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House guests. Is this unreasonable?

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    #62
    El_Duderino 09
    Registered Users Posts: 20,009 ✭✭✭✭El_Duderino 09


    mrslancaster wrote: »
    Not up to the flatmate to decide if the OP can have guests unless there's something in the lease imo. Whatever happened to a bit of give and take when sharing? If OP's guests are tourists they will most likely be out all day anyway. If the flatmate was working at another premises it wouldn't be an issue as she would be gone all day herself.

    as OP said the flatmate usually has the place to herself and doesn't like the change. Its a few days and not like it happens every other month.

    Hove and take would mean ASKING if friends can stay. If the answer is yes then great if the answer is no then find other arrangements. The OP didn't do "give and take" they simply told housemate that friends are coming and it doesn't really matter whether you like it or not so no need to discuss it.

    I think anyone would agree that it's right to ask if the friends can stay. So it's implied that the flatmate can say yes or no. Give and take is not telling your flatmate what's happening so get used to it.


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    #63
    SozBbz
    Registered Users Posts: 1,889 ✭✭✭SozBbz


    El_Duderino 09 wrote: »
    Well flat shares work on agreement and mutual respect. If one person starts ignoring the other flatmate's side, then the flatshare is likely to fall apart.

    I'm.not suggesting the OP is doing anything illegal but they're taking a big steamy dump all over the fair play that's involved in sharing a home with someone else.

    First move was to not ask if they could have friends stay for 6 nights (they simply told the flatmate it was happening which isn't reasonable).

    So the flatmate is well within their rights to say they don't want strangers staying in their home and expect their wish to be taken seriously.

    It's not like the other flatmate has had friends stay for similar time frames in the past. There isn't a precedent so they news to work out an agreement. Can't simply tell your flatmate you're having people say for 6/9 nights.

    This response is so dramatic and unnecessary. The OP has otherwise been a good flatmate and her having guests is not unreasonable.

    They both have the right to have occasional guests and that is perfectly normal and acceptable.

    And so what if the flatmate hasnt had guests? Thats fine but it doesnt mean the OP has to abide by the same standards, they're different people.

    If the flatmate wants to live alone and have full control of who comes and goes then she is welcome to pay for that privilege. If she wants to pay less by sharing, then being accommodating of your housemates reasonable requests (and 3+3 nights worth of guests in a year is not unreasonable).


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    #64
    El_Duderino 09
    Registered Users Posts: 20,009 ✭✭✭✭El_Duderino 09


    ginandtonicsky wrote: »
    Well, no. I agree I approached it wrong and I've apologised for that. I've also assured her that we'll be out and about doing touristy things most of the day, but will be back some evenings and may use the garden or sitting room during those times.

    But they're arriving tomorrow and will be staying with me as planned.

    To answer another question, yes she does use the communal space for working from home, as well as most evenings and weekends. She's a nice person and I get on well with her in general, so apologising was important here for how I went about this. But equally I'm not about to back down on plans out of a sense of duty or obligation when she gets a good run of the place on a day to day basis and is inconvenienced by a temporary change to that routine.

    I don't think you intended to be out of order...but you were. You told your flatmate your friends are coming for 6/9 days and she doesn't have any choice in the matter. I think you owed her an apology so fair play for that.

    And now you're going to ignore your flatmate and brazen it out. You've altered the flatmate relationship. Professional flatshares are different from student flatshares. You need to work out the relationship and the ground rules for a houseshare. If you proposed the rules that cover what you've done it would be as follows :

    I can have people come for 6/9 nights and we'll be using the communal sitting room to sleep and you can't refuse. Not a great rule.

    I don't think you intended to do anything out of order, and your flatmate night not have cared one way or the other. But the flatmate should have the right to simply say "no" but you didn't ask them.


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    #65
    El_Duderino 09
    Registered Users Posts: 20,009 ✭✭✭✭El_Duderino 09


    SozBbz wrote: »
    This response is so dramatic and unnecessary. The OP has otherwise been a good flatmate and her having guests is not unreasonable.

    They both have the right to have occasional guests and that is perfectly normal and acceptable.

    And so what if the flatmate hasnt had guests? Thats fine but it doesnt mean the OP has to abide by the same standards, they're different people.

