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Fiat Chrysler and Peugeot to merge

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    #92
    beauf
    Closed Accounts Posts: 22,651 ✭✭✭✭beauf


    RobAMerc wrote: »
    yes, but built from the ground up as an EV. Next gen

    I was more thinking of the market. But I know many petrol heads have no interest in the EVs but I like all the tech. Even city cars, Kei car, etc.


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    #93
    beauf
    Closed Accounts Posts: 22,651 ✭✭✭✭beauf


    ongarite wrote: »
    Anyway back to this merger.
    They say they have significant spare factory capacity and will look to cut costs.

    Going to be very messy and political in deciding which factories get shut down.
    French, German, UK & Italian governments/unions will want to keep their factories/jobs.

    Interesting times ahead. I've lost track of how they were all doing globally.


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    #94
    liamog
    Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators, Regional East Moderators Posts: 7,813 Mod ✭✭✭✭liamog


    It's hard to see how Peugeot, Citroen, Opel and Fiat differentiate themselves. I can imagine Opel being the long term loser as it's the only part without a nationalist interest to back it up.


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    #95
    ongarite
    Registered Users Posts: 8,206 ✭✭✭ongarite


    beauf wrote: »
    Interesting times ahead. I've lost track of how they were all doing globally.

    Pre COVID PSA were doing very well financially with one of the highest margins among all car manufacturers.


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    #96
    road_high
    Registered Users Posts: 19,388 ✭✭✭✭road_high


    ongarite wrote: »
    Anyway back to this merger.
    They say they have significant spare factory capacity and will look to cut costs.

    Going to be very messy and political in deciding which factories get shut down.
    French, German, UK & Italian governments/unions will want to keep their factories/jobs.

    Have to say in Europe the PSA Peugeot plants look the safest bets- producing f the most desirable , profitable cars of the new group and biggest scale. Some of the Fiat Italy plants are running at ridiculously under capacity. Plant in Poland will probably be ok.
    Former GM Opel plants have to look the ropiest- a lot of that production can just be produced at current PSA plants and already is being based on PSA platforms


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    #97
    road_high
    Registered Users Posts: 19,388 ✭✭✭✭road_high


    ongarite wrote: »
    Pre COVID PSA were doing very well financially with one of the highest margins among all car manufacturers.

    Fiat Chrysler is a mixed bag- Jeep Ram is very profitable. I think Dodge is too.
    The other brands all have problems, especially Chrysler itself


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    #98
    beauf
    Closed Accounts Posts: 22,651 ✭✭✭✭beauf


    ongarite wrote: »
    Pre COVID PSA were doing very well financially with one of the highest margins among all car manufacturers.

    Whats in it for them so....


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    #99
    ongarite
    Registered Users Posts: 8,206 ✭✭✭ongarite


    beauf wrote: »
    Whats in it for them so....

    As above, access to US market and profitable Jeep, Dodge brands.


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    #100
    road_high
    Registered Users Posts: 19,388 ✭✭✭✭road_high


    beauf wrote: »
    Whats in it for them so....

    Scale- shared economy of developing new cars and technology


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    #101
    beauf
    Closed Accounts Posts: 22,651 ✭✭✭✭beauf


    But didn't that fail for Fiat even with the 500. They didn't have any thing to bring to the market after that.

    I'll go back read it that link...


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    #102
    liamog
    Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators, Regional East Moderators Posts: 7,813 Mod ✭✭✭✭liamog


    Regulatory pressure means a lot of money is being spent on development costs at the moment, so there is a lot of sense in co-operation and mergers.
    It's widely expected that the FCA will use the PSA platforms for small and medium cars, which should allow PSA to recover the development costs quicker.

    FCA had to pool with Tesla to reach compliance, basically means they gave Tesla hundreds of millions with nothing to return. Groupe PSA hit their targets and reportedly will do so as the combined entity.


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    #103
    road_high
    Registered Users Posts: 19,388 ✭✭✭✭road_high


    beauf wrote: »
    But didn't that fail for Fiat even with the 500. They didn't have any thing to bring to the market after that.

    I'll go back read it that link...

    The 500 still sells very well. Reckon it’s a bit of a cash cow for them.
    The other 500 versions like the L and X have been disappointing style wise though


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    #104
    beauf
    Closed Accounts Posts: 22,651 ✭✭✭✭beauf


    Not in the US.

    https://www.goodcarbadcar.net/fiat-500-sales-figures/

    https://www.google.com/search?q=US+Sales+of+Fiat+500&oq=US+Sales+of+Fiat+500&aqs=chrome..69i57j33i22i29i30l5.4863j0j7&sourceid=chrome&ie=UTF-8

    Can't link to articles. They are all ad blocked.


