought other posters referred to) on his way home would have added more to the journey than going to the one on Bath Avenue. Google maps confirms this.

Ah ok. I think that one is on Lr Baggot St and was never 24 hour as far as I recall, the one we're thinking of is actually south of the canal, near the FAS building towards the Waterloo Rd junction with Baggot St. In any case he didn't go to either.

TwoMonthsOff · 11-12-2019 4:22pm

I thought I remember reading the locks were closed on the canal at that time, I could be wrong.

tdf7187 · 11-12-2019 4:34pm

sugarman wrote: »

it could have just been his preferred way to walk or perhaps not being from Dublin and new to the area, its just the way he got familiar with.

Yes that's my own view. He had only moved to Dublin the year before IIRC.

tdf7187 · 11-12-2019 4:36pm

sugarman wrote: »

Not sure where youre getting 17 and 12 mins from but from using the addresses

Milanos/BOI "1-2 Haddington Rd, Dublin, D04 XN32"

...and his exact appartment complex address

"Renoir, St James Court, Serpentine Avenue, Ballsbridge, Dublin 4"

Google estimates it to be 24 mins and 26 mins walk.

So only a 2 minute difference.

You would never notice 2 minutes in a walk unless you timed yourself. This was in 2000 before you could easily check it on google maps.. it could have just been his preferred way to walk or perhaps not being from Dublin and new to the area, its just the way he got familiar with.

A particularly fast walker might do it in 12 or 17, I suspect 24 or 26 is closer to average.

But yes I agree as regards him not being from Dublin maybe it was just the route he was familar with, IIRC he had only moved to the Big Smoke the year.

Not much in the distances either way.

MrAbyss · 11-12-2019 4:45pm

Not for a minute have I ever believed this was a casual - 'wrong time wrong place murder - that is just not what happens. Gangland killers are not impulsive types.

Something else happened. Who knows.

11-12-2019 4:59pm

I don’t know that part of the city well enough to comment too much but it certainly doesn’t look like the most direct route to his house. Now, he could have easily been going the shop or chipper or something. Or perhaps he just liked that way for whatever reason.

We’ll never know for sure why he was going that way.

I remember an article from years back saying Garda had a theory that he was going to meet a man and a woman.

Chance encounter seems like their position now.

It’s such a frustrating case. We have the timeline down a tee. Assuming he was going home, he couldn’t have been much more than 20 mins away.

So something happened somewhere in that area between 4:14 and say 4:45.

Assetbacked · 11-12-2019 5:06pm

sugarman wrote: »

Not sure where youre getting 17 and 12 mins from but from using the addresses

Milanos/BOI "1-2 Haddington Rd, Dublin, D04 XN32"

...and his exact appartment complex address

"Renoir, St James Court, Serpentine Avenue, Ballsbridge, Dublin 4"

Google estimates it to be 24 mins and 26 mins walk.

So only a 2 minute difference.

You would never notice 2 minutes in a walk unless you timed yourself. This was in 2000 before you could easily check it on google maps.. it could have just been his preferred way to walk or perhaps not being from Dublin and new to the area, its just the way he got familiar with.

I only measured to the Dodder bridge in Ballsbridge. Looking at his actual address, you're right, it is only a two minute difference and the fact he walked down Haddington Road wouldn't be weird at all.

TheW1zard · 11-12-2019 5:11pm

Its a good job the guards don't monitor this thread looking for breakthroughs!

Alliance123 · 11-12-2019 5:17pm

TheW1zard wrote: »

Its a good job the guards don't monitor this thread looking for breakthroughs!

Well they've had 19 yrs of failure so far so cant be much worse.

TheW1zard · 11-12-2019 5:26pm

Alliance123 wrote: »

Well they've had 19 yrs of failure so far so cant be much worse.

People are unsolving stuff here :pac:

dubstarr · 11-12-2019 5:50pm

TheW1zard wrote: »

Its a good job the guards don't monitor this thread looking for breakthroughs!

Well to be fair,ordinary people have solved murders and disappearances before,

TheW1zard · 11-12-2019 6:04pm

dubstarr wrote: »

Well to be fair,ordinary people have solved murders and disappearances before,

I agree

Mwengwe · 11-12-2019 6:10pm

sugarman wrote: »

Not sure where youre getting 17 and 12 mins from but from using the addresses

Milanos/BOI "1-2 Haddington Rd, Dublin, D04 XN32"

...and his exact appartment complex address

"Renoir, St James Court, Serpentine Avenue, Ballsbridge, Dublin 4"

Google estimates it to be 24 mins and 26 mins walk.

So only a 2 minute difference.

You would never notice 2 minutes in a walk unless you timed yourself. This was in 2000 before you could easily check it on google maps.. it could have just been his preferred way to walk or perhaps not being from Dublin and new to the area, its just the way he got familiar with.

It's got to be the most boring, non-significant thing that people keep bringing up in this thread.

Souf · 11-12-2019 6:15pm

He’s not going directly home. Leaving aside that your going up a quieter more complicated route, a couple of minutes difference isn’t nothing. Just walk beside someone and stop, letting them off for 3min.

DmanDmythDledge · 11-12-2019 6:40pm

Fiftyfilthy wrote: »

You actually did say that.