    If the flatmate wants to live alone and have full control of who comes and goes then she is welcome to pay for that privilege. If she wants to pay less by sharing, then being accommodating of your housemates reasonable requests (and 3+3 nights worth of guests in a year is not unreasonable).

    The fact they haven't had guests means they need to discuss it and come to an agreement. Telling your flatmate what's happening is not really fair.

    I don't think my opinion is dramatic. It simply acknowledges the flatmate's right to say "no". They weren't asked if it was OK so they didn't have a chance to say yes or no.


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    #66
    TequilaMockingBird
    Registered Users Posts: 4,392 ✭✭✭TequilaMockingBird


    Your mind seems to be made up but my God I would go bat**** if I was the housemate! It's her home! And her workplace. Your place is too small for guests.


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    #67
    red petal
    Registered Users Posts: 132 ✭✭red petal


    I know it's not a position most people would choose if they had other options, but I am so glad I do not house share. I would hate this kind of restriction that the OP has and the discomfort from the OP's housemate.

    Personally, if I lived in a small shared accommodation, I would not offer to host people because there is not enough room. Also, if I was spending money on flights to travel, I would not impose on someone else's small shared space. I would ensure I have enough money to enjoy a holiday nicely. Each to their own I suppose but I don't see the logic in it.


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    #68
    bucketybuck
    Registered Users Posts: 18,179 ✭✭✭✭bucketybuck


    SozBbz wrote: »
    They both have the right to have occasional guests and that is perfectly normal and acceptable.

    There is a huge difference between simply having guests over, and having two extra people cram into a 2 bed flat for 9 days. Anybody passing that off as just "guests" is minimising the issue.

    And I fail to see what relevance there is to the OP being away at other times? How does that matter? I'd say it probably doesn't affect the flatmate whether you are there or not most weeks, she still does her work and sleeps in her bed the same way. This on the other hand absolutely does affect her and change her routines.

    If I was the flatmate I would be raging. I might suck it up and play nice to keep the peace but I'd definitely be pissed that you invited two strangers to pile into the flat for that length of time. A day or two, fine, but over a week? Thats bull****.


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    #69
    o1s1n
    Registered Users Posts: 34,541 ✭✭✭✭o1s1n
    Master of the Universe


    Something you might not have thought of OP, but what's going to happen with the bills this month?

    Will you be paying extra or will your room mate be paying for your guests showers/cooking/electronics charging/bins etc?

    Might help out somewhat if you approach her and mention that you'll be paying X extra this month to cover the above.


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    #70
    zapper55
    Registered Users Posts: 684 ✭✭✭zapper55


    Apart from 3 weeks notice not being good enough, maybe she's been mulling over it and only had the opportunity to say it in person this week. You.mentioned that you have been all over the place with work etc, maybe she has to.

    If I was her I would be so pissed off that I'd be reconsidering living with you. You may say that is extreme but I would find the 6 night arrangement to be far too much.

    The only thing that would help would be a reassurance that in the future houseguests staying for more than one night must be agreed in advance.


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    #71
    El_Duderino 09
    Registered Users Posts: 20,009 ✭✭✭✭El_Duderino 09


    red petal wrote: »
    I know it's not a position most people would choose if they had other options, but I am so glad I do not house share. I would hate this kind of restriction that the OP has and the discomfort from the OP's housemate.

    Personally, if I lived in a small shared accommodation, I would not offer to host people because there is not enough room. Also, if I was spending money on flights to travel, I would not impose on someone else's small shared space. I would ensure I have enough money to enjoy a holiday nicely. Each to their own I suppose but I don't see the logic in it.

    You didn't mention asking the flatmate if they mind if you have people stay. They might not mind or might see it as normal give and take. They might equally say they're not comfortable with it and refuse your request.


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    #72
    petros1980
    Registered Users Posts: 134 ✭✭petros1980


    The replies to this are absolutely mental - I wouldn't pass any heed to most of them. Glad I never had to share a house with some of them :)

    The poor flatmate! - who by the sounds of it has use of the living room as her work area for most of the time. Does she pay extra rent for that? What if the OP decided to start watching TV in the living room 24-7....playing music in the living etc. Point is the flatmate sounds like she has a great deal in this house share, not the poor unfortunate some of the replies on this thread make out..


