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Trevor Deely case - new witness

tdf7187

There was a previous lengthy thread on the case but it was locked for review and has yet to be reopened.

https://www.independent.ie/irish-news/new-witness-backs-up-gardas-theory-that-deely-killed-in-row-with-gang-38755889.html

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Alliance123

tuxy wrote: »

I've done this, taken shelter in the hope that rain dies down. If it doesn't it will get to the point where I'm really knackered and just want my own bed so will head out into it again.

MIB didnt give a toss about the weather. He was wet anyway and had other things on his mind. If he was concerned about shelter he wouldn't have stood out there in the wide open for 30 mins + before TD came along.

BDI

smelly sock wrote: »

Yeh i know that this is alleged to have happened. But the latest media reports suggest he was accidently killed on haddington rd. You actually have to dig for the article that says he was brought to a house. I still think he must have got further than we think. Even if a struggle were to happen with the amount of traffic on the road it would have been copped. Its possible TD also went to the property of his own accord.

Have you a link to the article that says he went to a house?

tuxy

BDI wrote: »

Have you a link to the article that says he went to a house?

Most of the main news sources are behind a paywall.
So this is not the most reliable link
https://www.buzz.ie/news/trevor-deely-249848

However if that informant said that Trevor was abducted then he was taken would assume somewhere were he can't be seen by the public. So a house would be the obvious choice.

Alliance123

andekwarhola wrote: »

I socialised in town plenty back then too and well remember the taxi situation. I know that area well. Even had friends on Wilton Place. Ending up in an impromptu taxi share outstde a pub or at a rank is different to approaching a stranger asking them to drive you home.

I agree with FTE though. It's not beyond the bounds of possibility at all that the guy was just sheltering or asking for change or smokes. The fact that he turns away crestfallen looking would back that up. Also if he's supposedly stalking TD, he's not exactly going to stick around with his colleagues at the gate I would have thought.

Was caught by the bollix there tho wasnt he? He wasnt expecting the colleagues to rock up. Who could have predicted that? A quick hello to them then renders him inconsequential and less suspicious

[Deleted User]

smelly sock wrote: »

Motive??

There is none

There is no motive for a criminal gang to watch or follow or attack someone like Trevor with premeditation.

What got the last thread closed was people creating a narrative around Trevor that supplied a motive for him to be targeted.

If he was the victim of a random attack on a quiet street then that's terribly sad and not unheard of, but IMO he was not the victim of a premeditated attack.

STB.

A lot of these lads would struggle to spell motive.

FFS. Motive. You really have no idea how many drug ravaged lunatics are out there. Dealers had addicts killed for insignificant debts. Their motivation is money. Drugs make people do crazy stuff.

noodler

STB. wrote: »

A lot of these lads would struggle to spell motive.

FFS. Motive. You really have no idea how many drug ravaged lunatics are out there. Dealers had addicts killed for insignificant debts. Their motivation is money. Drugs make people do crazy stuff.

The point is more motivation to, in the most extreme version of the theory, surveil his routes to and from work in previous day's, know what day his Xmas party is, where the party will be, watch him there, have a spotter at BOIAM because they somehow knew he'd walk there after the party etc etc.

That's the kind of motive posters above are questioning

smelly sock

Fr Tod Umptious wrote: »

There is none

There is no motive for a criminal gang to watch or follow or attack someone like Trevor with premeditation.

What got the last thread closed was people creating a narrative around Trevor that supplied a motive for him to be targeted.

If he was the victim of a random attack on a quiet street then that's terribly sad and not unheard of, but IMO he was not the victim of a premeditated attack.

I agree. It wasnt premeditated. I do believe however the criminal gang didnt just target him either. This wasnt a mugging gone wrong. If we are to believe he ended up in a house threatened at gun point it was hardly with the intention of robbing his wallet. Someone was pissed off enough with him to do that.

Day Lewin

smelly sock wrote: »

I agree. It wasnt premeditated. I do believe however the criminal gang didnt just target him either. This wasnt a mugging gone wrong. If we are to believe he ended up in a house threatened at gun point it was hardly with the intention of robbing his wallet. Someone was pissed off enough with him to do that.

