what is the burning passion for having an open fire?

buried · 10-12-2019 10:15pm

Andy From Sligo wrote: »

aye thats it. Its a local problem , first and foremost . It might be contributing to the world Co2 problem or it may not but no-one can deny its affecting local people every winter (and cold summer nights when people decide to light a fire) but worse in winter because of the dense fog and mist.

Hey Andy

Do you drive a car?

Andy From Sligo · 10-12-2019 10:19pm

Galwayguy35 wrote: »

Smart move there by the Government, let the hapless councillers get it in the neck from the voters!

Smart move there by the Government - pass the buck onto other departments/people. If its a success they will take the credit .. and if it dont work out they can blame it on councils

Agent_47 · 10-12-2019 10:20pm

I love threads like this, the Government can plot and plan to ban what it likes but it cannot even stop the Donegal reg flat bed trailer fully laden with coal sailing down the M2 into Dublin to feed them coal fires!

Coal from the North, where would we be without it! Probably never stopped by customs or Gardai on the way down.

Thoughts and wry smiles from a journey on the M2 to work Monday

buried · 10-12-2019 10:21pm

lol Somebody ask Andy there does he drive a car and if he does is he going to change up his own tradition of burning fossil fuel ruining everybody else's health just like the fireplace people

Andy From Sligo · 10-12-2019 10:22pm

Muahahaha wrote: »

Well they would be getting it in the neck from me given I just installed a wood burning stove a few months ago for 1.5k and I've about a ton of logs lying out the back

sacrifices for the better quality of life are priceless

ytpe2r5bxkn0c1 · 10-12-2019 10:24pm

Andy From Sligo wrote: »

sacrifices for the better quality of life are priceless

How do you heat your home Andy? And do you drive?

buried · 10-12-2019 10:26pm

From the motors thread it seems like Andy does indeed drive.

Funny that.

Maybe he has the same car as Fred Flinstone and it is feet powered or something?

Andy From Sligo · 10-12-2019 10:32pm

368100 wrote: »

I think it's cosy and adds atmosphere to a room. But I also can't be bothered with the dirt and cleaning of the whole thing, so I bought an electric stove heater and just use it for flame effect.

House is warm enough anyways so don't need to use heater part but it does the job adding atmosphere.....still not as nice as open fire but I'm happy with the compromise :-)

yeah I'd be the same.

Rubberchikken · 10-12-2019 10:35pm

ill never give up our open fire.
have no problem bringing in coal/cleaning the grate/chimney/lighting fire etc.

plus its our only source of heat. cant run to oil this year either.

Ubbquittious · 10-12-2019 10:36pm

buried wrote: »

From the motors thread it seems like Andy does indeed drive.

Funny that.

Maybe he has the same car as Fred Flinstone and it is feet powered or something?

...up and down to 51 Upper Mount Street every day?

Andy From Sligo · 10-12-2019 10:36pm

air wrote: »

Not having any impact on the air quality in Irish towns and cities though, unlike our solid fuel fires.

I wonder if any other benefits like (as silly as it sounds) outside windows not needing cleaning as much or exterior paintwork keeping cleaner ? - I mean if soot particles are getting into the air it must have to settle somewhere hasnt it?

buried · 10-12-2019 10:37pm

Ubbquittious wrote: »

...up and down to 51 Upper Mount Street every day?

YaBBAA DaBAAA Dont DO it

gmisk · 10-12-2019 10:37pm

I don't have an open fire but have a stove built into fireplace, really cosy and very little mess with it.

Andy From Sligo · 10-12-2019 11:02pm

deezell wrote: »

But this will never happen unless people are incentivised. Our leaders are all stick and no carrot. Co. councillors have even less imagination, pandering as they do to the populist agenda. Here's a suggestion I guarantee would produce results. A program of chimney removal or disabling, to below the roof tiles, paid for in full by the state, and an immediate substantial reduction in property tax for compliant houses. Put their money where their mouths are. Architecturally significant chimneys could be disabled by a simple pouring of lightweight mass concrete filling the flue, not easily reversible. Actually this latter method would be very cost effective to perform with the right mobile concrete pump rig, you could do streets of houses in a day.

