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Dairy Chitchat 3

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    #7202
    Panch18
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,471 ✭✭✭Panch18


    Birdnuts wrote: »
    No one comes out good from this report - it does mention the issue of sewage discharges but nitrate losses from farmland also get alot of coverge with the SE and South Midlands seeing the most severe deteriation on that front. Also quiet shocking how the number of "pristine" water bodies has collapsed to virtually nothing since the 80'S:eek::(

    nitrogen use in agriculture has been flat in ireland since the 1980's at around 300k tons per year if i remember correctly. Obviously it varies from year to year but the trend is flat

    Also farmers are much more aware of nitrogen usage these days with the bloody cost of it so it use of fertilise is much more targeted

    Also from a slurry point of view we are now using trailing shoe and dribble bars which are meant to reduce the threat of pollution - these didn't exist in Ireland in the 80's

    So it is easy to blame nitrate losses from farming but the reality should point to a different source because the reality (that word again) is that we are NOT using any more fertiliser than the 80's and we are better (supposedly anyway) at making use of the fertiliser that we do use


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    #7203
    Birdnuts
    Registered Users Posts: 9,645 ✭✭✭Birdnuts


    Panch18 wrote: »
    nitrogen use in agriculture has been flat in ireland since the 1980's at around 80k tons per year if i remember correctly. Obviously it varies from year to year but the trend is flat

    Also farmers are much more aware of nitrogen usage these days with the bloody cost of it so it use of fertilise is much more targeted

    Also from a slurry point of view we are now using trailing shoe and dribble bars which are meant to reduce the threat of pollution - these didn't exist in Ireland in the 80's

    So it is easy to blame nitrate losses from farming but the reality should point to a different source because the reality (that word again) is that we are NOT using any more fertiliser than the 80's and we are better (supposedly anyway) at making use of the fertiliser that we do use

    Nitrogen use fell between the late 90's and 2015 - but has been rising since then according to a piece I saw in the IFJ a couple of weeks ago . I suppose many will make the link between that recent rise and the lifting of milk quotas. Rising amonnia emmissions are also being flagged

    https://www.independent.ie/business/farming/forestry-enviro/environment/options-to-reduce-fertiliser-use-will-need-to-be-implemented-at-farm-level-epa-38087938.html


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    #7204
    alps
    Registered Users Posts: 4,941 ✭✭✭alps


    Too many farmers couldn't give a damn.....


    Simple as this now....those without the slurry storage, who blacken ground mid winter, who constantly moan that regulations are only for eejits..

    Well, they'll cost us all plenty now...


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    #7205
    Say my name
    Registered Users Posts: 11,131 ✭✭✭✭Say my name


    jaymla627 wrote: »
    Depends on your county council, department wont bother you at the minute anyway once you go off the radar, i.e dont submit any information re land farmed

    You'll be snookered by the bord bia inspection eventually. Every year it's getting more onerous. It's meal dockets they look for now. Next year it'll be fertilizer records, carbon audit aside.

    The last inspection I had they need to know about your watercourses.
    Inspection time has increased too from an hour at the very start to now just over three hours.
    Other than bord bia it only takes a phone call from some erroneous neighbour with a grudge to get you landed with a council inspection.

    Edited: to say BB also need to know how many acres you farm in the latest inspection.


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    #7206
    Birdnuts
    Registered Users Posts: 9,645 ✭✭✭Birdnuts


    alps wrote: »
    Too many farmers couldn't give a damn.....


    Simple as this now....those without the slurry storage, who blacken ground mid winter, who constantly moan that regulations are only for eejits..

    Well, they'll cost us all plenty now...

    Yes - I think those in the industry with a bit of commonsense know that the sight of slurry tankers going full blooded over land in late autumn/early winter is a pretty toxic image at every level that does not go unnoticed by the non-farming community, especcially this year and its relentless late autumnal downpours. As others have mentioned on this thread - the days of derogations and indulgences on such issues are coming to an end.