Well, in fact, at the time there were several reports of exactly that - extortion with menaces. At a house in that area.
At least one tourist was shaken down this way, and he didn't like to tell his wife afterwards: an assignation made for sex or drugs, come to this address, and whoops! Your watch and your wallet, please!

It was an operation by a west-side criminal outfit who were working girls and drugs.
It is entirely possible that this happened to Trevor Deely and the gun actually got fired.
There's just no evidence whatever for it!

barc1985

Listen the dig that took place where they found the guns cost a fortune. A single guard or detective can't make that call that went right to the top because numerous high ranking police were either shown circumstantial evidence or testimony that was checked and deemed credible to receive funds for a dig like that. I hope his family get closure soon.

misterme123

I'm curious about a couple of things.

Someone posted that the scantily dressed woman was eventually identified, but I've never seen this in any news report. She doesn't seem to feature in recent Garda appeals though, despite initial appeals for her to come forward.

Also, the enhanced footage that revealed MIB outside the bank for 30 minutes prior to Trevor's arrival; presumably Gardai had studied the footage but couldn't make anything out. (I don't see why the CCTV was quite so bad even in the year 2000, but that's another story.) Then 17 years later it was enhanced and revealed MIB's movements. I'm just curious about the technology. You can't increase the resolution of a picture. Can they combine data from the CCTV with information about the light sources to generate an image?

Unfortunately for Trevor Deely's family, in the era of social media I don't think it's possible to keep a story in the public mind and control the discussion at the same time. I hope this thread can be kept open so people can discuss the case while being respectful to the family. Like a lot of people who remember it, this tragedy really struck a chord with me and I've always followed news reports about it in the hope that one day it would be resolved. It's every family's worst nightmare.

tuxy

misterme123 wrote: »

Also, the enhanced footage that revealed MIB outside the bank for 30 minutes prior to Trevor's arrival; presumably Gardai had studied the footage but couldn't make anything out. (I don't see why the CCTV was quite so bad even in the year 2000, but that's another story.) Then 17 years later it was enhanced and revealed MIB's movements. I'm just curious about the technology. You can't increase the resolution of a picture. Can they combine data from the CCTV with information about the light sources to generate an image?

No idea how they enhanced it but just think about video recorded onto a magnetic VHS tape that already has been recorded over 1000 times and it would explain the quality.
Security cameras may have been a requirement for insurance and not really ran in a way that intended to actually catch someone.

Day Lewin

Even back then, grainy flickery CCTV was used eg on Crimeline, to try and identify robbers from petrol stations, ATMs etc.

It was videotape, so the quality was always fairly bad.

A photographer tells me that you can increase resolution in a final image, by, for example:
Superimposing multiple digital copies of the same sequence
using editing software to flatten out irregularities and force up the contrast
probably a few more technical tricks as well.
There is specialist software for this kind of thing, used by security forces, among others.

That's obviously what was done with the old CCTV footage - and it did reveal some new info.
And it's my bet that there may be a little more unpublished: why would the Guards show their whole hand to the public?

I'd love to have taken a closer look at the opposite side of the street while the MIB waits on Wilton Terrace: one can catch a glimpse of lights going on and off.
And on Haddington Rd, there is the briefest hint of a car about to pull in, right at the top edge of screen.

JaimeLannister

No theories to add but just a few observations on the cctv footage:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RcYxruBEmFE

1. As Trevor is leaving his workplace at around 4.02.02 on the timestamp, someone walks by on the street outside from left to right. They seem to be wearing overalls/wet-gear. Were they ever identified? Presumably showed up on the cctv from gate1 carrying on walking in the same direction and so deemed irrelevant

2. On the Milanos/Haddington Rd. footage - when Trevor leaves the frame, you can see his feet (or maybe reflections of his feet) in the puddles at the top of the screen. Around 4.14.45 in the top left puddle, and then at 4.14.55 looks like something moving to the right. It's possible that Trevor crossed the road at this point. A car drives by at 4.15.05. Was this car/driver ever identified or sought out?