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    #105
    Hellrazer
    Moderators, Arts Moderators, Recreation & Hobbies Moderators Posts: 10,588 Mod ✭✭✭✭Hellrazer


    road_high wrote: »
    The 500 still sells very well. Reckon it’s a bit of a cash cow for them.
    The other 500 versions like the L and X have been disappointing style wise though

    The 500X is / was a fantastic car.
    I had one for a while and loved it. The problem with Fiat is they gave up on Ireland and priced themselves out of the market.

    The Tipo is another good car from Fiat and I preferred it to the likes of Focus, Hyundai I30, Kias etc.

    Again priced way too expensive for Ireland.

    I remember being at the launch of the Tipo and it was going to be the car that took the Focus crown in the mid sector range. Brilliant until I heard the price and knew they were going to to it all wrong.


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    #106
    beauf
    Closed Accounts Posts: 22,651 ✭✭✭✭beauf


    In fairness it not just price that causing the fall in sales. The fiat 500 sold well at the start.


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    #107
    road_high
    Registered Users Posts: 19,388 ✭✭✭✭road_high


    Hellrazer wrote: »
    The 500X is / was a fantastic car.
    I had one for a while and loved it. The problem with Fiat is they gave up on Ireland and priced themselves out of the market.

    The Tipo is another good car from Fiat and I preferred it to the likes of Focus, Hyundai I30, Kias etc.

    Again priced way too expensive for Ireland.

    I remember being at the launch of the Tipo and it was going to be the car that took the Focus crown in the mid sector range. Brilliant until I heard the price and knew they were going to to it all wrong.

    Yea I read some guy from Fiat lamenting a while back that the 500x is exactly the kind of car that’s selling well in Ireland these days which is true but with no dealers or marketing no one knows about it. Price needs a few grand lobbed off it but don’t think it was that off the mark price wise


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    #108
    colm_mcm
    Registered Users Posts: 73,387 ✭✭✭✭colm_mcm


    I wonder will distribution of Fiat in Ireland be changed post merger ?


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    #109
    Zubeneschamali
    Registered Users Posts: 16,686 ✭✭✭✭Zubeneschamali


    colm_mcm wrote: »
    I wonder will distribution of Fiat in Ireland be changed post merger ?

    I wonder will they bother making right hand drive models anymore.


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    #110
    L1011
    Moderators, Business & Finance Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 67,816 Mod ✭✭✭✭L1011


    colm_mcm wrote: »
    I wonder will distribution of Fiat in Ireland be changed post merger ?

    Did wonder about this also - Gowan bought the formerly direct Opel Ireland in 2019 and took back Citroen (they had had it before) from January I think; so PSA not only had one distributor they had actually exited their former direct one.

    Fiat have a direct op going back decades but clearly not shifting much product; I would be surprised if that isn't also sold to Gowan.


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    #111
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 17,728 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    Hellrazer wrote: »
    .............
    I remember being at the launch of the Tipo and it was going to be the car that took the Focus crown in the mid sector range. Brilliant until I heard the price and knew they were going to to it all wrong.

    How much cheaper than a Focus should it have been?


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    #112
    RobAMerc
    Registered Users Posts: 5,862 ✭✭✭RobAMerc


    for all those "petrolheads" who's standard comment on a Fiat thread is "reliability is sh*t" - take a look at this



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    #113
    colm_mcm
    Registered Users Posts: 73,387 ✭✭✭✭colm_mcm


    RobAMerc wrote: »
    for all those "petrolheads" who's standard comment on a Fiat thread is "reliability is sh*t" - take a look at this


    We are 115 posts into this thread and there has been zero criticism of Fiat reliability.


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    #114
    Hellrazer
    Moderators, Arts Moderators, Recreation & Hobbies Moderators Posts: 10,588 Mod ✭✭✭✭Hellrazer


    Augeo wrote: »
    How much cheaper than a Focus should it have been?

    Im talking in relative terms rather than give an exact figure.

    As Fiat were on their knees at the time the talk was that Tipo would have been the saving model and were going to do it by being cheaper than their rivals in order to get people to buy them.

    If Im not mistaken I think they launched more expensive than the equivalent Focus model at the time.

    Fiat were trying to get the Tipo into the car hire companies and fleet companies but once they went in more expensive than the car hire companies core models it didnt work out for them.


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    #115
    road_high
    Registered Users Posts: 19,388 ✭✭✭✭road_high


    Hellrazer wrote: »
    Im talking in relative terms rather than give an exact figure.

    As Fiat were on their knees at the time the talk was that Tipo would have been the saving model and were going to do it by being cheaper than their rivals in order to get people to buy them.

    If Im not mistaken I think they launched more expensive than the equivalent Focus model at the time.

    Fiat were trying to get the Tipo into the car hire companies and fleet companies but once they went in more expensive than the car hire companies core models it didnt work out for them.