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    #7207
    Say my name
    Registered Users Posts: 11,131 ✭✭✭✭Say my name


    Birdnuts wrote: »
    Yes - I think those in the industry with a bit of commonsense know that the sight of slurry tankers going full blooded over land in late autumn/early winter is a pretty toxic image at every level that does not go unnoticed by the non-farming community, especcially this year and its relentless late autumnal downpours. As others have mentioned on this thread - the days of derogations and indulgences on such issues are coming to an end.

    The pity is it's the ones in derogation that are currently subject to the most inspections that are most likely the most compliant.

    It's the farms that as stated above that receive no bps that get no inspections that feel they'll be no consequences that should be looked at. I'm saying that as I know a few of those in my locality where anything could go.


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    #7208
    whelan2
    Registered Users Posts: 29,148 ✭✭✭✭whelan2


    When I ring our local county council now to tell them their sewerage line is overflowing into the river they tell me it's irish water I should be ringing. In fairness it hasnt happened in a while but I can never understand how they dont realise that the sewerage isn't coming to the plant anymore


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    #7209
    alps
    Registered Users Posts: 4,941 ✭✭✭alps


    Birdnuts wrote: »
    Yes - I think those in the industry with a bit of commonsense know that the sight of slurry tankers going full blooded over land in late autumn/early winter is a pretty toxic image at every level that does not go unnoticed by the non-farming community, especcially this year and its relentless late autumnal downpours. As others have mentioned on this thread - the days of derogations and indulgences on such issues are coming to an end.

    Well it certainly doesn't go unnoticed by the river..

    I'll pull you up on derogation though...ive seen the map of the special concern catchements, and it is in no way related to the map of derogation farms.

    Derogation farms have on going inspections, and have to at the very least sign a declaration that the required slurry storage is in place. Derogation does not automatically equal problem, I'd argue quiet the opposite, and until all farms are subject to the same inspection protocol, we will have guys spreading and leaking chyte goodo..

    Groundwater is near perfect, that's what would have been more at risk from derogation farms.

    The problem is runoff from slurry spreading at the wrong time, from dirty yard and roadway runoff and from la k of slurry storage..


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    #7210
    whelan2
    Registered Users Posts: 29,148 ✭✭✭✭whelan2


    It's like sticking the 2 fingers up to the people who do have things in order. Wet ground here so more or less 6 months slurry storage needed. Never get to spread 15th January as ground is always too wet


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    #7211
    yosemitesam1
    Registered Users Posts: 2,946 ✭✭✭yosemitesam1


    alps wrote: »
    Well it certainly doesn't go unnoticed by the river..

    I'll pull you up on derogation though...ive seen the map of the special concern catchements, and it is in no way related to the map of derogation farms.

    Derogation farms have on going inspections, and have to at the very least sign a declaration that the required slurry storage is in place. Derogation does not automatically equal problem, I'd argue quiet the opposite, and until all farms are subject to the same inspection protocol, we will have guys spreading and leaking chyte goodo..

    Groundwater is near perfect, that's what would have been more at risk from derogation farms.

    The problem is runoff from slurry spreading at the wrong time, from dirty yard and roadway runoff and from la k of slurry storage..

    It's worth having a look at the full report. There's a lot of different maps in it.

    There's also the time lag of 5-10 years before water quality responds to changes in management that is likely to start showing as we've upped n usage by over 50,000t Inthe last 5 years


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    #7212
    straight
    Registered Users Posts: 4,571 ✭✭✭straight


    alps wrote: »
    Too many farmers couldn't give a damn.....


    Simple as this now....those without the slurry storage, who blacken ground mid winter, who constantly moan that regulations are only for eejits..

    Well, they'll cost us all plenty now...

    Fella near us has doubled up his cow numbers with feck all slurry storage. He's out with the rain gun twice a week every week.


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    #7213
    straight
    Registered Users Posts: 4,571 ✭✭✭straight


    Gawddawggonnit wrote: »
    One of the lads just found a camera in one of the chicken houses. There’s no way of entry without a key and the key is well hidden outside. Whoever placed the camera must’ve hidden in the bushes and waited to see where the key is hidden...

    Be careful folks, there are people out there that want to nail agriculture.