Directly behind him in the cctv footage is the petrol station , the spar on Baggot st is just metres away

I said "further out of the way", i.e. getting home, not further away.

Irrelevant anyway as I was thinking of a different Spar

Fr Tod Umptious · 11-12-2019 7:10pm

Lollipops23 wrote: »

None AFAIK.

Tbh I always wondered if he decided, given that his flatmates were away for the weekend, to pay for some 'female company' for the night. People do it all the time nowadays with the advent of Tinder and the like when they've been on the batter all night.

Maybe he was haggling a price or a pro's boss didn't like the look of Trevor for whatever reason.

Kind of unfounded idle speculation that got the old thread shut down.
Can you imagine the family reading this.

PARlance · 11-12-2019 7:16pm

sugarman wrote: »

Theres strong evidence to suggest the opposite... I mean, if somebody was going to commit suicide by jumping into a river, the last thing they'd care about was to go out of their way to grab an umbrella to keep dry on the way! ...or to check their work emails / make notes for the next following day, or to call a friend back and leave a voicemails saying i'll see you tomorrow!

My father (rural shopkeeper) was the last person to talk a guy who committed suicide, a local man, who I knew myself going up.

He called into the shop, had a chat, bought the usual milk bread and paper, discussed going to an upcoming match and off he went on his bike. Nothing unusual. He cycled about half a mile and hung himself underneath a bridge. Groceries were just left there, so they knew to talk to my father.

Nobody knows what goes through a person's mind but suicides don't need to be planned out. That man made up his mind somewhere on the half a mile cycle.

Spanish Eyes · 11-12-2019 7:23pm

PARlance wrote: »

My father (rural shopkeeper) was the last person to talk a guy who committed suicide, a local man, who I knew myself going up.

He called into the shop, had a chat, bought the usual milk bread and paper, discussed going to an upcoming match and off he went on his bike. Nothing unusual. He cycled about half a mile and hung himself underneath a bridge. Groceries were just left there, so they knew to talk to my father.

Nobody knows what goes through a person's mind but suicides don't need to be planned out. That man made up his mind somewhere on the half a mile cycle.

That is just so sad. But there is not much we can do really when they make the decision to go. Unless someone is close by who may be able to rescue them.

Thanks for sharing that experience.

tdf7187 · 11-12-2019 7:44pm

There is simply no evidence whatever that Trevor committed suicide. Literally none. While some of the theories about Trevor being subject to some kind of pressure from criminals due to his job are fanciful, they are less fanciful that the suicide theory, as far as I can see.

smelly sock · 11-12-2019 7:50pm

tdf7187 wrote: »

There is simply no evidence whatever that Trevor committed suicide. Literally none. While some of the theories about Trevor being subject to some kind of pressure from criminals due to his job are fanciful, they are less fanciful that the suicide theory, as far as I can see.

Theres no evidence to suggest a crime was committed either.

There is no evidence to support any theory. The witnesses seem to be really unreliable.

tdf7187 · 11-12-2019 7:51pm

Assetbacked wrote: »

I only measured to the Dodder bridge in Ballsbridge. Looking at his actual address, you're right, it is only a two minute difference and the fact he walked down Haddington Road wouldn't be weird at all.

Agreed, and given that St James Court is at the Sandymount end of Serpentine rather than the RDS/Ballsbridge end it's possible he knew a shortcut home across the river. Which particularly on that night makes it certainly plausible that he fell into the Dodder.

tdf7187 · 11-12-2019 7:53pm

smelly sock wrote: »

Theres no evidence to suggest a crime was committed either.

There is no evidence to support any theory. The witnesses seem to be really unreliable.

That's largely true. I don't agree with your statement about the witnesses being unreliable, they have given AGS all their recollections, bear in mind most of them would have been under the influence of alcohol at the night in question.

Coconut12 · 11-12-2019 8:02pm

https://www.google.ie/amp/s/amp.independent.ie/irish-news/how-drowning-and-suicide-were-dismissed-as-possible-explanations-36036878.html

oneilla · 11-12-2019 8:08pm

Lina Limited Workaholic wrote: »

Where did the Ponta Six video come from. What is the "third man enter from right" at 1 minute in the Ponta Six. Did the MIB go and return when Trevor's friends were there?

The Ponta Six videos wre made by filmmakers David Lester Mooney and Mark Kilbride. They were posted on broadsheet.ie in 2017 shortly after the enhanced footage was released. They spotted an inaccuracy in the Donal MacIntyre documentary where the voice over describes Trevor having encountered the mystery man in black when he leaves while on screen is a still of Trevor's colleague at the gate and the mystery man is still there. This was all cleared up when the Guards confirmed that two colleagues from the party also went back to the office to retrieve a bag.

tdf7187 · 11-12-2019 8:12pm

Coconut12 wrote: »

https://www.google.ie/amp/s/amp.independent.ie/irish-news/how-drowning-and-suicide-were-dismissed-as-possible-explanations-36036878.html

Thanks for article. It's worth putting headline up when you're posting links as otherwise people might not bother reading it.

How drowning and suicide were dismissed as possible explanations

Trevor Deely case - new witness

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