    I thought the Tipo was a good bit cheaper when it was launched? €16/17 k type range base spec?
    It’s built in turkey so should benefit from lower costs. I quite like it, has a nice cut to it. Think it’s sold reasonably well in Europe. It could have done a lot better here with support and needed to go head to head with Hyundai and Kia for that market


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    #116
    road_high
    Registered Users Posts: 19,388 ✭✭✭✭road_high


    L1011 wrote: »
    Did wonder about this also - Gowan bought the formerly direct Opel Ireland in 2019 and took back Citroen (they had had it before) from January I think; so PSA not only had one distributor they had actually exited their former direct one.

    Fiat have a direct op going back decades but clearly not shifting much product; I would be surprised if that isn't also sold to Gowan.

    That’s 4 very mainstream middle of the road brands potentially under one roof?
    Peugeot is obviously the strongest one by some way, Citroen has improved things a lot too. Opel and Fiat need massive work


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    #117
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 17,728 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    Hellrazer wrote: »
    .............

    If Im not mistaken I think they launched more expensive than the equivalent Focus model at the time. ........

    I think the Ford start of year offers put the discounted Focus at about 20k which was more or less what a Tipo was at launch. Full RRP of the Focus was a nice few thousand more than a Tipo, ford offers were generous back then iirc
    road_high wrote: »
    I thought the Tipo was a good bit cheaper when it was launched? €16/17 k type range base spec?.........

    Maybe a tad more. Edit €16,500 :)https://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=102102502&postcount=263

    I posted this after having a Tipo and a Focus as rentals in a short space of time........

    https://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=102076565&postcount=227
    Augeo wrote: »
    So, after the Tipo my next rental was a Focus. The ford was oh so much more refined, less engine noise, less wind noise and to use very amateurish car language less tractor ish.

    So I had a look at the ole Ford site, new 171 focus with real deal offers and 171 upgrade packs with 1.5 TDCi 95PS engines....

    Focus Style €20,940
    Focus Zetec €21,940
    Focus Titanium €22,965
    Focus Titanium 4Dr €22,865

    This offer applies to new Focus units which have been ordered with the 171 Upgrade Pack and registered between January 1st – 31st 2017 at participating Ford Dealers only. This offer applies to trade-in vehicles aged up to 10 years which are taxed and insured at time of trade-in. Qualifying vehicles must also have a valid NCT certificate at time of trade in.

    The Tipo in diesel guise can't compete with that.




    Fair enough the 1.6 fiat is more powerful etc but who buying them will care?

    Just to add, I don't really like Ford stuff and I'd definitely consider a Tipo 1.4 t jet or even a diesel auto estate if the need came about. I'd have a fondness for Fiat.


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    #118
    road_high
    Registered Users Posts: 19,388 ✭✭✭✭road_high


    Have to say I would take a Focus over it- just a better, more refined vehicle. Couple of work colleagues had the estate as co cars and they were very good motorway cruisers and well finished. Other colleagues had a Tipo and it felt a lot cheaper to sit in.


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    #119
    road_high
    Registered Users Posts: 19,388 ✭✭✭✭road_high


    Sitting in the back the Tipo had this really cheap plastic black door lining you rarely see anymore!


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    #120
    Hellrazer
    Moderators, Arts Moderators, Recreation & Hobbies Moderators Posts: 10,588 Mod ✭✭✭✭Hellrazer


    Augeo wrote: »
    I think the Ford start of year offers put the discounted Focus at about 20k which was more or less what a Tipo was at launch. Full RRP of the Focus was a nice few thousand more than a Tipo, ford offers were generous back then iirc

    But they made the mistake of launching with the high spec model. I think it was 22 or 24k.
    Even though they had a base 1.4 at 17k. They did the same with the 500x. Instead of launching the cheapest model and trying to encourage people to buy them they launched the more expensive model...Stupid really





    Just to add, I don't really like Ford stuff and I'd definitely consider a Tipo 1.4 t jet or even a diesel auto estate if the need came about. I'd have a fondness for Fiat.


    Id be the same - Ive worked for Ford and Fiat - Ford in the 90s /earlys 2000s when they had less boring models - original Focus, Escorts,Original Mondeo,Puma - I even remember the probe!!!. Worked for Fiat for a good 8 years and I loved their range more than Fords.

    The 500l in a 7 seater was a great car but ugly as fook!!The top spec 500x is a great drive.
    The 500 abarth is just a fun car to drive but so is the 1.4 model.

    We had a 4 wheel drive Panda that always put a smile on face when I drove it.

    And reliability was always well up there - they really didn't give any problems.

    Its a shame to see them going this way and if what PSA have done to Opel happens to Fiat its not going to be good for them.


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    #121
    road_high
    Registered Users Posts: 19,388 ✭✭✭✭road_high


    New 208 based Corsa seems to have been well received, selling well in Europe. The Grandland thing is awful looking, no style whatsoever


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