    Some balm pots out there

    https://bigthink.com/technology-innovation/livestock-disruption?utm_medium=Social&utm_source=Facebook#Echobox=1575747126


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    #7214
    alps
    Registered Users Posts: 4,941 ✭✭✭alps


    yosemitesam1 wrote: »
    It's worth having a look at the full report. There's a lot of different maps in it.

    There's also the time lag of 5-10 years before water quality responds to changes in management that is likely to start showing as we've upped n usage by over 50,000t Inthe last 5 years

    If it's not in the groundwater, then that not the route to the rivers. It leaves runoff to be the source, and the result from runoff is damn near immediate.


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    #7215
    mahoney_j
    Registered Users Posts: 11,092 ✭✭✭✭mahoney_j


    straight wrote: »
    Fella near us has doubled up his cow numbers with feck all slurry storage. He's out with the rain gun twice a week every week.

    Well if u listened to the mantra from lots of farmers for last few years it was load on cows first then worry about everything else ,lads were in such a rush to expand and keep up with Johnny next door


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    #7216
    yosemitesam1
    Registered Users Posts: 2,946 ✭✭✭yosemitesam1


    alps wrote: »
    If it's not in the groundwater, then that's not the route to the rivers. It leaves runoff to be the source, and the result from runoff is damn near immediate.

    There's what moves into rivers from runoff, surface soils, and multiple depths below that. The deeper you go, the slower things change (for good and bad). When nitrates was introduced there was a couple of years after that before there was any sign of improvements and it certainly looks like the effects of more cows in the south east is starting to cause changes.


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    #7217
    Millionaire only not
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 1,625 ✭✭✭Millionaire only not


    Kerry have forward contract out for today only 32.4 cents - 20% of your milk next year summer months !
    Would u take it ?


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    #7218
    mahoney_j
    Registered Users Posts: 11,092 ✭✭✭✭mahoney_j


    Millionaire only not wrote: »
    Kerry have forward contract out for today only 32.4 cents - 20% of your milk next year summer months !
    Would u take it ?

    I’d normally jump at an offer like that but if only a 1 year scheme ,no .milk base price for next year will be that and possibly more for full 12 months of 2020.if over 2 years I would fix tho


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    #7219
    awaywithyou
    Registered Users Posts: 1,911 ✭✭✭awaywithyou


    this may have been discussed elsewhere.... i was just looking at some pics of a river in New Zealand bursting its banks... its summertime over there.... have they had alot of rain etc... was this just a freak event does anyone know?


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    #7220
    Water John
    Registered Users Posts: 21,144 ✭✭✭✭Water John


    Knew there had been some flooding in Wellington.
    Some pics on this link;
    https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/118070384/weather-relief-allowing-crews-a-good-window-to-clear-si-highway-blockages

    Looks like a good bit of damage.


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    #7221
    Sacrolyte
    Registered Users Posts: 851 ✭✭✭Sacrolyte


    See an artical in AGRI land on head locking barriers. Anyone price them lately. Tempted to stick a few in.


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    #7222
    jaymla627
    Registered Users Posts: 6,485 ✭✭✭jaymla627


    So paddy Irisman has to have clover included in any grass mixes he uses for reseeding under derogation rules but then he has to go and spray it off and kill the clover he's just sown as the EU is banning clover safe sprays from October 2020, that's another einstein moment from our public sector


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    #7223
    Water John
    Registered Users Posts: 21,144 ✭✭✭✭Water John


    What are you spraying a reseed for? Just graze it with light stock.


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    #7224
    jaymla627
    Registered Users Posts: 6,485 ✭✭✭jaymla627


    Water John wrote: »
    What are you spraying a reseed for? Just graze it with light stock.