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    #73
    Abba987
    Registered Users Posts: 312 ✭✭Abba987


    Id be rightly pissed and I also wouldn't impose on someone else like that

    You keep saying that your away a lot but that's your business and not her fault. She's not putting you out of the flat on a regular basis. That argument is getting annoying.

    It's too much and it was landed on her with little or no say or notice.


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    #74
    El_Duderino 09
    Registered Users Posts: 20,009 ✭✭✭✭El_Duderino 09


    petros1980 wrote: »
    The replies to this are absolutely mental - I wouldn't pass any heed to most of them. Glad I never had to share a house with some of them :)

    The poor flatmate! - who by the sounds of it has use of the living room as her work area for most of the time. Does she pay extra rent for that? What if the OP decided to start watching TV in the living room 24-7....playing music in the living etc. Point is the flatmate sounds like she has a great deal in this house share, not the poor unfortunate some of the replies on this thread make out..

    The flatmate does sound to have a good deal. That's the precedent now and it means they need to agree changes to the status quo.

    Simply deciding to the flatmate has a good deal so they should suck it up without a discussion, is out of order.


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    #75
    ginandtonicsky
    Closed Accounts Posts: 710 ✭✭✭ginandtonicsky


    Abba987 wrote: »
    You keep saying that your away a lot but that's your business and not her fault. She's not putting you out of the flat on a regular basis.

    Nor am I? It's my first house-guest situation in over a year. She benefits greatly from my being away from the flat a lot and I don't judge her for it, I'd love it too. She also benefits greatly from having the option to work from home 5 days a week because I work in the city and am gone 12+ hours a day.

    Bills are covering by the rent at a fixed cost so that's a non-issue.


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    #76
    partyguinness
    Registered Users Posts: 8,207 ✭✭✭partyguinness


    Antares35 wrote: »
    I had "friends" over from the States a while ago. They were stopping off in Ireland before travelling the rest of Europe. I thought it would be nice to allow them to stay as we've a spare room en suite. Save them on pricey hotel etc. So, that was grand. Got in a few bits and pieces to welcome them - few beers, some stuff for Irish breakfast, snacks etc. Picked them up from the airport and we planned to spend two days together. I had time off so took the opportunity to show then some nice scenic spots and traditional Irish venues for food, drink etc. Had to fill up the car. Fair few taxis around as we had drinks on both nights. Brought them back to the airport when they departed. They literally did not put their hands in their pockets once. Initially I thought it a bit odd but shrugged it off but by the end, I just couldn't believe them. No offer to even put a bit of petrol in the car. On the second night, they got home before us (there were five of us and partner and I had to wait for second taxi). When I got home, they had lashed into the wine etc. On the last night, we (4 of us including my partner) got a taxi home, and when we pulled up to the driveway I made a point of sitting after the meter was tallied and waited and waited... until it got really awkward and my partner paid. I juts couldn't believe them. On top of all that they moaned and groaned about wifi etc. and had the heating and hot water on constantly. Never again. Such stingebags. I didnt want payment from them but to not even pay their share of a taxi or meal/ drinks. I think our friendship has run it's course!


    Beware OP..taken from the Stingey Thread


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    #77
    percy212
    Registered Users Posts: 1,077 ✭✭✭percy212


    I think your housemate is anxious about the change to the apartment's normal peaceful routine. I also think it's not unreasonable for you to have guests. The break in the middle of their trip makes it very tolerable. Personally I would think "oh well, I do share this place, I suppose I will just go to a cafe to work this week".

    Just put her mind at ease by assuring her they will be out and about doing tourist things. Assure her they will not make a mess and they will cover the cost of the cleaner for this month as a gesture, along with leaving her a nice bottle of wine or some flowers etc. They must not hog the bathroom. Most important. They must be quiet and they must be generous. You will need to monitor the situation :) A gift voucher for a relaxing massage might go down well.

    Guests are a pain for all concerned, but it's a fact of life. It happens. She will cope.


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    #78
    CelticRambler
    Registered Users Posts: 6,720 ✭✭✭CelticRambler


    ginandtonicsky wrote: »
    I've told her I'll keep her privy to my plans day by day so she's aware of our movements.

