Fiat Chrysler and Peugeot to merge

Bluefoam

AMKC wrote: »

I disagree with Jeep been mainstream. Maybe in America but here in Europe they are priced as a Premium brand and should be in that bracket.

Also I agree that I would not class Lancia as Premium. Maybe they could make Lancia there sports brand.

Jeep is mainstream in most of the world, it's priced as premium in Europe due to emissions laws... I drove a heavily modified JK and it is mainstream, not premium.

Alfa is the premium sports car. Lancia is the premium luxury brand... Has been so for many years. The yipsilon is the definition of that... A premium small car on the panda platform...

bigroad

It's grand thinking Fiat will do something nice for us but the reality is we are rhd so we will always be limited.

colm_mcm

Bluefoam wrote: »

No... Fiat has style and flair and driving dynamics... Dacia is just cheap.

Fiats should not be like Dacia, I just threw up in my mouth.

Fiat has been a budget brand for most of its existence. It was at its most successful when it undercut the mainstream and worked its magic on basic cheap cars. They can’t just keep doing the 500 indefinitely.

If they can do cheap cars that people actually want, without upsetting their sister brands, then they will thrive, they will never be a mainstream volume seller with an actual product range otherwise.

Bluefoam

colm_mcm wrote: »

Fiat has been a budget brand for most of its existence. It was at its most successful when it undercut the mainstream and worked its magic on basic cheap cars. They can’t just keep doing the 500 indefinitely.

If they can do cheap cars that people actually want, without upsetting their sister brands, then they will thrive, they will never be a mainstream volume seller with an actual product range otherwise.

Fiats may be affordable, but they are still stylish and dynamic. Dacia are just cheap. The two are not comparable.

The Panda is case in point, and affordable small car that is chic and fun and has reasonable driving dynamics...

colm_mcm

The new Panda is a dogs dinner, the entire lineup bar the 500 is far from chic.

This is the lineup when you take the 500 out

Ducato, same since 2006 (15 years old)
Panda, same since 2011 (10 years old) and even then it’s a heavy refresh of a 2003 model
500x (7 years old) A silly faux retro crossover thing that nobody wants
500l (9 years old) this is the furthest thing from being desirable or chic
Tipo (6 years old) Completely missed the mark, only sold in countries where it was heavily discounted

This is the reality of what Fiat have been up to for the last 10 years. None of these cars are known for exceptional driving dynamics, desirability, or any other type of X factor that separates them from other manufacturers.
I used to buy Fiats back when they were a unique product. (Late 90s, early 00s)


I’m not suggesting Fiat should follow Dacias model of deliberately wonky looking cars.

Bluefoam

colm_mcm wrote: »

The new Panda is a dogs dinner, the entire lineup bar the 500 is far from chic.

This is the lineup when you take the 500 out

Ducato, same since 2006 (15 years old)
Panda, same since 2011 (10 years old) and even then it’s a heavy refresh of a 2003 model
500x (7 years old) A silly faux retro crossover thing that nobody wants
500l (9 years old) this is the furthest thing from being desirable or chic
Tipo (6 years old) Completely missed the mark, only sold in countries where it was heavily discounted

This is the reality of what Fiat have been up to for the last 10 years. None of these cars are known for exceptional driving dynamics, desirability, or any other type of X factor that separates them from other manufacturers.


I’m not suggesting Fiat should follow Dacias model of deliberately wonky looking cars.

How many of the above have you driven? You've only commented on their age and your perception... So you'd prefer for fiat to make Dacia clones? Why not just leave that to Dacia?

Fiat are obviously aware of their lack of new platforms... Which is why they've joined forces with someone who has oven ready platforms for them to use...

They've been developing the jeep and ram brands which has proven it's worth... They are highly successful... They have also developed some great platforms for Alfa,... Fiat have suffered in that time. They are aware of the fact and are acting on it. The new 500e is the proof of that.

colm_mcm

Of those ive driven the Panda, normal 500, Tipo, and Ducato.

I have never said they should be building Dacia clones, in fact in I’ve specifically said that they shouldn’t follow Dacias model, but could actually own that sector.

The 500 is a great model, but hopefully they can do a bit more this time and not completely rely on it again. The new 500 is indeed a huge move forward, let’s see if it can sell at the new price point.

GeneHunt

Larbre34 wrote: »

I think we can forget the sacred cows of Italian or American heritage brands. Stellantis is a Dutch corporation looking to make money for its global shareholders.

It will keep and invest in the brands that resonate and will sell globally. To my mind, Lancia is dead outside Italy. As dead as Saab or Pontiac. Its segments are absolutely covered by Alfa and Maserati. Fiat will be the volume maker, Abarth could breath on all three.

DS has no right to exist as a stand alone brand. They are badge engineered Peugeots. Peugeot and Citroën have plenty of heritage building niche and luxury cars to do that again if they want. DS could be a spec, like Vignale etc.

Also Dodge and Chrysler don't need to both exist. Chrysler make three models, two of which are essentially the same car and one of which is a 25 year old E-class with some chrome. In other words, utter shyte boxes.

I couldn't have said it better. Lancia and Chrysler are dead I think.

RandomViewer

If you watch those clips from the 70's and 80's, the streets were full of 127,128 131, those days are long gone, Think there's going to be a big rationalisation of marques, can see that long list get cut to 4 or5

Larbre34

Bluefoam wrote: »

No... Fiat has style and flair and driving dynamics... Dacia is just cheap.