I am just trying to think of the last couple of life changing things people have been asked to do without incentive or reward and the couple that stand out in my head is smoking ban and ban on 100w light bulbs. on of the 2 most passionate things if you like. - a smoking ban came in , people werent rewarded with a reduction in the cost of cigarettes to purchase, loads didnt like it , also didnt like the thought of being shoved outside to smoke in the freezing cold .. but they did it. - 100w light bulbs were banned and asked people to buy CFL light bulbs. They complained that 'they werent as bright as a 100w light bulb' and some foamed at the mouth if they saw the last remaining 100w light bulbs on the shelves buying them all up LOL - i am sure there are most probably other hardships the general public have had to contend with but those are really the latest things I can think of now that even I am surprised people gave up .. in the end , especially furore at the beginning of the announcement of these things

air · 10-12-2019 11:12pm

Dorian Square Hamper wrote: »

How do you heat your home Andy? And do you drive?

Based on the professor quoted in that Irish Times article and the link I posted on solid fuel emissions, he could drive a Ferrari 24/7/365 and still not have as much impact on air quality as a single solid fuel fire would have in a year.

We all cause pollution of various sorts, to a greater or lesser degree depending on lifestyle.
The real answer to almost all environmental issues is a huge drop in world population.
Short of that we need to eliminate pollution where we can, starting with what has the most impact.
Burning solid fuel while there are plenty of cleaner and more convenient alternatives is a good example of this.

Andy From Sligo · 10-12-2019 11:19pm

buried wrote: »

Do you drive a car Andy man?

well, wife does. I wanted her to buy BEV last February but wife frightened of range anxiety and i didnt know if the electricity to charge the BEV came from coal stations or peat burning stations .. anyway got a nice economical petrol engine car nearly 50mpg - didnt want a stinky diesel

Micky 32 · 10-12-2019 11:23pm

Andy From Sligo wrote: »

didnt want a stinky diesel

Modern diesel cars don't smell and they aren't smokey, just to clarify that

Andy From Sligo · 10-12-2019 11:27pm

buried wrote: »

From the motors thread it seems like Andy does indeed drive.

Funny that.

Maybe he has the same car as Fred Flinstone and it is feet powered or something?

everybody asking do I drive - sounds like you are loosing the argument but just clutching at straws - this thread is about open fireplaces and why would people be up in arms if there were a ban on using open fireplace or burning smokey fuel .

.. I mean if you like I could start another thread to discuss if I drive a car or not if you like , but its been done to death anyway how much pollution cars produce.

.. and no I dont have an open fire, havent had for years

Ubbquittious · 10-12-2019 11:29pm

Andy From Sligo wrote: »

well, wife does. I wanted her to buy BEV last February but wife frightened of range anxiety and i didnt know if the electricity to charge the BEV came from coal stations or peat burning stations .. anyway got a nice economical petrol engine car nearly 50mpg - didnt want a stinky diesel

With the new smart meters coming in they'll be able to detect fellas charging their electric car and redirect the filthiest of electricity to those customers through an elaborate array of contactors at the local substation. If you do get one eventually just think of the gridmasters sniggering away at you behind your back from their control panels

Andy From Sligo · 10-12-2019 11:35pm

air wrote: »

Based on the professor quoted in that Irish Times article and the link I posted on solid fuel emissions, he could drive a Ferrari 24/7/365 and still not have as much impact on air quality as a single solid fuel fire would have in a year.