    :eek: Don't do that! Decide right now what time you're all going to be gone out of the house and what time (at the earliest) you'll be back in the evenings, and stick to the same hours every day. The last thing you want to be doing is adding to her stress by not telling her till the last minute what ye're up to. You should have already learnt that lesson from the "three weeks notice" mistake! :pac:

    Otherwise, the only aspect of the arrangement that I'd have a problem with is you using communal space as your bedroom, even for just three days on the trot. Regardless of how small the bedroom is, I think you should find a way to get the three of you in there. If that means shifting a table or bookcase out into the sitting room, use that as a way to show your housemate that you're making a effort to not invade her space any more than absolutely necessary.


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    #79
    partyguinness
    Registered Users Posts: 8,207 ✭✭✭partyguinness


    TBH OP...I would echo the other posters. I live in England too and I know how precious and insular they can be but 6 days is too much.

    I would feel bad doing this to my life long best friends let alone a strange flatmate in another country.

    TBH I wouldn't do it. 2-3 nights at the absolute max.


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    #80
    elefant
    Registered Users Posts: 4,649 ✭✭✭elefant


    It's a bit of a pain to have your living room space impacted on for 6 days over a 2 week period (things like having to be quiet heading out to work in the morning as someone is asleep on the couch, things being inevitably messier while guests are staying temporarily etc.), but it wouldn't bother me personally too much. I've lived in numerous house shares, with many different housemates, and I don't think any of them would've kicked up a major fuss. It's a bit annoying, but you'd also be hoping they'd be sound if you were having friends over at some point in the future too. To me, it's part and parcel of living with someone in a big, expensive city like London.

    It's all down to personality, though. I can imagine what would mildly irritate me could seem really unreasonable to others.


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    #81
    mrslancaster
    Registered Users Posts: 1,784 ✭✭✭mrslancaster


    None of the posts I have read here make any reference to the fact that the flatmate has 'invaded' the communal space by turning their shared flat into her personal work space.

    OP says it is used by her flatmate as a workplace every day and most evenings and OP spends zero time there.

    Now OP wants to spend a few hours in the living room (from 11pm on) during the days she has guests staying with her and the flatmate is feeling put out?


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    #82
    partyguinness
    Registered Users Posts: 8,207 ✭✭✭partyguinness


    mrslancaster wrote: »
    None of the posts I have read here make any reference to the fact that the flatmate has 'invaded' the communal space by turning their shared flat into her personal work space.

    OP says it is used by her flatmate as a workplace every day and most evenings and OP spends zero time there.

    Now OP wants to spend a few hours in the living room (from 11pm on) during the days she has guests staying with her and the flatmate is feeling put out?


    It probably hasnt been mentioned because that is getting petty. It is more about 2 strangers crashing in a small apartment for 6 nights.


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    #83
    kippy
    Registered Users Posts: 18,439 ✭✭✭✭kippy


    Think there's away too much being read into this. Flatmate was told in advance, it's a very temporary arrangement, flatmate gets more use of the flat than the OP in general, relations seem to be pretty good anyway.
    I think you've done all that can be expected. Just get on with it, and buy a nice thank you present afterwards.


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    #84
    SozBbz
    Registered Users Posts: 1,889 ✭✭✭SozBbz


    For all those saying she should has asked rather than told her flat mate..... what if the flatmate had said no? Is it really fair on the OP not to be able to have guests ocasionally? What right does the flatmate have to refuse? They are equal in their tenancy so the OPs right to guests is just as valid as the flatmates right to say no. So you're left with an impasse.

    OP all you can do is take action to minimise the impact which it sounds like you intend to do, thank her for her patience and perhaps get her a nice gift for being accomodating after the fact. Don't let them have the run of the place (ie they should not be there if the OP is not there) and be mindful of her routine and use of the bathroom/kitchen or other shared spaces.

    Back in my housesharing days (and I probably shared wtih more than a dozen different individuals over the years, ) no one was ever refused guests. I think only one girl ever asked as she'd a friend coming for a whole week, but it was a courtesy ask really. I wouldnt have said no, and if I had done, I'd have expected her to be pissed off with me. I probably found the thought of it annoying at the time but when she was there I hardly saw the pair of them, so the reality was fine because on the whole my housemate was a nice considerate person and I was happy to live with her.

    As I said, if you want splendid isolation, then pay for it and rent a one bed by yourself.