Fiats should not be like Dacia, I just threw up in my mouth.

At the moment, frankly, Fiat WISH they were like Dacia. In other words, selling cars.

I'm over 40 years old. There have been perhaps 4 cars from Fiat in my lifetime that had anything like flair and driving dynamics. Yes they've pioneered some decent small cars, like the Uno and the recent Pandas, but with the possible exception of the 500 Abarth, everything in the last 15 years has been a bucket. (The 124 isn't a Fiat).

Bluefoam

Larbre34 wrote: »

At the moment, frankly, Fiat WISH they were like Dacia.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6hEx-wgrdAw

colm_mcm

The Ducato factory could learn a lot from that video

Arthur Daley

I'd really like to see the old brands survive due to their heritage in the history of the car. But I'd fear for them if they aren't making an impact, and we probably will lose a few by 2030, or the likes of Lancia just remain an Italian luxury special edition.

When Chrysler sold out of Europe in 1978, what became Talbot as well as Simca in France and Commer commercials where all more or less gone within a decade.

AMKC

Bluefoam wrote: »

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6hEx-wgrdAw

That was many years ago. The new Dacia's are much better. The sister has a Sandero and yes the dash is very cheap but its honest, cheap to run and no gimics motoring. The new model that is coming out soon do has had great reviews and is all the car most people will ever need unless they like paying for a badge too or have brand loyalty. Personally if I was in the market for a small car I think I would have a top of the range new Sandero over a 208, Clio, Polo, Yaris, Fiesta etc.

RandomViewer

AMKC wrote: »

That was many years ago. The new Dacia's are much better. The sister has a Sandero and yes the dash is very cheap but its honest, cheap to run and no gimics motoring. The new model that is coming out soon do has had great reviews and is all the car most people will ever need unless they like paying for a badge too or have brand loyalty. Personally if I was in the market for a small car I think I would have a top of the range new Sandero over a 208, Clio, Polo, Yaris, Fiesta etc.

Yaris and Polo are a different class, wont see many being traded in to Dacia

colm_mcm

They’re all in the same segment, regardless of price. They’re all superminis, obviously not the same level of refinement, infotainment or whatever yardstick you can use to justify paying an extra 70% for a shopping car.

RandomViewer

colm_mcm wrote: »

They’re all in the same segment, regardless of price. They’re all superminis, obviously not the same level of refinement, infotainment or whatever yardstick you can use to justify paying an extra 70% for a shopping car.

You'll end up paying that 70% one way or another, Yugo45 would have been a world beater if new price is all that mattered

JPup

The way I think about Dacia is that you are shopping a new one against a 3/4 year old Toyota or VW. The quality on the main marks would probably be better even then, but you won't have the new car warranty etc.

colm_mcm

RandomViewer wrote: »

You'll end up paying that 70% one way or another, Yugo45 would have been a world beater if new price is all that mattered

I’m not saying price is all that matters, I am saying that the Sandero and Yaris/Polo/whatever are in the same segment but at different ends of the scale price wise.

Not sure what you mean about paying the 70% one way or another.

RandomViewer

colm_mcm wrote: »

I’m not saying price is all that matters, I am saying that the Sandero and Yaris/Polo/whatever are in the same segment but at different ends of the scale price wise.

Not sure what you mean about paying the 70% one way or another.

Polo/Yaris hold their money Dacia won't pay now or pay on trade in

colm_mcm

Look up used Sandero prices relative to new and then come back to me.

They have massive resale value relative to new price.

coolbeans

colm_mcm wrote: »

Look up used Sandero prices relative to new and then come back to me.

They have massive resale value relative to new price.

Does anything hold its value better than a Dacia at the moment? They seem a decent if modest machine.

colm_mcm

coolbeans wrote: »

Does anything hold its value better than a Dacia at the moment? They seem a decent if modest machine.

Suzuki Jimny maybe!
The late 90s Octavia’s used to hold silly resale from huge numbers of people looking to buy used ones cheap. It’s kinda reverse psychology, “buying a new car is too flash, I’ll spend the guts of it on a 2 year old one.”

RandomViewer

colm_mcm wrote: »

Look up used Sandero prices relative to new and then come back to me.

They have massive resale value relative to new price.

Mostly Stepway on DD, mad money for what youre
getting, here was me thinking€1500 for a 14/15

GeneHunt

Peugeot launches a new logo




https://www.peugeot.ie/

https://www.motor1.com/news/490586/peugeot-new-brand-logo/

GeneHunt

Looks like the days of the UK built Astra are numbered.



https://news.sky.com/story/vauxhall-plant-future-in-the-balance-as-government-guarantee-sought-12228829

GeneHunt

Stellantis confirmed that Peugeot's return to America is off the table, they want to focus on growing Alfa Romeo's brand in America first.


https://www.motor1.com/news/493049/peugeot-not-coming-america/

AMKC

GeneHunt wrote: »

Peugeot launches a new logo




https://www.peugeot.ie/

https://www.motor1.com/news/490586/peugeot-new-brand-logo/

It's an offel dull new Logo. Much prefer the Chrome Lion Logo.

Anyone remember the Chrysler Neon?

RandomViewer

AMKC wrote: »

It's an offel dull new Logo. Much prefer the Chrome Lion Logo.

Anyone remember the Chrysler Neon?

https://images.app.goo.gl/JDGG1msq7sVyJ5Ge8

Thats my favourite Peugeot emblem

Larbre34

It looks like a sports franchise logo, a French rugby club or something. Poor.