We all cause pollution of various sorts, to a greater or lesser degree depending on lifestyle.
The real answer to almost all environmental issues is a huge drop in world population.
Short of that we need to eliminate pollution where we can, starting with what has the most impact.
Burning solid fuel while there are plenty of cleaner and more convenient alternatives is a good example of this.

indeed - if there were no cleaner way we could keep our homes warm invented and readily available (at the moment anyway until that fuel runs out) then I might have more sympathy with the subject.

but people burning stinky fuel that make people cough and splutter in the outside air and more than likely affect other respiratory breathing problems such as COPD, Asthma and emphysema and the like because they find it cosy and like the dancing flickering light and the crackles it makes - no, I am not so sure any more. Victorian times maybe but no, not in the 21st century

Andy From Sligo · 10-12-2019 11:37pm

Micky 32 wrote: »

Modern diesel cars don't smell and they aren't smokey, just to clarify that

oh good - we all go out an buy a new Diesel then (better be fast before long now you wont be able to even buy a diesel vehicle soon ) - because there are more older Diesel cars on the roads every day with smokey stinking exhaust fumes than there are new ones ...

Andy From Sligo · 10-12-2019 11:40pm

Ubbquittious wrote: »

If d'EU marches in we just lay low for a while until it blows over and go back to the way it was.

.. or change our ways and end up thinking " do you know what? its not too bad, I am not going back to all that now and people are healthier now"

Micky 32 · 10-12-2019 11:41pm

Andy From Sligo wrote: »

oh good - we all go out an buy a new Diesel then (better be fast before long now you wont be able to even buy a diesel vehicle soon ) - because there are more older Diesel cars on the roads every day with smokey stinking exhaust fumes than there are new ones ...

How old are you? Grow up... just because they are old stinky diesels on the road that has absolutely nothing to do with newer diesels, are you capable of inderstanding that? Furthermore your “50mpg” petrol engine produces more c02 than diesels.

Diesels will be around for a bit longer than you think they will ;-)

Andy From Sligo · 10-12-2019 11:49pm

Micky 32 wrote: »

How old are you? Grow up... just because they are old stinky diesels on the road that has absolutely nothing to do with newer diesels, are you capable of inderstanding that? Furthermore your “50mpg” petrol engine produces more c02 than diesels.

Diesels will be around for a bit longer than you think they will ;-)

yep , but what is it you would like me (us) to do - give up driving .. just because i am citing that coal fires (especially with bituminous smokey coal) are making people ill

OK , I will stop driving .. but still people will light their fires and still people will go out in the (fresh?) air and still cough and splutter from the harmful fumes in the air in towns, cities and villages in Ireland especially on foggy days in the winter where the fumes just lie there and dont go up into the air .

Micky 32 · 10-12-2019 11:59pm

Andy From Sligo wrote: »

yep , but what is it you would like me (us) to do - give up driving .. just because i am citing that coal fires (especially with bituminous smokey coal) are making people ill

OK , I will stop driving .. but still people will light their fires and still people will go out in the (fresh?) air and still cough and splutter from the harmful fumes in the air in towns, cities and villages in Ireland especially on foggy days in the winter where the fumes just lie there and dont go up into the air .

What you on about? Far as I’m concerned keepi driving, i certainly will ;-)

Andy From Sligo · 11-12-2019 12:03am

Micky 32 wrote: »

What you on about? Far as I’m concerned keepi driving, i certainly will ;-)

oh soz I thought you were maybe citing that I am potentially 2 faced saying that I am going on about people using cleaner fuel to heat up their homes whilst driving around in a potentially un-economical petrol car - I thought that is what you were getting at

Micky 32 · 11-12-2019 12:04am

Andy From Sligo wrote: »

oh soz I thought you were maybe citing that I am potentially 2 faced saying that I am going on about people using cleaner fuel to heat up their homes whilst driving around in a potentially un-economical petrol car - I thought that is what you were getting at

No not at all.

Andy From Sligo · 11-12-2019 12:07am

Micky 32 wrote: »

No not at all.

oh right sorry

Loafing Oaf · 11-12-2019 12:46am

https://www.irishexaminer.com/breakingnews/ireland/taoiseach-accuses-fianna-fail-of-anti-rural-agenda-over-smoky-coal-ban-969637.html

Leo the horny-handed son of the soil accuses FF of being an 'anti-rural party' over their stance on this issue.:rolleyes:

I'm a bit confused about this. Was it not the government who floated the idea of extending the ban on smoky coal to turf and timber in the first place? And if not where did it come from?