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    #85
    El_Duderino 09
    Registered Users Posts: 20,009 ✭✭✭✭El_Duderino 09


    mrslancaster wrote: »
    None of the posts I have read here make any reference to the fact that the flatmate has 'invaded' the communal space by turning their shared flat into her personal work space.

    OP says it is used by her flatmate as a workplace every day and most evenings and OP spends zero time there.

    Now OP wants to spend a few hours in the living room (from 11pm on) during the days she has guests staying with her and the flatmate is feeling put out?

    I mentioned it. It's a good deal for the flatmate and it's the status quo. That means the OP would need to discuss it with flatmate if they want to change things for 6/9 days.


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    #86
    Gimme A Pound
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,482 ✭✭✭Gimme A Pound


    petros1980 wrote: »
    The replies to this are absolutely mental - I wouldn't pass any heed to most of them. Glad I never had to share a house with some of them :)

    The poor flatmate! - who by the sounds of it has use of the living room as her work area for most of the time. Does she pay extra rent for that? What if the OP decided to start watching TV in the living room 24-7....playing music in the living etc. Point is the flatmate sounds like she has a great deal in this house share, not the poor unfortunate some of the replies on this thread make out..
    I know. Oddball central. I wouldn't like it but you've got to get over it and compromise in accommodation sharing. It's a one-off.

    There would be more support for someone having their boyfriend or girlfriend staying every second night on a permanent basis.


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    #87
    Antares35
    Registered Users Posts: 3,845 ✭✭✭Antares35


    If it were me and especially if I worked from home I would not be impressed.


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    #88
    kippy
    Registered Users Posts: 18,439 ✭✭✭✭kippy


    Antares35 wrote: »
    If it were me and especially if I worked from home I would not be impressed.

    Then you'd need to find a better arrangement that facilitated your working from home, particularly if you could not facilitate the OP's arrangement for a few days in the year.


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    #89
    worded
    Registered Users Posts: 4,540 ✭✭✭worded


    The old saying ...Guests are like fish, they begin to smell after three days ....


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    #90
    SozBbz
    Registered Users Posts: 1,889 ✭✭✭SozBbz


    Antares35 wrote: »
    If it were me and especially if I worked from home I would not be impressed.

    The OP hasnt indicated that her flatmate pays any extra to work from home. If they're paying the same rate then I don't see why one party deciding to work from home would therefore mean that their equal tenant could then not have guests.


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    #91
    El_Duderino 09
    Registered Users Posts: 20,009 ✭✭✭✭El_Duderino 09


    SozBbz wrote: »
    For all those saying she should has asked rather than told her flat mate..... what if the flatmate had said no? Is it really fair on the OP not to be able to have guests ocasionally? What right does the flatmate have to refuse? They are equal in their tenancy so the OPs right to guests is just as valid as the flatmates right to say no. So you're left with an impasse.

    You're not at an impasse if the flatmate says no. If the flatmate says no then the answer is no so the friends need to find other accommodation.
    SozBbz wrote: »

    Back in my housesharing days (and I probably shared wtih more than a dozen different individuals over the years, ) no one was ever refused guests. I think only one girl ever asked as she'd a friend coming for a whole week, but it was a courtesy ask really. I wouldnt have said no, and if I had done, I'd have expected her to be pissed off with me. I probably found the thought of it annoying at the time but when she was there I hardly saw the pair of them, so the reality was fine because on the whole my housemate was a nice considerate person and I was happy to live with her.

    Back in your house share data you had an understanding with your house mates that having friends stay from time to time was fine. The OP says this is the first time it's come up so there isn't the same understanding.

    If anything the precedent is set because in over a year this situation hadn't arisen. so the obvious fair thing to do is ASK if friends can stay. Asking presupposes a yes or no answer and you have to be prepared for either answer.

    Chances are most people would accommodate if they are asked. It's very different to just tell your flatmate what's happening and be surprised if they're not OK with it.

    I've shared houses and as a student it was fine to have someone over for a night. If you were having someone stay a few days it was normal to ask/announce it was happening because it was just a house. But as I went to professional house share everyone was much more protective of their home environment. If someone asked if they books have people stay I would definitely tell them if I wasn't happy with it because it's my home.

    So the housemate saying no isn't a stalemate, it's a veto. As it happens I was always fine with people staying and worked out fine. But if I/they had said no then I'd expect that to be the end of it.


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