3. This PontaSix video (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FWX1owMUA6E) includes additional footage of MIB when Trevor's colleagues arrive at the gate (albeit they are blacked out). The final 15 secs or so of this video includes some grainy images of MIB and Trevor's colleague (?) looking in the gate. Surely if the same CCTV enhancement techniques were used on the footage where this image came from, as with the footage of Trevor arriving, the gardai would have a pretty clear image of the MIB? Which could be released to the public? It's possible they know who the MIB is and do not need any public assistance in identifying him

80j2lc5y7u6qs9

JaimeLannister wrote: »

No theories to add but just a few observations on the cctv footage:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RcYxruBEmFE

1. As Trevor is leaving his workplace at around 4.02.02 on the timestamp, someone walks by on the street outside from left to right. They seem to be wearing overalls/wet-gear. Were they ever identified? Presumably showed up on the cctv from gate1 carrying on walking in the same direction and so deemed irrelevant

2. On the Milanos/Haddington Rd. footage - when Trevor leaves the frame, you can see his feet (or maybe reflections of his feet) in the puddles at the top of the screen. Around 4.14.45 in the top left puddle, and then at 4.14.55 looks like something moving to the right. It's possible that Trevor crossed the road at this point. A car drives by at 4.15.05. Was this car/driver ever identified or sought out?

3. This PontaSix video (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FWX1owMUA6E) includes additional footage of MIB when Trevor's colleagues arrive at the gate (albeit they are blacked out). The final 15 secs or so of this video includes some grainy images of MIB and Trevor's colleague (?) looking in the gate. Surely if the same CCTV enhancement techniques were used on the footage where this image came from, as with the footage of Trevor arriving, the gardai would have a pretty clear image of the MIB? Which could be released to the public? It's possible they know who the MIB is and do not need any public assistance in identifying him

Where did the Ponta Six video come from. What is the "third man enter from right" at 1 minute in the Ponta Six. Did the MIB go and return when Trevor's friends were there?

KWAG2019

The extra footage of people outside the gate has, of course, been addressed by now. TD’s workmates and the MIB. Workmates were identified years ago. The point about whether the MIB is already known/ probably known to police is well made. Extra footage may have been released in documentary.

The puddle reflections were discussed in previous thread. I’m not sure if also here. If and it is a big if, they indicate TD crossing road then it MAY indicate that he was going to take the next right turn which brings him down two lanes toward his flat. Others in different threads have pointed out that there is no footage from the Israeli embassy (at the end of these lanes) that TD emerged from those lanes or from the US embassy nearer his flat. Whether the reflection in the puddles indicates that is speculation. Whether he took those lanes is speculation. We simply don’t know.

If you look at the Haddington Road footage released by the police I don’t think it lasts long enough imho to see if the puddles reflect any activity after the man following TD.

Knine

Was there any evidence he actually made it home to his flat?

DmanDmythDledge

KWAG2019 wrote: »

The extra footage of people outside the gate has, of course, been addressed by now. TD’s workmates and the MIB. Workmates were identified years ago. The point about whether the MIB is already known/ probably known to police is well made. Extra footage may have been released in documentary.

The puddle reflections were discussed in previous thread. I’m not sure if also here. If and it is a big if, they indicate TD crossing road then it MAY indicate that he was going to take the next right turn which brings him down two lanes toward his flat. Others in different threads have pointed out that there is no footage from the Israeli embassy (at the end of these lanes) that TD emerged from those lanes or from the US embassy nearer his flat. Whether the reflection in the puddles indicates that is speculation. Whether he took those lanes is speculation. We simply don’t know.

If you look at the Haddington Road footage released by the police I don’t think it lasts long enough imho to see if the puddles reflect any activity after the man following TD.

I don't think it makes sense he would have used one of those lanes to return home rather than using Pembroke Road. I think he's either heading for Percy Place or the spar on Bath Avenue. Other posters have mentioned the 24 hour spar on Upper Baggot St but that's further out of the way than using the one on Bath Avenue and heading to Serpentine via Landsdowne Road.

Fiftyfilthy

DmanDmythDledge wrote: »

I don't think it makes sense he would have used one of those lanes to return home rather than using Pembroke Road. I think he's either heading for Percy Place or the spar on Bath Avenue. Other posters have mentioned the 24 hour spar on Upper Baggot St but that's further out of the way than using the one on Bath Avenue and heading to Serpentine via Landsdowne Road.

No it’s not, spar is 30 seconds from him in the cctv

[Deleted User]

Knine wrote: »

Was there any evidence he actually made it home to his flat?