Andy From Sligo · 11-12-2019 1:22am

Loafing Oaf wrote: »

https://www.irishexaminer.com/breakingnews/ireland/taoiseach-accuses-fianna-fail-of-anti-rural-agenda-over-smoky-coal-ban-969637.html

Leo the horny-handed son of the soil accuses FF of being an 'anti-rural party' over their stance on this issue.:rolleyes:

I'm a bit confused about this. Was it not the government who floated the idea of extending the ban on smoky coal to turf and timber in the first place? And if not where did it come from?

Labour’s Alan Kelly started the idea in 2015 - due to be banned nationally in all towns , cities and villages of Ireland in autumn 2018

and Minister for Climate Action and Environment Richard Bruton has now confirmed it will be pushed back. He gave no indication of when the ban would come into force - so shelved indefinitely it sounds like

https://www.irishtimes.com/news/environment/government-delays-plans-for-smoky-coal-ban-following-legal-threats-from-industry-1.3849945?fbclid=IwAR1bJ2yurUq-EJwqd3_vFOZSTgRNmDcAcBAjT7aHYZutQQzFeV8VIIxk0Ws

Graces7 · 11-12-2019 7:06am

Out here; islanded, and burn island turf from the field next door, and coal. The stove has a back boiler so that heats the water.

That way I pay as I use so no nasty shocks from ESB... I cook by bottled gas for the same reason.

I no longer run a car; am island and all but housebound. Do not use a washing machine as it proved impossible to get anyone over to plumb my new one in.
.
Swings and roundabouts and free choices and life style. At my advanced age, a real fire has been a lifelong resource.

Oh no one here coughs and splutters and we all burn turf. The Atlantic winds sort that.

stefanovich · 11-12-2019 7:13am

Bobblehats wrote: »

Women in Love?

Loafing Oaf · 11-12-2019 11:19am

Andy From Sligo wrote: »

Labour’s Alan Kelly started the idea in 2015 - due to be banned nationally in all towns , cities and villages of Ireland in autumn 2018

and Minister for Climate Action and Environment Richard Bruton has now confirmed it will be pushed back. He gave no indication of when the ban would come into force - so shelved indefinitely it sounds like

https://www.irishtimes.com/news/environment/government-delays-plans-for-smoky-coal-ban-following-legal-threats-from-industry-1.3849945?fbclid=IwAR1bJ2yurUq-EJwqd3_vFOZSTgRNmDcAcBAjT7aHYZutQQzFeV8VIIxk0Ws

You're saying Alan Kelly initially proposed the nationwide smoky coal ban? But I'm asking where the idea of extending that to turf and timber came out of. Varadkar certainly seems to be disociating himself from it...

s7ryf3925pivug · 11-12-2019 2:27pm

Loafing Oaf wrote: »

You're saying Alan Kelly initially proposed the nationwide smoky coal ban? But I'm asking where the idea of extending that to turf and timber came out of. Varadkar certainly seems to be disociating himself from it...

The premise the coal industry would use to sue the government is that it is not consistent to ban smokey coal but not peat and wood. So the only way to ban smokey coal nationwide without expecting to be sued would be to ban the others as well.

Loafing Oaf · 11-12-2019 2:37pm

Jonathan Dazzling Heat wrote: »

The premise the coal industry would use to sue the government is that it is not consistent to ban smokey coal but not peat and wood. So the only way to ban smokey coal nationwide without expecting to be sued would be to ban the others as well.

I get that but I'm not seeing who is actually saying, or implying, we should actually do the bolded bit.

s7ryf3925pivug · 11-12-2019 2:47pm

Loafing Oaf wrote: »

I get that but I'm not seeing who is actually saying, or implying, we should actually do the bolded bit.