    Have ground rented of a lad that done the above, on 40 acres after reseeding, plagued with docks now, and has to be sprayed twice yearly, batsh*t crazy not spraying a reseed if their is dock seedlings and weeds coming into it


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    #7225
    mahoney_j
    Registered Users Posts: 11,092 ✭✭✭✭mahoney_j


    jaymla627 wrote: »
    So paddy Irisman has to have clover included in any grass mixes he uses for reseeding under derogation rules but then he has to go and spray it off and kill the clover he's just sown as the EU is banning clover safe sprays from October 2020, that's another einstein moment from our public sector

    There’s a day comming when we as farmers will just have to say enough is enough re all these extra nitrates regulations etc and decisions made by pen pushers which are going to have a negative effect on how we farm and make a living ,at a presentation by a bord via rep this week we were given a fancy presentation on all the great work they do ,how our clean grass fed image is such a bonus when they go to sell products and market it also the extras constantly been added to bord bia audits .were doing all the work taking all these new things on board but for frig all extra return .times like now we need a strong committed ifa,sadly it’s not there but after these elections I hope there’s a big change


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    #7226
    mahoney_j
    Registered Users Posts: 11,092 ✭✭✭✭mahoney_j


    Water John wrote: »
    What are you spraying a reseed for? Just graze it with light stock.

    Post emergence spray arguably more important than pre,


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    #7227
    Water John
    Registered Users Posts: 21,144 ✭✭✭✭Water John


    Doing a false/stale seedbed will get rid of most of the weeds.


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    #7228
    jaymla627
    Registered Users Posts: 6,485 ✭✭✭jaymla627


    mahoney_j wrote: »
    There’s a day comming when we as farmers will just have to say enough is enough re all these extra nitrates regulations etc and decisions made by pen pushers which are going to have a negative effect on how we farm and make a living ,at a presentation by a bord via rep this week we were given a fancy presentation on all the great work they do ,how our clean grass fed image is such a bonus when they go to sell products and market it also the extras constantly been added to bord bia audits .were doing all the work taking all these new things on board but for frig all extra return .times like now we need a strong committed ifa,sadly it’s not there but after these elections I hope there’s a big change

    Not going to spend another euro here on complying with ever lengthening regulations, I probably need to put another 100k here to tighten the thing up, slurry storage wise etc but in all likelihood, with the stroke of a pen even if I done the above, in a year our twos time, something else will be brought in and your non-compliant again overnight, our allowable stocking rates will be cut....
    Lads cant be expected to mortgage farms in some cases to comply with nitrates and have the rug pulled out from then at the whims of politicians and public servants


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    #7229
    alps
    Registered Users Posts: 4,941 ✭✭✭alps


    mahoney_j wrote: »
    There’s a day comming when we as farmers will just have to say enough is enough re all these extra nitrates regulations etc and decisions made by pen pushers which are going to have a negative effect on how we farm and make a living ,at a presentation by a bord via rep this week we were given a fancy presentation on all the great work they do ,how our clean grass fed image is such a bonus when they go to sell products and market it also the extras constantly been added to bord bia audits .were doing all the work taking all these new things on board but for frig all extra return .times like now we need a strong committed ifa,sadly it’s not there but after these elections I hope there’s a big change

    Did anyone push the bord Bia rep on product price, if they actually achieve it ( which they do with butter anyway) and where the money disappears to before it gets back to us..?


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    #7230
    Panch18
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,471 ✭✭✭Panch18


    mahoney_j wrote: »
    There’s a day comming when we as farmers will just have to say enough is enough re all these extra nitrates regulations etc and decisions made by pen pushers which are going to have a negative effect on how we farm and make a living ,at a presentation by a bord via rep this week we were given a fancy presentation on all the great work they do ,how our clean grass fed image is such a bonus when they go to sell products and market it also the extras constantly been added to bord bia audits .were doing all the work taking all these new things on board but for frig all extra return .times like now we need a strong committed ifa,sadly it’s not there but after these elections I hope there’s a big change

    I think the day is here J

    If we leave it much long to stand and fight it will be too late. The anti farming agenda already has far too much air time and power. If we don’t act soon it’ll be over before we start


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    #7231
    Gawddawggonnit
    Registered Users Posts: 3,259 ✭✭✭Gawddawggonnit


    Power outages from 2am. Biblical rain with high winds and thunderstorms.
    One of the generators was hard to get going because it kept blowing fuses, then it worked away the finest.
    I must put it on the list to give them a run every few months.


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