Lollipops23

Knine wrote: »

Was there any evidence he actually made it home to his flat?

None AFAIK.

Tbh I always wondered if he decided, given that his flatmates were away for the weekend, to pay for some 'female company' for the night. People do it all the time nowadays with the advent of Tinder and the like when they've been on the batter all night.

Maybe he was haggling a price or a pro's boss didn't like the look of Trevor for whatever reason.

[Deleted User]

Fiftyfilthy wrote: »

No it’s not, spar is 30 seconds from him in the cctv

Yes there was a Maxol station there, but the Spar people are referring to is Bath Av/South Lott's Rd.

I personally thought he was on his way to Spar until it was pointed out Maxol was right next to him.

Fiftyfilthy

Fr Tod Umptious wrote: »

Yes there was a Maxol station there, but the Spar people are referring to is Bath Av/South Lott's Rd.

I personally thought he was on his way to Spar until it was pointed out Maxol was right next to him.

I was replying to the post where the poster mentioned that the 24hr spar on Baggot st was further away than the one on bath avenue

I was just saying, that it was seconds away

Always a possibility the spar on bath avenue stocked something that wasn’t in the Baggot st shop

Maybe felt safer at that particular moment taking that route, more cars, people , residential lights etc

Hard to know

Assetbacked

Lollipops23 wrote: »

None AFAIK.

Tbh I always wondered if he decided, given that his flatmates were away for the weekend, to pay for some 'female company' for the night. People do it all the time nowadays with the advent of Tinder and the like when they've been on the batter all night.

Maybe he was haggling a price or a pro's boss didn't like the look of Trevor for whatever reason.

I've thought that as well, given the route home he took down Haddington Road which is just not the way to get to where he lived. I used to walk through that area home from town a number of years ago after a few pints and there is a temptation when you're a bit pissed and heading home alone to engage with the offers from the ladies of the night. It would explain how he came to end up in a house and be subject to an attempted mugging. From the CCTV it seems like MIB had some interaction with him prior to Trevor going to the office, maybe to set up the meet with a girl. Then the MIB was opportunistic as he saw Trevor worked in a bank so presumed he had access to money which then lead to an attempted mugging rather than just a transaction for sex.

smelly sock

Lollipops23 wrote: »

None AFAIK.

Tbh I always wondered if he decided, given that his flatmates were away for the weekend, to pay for some 'female company' for the night. People do it all the time nowadays with the advent of Tinder and the like when they've been on the batter all night.

Maybe he was haggling a price or a pro's boss didn't like the look of Trevor for whatever reason.

Yes. A real possibility.

The only way i can see him having a run in with a gang.

tdf7187

The Haddington Road route is a way to get home, it's not the most direct route and not the route I would have gone but maybe it's the route he preferred for whether reason. I really don't think it's much longer distance wise, someone more technically adept than I could use Google maps to test distances and so on.

Assetbacked

tdf7187 wrote: »

The Haddington Road route is a way to get home, it's not the most direct route and not the route I would have gone but maybe it's the route he preferred for whether reason. I really don't think it's much longer distance wise, someone more technically adept than I could use Google maps to test distances and so on.

I have 17 mins versus 12 mins from Google maps measurement.

tdf7187

Assetbacked wrote: »

I have 17 mins versus 12 mins from Google maps measurement.

Ok thanks, so not much in it then. Plus he would have been disoriented after a few pints, that's just reality. If the family are offended by someone saying that I think they need to be realistic. So he may have set out in the wrong direction then figured out he could get home using an alternative route along the canal. Or as I already suggested maybe he just preferred the canal route.

Btw, people saying he might have fallen into the Dodder, surely it is possible that he also fell into the canal, or has that been ruled out?

TwoMonthsOff

If he wanted a brass surely he would have picked one up by the time he got to the BOI on haddington road. Hes heading away from the action there

Fiftyfilthy

TwoMonthsOff wrote: »

If he wanted a brass surely he would have picked one up by the time he got to the BOI on haddington road. Hes heading away from the action there

I’m only replying to the question and not to what he did or didn’t do possibly

Percy place, Haddington Road would have them hanging around too
Across the bridge on Percy place to the peppicanister ( don’t know the correct spelling)

Around that time and weather, wouldn’t be too many in general