Absolutely should ban turf and peat. Banning wood seems impractical and possibly counter productive. High efficiency wood burning stoves and wood pellet boilers are advocated as being carbon neutral. There also are people who depend on burning solid fuel to keep warm.

There is going to be a public consultation on the matter anyway. I'm sure the voice of reason will be drowned out as usual.

s7ryf3925pivug · 11-12-2019 2:48pm

Irish and simple solution is to ban it all and just not enforce the wood burning ban.

2lazytogetup · 11-12-2019 3:02pm

Idea of wood burning being carbon neutral is untrue and a marketing ploy from stove producers. Cant remember all the details but many wood logs are transported from as far away as china and the burning efficicency is only 20%.

My biggest problem is the selfishness of homes burning wood and peat and coal. All the fumes go outside onto the roads and paths and very detrimental to health of neighbours and people outside. Could be GAA training, or kids in a school yard. Its like f**k them outside, i dont care as long as I want a fire inside my house, it doesnt matter what other people think, as long as i am happy, thats all that matters.

s7ryf3925pivug · 11-12-2019 3:16pm

2lazytogetup wrote: »

Idea of wood burning being carbon neutral is untrue and a marketing ploy from stove producers. Cant remember all the details but many wood logs are transported from as far away as china and the burning efficicency is only 20%.

My biggest problem is the selfishness of homes burning wood and peat and coal. All the fumes go outside onto the roads and paths and very detrimental to health of neighbours and people outside. Could be GAA training, or kids in a school yard. Its like f**k them outside, i dont care as long as I want a fire inside my house, it doesnt matter what other people think, as long as i am happy, thats all that matters.

I concluded wood burning stoves are bad after looking into them alright. It might behave been more to do with particulate than carbon. We disposed of our stove and bricked up the fireplace. I was under the impression wood pellet boilers are a good option where heat pumps aren't suitable though.

pablo128 · 11-12-2019 4:20pm

My brother in law lives in Sweden. I was over there talking to a friend of his who lives outside the town in a one off house, with a few neighbours within sight.

They all use wood pellet burners. They are electrically controlled, and don't leave a lot of ash. Now it was probably 6 or 7 years ago, but they used about 1200 euro worth a year. (It can get down to -30°c).

If a country like Sweden readily allows it, it cant be that bad in my book.

sbsquarepants · 11-12-2019 5:16pm

2lazytogetup wrote: »

Idea of wood burning being carbon neutral is untrue and a marketing ploy from stove producers. Cant remember all the details but many wood logs are transported from as far away as china and the burning efficicency is only 20%.

.

Not if you burn them in Belfast, then they magically become 200% efficient. That Arlene bloke is some geebag.:D

I personally don't see the appeal of open fires, yeah fires are nice to look at but they are an absolute pain in the hole to light, clean and control.

I always wanted one of those big american gas fired fireplaces though. Looks the part but flick a switch to light and no cleaning. The gas inserts you get here never look right. They must hoor through the gas though.

Ubbquittious · 11-12-2019 8:04pm

2lazytogetup wrote: »

Idea of wood burning being carbon neutral is untrue and a marketing ploy from stove producers. Cant remember all the details but many wood logs are transported from as far away as china and the burning efficicency is only 20%.

My biggest problem is the selfishness of homes burning wood and peat and coal. All the fumes go outside onto the roads and paths and very detrimental to health of neighbours and people outside. Could be GAA training, or kids in a school yard. Its like f**k them outside, i dont care as long as I want a fire inside my house, it doesnt matter what other people think, as long as i am happy, thats all that matters.

I doubt there is anyone here bringing logs in from China that havn't been first turned into crappy furniture.

From what I can tell there aren't enough fires being lit to worsen the air quality enough to deem it unhealthy. If it does happen it will be very localised and only on very calm days. Other people will always have some effect on your life unless you want to live in some technophile utopia city where everyone is physically prevented from having any contact with each other and possibly plugged into a matrix of some form

Ubbquittious · 11-12-2019 8:06pm

sbsquarepants wrote: »

Not if you burn them in Belfast, then they magically become 200% efficient. That Arlene bloke is some geebag.:D

I personally don't see the appeal of open fires, yeah fires are nice to look at but they are an absolute pain in the hole to light, clean and control.

I always wanted one of those big american gas fired fireplaces though. Looks the part but flick a switch to light and no cleaning. The gas inserts you get here never look right. They must hoor through the gas though.

This stuff about them being a pain in the hole to clean keeps coming up but I wonder how long do people spend cleaning them? Even if you're burning turf week in week out surely you'd spend no more than a few minutes cleaning the thing and the lighting is easy unless your fuel is damp

Mic 1972 · 11-12-2019 8:09pm

I have a gas fire, it looks very sleek and keeps the room really warm, it's real fire not one of those electrical fakes

deezell · 11-12-2019 8:25pm

From the tone of some of the anti stove replies here, do I detect a whiff (Pardon the Pun) of that new social media phenomenon, 'shaming'? 'Emissions' or "stove' or solid fuel shaming? If so, you can fcuk off back to Twatter or Faceache, boards is a discussion forum. Make your point and support it with facts, not your holier than thou put downs and opinions of those who have a different world view to you. You like stoves? Fine. You like hermetically sealed underfloor heated incubator homes? Good for you. Tell us why you like them, not why you detest the people who think differently.

air · 11-12-2019 8:27pm

Ubbquittious wrote: »

From what I can tell there aren't enough fires being lit to worsen the air quality enough to deem it unhealthy. If it does happen it will be very localised and only on very calm days.

You can't tell a whole lot then, given pollution is 10 times worse at night than it is during the day on 1 in 5 winter nights.
This has been attributed to domestic solid fuel burning.

deezell · 11-12-2019 8:34pm

air wrote: »

You can't tell a whole lot then, given night time pollution is 10 times worse at nighst than it is during the day on 1 in 5 winter nights.
This has been attributed to domestic solid fuel burning.

And if this pollution level during the day is trivial, 10 times that is still trivial. Ten times is not a measure of anything, it's just rhetoric. And how are you qualified to state this person 'cant tell a whole lot'? His statement is an empirical observation of fact.

air · 11-12-2019 8:40pm

deezell wrote: »

And if this pollution level during the day is trivial, 10 times that is still trivial. Ten times is not a measure of anything, it's just rhetoric.

From the IT article I linked previously
Prof O’Dowd confirmed “extraordinary levels of air pollution” exceeding WHO guidelines were found in Dublin during one in five winter days last year

So exceeding WHO guidelines is trivial rhetoric?

deezell wrote: »

And how are you qualified to state this person 'cant tell a whole lot'? His statement is an empirical observation of fact.

I'm qualified to read, and all he has offered is feelings. He hasn't presented any facts or references to support his position that there is no issue with air pollution caused by solid fuel fires.

Ubbquittious · 11-12-2019 8:44pm

air wrote: »

You can't tell a whole lot then, given pollution is 10 times worse at night than it is during the day on 1 in 5 winter nights.
This has been attributed to domestic solid fuel burning.

You can be attributing away but that doesnt make it so. There are more sources of night time pollution than people lighting fires.

1 in 5 winter nights is about 18 days of the year which is feck all. and most of the country(by area and by population) remains unaffected. If the daytime air quality is really good like it is in pretty much the whole country than '10 times worse' could very well still not be bad enough to cause a problem.

NIMAN · 11-12-2019 8:47pm

We got our stove taken out after last winter, and to be honest we miss it in the living room. It is great on a cold night.

OH already talking about putting one back in!

As for the pollution, it is very obvious in some places locally. There are certain parts of the local town where you drive through a thick area of smoke, where its obvious people are burning really cheap, dirty coal. Its can't be good for the lungs.

what is the burning passion for having an open fire?

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